Skill rating in gac matchmaking

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I am 6.4 mil player who has two gls. I work hard on my modding, strategy, researching my opponents. I have out played accounts with millions of gp more than me. 4-5 gls. To reach kyber 2. What awaits me a similar skill player?

No a bracket with opponents with all the gls, starkiller, malgus, Maul. More r9's R8s than I have r5-7. They could be worst player and yet still win because of their roster.

I do not mind losing due to the strategy or skill of my opponent but having no chance against an opponent that has me overpowered.



Replies

  • nottenst
    682 posts Member
    edited August 2022
    That unfortunately is why I went 0-3 last week and fell to Kyber 3. All three were against such rosters. My first match in Kyber 3 is against another such player. This player is in Kyber 3 at the moment because he basically ignores 3v3 GAC and then wins all his 5v5 matches. I don't know if that actually helps his crystal income or not, but it is a pain to face him on the way back up.
  • The entire system used to provide mostly fair roster-based matchmaking.

    Now they try to irritate you into spending.
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    The entire system used to provide mostly fair roster-based matchmaking.

    Untrue.

    I didn't win over 50 matches in a row under the old system because I'm amazing at GAC.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • The entire system used to provide mostly fair roster-based matchmaking.

    Now they try to irritate you into spending.

    If it was so "mostly fair" there wouldn't have been so many "my opponent got 3 GLs on my one" threads back in those days.
  • nottenst wrote: »
    That unfortunately is why I went 0-3 last week and fell to Kyber 3. All three were against such rosters. My first match in Kyber 3 is against another such player. This player is in Kyber 3 at the moment because he basically ignores 3v3 GAC and then wins all his 5v5 matches. I don't know if that actually helps his crystal income or not, but it is a pain to face him on the way back up.

    I'm W 1 X 8 L because of that. Probably I was something W 8 X 1 L before that happened. I simply hate facing such opponents, because no matter how good my strategy is they simply brute force their win.
    "You could warn me when I do something bad. Blink once for dark side, twice for light"
  • LordDirt
    4941 posts Member
    Sorry guys, I have all GLs and have 9.2 GP and have dropped to K2. I really dont try or care much about GA so you might run into me sometime.
    Why wasn't Cobb Vanth shards a reward for the Krayt Dragon raid? Why wasn't Endor Gear Luke shards a reward for the Speeder Bike raid?
  • The entire system used to provide mostly fair roster-based matchmaking.

    Now they try to irritate you into spending.

    If it was so "mostly fair" there wouldn't have been so many "my opponent got 3 GLs on my one" threads back in those days.

    Because the older player at that time didnt get to spend their 5m GP (example value) for 3 GL as they were not out back then.

    If the old system remained you would see basically every new player going for GLs/S Tier team.

  • I am 6.4 mil player who has two gls. I work hard on my modding, strategy, researching my opponents. I have out played accounts with millions of gp more than me. 4-5 gls. To reach kyber 2. What awaits me a similar skill player?

    No a bracket with opponents with all the gls, starkiller, malgus, Maul. More r9's R8s than I have r5-7. They could be worst player and yet still win because of their roster.

    I do not mind losing due to the strategy or skill of my opponent but having no chance against an opponent that has me overpowered.

    Underdog wins with inferior roster are very much possible in higher brackets. There are quite some players with only 5 GLs hanging out in Kyber 1. But those players either excel in modding, are very focused on efficiency play or/and have developed a unique roster to compensate for the GL disadvantage (e.g. risky off-meta counters or stronger fleet). They don't win all the time but enough to keep them in Kyber 1.

    6.4m with only 2 GLs definitely is a strong disadvantage. But being able to underdog stronger roster has a limit. Nobody says modding/strategy/scouting can fully compensate big holes in a roster. It's like you can be the grandmaster of Chess, but playing with less figures at your disposal, you are still likely to lose to less gifted players.

  • I_JnK_I wrote: »
    The entire system used to provide mostly fair roster-based matchmaking.

    Now they try to irritate you into spending.

    If it was so "mostly fair" there wouldn't have been so many "my opponent got 3 GLs on my one" threads back in those days.

    Because the older player at that time didnt get to spend their 5m GP (example value) for 3 GL as they were not out back then.

    If the old system remained you would see basically every new player going for GLs/S Tier team.

    All 6 GLs were out in the previous incarnation of GAC.

