This was a first attack, and I killed two toons. Received the “DRAW Time Over” pop-up at the end of the battle but no pop up re: banners. No idea if I did actually earn the 12 banners I was due, tho, as I didn’t monitor my banner count before battle. Will keep an eye on this one next round I guess.
If it was your first battle, your banner count before battle was 0. No need to keep track.
Ok so update on setting partial defenses after the first round of the new GA. Setting partial defenses is really strong for the right match-up.
So I intentionally set 1/2 fleets to see if my opponent would get points for partial defenses. My opponent either by accident or on purpose set 2/3 defenses in the top zone.
Start of the match, neither my opponent or I were awarded points for the empty defense. I go on offense and upon killing the other two teams, and not before, I was awarded 75 points for the empty team (if I calculated it correctly). My opponent never attacked and was never awarded points for the empty fleet.
This means if you have more GLs than your opponent it means you can set just your GLs in front and empty other slots, then 1 team behind. Since your opponent won't be able to kill the GLs they will never get points for the empty slots.
Q: How do you intend to make sure players still set GAC defense since you are removing banners from placing defense? Since banners are no longer earned from placing Defense, what measures will there be to penalize players who leave zones empty to increase their attack roster? What happens if no Defenses are set?
A: Players facing empty Defenses will receive full credit for Defense or Zone. Not setting a Defense is a pretty surefire way to lose and after a while you'll be dropping Leagues and Divisions which means worse and worse rewards. -Jay
Q: How does the banner per defeated enemy system work for fleets?
A: For Fleet, unsummoned reinforcements and unused reinforcement slot (due to low-star capital ships or otherwise) still grant the defeated enemy flag.
As an example, consider the following:
Defense Setup:
Capital Ship
- 6* Home One
Starter Ships
- Biggs X-Wing
- HMF
- Ghost
Reinforcements
- Phantom
- Wedge X-Wing
- <Unfilled Reinforcement>
- <Unavailable Reinforcement>
Scenario a)
If the Attacker joins the battle and loses outright without destroying any defending ships, they should receive 2 banners for the missing Reinforcements. 1 Banner for each unused slot (1 for low cap ship stars slot, 1 for the unfilled slot)
Scenario b)
If the Attacker kills all 3 Starter Ships before any Reinforcements are deployed, the Attacker should receive the full 7 Banners for Defeated Enemies.
(Also defeating a Capital Ship should not grant a Defeated Enemy Banner (e.g. Executor and Raddus))
-Jay
So what happens if they only deploy one fleet? It doesn't appear I got the banners for the missing fleet, is there a way to check this?
@CG_LucifersDaddyMINI Hey Apparently you are the guy to reach out to about cheating? Anyways you can reach back out? I have a very glaring example that just happened in the new Grand Arena Format.
The in game reporting doesn't ever elicit any comments or contact back so I am going to be a bit of a pain here.
1) Will defense still redeploy automatically in rounds following round 1 (copying what was set the first time) if we do nothing?
2) I get how league promotion will work (essentially top division of one league and bottom division of another swap places). But how does division promotion work? All we have so far is a vague graphic of bars and lines (shown below). Will everyone that passes the currently defined division thresholds get promoted to that division within their league after each "Event" (3 rounds)? Or only a certain % to maintain the division ratios? Will it be possible to jump multiple divisions at once, provided your skill rating goes up enough?
By the way, community dropped the ball by not covering these questions already.
This creates a disincentive to spend resources to gear up the bottom end of my roster. With the new GAC now requiring more teams and therefore needing to stretch my roster further, why should I place my g9 phoenix or ewoks leaving me vulnerable to a 69 banner solo? I'm better off leaving it empty.
This doesn't seem right.
Doesn’t seem right, are you saying that they only get 66 banners if you don’t set D because it expects they would have used a full team?
Wouldn’t it be 70 if you left if empty? They didn’t have to use any toons to clear technically.
1) Will defense still redeploy automatically in rounds following round 1 (copying what was set the first time) if we do nothing?
2) I get how league promotion will work (essentially top division of one league and bottom division of another swap places). But how does division promotion work? All we have so far is a vague graphic of bars and lines (shown below). Will everyone that passes the currently defined division thresholds get promoted to that division within their league after each "Event" (3 rounds)? Or only a certain % to maintain the division ratios? Will it be possible to jump multiple divisions at once, provided your skill rating goes up enough?
