Developer Q&A - Grand Arena Championship Changes - 12/02

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    Look! 2 early posters that don't understand the new system. How many more will follow?

    I’m just waiting for the “I love gac and now I’ll make more crystals” crowd to understand the changes. You’ll make more crystals no doubt. Not sure you’ll still love gac.
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    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Look! 2 early posters that don't understand the new system. How many more will follow?

    I’m just waiting for the “I love gac and now I’ll make more crystals” crowd to understand the changes. You’ll make more crystals no doubt. Not sure you’ll still love gac.

    What won't I like?
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    As expected
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    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Look! 2 early posters that don't understand the new system. How many more will follow?

    I’m just waiting for the “I love gac and now I’ll make more crystals” crowd to understand the changes. You’ll make more crystals no doubt. Not sure you’ll still love gac.

    What won't I like?

    Matchups that make your record trend towards 6-6. Obviously those in the upper end of kyber can escape this but it’ll be the same matches over and over. Those should be entertaining but those below will bounce between matchups they can’t win, can’t lose with a mix of fair matches sprinkled in. I’m not including you in this next statement btw. There will be a group of players who enjoyed gac because their streamlined rosters allowed them to win significantly more than they lost. Some naturally will not enjoy losing more cause they’ve risen to a level their rosters no longer dominate the opponents.
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    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Look! 2 early posters that don't understand the new system. How many more will follow?

    I’m just waiting for the “I love gac and now I’ll make more crystals” crowd to understand the changes. You’ll make more crystals no doubt. Not sure you’ll still love gac.

    What won't I like?

    Matchups that make your record trend towards 6-6. Obviously those in the upper end of kyber can escape this but it’ll be the same matches over and over. Those should be entertaining but those below will bounce between matchups they can’t win, can’t lose with a mix of fair matches sprinkled in. I’m not including you in this next statement btw. There will be a group of players who enjoyed gac because their streamlined rosters allowed them to win significantly more than they lost. Some naturally will not enjoy losing more cause they’ve risen to a level their rosters no longer dominate the opponents.

    Fair point. I know a guy who dropped his alt that he was only running to manipulate the old GAC MM algorithm.
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    I have 7.6 million GP and am in a group a 10.4 million GP player. Average in my group is about 8.5 million.

    For those of us facing this kind of deficit, it’s just a flat loss of crystals until the algorithm adjusts. Going from 500/day to this, for an undetermined amount of time, is incredibly frustrating.
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    Some people will have the worst match ups they have ever had. That is expected. The old system only counted the top toons that were expecting to be used in the match, depending on number of placements required. Top 80 was the old usual before the divisions were expanded. That gave a semblance of similarity in matchups. But as many experienced, not good.

    This one particular round of gac had seen everyone matched up purely by whole roster gp. If one player has 5M gp focused in a 100 toon roster, while another player has 5M gp spread across a 250 toon roster they would never have met in the old match making. But they could meet today.

    BUT from this point on the skill rating will be used. 5M in 100 person above will beat 5M in 250 person, they will get spread apart in skill rating and never encounter each other again.

    It will take a few seasons of GAC for everyone to move around in the ladder, but the end state is there will be much fairer matches coming.
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    Are there just no feats associated with GAC at all now? The November announcement said they would be changed but then didn't say to what. And the table doesn't seem to have a feats section at all.

    It results in a bit less of the GAC currency income is all, I guess. Less kyros is bad.
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    Some people will have the worst match ups they have ever had. That is expected. The old system only counted the top toons that were expecting to be used in the match, depending on number of placements required. Top 80 was the old usual before the divisions were expanded. That gave a semblance of similarity in matchups. But as many experienced, not good.

    Questions is should we accept it? Pure laziness is what the current beginning rounds are. And before someone spouts off on GP blah blah blah i know how it works. Just think the easiest, cheapest, route was taken for the beginning MM. For a company that grosses 100M a year, you'd think they could put in a little effort.

    But in the long run GAC becomes a meaningless event where you are 50/50 unless you are at the very top of the spectrum. Lazy game design.
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    Joebo720 wrote: »
    Some people will have the worst match ups they have ever had. That is expected. The old system only counted the top toons that were expecting to be used in the match, depending on number of placements required. Top 80 was the old usual before the divisions were expanded. That gave a semblance of similarity in matchups. But as many experienced, not good.

    Questions is should we accept it? Pure laziness is what the current beginning rounds are. And before someone spouts off on GP blah blah blah i know how it works. Just think the easiest, cheapest, route was taken for the beginning MM. For a company that grosses 100M a year, you'd think they could put in a little effort.