    The only real difference is they're becoming more and more common now.

    A. Players have had more the chance to farm them.

    B. Players now know you can't get around not having all of them. CG made sure of that just under a year ago.
  • Unfortunately matchmaking will never be perfect. Whether it's based on win/loss ratio or skill rating these mismatches will happen. People will game the system no matter what.

    5v5 is easier to win especially for those with good rosters and most GLs so they drop 3v3 battles to get even easier matches in 5v5.

    No matter what matches like these will be common but I still think the new format is better than the old system. I hover between k4 and k3 myself and I have been matched against players with 5 GLs vs my 3 quite a bit so understand the frustration

  • [/quote]

    Underdog wins with inferior roster are very much possible in higher brackets. There are quite some players with only 5 GLs hanging out in Kyber 1. But those players either excel in modding, are very focused on efficiency play or/and have developed a unique roster to compensate for the GL disadvantage (e.g. risky off-meta counters or stronger fleet). They don't win all the time but enough to keep them in Kyber 1.

    6.4m with only 2 GLs definitely is a strong disadvantage. But being able to underdog stronger roster has a limit. Nobody says modding/strategy/scouting can fully compensate big holes in a roster. It's like you can be the grandmaster of Chess, but playing with less figures at your disposal, you are still likely to lose to less gifted players.

    [/quote]

    What he said.


    Ive had only 5 GL's for awhile and hang out in Kyber 1. Low low end, but I manage to stay there. Im almost always fighting folks with 6 GL's and regularly win. Modding helps, but its mostly because they look at my defense on .gg and decide they would rather FC me than play it safe on defense. This gives me room for them to make mistakes and capitalize on that.
    Antario wrote: »
    I am 6.4 mil player who has two gls. I work hard on my modding, strategy, researching my opponents. I have out played accounts with millions of gp more than me. 4-5 gls. To reach kyber 2. What awaits me a similar skill player?

    No a bracket with opponents with all the gls, starkiller, malgus, Maul. More r9's R8s than I have r5-7. They could be worst player and yet still win because of their roster.

    I do not mind losing due to the strategy or skill of my opponent but having no chance against an opponent that has me overpowered.
  • wait so let me get this right.. you are complaining because you basically want to go 3-0 all the time.
    Did you forget to read the part where the scoring will/should balance out to the point where you have a 50/50 win/loss ration.

    So congrats you can beat people with a couple more GL's than you, and you managed to get yourself into a higher division, i wonder why you weren't on here **** about being up against players with a couple of million more GP than you.. oh right, because you beat them.. so no reason to complain.

    You managed to fight your way up into the whales/krakens divisions, here is a medal for you. What did you want.. them to pair you the same types of people you just beat so you can fly up to Kyber 1.

    If you want to be in Kyber 1 or 2, you have to earn the right to stay there.

    There are also Whales and Krakens that don't really care about GAC so they just maintain kyber 2, maybe you got slightly unlucky with your draw. But the moment you moved up another division it was bound to get a whole lot harder.

    Now where did i put my miniature violin

    but hey what do I know, I'm a whale, and I maintain in kyber 1.
  • wait so let me get this right.. you are complaining because you basically want to go 3-0 all the time.
    Did you forget to read the part where the scoring will/should balance out to the point where you have a 50/50 win/loss ration.

    So congrats you can beat people with a couple more GL's than you, and you managed to get yourself into a higher division, i wonder why you weren't on here **** about being up against players with a couple of million more GP than you.. oh right, because you beat them.. so no reason to complain.

    You managed to fight your way up into the whales/krakens divisions, here is a medal for you. What did you want.. them to pair you the same types of people you just beat so you can fly up to Kyber 1.

    If you want to be in Kyber 1 or 2, you have to earn the right to stay there.

    There are also Whales and Krakens that don't really care about GAC so they just maintain kyber 2, maybe you got slightly unlucky with your draw. But the moment you moved up another division it was bound to get a whole lot harder.

    Now where did i put my miniature violin

    but hey what do I know, I'm a whale, and I maintain in kyber 1.

    I understand what you're saying in principal but, based on commentary and my experience, it seems like way more players are punching up GP ranges but I somehow never see them. Maybe 1 out of 10 battles I fight someone within 1M GP of me and I can't recall fighting someone with less in a very very long time (4M). Most of my matches are vs 6-7M players and a good portion are actively playing because I lose 50% of the time and I have no issue with losing either.