By the way, community dropped the ball by not covering these questions already.
It's just a guess but I think the 3-0 from the division below and the 0-3 will change place's so you can only move up or down one division at a time (per round). Over the 4 rounds it'll give you a chance to move to the top of division 1 in order to move to the next league if you are good enough.
I'm glad CG appears poised to correct the unfilled defenses scoring issue. But come on. There were dozens of posters during the Q&A who raised this concern. Sigh
I'm glad CG appears poised to correct the unfilled defenses scoring issue. But come on. There were dozens of posters during the Q&A who raised this concern. Sigh
I know CG is bad when it comes to testing…but this is so bad it makes you want to cry. They deserve all the criticism players throw at them.
How are the final prizes sorted in a grand arena pool when it ends with weird numbers of wins per player?
My alt is currently the only player in its pool with 2 wins, matched against someone with only 1 win. If I lose then we have 2 players at the top of the leaderboard with 2 wins.
Will one of us get first place, because someone has to?
Will we both get the 2nd-4th place prize, because that's what someone used to get for 2 wins?
If I win, I'll have 3 wins so I'll clearly get the 1st place prize, but the other guy in the final would end with only 1 win, so get 5th-7th place prize?
What if all 3 zero win players get a win, I win, then there will be 1 player on 3 wins and 7 players on 1 win. Do 7 players get 5th to 7th prize?
If multiple players end up with 0 wins do they all get 8th place prize? Assuming they did score 20 banners to get any rewards at all.
So weird with the option to have 2 people lose the same match now.
After every 3 match round all the skill ratings are re-ranked from high to low and then the division lines are drawn. From what I can gather its something like 10-20-40-20-10 breakdown (so top 10% of all skill rating in chromium are in chromium 1, etc). Then re-paired for round 2, rinse and repeat till the end of event when the Division 1 and Division 5 swap.
Skill rating is basically ELO from other games and shouldn't change a LOT if you are paired against the same ELO people as it APPEARS they want which will make rank changes slower than we probably want I believe. I haven't been tracking skill rating change between wins unfortunately.
1) Will defense still redeploy automatically in rounds following round 1 (copying what was set the first time) if we do nothing?
2) I get how league promotion will work (essentially top division of one league and bottom division of another swap places). But how does division promotion work? All we have so far is a vague graphic of bars and lines (shown below). Will everyone that passes the currently defined division thresholds get promoted to that division within their league after each "Event" (3 rounds)? Or only a certain % to maintain the division ratios? Will it be possible to jump multiple divisions at once, provided your skill rating goes up enough?
By the way, community dropped the ball by not covering these questions already.
So from my tracking of skill rating changes so far in kyber 1, match 1 was worth +- 42 and match 2 +-41. This would suggest the 2-0 fight and the 0-2 fight will be worth +-40 and the 2 1-1 fights +-42.
I’m guessing they just simply made ranges of the skill rating to determine the value of a match. Given that they are planning to group us by similar skill rating, this would suggest that even if they had a modifier for defeating a “ “tougher” opponent it won’t have much effect on skill rating because we should be fairly bunched together each week.
I’m kinda disappointed they won’t detail how the skill rating system works. I know the excuse is that people will just game the system, but so??? The reward structure already shows enough information to let you know that tanking a little bit to end up in a division lower than the division you’d typically end 6-6 in is a viable option for maximizing your seasonal crystal income.
The reward structure already shows enough information to let you know that tanking a little bit to end up in a division lower than the division you’d typically end 6-6 in is a viable option for maximizing your seasonal crystal income.
How losing on purpose on a regular basis to maximise your chances of winning in a division with lower rewards would be a viable option ? I didn’t do the math, care to expand ?
It feels like they've made the cost of losing a match hurt way too much in the kyber league. About 500 crystals it costs you per loss, plus the less crystals you get from your end of event prize. It's making these sorting rounds hurt quite a bit for at least 1/2 of players. It is certainly making that 500 crystal grant they did look inadequate.
It is certainly increasing my anxiety about messing up attacks, and needing to attack first due to my time zone is hurting my results. My main account is 0 for 2, where I think I could have at least won one of them if I'd seen the opponents result first. But here I go to attack first again because I have no choice.
