I don't think so, but different people have different things in mind, when they talk about fun.
it can also work if u make every next level of relic ridiculously more powerful and much harder to obtain.
in current state.. well, I honestly believe, that such idea won't bring anything good.
r8 is substantially harder to obtain than r7, and r9 is even worse to attain than r8. So CG have already implemented that method
Questions
I'm walking through an unlock in my brain, and have written out the scenario below and questions that came to me: Level 1 to 2 - upgradeable but cannot be used? at Level 3 - at this point they become useable and LS or DS specific, for relic 3 toons and up? Level 4 to 5 - upgradeable, but do only stats from Levels 1-3 apply to relic 3 toons and up, or do relic 5 toons and up get the bonus immediately? at Level 6 - faction specific bonus unlocks. Do the level 4-5 upgrades now apply? Do they apply to only the unlocked faction, or the alignment, for relic 5 and up? Level 7 to 8 - upgradeable, but do only stats from Levels 1-6 apply? at Level 9 - toon specific bonus unlocks. Do bonuses from level 7-8 upgrades now apply? Do the level 7-8 upgrades apply only to the unlocked toon at 9, or the unlocked faction, or the alignment?
Is there a limit to how many datacrons from a set one person can have/apply?
Will I be able to see opponent datacron types/upgrades prior to attack phases?
A video showing these being upgraded and applied to a mixed relic level set of squads would probably be useful.
These are good question.
Furthermore:
Why the imbalance in the Set 1 and Set 2?
Set 1 applies to 6 LS toons and only 2 DS toons and they are only Inquisitorius.
At LS there are JMK and Rey, why not Lord Vader, SEE, SLKR or at least Darth Vader for DS?
Set 2 is solely for Light Side. I hope Set 3 will be solely for DS.
Still I think this imbalance is just impractical.
Will we get one Datac(r)on and get to put it on as many squads as we like?
Will we have to gather and upgrade multiple Datac(r)ons for each squad?
Then we need a whole lot of guaranteed materials but that ain't gonna happen, because here comes the money making aspect. 15+ squads needed for GAC/TW
Will exchanging the Datac(r)ons use them up or will it be a free (lowcost) action?
When will Datac(r)ons be locked in when it comes to GAC/TW?
Literally, if it takes a wall of text to explain, its too complicated.
Corporate world view here.... Wall of text... Skip
Probably why no one reads Revans feedback
Oh yeah that’s why. Whether it’s my long feedback or short and sweet they still don’t read it. What’s their excuse for not reading short and sweet?
Ever hear of the story about the little boy who cried wolf?
How that is relevant in even the slightest I have no idea? If they read any feedback we’d have gotten a response to why they keep saying gear economy changes are coming but consistently it’s left out of RA’s, SotG’s and even have reps at Star Wars conventions saying it’s over and no more is coming?
I don’t hate the idea honestly. If relic 3 is the min to interact though…relic 3 needs to be way more obtainable. Launching this before QoL improvements and major gear economy updates was a serious misplay imo. What is the plan to make relic’ing a toon more obtainable?
I liked the idea of buffing non-meta toons, but in the case of us that have just a handful of characters at relic, I don't think it will be very useful and we'll end up hoping we get the Datacron for the single character we have. For example, if I have Ezra at G8, Datacron or no Datacron I won't be able to use him vs R3 - R5 opponents I'm facing in GAC.
Please consider making a player's datacron inventory part of their public profile. This will help all the sites and tools that need to know what datacrons a player has
This is going to make things very difficult for the hyper competitive guilds and players. In an unusual turn of events I feel bad for the top end guilds - attrition there will increase, I fear.
For me it means GAC counters are shuffled around. That's going to be frustrating - but at least it will be the same for everyone.
It's not that I think this is a bad concept, but I'm not sure why we're doing this without "softening the blow" with something... Anything... That looks like a QOL update. Surely you all (CG) had to know how this was going to be received?
I'm reserving final judgement until it's in the game, but I'll echo another posters sentiment and say I think this was a mis-play.
