Verdict is still out on DCs, let’s see how it rotates set in the future. I do see it adds a new dimension to the game. Since I don’t spend any, I usually don’t complain about a new game mode since it is free for me to play anyway.
Most of material comes for free from conquest. I did spend some ally points or shard currencies and used more conquest energy refreshes than what is necessary to max conquest, so there is some resources diverted to DCs, but overall I considered my resources spent on DCs is very minimum and I still managed have 3 L9, 5 L6 and a lot of useful L3 to make it fun.
My number of DCs would not be competitive with whales, but it doesn’t really matter anyway in the current GAC MM format. I also invest 0 GAC omicron too:) as long as I can safely stay in Kyber 1 and collecting my 50% win rate K1 crystals, I consider DCs just as another game mode to have fun, and have some whales interested in prolong the longevity of this game.
This reflects my outlook on the game post-DCs. With the Set 2 economy, you can craft pretty much all the desirable L9s with proper planning, 3x daily refreshes in Conquest energy, and not absolute garbage luck with rerolls; plus a bevy of L3-L6 left over. I look at DCs and see just another game mechanic that rewards roster management over gameplay; I much prefer engaging with the former over the latter.
Datacron has inherited the worst experiences from relics (hard farm) and mods (gear gates and rng). Yeah, really fun game mechanism indeed!
How is DC farming “hard”? 😆 All I have to do is refresh Conquest energy 3x daily and hit auto on the right node.
At least with DCs, your rng factor or mistakes go away in a few months’ time. With mods and gear, you are permanently behind someone who did it right the first time, meaning you cannot catch up without outspending them later. DCs are far fairer than mods or gear.
Wut, how can you do mods or gear wrong? Mods are not rng, someone who have poured same amount of resources will have a similar mod roster to yours, this is how statistics work. I think what you mean is people have better mods than you do because they've been farming them much longer, no?
Meanwhile when a crowd gets to try something only 10 times there can be huge differences in the outcomes.
Not sure where my earlier reply went, so I’ll go ahead and repeat it.
You absolutely can gear wrong by farming inefficiently or buying suboptimally with guild tokens or shard shop currency.
You absolutely can mod wrong by taking bad mods to 6dot, not buying slicing mats with GAC currency, and not checking/buying from the mod store.
If you gear or mod wrong and another player gears or mods correctly, assuming both players spend equally with the same time in game, the latter will have a permanent advantage going forward.
If I happen to have a bad Set 1 and another player has a great Set 1, the latter’s advantage goes away after about 3 months and we’re back to almost equal footing.
Get it?
I think you are not getting it. Don’t you realize you just shot yourself in the foot with your own reasoning?
Modding is not all about luck at farming. As you pointed out you can have over 100 +25 speed but if you put them on the wrong characters your mod advantage is vaporized. The mod advantage older/experienced players have over you is their knowledge about game mechanics and how correct modding is able to manipulate them.
DC works the same way. But RNG and ROI is way worse. And the magnitude how DC manipulates the game mechanics is too OP (especially with GL). That‘s what people is complaining about here.
False equivalency. I’m not interested in arguing about mod luck, but it is a permanent advantage if you invest wisely into mods vs if you don’t. That knowledge gap early on never goes away, so it is definitely unfair to those players who are casual or not competitive early on, but wish to be later down the line.
DCs are inherently fairer to those players I just mentioned, because of the temporary nature of the game mechanic.
And so what if DCs carry more of the power budget going forward, to the detriment of mods and gear? Imo that’s a good thing, it will ensure the whales won’t permanently outclass the F2P, low spenders, and newer players indefinitely; the whales must pay to maintain that advantage gap on a temporary basis. That sounds quite fair to me.
Your sense of fairness is very unfair. What's wrong for long-time players getting rewarded for being loyal customer and actively playing this game over several years? If CG introduces mechanisms like DC with the intention to negate that effect as you proclaimed, then they shall not complain about seasoned players leaving because obviously loyalty to this game does not pay off anymore. By the way, it does not only apply to whales. I'm a F2P player for over 4 years. I accumulated the same long-term advantage in modding and through superior resource management. In your view it's also an unfair advantage? I don't compete against new players in GAC. I mostly compete against whales in my bracket. Datacrons are hurting me more than the whales that's for sure.
Guess who is better in quickly adapt to temporary advantages? Yes, whales.
Go back and check the transcript. I never said long term investment into mods and gear is unfair. I said the temporary nature of DCs is a “fairer” system than mods/gear because advantage gets reset. There’s a difference, maybe you should learn what nuance means.
Long term players already get plenty of advantages from higher crystal income to first pass engagement of new content. DCs are the first equalization mechanic for endgame players in the whole history of the game, at least with respect to money spent.
I don’t claim to know if DCs are worth it or not for CG, so I’m not going to take that bait.
I have no problem with whales getting an advantage over me with DCs at all. I do know that they have to keep spending in perpetuity if they want to maintain that advantage gap; that’s what I care about in a competitive sense.