The reward structure already shows enough information to let you know that tanking a little bit to end up in a division lower than the division you’d typically end 6-6 in is a viable option for maximizing your seasonal crystal income.
How losing on purpose on a regular basis to maximise your chances of winning in a division with lower rewards would be a viable option ? I didn’t do the math, care to expand ?
I doubt anyone claiming this has done any math, at least none that I've seen yet.
The closest I saw to math justifying this claim had some errant assumptions about MM.
When will the changes go into effect for Squad Arena vs Grand Arena - the daily averages that you give are across a whole season, however if you turn off SA at the outset then we lose the rewards immediately, and won't get them back until end of the GAC season.
Players will receive a Skill Rating, League and Division the first time they log in after they reach level 85. Once they have this League and Division, they will start getting Daily Rewards, even if a Grand Arena is not currently active. -Jay
What happens if I don't join / Can I just not join and get the daily reward forever?
If you don't join a GAC Event, your skill rating will drop as if you took 2 losses against an equal opponent. Effectively, this gives 1 round of loss forgiveness eg 2 instead of 3, but ensures that Players who don't participate are moving down in rankings.
This penalty is adjustable, so we'll be watching for irregularity and adjusting. But TLDR if you regularly miss Events, you will be demoted.
8-4 in kyber 2 earns more crystals than 6-6 in kyber 1. Don’t have time to explain firther
You won't stay in Kyber 2 if you keep going 8-4
I think the idea is to throw a match or two in d1, so that you can regularly go 8-4 i d2.
However, I'd like to actually see the math with that factored in. Since one alternative should be going 6-6 constantly in d1 vs. going 8-4 in d2 + going what, 2-10 in d1 to ensure you can drop back to d2.
I think quite a bit would depend on what score you need to drop a division, since you would be loosing out on a bunch of crystals by throwing enough matches to drop.
The intentional losses to stay in the lower division need to be factored in, and I don't know how many losses you have to take, or how often, to stay in a division.
Maybe if you enter any kyber division you would be better off with only 2 wins per round for a long as possible? The difference between first and second at the end of a round is not much. Once we have a bit more info we'll be able to see if there is any benefit to taking losses on purpose.
8-4 in kyber 2 earns more crystals than 6-6 in kyber 1. Don’t have time to explain firther
You won't stay in Kyber 2 if you keep going 8-4
I think the idea is to throw a match or two in d1, so that you can regularly go 8-4 i d2.
However, I'd like to actually see the math with that factored in. Since one alternative should be going 6-6 constantly in d1 vs. going 8-4 in d2 + going what, 2-10 in d1 to ensure you can drop back to d2.
I think quite a bit would depend on what score you need to drop a division, since you would be loosing out on a bunch of crystals by throwing enough matches to drop.
This claim just seems ridiculous.
Let's say you alternate 3-0 in K2 and 0-3 in K1. You would get 260*7 + 200*3 + 100 = 2,520 for a 0-3 week in K1. And you get 240*7 + 825*3 + 750 = 4,905 for a 3-0 week in K2. That means 7,425 for 2 weeks.
Now, lest's say you go 2-1 and then 1-2, both in K1. You would get 260*14 + 900*3 + 200*3 + 500 + 250 = 7,690 for 2 weeks. That's more!
Staying K1 is better than alternating 3-0 in K2 and 0-3 in K1, and that assumes you only drop to K2 after your 0-3 week in K1.
Let's try one more. Say you alternate 2-1 in K2 and 1-2 in K1.
K2 = 240*7 + 825*2 + 200*1 + 500 = 4,030
K1 = 260*7 + 900*1 + 200*2 + 250 = 3,370
2-week total = 7,400
Worst case thus far.
I'm all for someone proving their point. But I've yet to see a concrete scenario where sandbagging could be beneficial to crystal income. I will gladly recant when a feasible one is presented.
This was a first attack, and I killed two toons. Received the “DRAW Time Over” pop-up at the end of the battle but no pop up re: banners. No idea if I did actually earn the 12 banners I was due, tho, as I didn’t monitor my banner count before battle. Will keep an eye on this one next round I guess.
If it was your first battle, your banner count before battle was 0. No need to keep track.
Ah, okay - I clearly misunderstood the "10 banners" part, and now see that this is only earned for your first battle of the round. My bad.