F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
I liked the idea of buffing non-meta toons, but in the case of us that have just a handful of characters at relic, I don't think it will be very useful and we'll end up hoping we get the Datacron for the single character we have. For example, if I have Ezra at G8, Datacron or no Datacron I won't be able to use him vs R3 - R5 opponents I'm facing in GAC.
On the bright side of that. In the long run maybe it'll help balance GAC so that you face opponents of a similar ability.
My only concern when the leak happened was using existing materials to level these, so I'm happy they have their own currencies/mats.
The Relic requirements are okay too, but I'm not going to relic my unused units just to use them with Datacrons, when I have already relicked units that I am using that will be that much stronger with Datacrons.
GAC was already plenty far from being stale this year because of the omicrons and new character releases. The meta was still shifting and evolving. Modding strategies were still being developed. Members of my guild that stream our GAC fights were actively discussing and revising modding and strategies various counters.
So, imo, datacrons are not needed to keep GAC from getting "stale". Let's be real, datacrons are just a new way for CG to monetize progression... by making it temporary and unstable.
I have some questions about datacrons that I think would have a big impact on how good or bad they will make GAC and TW.
1. How far in advance will the sets be announced? If there are going to be 3 sets active at any time, I feel that we need to know what sets will be available for the next 3 chapters in order to properly plan when rerolling our current datacrons. If I know the next 2 chapters of datacrons will not be as useful to my roster, it may change the resources that I am willing to use get good datacrons in the current chapter. I know it says that upgrade material is specific to a set, but surely it will take other resources (like using crystals to refresh conquest or just buying them outright) to be able to get more materials to upgrade the current set.
2. Related to #1, how many total sets will there be to have an idea of how often each set will be returning (I am assuming that there will be some rotation). If the first set (Treatise Inquisitorius) is in a rotation of 9 total datacron sets, then I would know that any investments I make into my Galactic Republic, Inquisitorious, or Resistance units will at least be beneficial for me again in the next 9 months. If there will be 40 sets, then why would I invest in a faction that will have the datacrons available for 3 months and then not get any use out of them again for a long time? This of course also depends on how long you decide is appropriate for each "Chapter" of datacrons. If chapters are never going to be the same sets, then all planning will go out the window. Along with having any idea of interactions between different datacron abilities.
2. It was stated that shortly after launch you will be enabling datacrons in squad arena. Is this a permanent change for squad arena or just to get used to datacrons? How are datacrons in squad arena going to help me determine how a datacron is going to affect my GAC battles when everybody around me in squad arena has the same GL squads? All I will be able to test is how my JMK with one of my datacrons does against other JMK squads (or maybe a JML or LV squad). I have no way at all to see how it could interact with a GAC omicron Ackbar/Leia team that has the datacron giving them Riposte when attacking out of turn. This changes seems to be a step in the right direction for having a testing area, but there needs to be a lot of work done in this area. With as complex as battles are getting needing to think about Kit interactions, Mods, Omicrons, and now Datacrons within each battle, how are you really supposed to know if a counter is going to work. We won't even be able to rely on previous matches or SWGOH.gg history because it will all depend on what datacrons you have or are going up against. A playground area something people have been asking for a very long time and it is becomming more and more important.
3. Once we get into the chapter 3 of datacrons, how many datacrons will the average roster have available? It seems like somebody could farm a lot of datacrons from conquest in order to have a big advantage come time for GAC. Do you expect everybody to have enough datacrons for one to be used for each squad in a GAC round with a casual approach to farming them?
Finally, I do think datacrons have the potential to really make GAC and TW more interesting to play. It seems to me like these won't have a big impact on farming for character shards or gear, which is a good thing.