    But in the long run GAC becomes a meaningless event where you are 50/50 unless you are at the very top of the spectrum. Lazy game design.
    Its a 100% fair system where you Climb when you win and go down when you lose. Way better than before.
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    Not debating fair or unfair. But after a couple rounds EVERYONE settles into a 50/50 bracket where skill has nothing to do with anything. I'll climb a little then will face people with 4-5 GLs to my 3. That is not winnable. It's not fun. It's a predetermined outcome. Could have just matched people with the same number of GLs and gone from there. That would have been a way to allow "skill" into the equation.
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    Agreed. Some will benefit from the new system and some will not. But it’s hard to argue that it’s anything other than fair once everyone gets settled in the right division after the first month or two. Although everyone will tend to finish around .500, I think it will become a point of pride/bragging right to say that you made it to a certain division with lower GP than most who are there (in addition to the somewhat better rewards).
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    Joebo720 wrote: »
    But after a couple rounds EVERYONE settles into a 50/50 bracket where skill has nothing to do with anything.

    I actually think skills will play a large part if you want to stay in "the 50/50 bracket". Some of the rosters you get matched up against are going to be winnable - if every roster you run into starts becoming impossible, it just means you have moved up out of 50/50 and you are supposed to only move down. So you need your planning and combat skills to actually win those.

    And then there is roster development. You keep up or get pushed down by people unlocking new GLs. And that would require some resource management skills.
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    I actually think skills will play a large part if you want to stay in "the 50/50 bracket". Some of the rosters you get matched up against are going to be winnable - if every roster you run into starts becoming impossible, it just means you have moved up out of 50/50 and you are supposed to only move down. So you need your planning and combat skills to actually win those.

    It will be based on the amount of GLs you have. Not skill.

    People are really okay with playing a 50/50 game mode? Really?
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    Joebo720 wrote: »
    Not debating fair or unfair. But after a couple rounds EVERYONE settles into a 50/50 bracket where skill has nothing to do with anything. I'll climb a little then will face people with 4-5 GLs to my 3. That is not winnable. It's not fun. It's a predetermined outcome. Could have just matched people with the same number of GLs and gone from there. That would have been a way to allow "skill" into the equation.

    Then people who will build their roster with this in mind could unlock 0 GL and only go for non-GLs meta teams and their 0 GLs opponents that didn't choose this strategy and are gearing up prerequisites instead could complain about unfair matchmaking.

    Whatever MM you have, the system will have flaws. The current one has two major perks imo: 1) at some point, you should have more tough-but-fair matches than not and 2) it drives people to keep improving their roster even if it will lower the efficiency/GP ratio, because improving even a little is better than not improving at all, which was not true with the previous system. However there are two major flaws: 1) on the "fairness" side (depending on your definition of fairness): people can buy their way to a better roster, so buy their way to the top, and 2) it could be demoralizing to realize that it doesn't really matter how good you are tactically, if you're currently don't have a top end roster you'll be locked out of high score and won't be able to chain 12-0 as you could before.

    I only hope that there are enough players in the game so you won't face the same opponents from a limited pool once you find your "right place" in the ladder.
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    Joebo720 wrote: »
    I actually think skills will play a large part if you want to stay in "the 50/50 bracket". Some of the rosters you get matched up against are going to be winnable - if every roster you run into starts becoming impossible, it just means you have moved up out of 50/50 and you are supposed to only move down. So you need your planning and combat skills to actually win those.

    It will be based on the amount of GLs you have. Not skill.

    People are really okay with playing a 50/50 game mode? Really?

    It is inherently a 50/50 game mode. 50% of players lose every round. This will just end up with fairer matches for all.
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    Joebo720 wrote: »
    I actually think skills will play a large part if you want to stay in "the 50/50 bracket". Some of the rosters you get matched up against are going to be winnable - if every roster you run into starts becoming impossible, it just means you have moved up out of 50/50 and you are supposed to only move down. So you need your planning and combat skills to actually win those.

    It will be based on the amount of GLs you have. Not skill.

    People are really okay with playing a 50/50 game mode? Really?


    You Will get better reward as you improve and climb in rank. Thats the goal. And GL isnt everything.
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    So the more I think about it, CG you just turned GAC into one massive squad arena shard.

    Skill rating is bunk, you might as well call it roster meta rating. Once everything settles your going to have the same grouping you had in squad once you have a certain squad your guaranteed at least a certain ranking in SA and that is how’s groups will en in GAC

    Kyber reserved for 4-6 GL rosters
    Aurodium for 1-2 GL rosters
    Chromium for GAS and JKL relic’d rosters
    Bronzium for Revan And Padme relic’d rosters
    Carbonite for non relic’d rosters regardless of gp

    Your initial seeding should and could of been 1000% better!
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    So is there any real reason there's no granular skill points in kyber 1 to begin with?
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    Are we supposed to only earn 66 banners for vacant defensive slots?
  • Joebo720
    656 posts Member
    edited December 2021
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    Are we supposed to only earn 66 banners for vacant defensive slots?