    My issue is simply where are the other 4M GP players in Aurodium? I suppose I could be the greatest GAC player ever making me the lowest GP in the group by a million or more (I'll spare you the suspense, I'm not). Or more likely, matchmaking hiccups may be playing a part.
  • wait so let me get this right.. you are complaining because you basically want to go 3-0 all the time.
    Did you forget to read the part where the scoring will/should balance out to the point where you have a 50/50 win/loss ration.

    So congrats you can beat people with a couple more GL's than you, and you managed to get yourself into a higher division, i wonder why you weren't on here **** about being up against players with a couple of million more GP than you.. oh right, because you beat them.. so no reason to complain.

    You managed to fight your way up into the whales/krakens divisions, here is a medal for you. What did you want.. them to pair you the same types of people you just beat so you can fly up to Kyber 1.

    If you want to be in Kyber 1 or 2, you have to earn the right to stay there.

    There are also Whales and Krakens that don't really care about GAC so they just maintain kyber 2, maybe you got slightly unlucky with your draw. But the moment you moved up another division it was bound to get a whole lot harder.

    Now where did i put my miniature violin

    but hey what do I know, I'm a whale, and I maintain in kyber 1.

    I understand what you're saying in principal but, based on commentary and my experience, it seems like way more players are punching up GP ranges but I somehow never see them. ...

    Without seeing your history, I'm going to venture a guess that that is because you have been punching up yourself.
  • wait so let me get this right.. you are complaining because you basically want to go 3-0 all the time.
    Did you forget to read the part where the scoring will/should balance out to the point where you have a 50/50 win/loss ration.

    So congrats you can beat people with a couple more GL's than you, and you managed to get yourself into a higher division, i wonder why you weren't on here **** about being up against players with a couple of million more GP than you.. oh right, because you beat them.. so no reason to complain.

    You managed to fight your way up into the whales/krakens divisions, here is a medal for you. What did you want.. them to pair you the same types of people you just beat so you can fly up to Kyber 1.

    If you want to be in Kyber 1 or 2, you have to earn the right to stay there.

    There are also Whales and Krakens that don't really care about GAC so they just maintain kyber 2, maybe you got slightly unlucky with your draw. But the moment you moved up another division it was bound to get a whole lot harder.

    Now where did i put my miniature violin

    but hey what do I know, I'm a whale, and I maintain in kyber 1.

    I understand what you're saying in principal but, based on commentary and my experience, it seems like way more players are punching up GP ranges but I somehow never see them. Maybe 1 out of 10 battles I fight someone within 1M GP of me and I can't recall fighting someone with less in a very very long time (4M). Most of my matches are vs 6-7M players and a good portion are actively playing because I lose 50% of the time and I have no issue with losing either.

    My issue is simply where are the other 4M GP players in Aurodium? I suppose I could be the greatest GAC player ever making me the lowest GP in the group by a million or more (I'll spare you the suspense, I'm not). Or more likely, matchmaking hiccups may be playing a part.

    There is no match making. You have a rank, you play the players ranked around you. There is no match making algorithm

    You're definitely punching up. I started the new style GAC in Aurodium 3 and I'm currently 6.37 million.

    So the players that started in Aurodium are between 6-7 millionish now?

    So a 4 million player now in Aurodium 5 is significantly higher from where they started. 4 million accounts in mid-high Aurodium even more so. So yes, there should be some 4 million players in Aurodium, but not too many. I have seen some myself.

    A couple of other points.

    As pointed out in another thread Kyber has shrunk in size, where as other leagues have increased a bit. So Aurodium's difficulty has increased. From my experience this is the case.

    Also due to how the system works with squish and league changes. There's a lot of us caught in a whirlpool between low Kyber 3 and Aurodium 3. All my guild are a similar level and most of us are just perpetually being swirled around between K3 - A3.

    You climb your way up to K3-K4 where things get tough. Lose a lot of games in a row and then when the season ends your skill points are so low you flung back to mid Aurodium. Then you repeat the process. This is my GAC life.....like the Greek guy and the rock.

