Developer Q&A - Grand Arena Championship Changes - 12/02

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    If we start to get daily crystals tomorrow, the league lock should be tomorrow as well, right?
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    If we start to get daily crystals tomorrow, the league lock should be tomorrow as well, right?

    Well it will have to determine the daily crystals, yes....but if your GP grows in the next 5 days before GAC actually starts, will it then move you up based on that? That's the question, as historically GAC lock in was 1 days before join lock date.
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    Fair would be lock tomorrow and again on gac join, but who knows.
    HeII, we might not even get the dailies starting tomorrow. That would be fun.
  • Ragnarok_COTF
    1800 posts Member
    edited December 2021
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    Kyno wrote: »
    About hiding scores with regard to the going first/second advantage:

    They see no statistical advantage in the data around this situation. They will keep an eye on things, but have no plans on making changes to this.

    How can they? The old MM was such a mess, I am not surprised that it would drown out the noise of first/second. Unless they controlled for such issues, but that seems like a lot more work than they'd be willing to do to justify doing nothing. Now, with the new MM, the advantage will be baked into the skill rating.

    Once again, their answer (relayed through an unpaid messenger; pay Kyno or do your own work, CG), has very dubious justification. What reason do they have to keep it? Best I can tell, almost half think it doesn't matter, almost half want it hidden, and the remaining don't care.
  • TVF
    36672 posts Member
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    Kyno wrote: »
    About hiding scores with regard to the going first/second advantage:

    They see no statistical advantage in the data around this situation. They will keep an eye on things, but have no plans on making changes to this.

    How can they? The old MM was such a mess, I am not surprised that it would drown out the noise of first/second. Unless they controlled for such issues, but that seems like a lot more work than they'd be willing to do to justify doing nothing. Now, with the new MM, the advantage will be baked into the skill rating.

    Once again, their answer (relayed through an unpaid messenger; pay Kyno or do your own work, CG), has very dubious justification. What reason do they have to keep it? Best I can tell, almost half think it doesn't matter, almost half want it hidden, and the remaining half don't care.

    giphy.gif
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
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    What I like to see most in a GAC match is players alternating. One player attacks a territory and then the other does and so it proceeds during the 24 hours. It doesn't happen often, but it is a more interesting experience that way and neither player has much of an advantage of going first or second since it is just one territory at a time.

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    nottenst wrote: »
    What I like to see most in a GAC match is players alternating. One player attacks a territory and then the other does and so it proceeds during the 24 hours. It doesn't happen often, but it is a more interesting experience that way and neither player has much of an advantage of going first or second since it is just one territory at a time.

    I have never had this happen.
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    Well it will have to determine the daily crystals, yes....but if your GP grows in the next 5 days before GAC actually starts, will it then move you up based on that? That's the question, as historically GAC lock in was 1 days before join lock date.

    My understanding is that the league/division placement happens tomorrow based on your GP at the point, but your roster won't get snapshotted until the first GA Event lock-in one week later.
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    One more thought on the "statistics" of going first vs second in GAC.

    When I had a garbage opponent, I would go early and get it over with because I have nothing to worry about.

    When I had a strong opponent, I would consider waiting, if I thought my schedule would allow it.

    So, for me, I'd wager I have a better win rate when attacking 1st. But I'm sure CG considered factors like this in their "analysis".
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    nottenst wrote: »
    What I like to see most in a GAC match is players alternating. One player attacks a territory and then the other does and so it proceeds during the 24 hours. It doesn't happen often, but it is a more interesting experience that way and neither player has much of an advantage of going first or second since it is just one territory at a time.

    I have never had this happen.

    Me either, closest I've had is watching my opponent attack and work out what banners they got. When I saw them drop a battle against my bounty hunters then I knew that I had the win
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    nottenst wrote: »
    What I like to see most in a GAC match is players alternating. One player attacks a territory and then the other does and so it proceeds during the 24 hours. It doesn't happen often, but it is a more interesting experience that way and neither player has much of an advantage of going first or second since it is just one territory at a time.