I know there are a lot of negative comments in this thread, but I really think most of the negative comments are due to the fact that there are other things that could be broght to the game that would be more beneficial for players. If datacrons would have been announced WITH the phase 2 gear economy changes (and phase 1 would have actually been finished by now), there were Squadrons for ships, some mod management improvements, or some combination of those improvments then datacrons would have been more positively received. However, with it being the ONLY new feature announced, it seems like the datacron development work is taking away from the possibility of adding those much requested features. We know there is only so much that can be done, but the features released don't seem to align with what the playerbase has been asking for (or what CG has previously said was coming with regards to the gear economy). Can some time be devoted to the most requested improvements rather than these new features? If there are reasons why certain things aren't going to happen (like gear economy changes), put that information out there.
I think a pilot or test run would have been a good idea.
If only they announced an exhibition phase....
Doesn't that just mean we're the beta testers? Do the results of the GACs or TWs during the exhibition phase not count?
No
It means CG wants your opinion on what went right and wrong with datacrons and wants to give a trial period on how it works, and whats it like
But do you really think they want the feedback and isn't a complete lie? With the leak it was evident the reaction and what people think about. People wrote feedback a lot of time about a lot of things, but nothing it's applied. As example the lot of feedback about the bugs on JMK event battles, and up to date, seems like the feedback it's fully ignored and nothing get fixed.
I think a pilot or test run would have been a good idea.
If only they announced an exhibition phase....
Doesn't that just mean we're the beta testers? Do the results of the GACs or TWs during the exhibition phase not count?
No
It means CG wants your opinion on what went right and wrong with datacrons and wants to give a trial period on how it works, and whats it like
But do you really think they want the feedback and isn't a complete lie? With the leak it was evident the reaction and what people think about. People wrote feedback a lot of time about a lot of things, but nothing it's applied. As example the lot of feedback about the bugs on JMK event battles, and up to date, seems like the feedback it's fully ignored and nothing get fixed.
How do you know if feedback isn't applied?
We are only seeing the final product, the initial leaked version showed the materials required relic salvage, but they were looking for feedback from beta people, so it seems they listened, and they changed the relic requirements for getting bonuses too
Bug defects aren't feedback though
I know when it came to conquest some feedback was implemented, but in exchange they made some things worse (less feats in exchange for more nodes aka grind)
They listened to our feedback about Pit raid and removed the whole "post damage at same time" but buffed the raid bosses after certain % of the run
They listen to feedback but compensate somehow so you might think they don't listen
That said, the game is less and less about playing I don't really care about GAC or TW much anymore. I play because I really enjoy the KAM mission specifically and to a lesser extent the TBs.
I think a pilot or test run would have been a good idea.
If only they announced an exhibition phase....
Doesn't that just mean we're the beta testers? Do the results of the GACs or TWs during the exhibition phase not count?
No
It means CG wants your opinion on what went right and wrong with datacrons and wants to give a trial period on how it works, and whats it like
But do you really think they want the feedback and isn't a complete lie? With the leak it was evident the reaction and what people think about. People wrote feedback a lot of time about a lot of things, but nothing it's applied. As example the lot of feedback about the bugs on JMK event battles, and up to date, seems like the feedback it's fully ignored and nothing get fixed.
How do you know if feedback isn't applied?
We are only seeing the final product, the initial leaked version showed the materials required relic salvage, but they were looking for feedback from beta people, so it seems they listened, and they changed the relic requirements for getting bonuses too
Bug defects aren't feedback though
I know when it came to conquest some feedback was implemented, but in exchange they made some things worse (less feats in exchange for more nodes aka grind)
They listened to our feedback about Pit raid and removed the whole "post damage at same time" but buffed the raid bosses after certain % of the run
They listen to feedback but compensate somehow so you might think they don't listen
That's not true.
They only get feedback to make things worse as on conquest and grind feats. (I wrote a repply already but edited and now cant find it)
Keeping as example a requeriment planned on secret and hide It almost since release and already revealing (despite the original requeriment told was keep) make people that read it to over invest resources to meet original requeriment (and who know, maybe even $$$).
And all the feedback provided since the surprise was revealed, what changed exactly that feedback??? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 if I don't remember wrong even not a single repply from the manager....