HOWEVER - you do get 1 banner for each enemy defeated, even in a loss. I have confirmed this works both for a loss and for a draw. The oddity is that when you lose a battle, you receive a pop-up at the end of the battle that explains the banners you have earned. When you draw, though, you just receive a pop-up that says "DRAW! Time Over!" and has no mention of banners earned. I did run a battle to a draw where I defeated two toons, and my total banners did increase by 2, so the scoring works - but you do not receive a pop-up.
Don't worry I'm sure CG tested all these scenarios first.
For once, I actually believe they've "tested" this in the sense that I think they've run the math to ensure that the sandbagging scenario is unlikely to yield more crystals.
Especially since this is a question of running calculations, not of actually testing things in practice with test accounts.
But same as what Ragnarok is saying, I'd be happy to see the scenarios where sandbagging is a win.
Could be those scenarios exist further down the ladder, as CG usually only test the top
Replies
If it was your first battle, your banner count before battle was 0. No need to keep track.
So I intentionally set 1/2 fleets to see if my opponent would get points for partial defenses. My opponent either by accident or on purpose set 2/3 defenses in the top zone.
Start of the match, neither my opponent or I were awarded points for the empty defense. I go on offense and upon killing the other two teams, and not before, I was awarded 75 points for the empty team (if I calculated it correctly). My opponent never attacked and was never awarded points for the empty fleet.
This means if you have more GLs than your opponent it means you can set just your GLs in front and empty other slots, then 1 team behind. Since your opponent won't be able to kill the GLs they will never get points for the empty slots.
This seems really broken if you ask me.
Huge oversight in testing. Again.
Basically WAI, but no.
So what happens if they only deploy one fleet? It doesn't appear I got the banners for the missing fleet, is there a way to check this?
The in game reporting doesn't ever elicit any comments or contact back so I am going to be a bit of a pain here.
Thanks
You don't get the points unless you clear the other fleet.
1) Will defense still redeploy automatically in rounds following round 1 (copying what was set the first time) if we do nothing?
2) I get how league promotion will work (essentially top division of one league and bottom division of another swap places). But how does division promotion work? All we have so far is a vague graphic of bars and lines (shown below). Will everyone that passes the currently defined division thresholds get promoted to that division within their league after each "Event" (3 rounds)? Or only a certain % to maintain the division ratios? Will it be possible to jump multiple divisions at once, provided your skill rating goes up enough?
By the way, community dropped the ball by not covering these questions already.
Doesn’t seem right, are you saying that they only get 66 banners if you don’t set D because it expects they would have used a full team?
Wouldn’t it be 70 if you left if empty? They didn’t have to use any toons to clear technically.
It's just a guess but I think the 3-0 from the division below and the 0-3 will change place's so you can only move up or down one division at a time (per round). Over the 4 rounds it'll give you a chance to move to the top of division 1 in order to move to the next league if you are good enough.
I know CG is bad when it comes to testing…but this is so bad it makes you want to cry. They deserve all the criticism players throw at them.
My alt is currently the only player in its pool with 2 wins, matched against someone with only 1 win. If I lose then we have 2 players at the top of the leaderboard with 2 wins.
Will one of us get first place, because someone has to?
Will we both get the 2nd-4th place prize, because that's what someone used to get for 2 wins?
If I win, I'll have 3 wins so I'll clearly get the 1st place prize, but the other guy in the final would end with only 1 win, so get 5th-7th place prize?
What if all 3 zero win players get a win, I win, then there will be 1 player on 3 wins and 7 players on 1 win. Do 7 players get 5th to 7th prize?
If multiple players end up with 0 wins do they all get 8th place prize? Assuming they did score 20 banners to get any rewards at all.
So weird with the option to have 2 people lose the same match now.
Skill rating is basically ELO from other games and shouldn't change a LOT if you are paired against the same ELO people as it APPEARS they want which will make rank changes slower than we probably want I believe. I haven't been tracking skill rating change between wins unfortunately.
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I’m guessing they just simply made ranges of the skill rating to determine the value of a match. Given that they are planning to group us by similar skill rating, this would suggest that even if they had a modifier for defeating a “ “tougher” opponent it won’t have much effect on skill rating because we should be fairly bunched together each week.