    So I think particularly from mid Aurodium it gets very tough. Extremely tough for 4 million players.
  • NS4Life1979
    71 posts Member
    edited August 2022
    i am still not sure why anyone is complaining about matchmaking, there is no such thing as matchmaking, it is as harvestmouse above said, you have a rank, you can see your rank in the leaderboard, you can even see the 50 or so people around you, and the points differences between them and you, and then you get drawn against the 7 other people around you, with the same score as you.

    if you are ranked at 999, you are getting drawn against 998,997,1000,1001 etc etc.. the scores have been accumulating since the GAC system was adapted to this new format, it is not a case of... oh well he has 6.4m GP and he shouldn't be this high up so lets put him up against a load of krakens that he has no chance of beating.
  • Lumiya
    1435 posts Member
    i am still not sure why anyone is complaining about matchmaking, there is no such thing as matchmaking, it is as harvestmouse above said, you have a rank, you can see your rank in the leaderboard, you can even see the 50 or so people around you, and the points differences between them and you, and then you get drawn against the 7 other people around you, with the same score as you.

    if you are ranked at 999, you are getting drawn against 998,997,1000,1001 etc etc.. the scores have been accumulating since the GAC system was adapted to this new format, it is not a case of... oh well he has 6.4m GP and he shouldn't be this high up so lets put him up against a load of krakens that he has no chance of beating.

    And yet nobody ever could explain how the players with the same SR are "ranked". How is it decided that if you have for example 1000 players with the same SR, who gets to be on top of those 1000 and who is the last. Is it just randomly placing you? Is there some code to sort them or not?

    Since it is important whom you are placed with around you, because they will be your next opponents, I say it would be good to know how we are sorted.
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • Lumiya wrote: »
    And yet nobody ever could explain how the players with the same SR are "ranked". How is it decided that if you have for example 1000 players with the same SR, who gets to be on top of those 1000 and who is the last. Is it just randomly placing you? Is there some code to sort them or not?

    Since it is important whom you are placed with around you, because they will be your next opponents, I say it would be good to know how we are sorted.

    That is another of the mysteries that it would be nice to know something about. At the moment it seems totally random and sometimes you are in a more favorable group than other times. Unfortunately, I doubt we will ever get any more information than we already have.
  • nottenst wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    And yet nobody ever could explain how the players with the same SR are "ranked". How is it decided that if you have for example 1000 players with the same SR, who gets to be on top of those 1000 and who is the last. Is it just randomly placing you? Is there some code to sort them or not?

    Since it is important whom you are placed with around you, because they will be your next opponents, I say it would be good to know how we are sorted.

    That is another of the mysteries that it would be nice to know something about. At the moment it seems totally random and sometimes you are in a more favorable group than other times. Unfortunately, I doubt we will ever get any more information than we already have.
    I’ve seen it claimed that Legacy championship points is the criteria for sorting players with the same Skill rating. But I have definitive proof that this isn’t the case….
    8o1gtcweoq86.jpeg

    There are currently 11 players with the same Skill Rating as me. I’ve checked all of our Legacy Championship points and we are NOT being ranked by that metric. I have more than all 3 of the players listed above me.
  • It’s not by ally code either.
  • crzydroid
    7254 posts Moderator
    It’s not by ally code either.

    Maybe by player ID like raids used to be.
  • nottenst wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    And yet nobody ever could explain how the players with the same SR are "ranked". How is it decided that if you have for example 1000 players with the same SR, who gets to be on top of those 1000 and who is the last. Is it just randomly placing you? Is there some code to sort them or not?

    Since it is important whom you are placed with around you, because they will be your next opponents, I say it would be good to know how we are sorted.

    That is another of the mysteries that it would be nice to know something about. At the moment it seems totally random and sometimes you are in a more favorable group than other times. Unfortunately, I doubt we will ever get any more information than we already have.

    Really? You've compared the different groups for difficulty? I have better things to do with my time. Also how do you determine 'difficulty'?

    I don't think it's legacy points either.

    My legacy is

    583,900

    And below me currently on the same Skill points it goes:

    589,521
    338,601
    642,884

    My guess it's just a 'processing' order. Each Arena is sorted in a order and they're placed first in the queue after sorting.

  • crzydroid wrote: »
    It’s not by ally code either.

    Maybe by player ID like raids used to be.
    That would make sense. It is a unique identifier meaning no additional sort.criteria are needed.
  • nottenst
    682 posts Member
    edited August 2022
    Really? You've compared the different groups for difficulty? I have better things to do with my time. Also how do you determine 'difficulty'?