    I have never had this happen.

    Its a good strategy, kind of like a Feint.

    Essentially you go first and you bluff your opponent. Make it seem like your all tapped out but in reality keep like 2-3 good teams on the bench to try and trick your opponent.

    Sometimes you can catch your opponent off guard by making them think you are done, then they attack thinking you are done.

    Then in the last 5 minutes of GAC you clear 1-2 more teams or gain another territory and your opponent is like:

    ??????
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    nottenst wrote: »
    What I like to see most in a GAC match is players alternating. One player attacks a territory and then the other does and so it proceeds during the 24 hours. It doesn't happen often, but it is a more interesting experience that way and neither player has much of an advantage of going first or second since it is just one territory at a time.

    I have never had this happen.

    Its a good strategy, kind of like a Feint.

    Essentially you go first and you bluff your opponent. Make it seem like your all tapped out but in reality keep like 2-3 good teams on the bench to try and trick your opponent.

    Sometimes you can catch your opponent off guard by making them think you are done, then they attack thinking you are done.

    Then in the last 5 minutes of GAC you clear 1-2 more teams or gain another territory and your opponent is like:

    ??????

    That seems like a tactic that would only be likely to trip up opponents that should be an easy win without the shenanigans.
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    I'll use that tactic sometimes....clear the ones I know I can, but then if I know I will have to take some risks I might wait it out under closer to the end of the round to see what they do. If they falter, I can play it safe and just clear a few teams using full strength, but if I need more banners I will have to take risks on undersizing more.
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    I have definitely on more than one occasion had to wait for my opponent to go first, and see if I needed a safe half clear or a full clear with a much riskier counter.
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    Requiring people to “join” shouldn’t be a thing. We didn’t have to “join” PVP arena so we shouldn’t need to “join” this version of it. If it’s the grand version it should be the best.
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    nottenst wrote: »
    What I like to see most in a GAC match is players alternating. One player attacks a territory and then the other does and so it proceeds during the 24 hours. It doesn't happen often, but it is a more interesting experience that way and neither player has much of an advantage of going first or second since it is just one territory at a time.

    I have never had this happen.

    Its a good strategy, kind of like a Feint.

    Essentially you go first and you bluff your opponent. Make it seem like your all tapped out but in reality keep like 2-3 good teams on the bench to try and trick your opponent.

    Sometimes you can catch your opponent off guard by making them think you are done, then they attack thinking you are done.

    Then in the last 5 minutes of GAC you clear 1-2 more teams or gain another territory and your opponent is like:

    ??????

    He wasn't saying that. He said he liked it when you each did one attack at a time.

    If an opponent stops without even attempting an attack on a team, it's pretty clearly a ruse. It's on you, if you continue as if they have failed. So it's a feint that will only work against someone you'll likely beat anyway.

    A few times I've loaded up to see my opponent mid attack. Once or twice I started attacking too. In those cases the opponent immediately stopped completely and waited for me to finish so they could see what they needed to do. So I'll never join in anymore. I'll wait and see for that advantage.

    If you go in and see your opponent has cleared the front south, you can be pretty certain they are a final hour attacker who just had some time so they wanted to see what's at the back. If you can't do a final hour attack yourself (because, life), you may as well get on with it, going for max banners.

    I can't belie they think they would be able to see this advantage in the statistics.

    It's a small advantage.
    Many opponents you can immediately see it's not needed, so attack at leisure.
    How could they possibly factor in who had no choice but to attack first? Do they know who has jobs/responsiblities at what time somehow?

    More information is always an advantage, but it is not always needed to win, and doesn't always result in a win.