I’m kinda disappointed they won’t detail how the skill rating system works. I know the excuse is that people will just game the system, but so??? The reward structure already shows enough information to let you know that tanking a little bit to end up in a division lower than the division you’d typically end 6-6 in is a viable option for maximizing your seasonal crystal income.
How losing on purpose on a regular basis to maximise your chances of winning in a division with lower rewards would be a viable option ? I didn’t do the math, care to expand ?
It is certainly increasing my anxiety about messing up attacks, and needing to attack first due to my time zone is hurting my results. My main account is 0 for 2, where I think I could have at least won one of them if I'd seen the opponents result first. But here I go to attack first again because I have no choice.
But it helps if you divide everything with the 35 day duration.
In kyber 2 one loss costs 825-200 = 625
And end of round bonus is -250
875 / 35 = 25
So average loss is 25 / day. That doesnt sound as bad, does it?
I doubt anyone claiming this has done any math, at least none that I've seen yet.
The closest I saw to math justifying this claim had some errant assumptions about MM.
You won't stay in Kyber 2 if you keep going 8-4
Players will receive a Skill Rating, League and Division the first time they log in after they reach level 85. Once they have this League and Division, they will start getting Daily Rewards, even if a Grand Arena is not currently active. -Jay
What happens if I don't join / Can I just not join and get the daily reward forever?
If you don't join a GAC Event, your skill rating will drop as if you took 2 losses against an equal opponent. Effectively, this gives 1 round of loss forgiveness eg 2 instead of 3, but ensures that Players who don't participate are moving down in rankings.
This penalty is adjustable, so we'll be watching for irregularity and adjusting. But TLDR if you regularly miss Events, you will be demoted.
I think the idea is to throw a match or two in d1, so that you can regularly go 8-4 i d2.
However, I'd like to actually see the math with that factored in. Since one alternative should be going 6-6 constantly in d1 vs. going 8-4 in d2 + going what, 2-10 in d1 to ensure you can drop back to d2.
I think quite a bit would depend on what score you need to drop a division, since you would be loosing out on a bunch of crystals by throwing enough matches to drop.
Maybe if you enter any kyber division you would be better off with only 2 wins per round for a long as possible? The difference between first and second at the end of a round is not much. Once we have a bit more info we'll be able to see if there is any benefit to taking losses on purpose.
This claim just seems ridiculous.
Let's say you alternate 3-0 in K2 and 0-3 in K1. You would get 260*7 + 200*3 + 100 = 2,520 for a 0-3 week in K1. And you get 240*7 + 825*3 + 750 = 4,905 for a 3-0 week in K2. That means 7,425 for 2 weeks.
Now, lest's say you go 2-1 and then 1-2, both in K1. You would get 260*14 + 900*3 + 200*3 + 500 + 250 = 7,690 for 2 weeks. That's more!
Staying K1 is better than alternating 3-0 in K2 and 0-3 in K1, and that assumes you only drop to K2 after your 0-3 week in K1.
Let's try one more. Say you alternate 2-1 in K2 and 1-2 in K1.
K2 = 240*7 + 825*2 + 200*1 + 500 = 4,030
K1 = 260*7 + 900*1 + 200*2 + 250 = 3,370
2-week total = 7,400
Worst case thus far.
I'm all for someone proving their point. But I've yet to see a concrete scenario where sandbagging could be beneficial to crystal income. I will gladly recant when a feasible one is presented.
Ah, okay - I clearly misunderstood the "10 banners" part, and now see that this is only earned for your first battle of the round. My bad.
HOWEVER - you do get 1 banner for each enemy defeated, even in a loss. I have confirmed this works both for a loss and for a draw. The oddity is that when you lose a battle, you receive a pop-up at the end of the battle that explains the banners you have earned. When you draw, though, you just receive a pop-up that says "DRAW! Time Over!" and has no mention of banners earned. I did run a battle to a draw where I defeated two toons, and my total banners did increase by 2, so the scoring works - but you do not receive a pop-up.
For once, I actually believe they've "tested" this in the sense that I think they've run the math to ensure that the sandbagging scenario is unlikely to yield more crystals.
Especially since this is a question of running calculations, not of actually testing things in practice with test accounts.
But same as what Ragnarok is saying, I'd be happy to see the scenarios where sandbagging is a win.
Could be those scenarios exist further down the ladder, as CG usually only test the top