What changed the feedback of the bugged challenges on a row??? Up to date, where is the answer about?
And what changes When a bug is reported because it hurt players? But hey, if the bug help the player then it's instantly fixed.
CG it's doing a lot of wrong things and they are at the point of 0 credibility.
So, not a single QoL update, no gear economy phase 2, no new GL, no mod management, no sandbox mode. Just that new scam thing.
"We want to give you a chance to use a lower level character right when you get them" "Must be at least relic 1 to use datacrons". This is just hilarious.
So, here's my second post in here, with a separate question to my earlier one.
"Why is this PvP exclusive?"
Let's be real here.
Giving players more teams that can do more than 1-5% in Cpit wouldn't break the game.
Giving players datacrons that can help them clear stuff like the KAM mission wouldn't break the game.
Giving players interesting ways to approach conquest wouldn't break the game.
I would've been infinitely more interested in the system, and probably would've been fine with them being as obviously overtuned as they currently are, if they actually affected something other than modes where you're also interacting with opposing datacrons.
So... "Why PvP only?"
Had these applied to raids, TBs, etc. I would've been legitimately excited for them. I love raid theorycrafting because I can actually take into account longer-term effects, like multiple ultimates from JMK, or actually hitting the damage cap on stuff like Finn's special.
Teams actually being buffed for LS Geo would make it feel fun, instead of "overtuned".
It's these decisions to make things just based on specific arbitrary modes or subsets of gameplay that I just... don't understand.
I want to be able to enjoy announcements, content additions, new modes, new mechanics... but almost nothing is focused on parts of the game I actually have real interest in beyond basic interaction with it. I love theorycrafting, but pvp theorycrafting in this game is so absurdly boring and frustrating due to the sheer amount of variables you have to factor in due to lineup changes and mods that it's generally just not worth doing beyond figuring out consistent hard counters to stuff. Most of which are very obvious.
If these weren't pvp exclusive, I'd be pretty happy overall with the system. I'd still have balance concerns *cough*rey's ult damage increase*cough*, but I'd be happy to utilize those overtuned systems for stuff like Raids. But... they're exclusive to GAC and TW. Which just kills any real interest I have in them and highlights those balance concerns.
Replies
Here I’ll keep it short.
Datacrons are a bad thing. Where is the gear economy changes promised to us almost a year ago. Where’s the QOL fixes and UI updates sorely needed?
Still to long?
Give us gear economy fixes and QoL. DataCons suck.
Ever hear of the story about the little boy who cried wolf?
r8 is substantially harder to obtain than r7, and r9 is even worse to attain than r8. So CG have already implemented that method
These are good question.
Furthermore:
Why the imbalance in the Set 1 and Set 2?
Set 1 applies to 6 LS toons and only 2 DS toons and they are only Inquisitorius.
At LS there are JMK and Rey, why not Lord Vader, SEE, SLKR or at least Darth Vader for DS?
Set 2 is solely for Light Side. I hope Set 3 will be solely for DS.
Still I think this imbalance is just impractical.
Will we get one Datac(r)on and get to put it on as many squads as we like?
Will we have to gather and upgrade multiple Datac(r)ons for each squad?
Then we need a whole lot of guaranteed materials but that ain't gonna happen, because here comes the money making aspect. 15+ squads needed for GAC/TW
Will exchanging the Datac(r)ons use them up or will it be a free (lowcost) action?
When will Datac(r)ons be locked in when it comes to GAC/TW?
How that is relevant in even the slightest I have no idea? If they read any feedback we’d have gotten a response to why they keep saying gear economy changes are coming but consistently it’s left out of RA’s, SotG’s and even have reps at Star Wars conventions saying it’s over and no more is coming?
Liberty died when Solidus Snake tried to kill it by going against the patriots
For me it means GAC counters are shuffled around. That's going to be frustrating - but at least it will be the same for everyone.
It's not that I think this is a bad concept, but I'm not sure why we're doing this without "softening the blow" with something... Anything... That looks like a QOL update. Surely you all (CG) had to know how this was going to be received?