    That doesn't change the fact that if both players were restricted to the same information there would definitely be zero advantage based on geography and life.
  • nottenst
    708 posts Member
    edited December 2021
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    Is the squad arena store going to get updated on the next refresh or was it already supposed to be updated?
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    21mcisjo8825.jpg
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    LOL
  • Mattysvk
    28 posts Member
    edited December 2021
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    This isn´t really a question but i honestly think that there should be one final skill rating adjustment just before new Grand Arena starts. It can happen a lot in a five days and in the old Grand Arena your starting division was calculated just before you hit join button. For example, i am regularly updating my roster and before this update i was just few GP from aurodium, where i should be now. This isn´t about me - it´s about cases like this and it should (at least theoretically) help with initial matchmaking a little.
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    the skill rating is the PG divided by 2000. no need to go and ask CG for matchmaking specialists 😂
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    I never post and I'm a leader of a guild, had to come back and ask after these changes. Is sandbagging your toons still going to mess with battle match ups? I never played grand arena due to the match ups. I always level my toons/gear for GP and play the game as intended but so many never level or gear toons so they can explain matchups. Did they solve this problem? (Serious question here, once again, I haven't been on this site in years but 6 year guild leader (laid back guild). Thanks for any input, much appreciated.
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    cwbbcbnk9zix.jpg
    Is this supposed to contain something?
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    I never post and I'm a leader of a guild, had to come back and ask after these changes. Is sandbagging your toons still going to mess with battle match ups? I never played grand arena due to the match ups. I always level my toons/gear for GP and play the game as intended but so many never level or gear toons so they can explain matchups. Did they solve this problem? (Serious question here, once again, I haven't been on this site in years but 6 year guild leader (laid back guild). Thanks for any input, much appreciated.

    Your gp has been used this one time to assign you an initial skill rating. From now on what your gp is does not matter ever again in GAC.

    If you win, your skill rating goes up. If you lose your skill rating goes down.

    The matchmaking now just grabs people from around the same skill rating. The end. That is all.

    If you decide you really want an r9 Tusken Shaman then that will only affect your skill rating if you use him to win, or try to use him and fail. It has a secondary effect on your skill rating in that if two players start at the exact same resources and you choose Tusken shaman to r9, and they choose GAS to r9, then they will likely get more wins from their resources.
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    ImTheJake wrote: »
    cwbbcbnk9zix.jpg
    Is this supposed to contain something?

    wish in one hand ...
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    I never post and I'm a leader of a guild, had to come back and ask after these changes. Is sandbagging your toons still going to mess with battle match ups? I never played grand arena due to the match ups. I always level my toons/gear for GP and play the game as intended but so many never level or gear toons so they can explain matchups. Did they solve this problem? (Serious question here, once again, I haven't been on this site in years but 6 year guild leader (laid back guild). Thanks for any input, much appreciated.

    Your gp has been used this one time to assign you an initial skill rating. From now on what your gp is does not matter ever again in GAC.

    If you win, your skill rating goes up. If you lose your skill rating goes down.

    The matchmaking now just grabs people from around the same skill rating. The end. That is all.

    If you decide you really want an r9 Tusken Shaman then that will only affect your skill rating if you use him to win, or try to use him and fail. It has a secondary effect on your skill rating in that if two players start at the exact same resources and you choose Tusken shaman to r9, and they choose GAS to r9, then they will likely get more wins from their resources.

    Awesome, thank you!
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    I spent a lot of time/money to get Lord Vader, including a CG bug that wiped my Relic 8 GAS in the process (I had to re-purchase the relic material cuz CG wouldn't give it back). Then, I realized that LV was soft, so I thought Maul would be the answer. Spent time and money getting Maul in Conquest, only to find out that even with Maul, LV is still soft. What is the deal? I now have 4 GLs, and about to a few shards short of SEE, but this money grab is ridiculous. It'd be better if there wasn't one completely dominant meta (JMK). Lame.
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    Wow...first GA in the new revamped model and my first opponent has 2 GL's, both R8 (to my zero GL's)...**** me.

    Yeah, nice changes...sure.
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    Congrats cg for the new matchmaking. Its as dumb as i expected.
    From the start i know i cant win 1st place cause i cant beat a slkr r8. neither the other 6 players.
    but
    YOu re gOnnA eARn MoRe CRySTaLs
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    Look! 2 early posters that don't understand the new system. How many more will follow?
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