    Just in case this is actually a serious question ....

    If you go to
    https://swgoh.gg/p/YOURALLYID/gac-bracket/
    (using you actual ally id there)

    then you can see your whole bracket at a glance: GP, Zetas, Omicrons, GLs, Relics, Mods, Datacrons, speed and relic level of each GL, each prime omicron character, a variety of other prime characters, Executor, Malevolence, and Negotiator, and then the top 10 in speed of your remaining characters.

    From that you quickly know whether you are most likely outmatched by everyone else in the bracket or whether you stand a chance.

    Here is part of a screen capture of my current GAC bracket.

    cv6b0aq2w0uv.png
    Post edited by nottenst on
  • https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/258352/long-post-about-gac-ranking-trends

    ^^
    Here is my post in another section of the forums about my personal ranking. It's long, but I give the full story on my little quest to figure out how we're ranked

    I was a consistent top player in Division 3 (3 #1 overall finishes), but in the final GAC League before the skill ratings I sandbagged my banner score in every single round. I got the bare minimum needed to still win 9/9 of my matches (don't you miss the days when that was possible 😉).

    Then we got skill ratings, and I've been ranked dead last of my skill rating group, in every round since then, for the last 9 months. Every Single Time.

    I have to at least conclude that ranking isn't random, and that my ranking __in the final 'old' GAC season of 2021__ (which was based on banner count), must be at least partially responsible for my current ranking trend within my skill rating group.

    At the end of the day "rank" only matters for rewards at the top of Kyber 1, and the top of k1 will always have unique ratings. But the rest of us are ranked based on some unknown value, and that means we'll perpetually be matched against other players with a similar value.. which I think is less than ideal.
  • chrisfx
    13 posts Member
    edited August 2022
    I'll try to look into player ID, although I still would be shocked that my ID would be last of all for 9 straight months of GAC. It's something I can hopefully figure out rather quickly though.
  • nottenst wrote: »
    Really? You've compared the different groups for difficulty? I have better things to do with my time. Also how do you determine 'difficulty'?

    Just in case this is actually a serious question ....

    If you go to
    https://swgoh.gg/p/YOURALLYID/gac-bracket/
    (using you actual ally id there)

    then you can see your whole bracket at a glance: GP, Zetas, Omicrons, GLs, Relics, Mods, Datacrons, speed and relic level of each GL, each prime omicron character, a variety of other prime characters, Executor, Malevolence, and Negotiator, and then the top 10 in speed of your remaining characters.

    From that you quickly know whether you are most likely outmatched by everyone else in the bracket or whether you stand a chance.

    Here is part of a screen capture of my current GAC bracket.

    cv6b0aq2w0uv.png

    Of course (if I have time and I'm motivated) I'll look at my bracket on SWGOH.GG

    However, that wasn't what we were discussing. We were discussing 'comparing different brackets of the same skill points' and whether other brackets were consistently easier than 'my/your/our' brackets of the same skill points.
  • chrisfx wrote: »
    At the end of the day "rank" only matters for rewards at the top of Kyber 1, and the top of k1 will always have unique ratings. But the rest of us are ranked based on some unknown value, and that means we'll perpetually be matched against other players with a similar value.. which I think is less than ideal.

    Why does 'rank' only matter for the top of Kyber 1?

    Why is being perpetually matched against players with a similar skill point value not ideal?

    These are both strong claims which you don't (or I haven't seen) clarify.
  • chrisfx wrote: »
    I'll try to look into player ID, although I still would be shocked that my ID would be last of all for 9 straight months of GAC. It's something I can hopefully figure out rather quickly though.
    We’ve established that it’s NOT legacy points, nor is it ally code.

    As far as I know, player ID is not visible in game or on swgoh.gg, so I don’t know how you plan to check this out.

    Can you send a screenshot of your “My Ranking” tab in GAC? I don’t doubt what you’re saying, but it might help figure out what’s going on if we see who’s ranked second last in your skill rating and top of the one below you.
  • chrisfx wrote: »
    I'll try to look into player ID, although I still would be shocked that my ID would be last of all for 9 straight months of GAC. It's something I can hopefully figure out rather quickly though.

    Why would you be shocked? I mean, someone has to be last. If what you're saying is true (and if it really depends on the player ID), then maybe you just happen to have an ID that would be listed as last like 99% of the time because of certain parameters we're not aware of.
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