I'm reserving final judgement until it's in the game, but I'll echo another posters sentiment and say I think this was a mis-play.
Not for the Arena, Fleet Arena, TB, Raids, Assault Battles & etc.?
If that's the case, that's awesome news!
Since GAC & TW are my least favorite game modes, I don't need to care about the 'crons at all.
Thanks CG!
On the bright side of that. In the long run maybe it'll help balance GAC so that you face opponents of a similar ability.
It means CG wants your opinion on what went right and wrong with datacrons and wants to give a trial period on how it works, and whats it like
If history serves, they will be fairly well received, CG will get feedback as such, and then make them awful.
The Relic requirements are okay too, but I'm not going to relic my unused units just to use them with Datacrons, when I have already relicked units that I am using that will be that much stronger with Datacrons.
They will answer the questions from this thread in Q&A i believe
So, imo, datacrons are not needed to keep GAC from getting "stale". Let's be real, datacrons are just a new way for CG to monetize progression... by making it temporary and unstable.
1. How far in advance will the sets be announced? If there are going to be 3 sets active at any time, I feel that we need to know what sets will be available for the next 3 chapters in order to properly plan when rerolling our current datacrons. If I know the next 2 chapters of datacrons will not be as useful to my roster, it may change the resources that I am willing to use get good datacrons in the current chapter. I know it says that upgrade material is specific to a set, but surely it will take other resources (like using crystals to refresh conquest or just buying them outright) to be able to get more materials to upgrade the current set.
2. Related to #1, how many total sets will there be to have an idea of how often each set will be returning (I am assuming that there will be some rotation). If the first set (Treatise Inquisitorius) is in a rotation of 9 total datacron sets, then I would know that any investments I make into my Galactic Republic, Inquisitorious, or Resistance units will at least be beneficial for me again in the next 9 months. If there will be 40 sets, then why would I invest in a faction that will have the datacrons available for 3 months and then not get any use out of them again for a long time? This of course also depends on how long you decide is appropriate for each "Chapter" of datacrons. If chapters are never going to be the same sets, then all planning will go out the window. Along with having any idea of interactions between different datacron abilities.
2. It was stated that shortly after launch you will be enabling datacrons in squad arena. Is this a permanent change for squad arena or just to get used to datacrons? How are datacrons in squad arena going to help me determine how a datacron is going to affect my GAC battles when everybody around me in squad arena has the same GL squads? All I will be able to test is how my JMK with one of my datacrons does against other JMK squads (or maybe a JML or LV squad). I have no way at all to see how it could interact with a GAC omicron Ackbar/Leia team that has the datacron giving them Riposte when attacking out of turn. This changes seems to be a step in the right direction for having a testing area, but there needs to be a lot of work done in this area. With as complex as battles are getting needing to think about Kit interactions, Mods, Omicrons, and now Datacrons within each battle, how are you really supposed to know if a counter is going to work. We won't even be able to rely on previous matches or SWGOH.gg history because it will all depend on what datacrons you have or are going up against. A playground area something people have been asking for a very long time and it is becomming more and more important.
3. Once we get into the chapter 3 of datacrons, how many datacrons will the average roster have available? It seems like somebody could farm a lot of datacrons from conquest in order to have a big advantage come time for GAC. Do you expect everybody to have enough datacrons for one to be used for each squad in a GAC round with a casual approach to farming them?
Finally, I do think datacrons have the potential to really make GAC and TW more interesting to play. It seems to me like these won't have a big impact on farming for character shards or gear, which is a good thing.
I know there are a lot of negative comments in this thread, but I really think most of the negative comments are due to the fact that there are other things that could be broght to the game that would be more beneficial for players. If datacrons would have been announced WITH the phase 2 gear economy changes (and phase 1 would have actually been finished by now), there were Squadrons for ships, some mod management improvements, or some combination of those improvments then datacrons would have been more positively received. However, with it being the ONLY new feature announced, it seems like the datacron development work is taking away from the possibility of adding those much requested features. We know there is only so much that can be done, but the features released don't seem to align with what the playerbase has been asking for (or what CG has previously said was coming with regards to the gear economy). Can some time be devoted to the most requested improvements rather than these new features? If there are reasons why certain things aren't going to happen (like gear economy changes), put that information out there.