    Banners really only matter for the match as they are no longer cumulative. It awards 1 point for each enemy defeated so a perfect score is 69 or 71 if you solo and end with full health and full protection. Being you didn't defeat anyone you don't get those points.

    But end of the day, it doesn't matter
    Post edited by Joebo720 on
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    Are we supposed to receive banners for a draw? I feel like you should get the 10 banners for the attack, no matter what, plus one for each enemy defeated? That happened when I had a loss, but I had a draw where I defeated two toons and didn’t lose one, but there was no banner pop-up at the end of the battle. Not sure if I actually got credit or not…
  • Starslayer
    2427 posts Member
    edited December 2021
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    Joebo720 wrote: »
    Are we supposed to only earn 66 banners for vacant defensive slots?

    Banners really only matter for the match as they are no longer cumulative. It awards 1 point for each enemy defeated so a perfect score is 69 or 71 if you solo and end with full health and full protection. Being you didn't defeat anyone you don't get those points.

    But end of the day, it doesn't matter

    It matters as it matters for the match, as you said. Only giving 66 opens the door for some weird counter-intuitive strat. Why put a bad team on D that will be undersized anyway where you can put nothing and settle for only a 66 banners defeat ?
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    Are we supposed to receive banners for a draw? I feel like you should get the 10 banners for the attack, no matter what, plus one for each enemy defeated? That happened when I had a loss, but I had a draw where I defeated two toons and didn’t lose one, but there was no banner pop-up at the end of the battle. Not sure if I actually got credit or not…

    You only get 10 banners on your first attack not each attack.
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    When we took on this challenge, our first steps were to reach out across EA to find experts in matchmaking and skill systems.

    Due to the sheer population of GAC, most of our in-house testing has come through simulations based upon live accounts. However, note that we will be watching GAC closely over the upcoming seasons to make sure that it is tuned properly. -Jay

    Since the matchmaking system will be based on "win/loss" ratio wouldn't that mean that there will be a possibility that players with less developed rosters will be matched against stronger opponents? Or there are also other factors in the new matchmaking system?

    Skill Rating Win and Loss is the sole determining factor in the matchmaker, and Players should stabilize in the League and Division where they have a 50:50 win rate.

    In the theoretical case where someone has a "terrible" roster for their current GP yes, this player may lose their opening matches in their initial League and Division. Skill Rating would then adjust them down to a more suitable league, where they can begin winning matches and earn Round Win and Event Win prizes.
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    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Are we supposed to receive banners for a draw? I feel like you should get the 10 banners for the attack, no matter what, plus one for each enemy defeated? That happened when I had a loss, but I had a draw where I defeated two toons and didn’t lose one, but there was no banner pop-up at the end of the battle. Not sure if I actually got credit or not…

    You only get 10 banners on your first attack not each attack.

    This was a first attack, and I killed two toons. Received the “DRAW Time Over” pop-up at the end of the battle but no pop up re: banners. No idea if I did actually earn the 12 banners I was due, tho, as I didn’t monitor my banner count before battle. Will keep an eye on this one next round I guess.
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    @CG_SBCrumb_MINI @CG_Doja_Fett_MINI

    What is the best way to report cheating because the in game method doesnt work.
    My opponent in Grand Arena just exploited something to clear me.
    With this only two relic teams of First Order and a G12 GAS led clone team on defense, he cleared out 3 relic Teams and a GL team, one shotting them with all sub G12 toons.
    With his top two fleets on Defense, the then cleared an Executor with a R9 Piett, with Sub g12 pilots with his remaining ships.
    No going to throw up his ally code here, but would like to be able to help someone look at this, you can review my Grand Arena Battles and see the story.
    I have all the pictures to support.
    Thanks
  • EternalThug91
    18 posts Member
    edited December 2021
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    Qgj already “not working as intended” 😂🤣🤣🤣 I want my omicrons back.

    @CG_SBCrumb_MINI
  • dantheman123
    67 posts Member
    edited December 2021
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    This creates a disincentive to spend resources to gear up the bottom end of my roster. With the new GAC now requiring more teams and therefore needing to stretch my roster further, why should I place my g9 phoenix or ewoks leaving me vulnerable to a 69 banner solo? I'm better off leaving it empty.

    This doesn't seem right.
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