But do you really think they want the feedback and isn't a complete lie? With the leak it was evident the reaction and what people think about. People wrote feedback a lot of time about a lot of things, but nothing it's applied. As example the lot of feedback about the bugs on JMK event battles, and up to date, seems like the feedback it's fully ignored and nothing get fixed.
How do you know if feedback isn't applied?
We are only seeing the final product, the initial leaked version showed the materials required relic salvage, but they were looking for feedback from beta people, so it seems they listened, and they changed the relic requirements for getting bonuses too
Bug defects aren't feedback though
I know when it came to conquest some feedback was implemented, but in exchange they made some things worse (less feats in exchange for more nodes aka grind)
They listened to our feedback about Pit raid and removed the whole "post damage at same time" but buffed the raid bosses after certain % of the run
They listen to feedback but compensate somehow so you might think they don't listen
What?
Don’t really need GLs with SA losing crystals. With datacrons you can make anyone on par with one in GA.
And when is that? Also will that Q&A be only for DataCons or will there be actual questions answered regarding the tons of other issues with the game
It'll be a fake q&a that turns out to be another Mace rework and then they'll go into hiding again
That's not true.
They only get feedback to make things worse as on conquest and grind feats. (I wrote a repply already but edited and now cant find it)
Keeping as example a requeriment planned on secret and hide It almost since release and already revealing (despite the original requeriment told was keep) make people that read it to over invest resources to meet original requeriment (and who know, maybe even $$$).
And all the feedback provided since the surprise was revealed, what changed exactly that feedback??? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 if I don't remember wrong even not a single repply from the manager....
What changed the feedback of the bugged challenges on a row??? Up to date, where is the answer about?
And what changes When a bug is reported because it hurt players? But hey, if the bug help the player then it's instantly fixed.
CG it's doing a lot of wrong things and they are at the point of 0 credibility.
"We want to give you a chance to use a lower level character right when you get them" "Must be at least relic 1 to use datacrons". This is just hilarious.
Amazing job, CG.
"Why is this PvP exclusive?"
Let's be real here.
Giving players more teams that can do more than 1-5% in Cpit wouldn't break the game.
Giving players datacrons that can help them clear stuff like the KAM mission wouldn't break the game.
Giving players interesting ways to approach conquest wouldn't break the game.
I would've been infinitely more interested in the system, and probably would've been fine with them being as obviously overtuned as they currently are, if they actually affected something other than modes where you're also interacting with opposing datacrons.
So... "Why PvP only?"
Had these applied to raids, TBs, etc. I would've been legitimately excited for them. I love raid theorycrafting because I can actually take into account longer-term effects, like multiple ultimates from JMK, or actually hitting the damage cap on stuff like Finn's special.
Teams actually being buffed for LS Geo would make it feel fun, instead of "overtuned".
It's these decisions to make things just based on specific arbitrary modes or subsets of gameplay that I just... don't understand.
I want to be able to enjoy announcements, content additions, new modes, new mechanics... but almost nothing is focused on parts of the game I actually have real interest in beyond basic interaction with it. I love theorycrafting, but pvp theorycrafting in this game is so absurdly boring and frustrating due to the sheer amount of variables you have to factor in due to lineup changes and mods that it's generally just not worth doing beyond figuring out consistent hard counters to stuff. Most of which are very obvious.
If these weren't pvp exclusive, I'd be pretty happy overall with the system. I'd still have balance concerns *cough*rey's ult damage increase*cough*, but I'd be happy to utilize those overtuned systems for stuff like Raids. But... they're exclusive to GAC and TW. Which just kills any real interest I have in them and highlights those balance concerns.