I wonder why you think DC is a "fairer" equalization mechanic to challenge whaling endgame players? The definition of a whale is someone, who continuously spend large amount of money in in game purchase. Otherwise they can be hardly considered whales, right?
Now, as someone, who do not whale/not spend money on this game at all, I actually have the same interest like you: to equalize my disadvantage of not spending. I do this via more efficiency in roster management and modding. So far it proved to be quite fair for me. Time spent vs money spent. I fail to see how DC is going to accomplish this for me more easily. It's not that I compete against players, who have no idea how to use datacrons. The only difference is, most of them can/want spend money, I don't. It's an arms race I cannot win. With efficient modding and roster management on the other hand, the gap will become smaller, the longer you play. That's the equalization mechanic, which is fun and does not feel cheap.
Good points.
I look at GOH and see a roster management game with the end goal of having the best roster possible, with the lowest amount of real $ input and game play effort to meet that end goal. I compare myself to the entire broad player population, and while I’m probably in the top 1% of the total player base from a roster standpoint, there is simply no way for me to challenge the top 0.01% or so on mods and gear, because I top out as a light spender.
You say the mod gap can be closed over time, but I disagree, as far as that top 0.01% is concerned. I suspect you’re looking at it from the lens of how many squads/fleets are allowed or gets used per matchup. While the “close gap” can hold true based on artificial metrics that CG sets, it is objectively untrue in the absolute sense if you take a look at the entire toon roster and the totality of the top 0.01%’s mod roster.
When I look at DCs, I see something that whales can’t just buy to increase the roster management gap indefinitely, as how I’ve defined it. However much power they gain with DCs, I feel a lot better knowing it will be reset later. This seems much more fair to me because any benefits they gain from investing into DCs above and beyond my own, is entirely ephemeral and not as real as mods and gear, with respect to roster management from my viewpoint.
It’s a matter of perspective. I look at the game from that holistic roster management standpoint, you probably look at the game from a strategic or tactical side from battle to battle. If that is true, I understand where you are coming from and your distaste for DCs, because there is no way you can challenge whales as easily with DCs as you did with mods and gear, with those artificial CG metrics in mind. I’m not going to argue this point, because I agree it would suck from your standpoint.
Verdict is still out on DCs, let’s see how it rotates set in the future. I do see it adds a new dimension to the game. Since I don’t spend any, I usually don’t complain about a new game mode since it is free for me to play anyway.
Most of material comes for free from conquest. I did spend some ally points or shard currencies and used more conquest energy refreshes than what is necessary to max conquest, so there is some resources diverted to DCs, but overall I considered my resources spent on DCs is very minimum and I still managed have 3 L9, 5 L6 and a lot of useful L3 to make it fun.
My number of DCs would not be competitive with whales, but it doesn’t really matter anyway in the current GAC MM format. I also invest 0 GAC omicron too:) as long as I can safely stay in Kyber 1 and collecting my 50% win rate K1 crystals, I consider DCs just as another game mode to have fun, and have some whales interested in prolong the longevity of this game.
This reflects my outlook on the game post-DCs. With the Set 2 economy, you can craft pretty much all the desirable L9s with proper planning, 3x daily refreshes in Conquest energy, and not absolute garbage luck with rerolls; plus a bevy of L3-L6 left over. I look at DCs and see just another game mechanic that rewards roster management over gameplay; I much prefer engaging with the former over the latter.
Datacron has inherited the worst experiences from relics (hard farm) and mods (gear gates and rng). Yeah, really fun game mechanism indeed!
How is DC farming “hard”? 😆 All I have to do is refresh Conquest energy 3x daily and hit auto on the right node.
At least with DCs, your rng factor or mistakes go away in a few months’ time. With mods and gear, you are permanently behind someone who did it right the first time, meaning you cannot catch up without outspending them later. DCs are far fairer than mods or gear.
Wut, how can you do mods or gear wrong? Mods are not rng, someone who have poured same amount of resources will have a similar mod roster to yours, this is how statistics work. I think what you mean is people have better mods than you do because they've been farming them much longer, no?
Meanwhile when a crowd gets to try something only 10 times there can be huge differences in the outcomes.
Not sure where my earlier reply went, so I’ll go ahead and repeat it.
You absolutely can gear wrong by farming inefficiently or buying suboptimally with guild tokens or shard shop currency.
You absolutely can mod wrong by taking bad mods to 6dot, not buying slicing mats with GAC currency, and not checking/buying from the mod store.
If you gear or mod wrong and another player gears or mods correctly, assuming both players spend equally with the same time in game, the latter will have a permanent advantage going forward.
If I happen to have a bad Set 1 and another player has a great Set 1, the latter’s advantage goes away after about 3 months and we’re back to almost equal footing.
Get it?
I think you are not getting it. Don’t you realize you just shot yourself in the foot with your own reasoning?
Modding is not all about luck at farming. As you pointed out you can have over 100 +25 speed but if you put them on the wrong characters your mod advantage is vaporized. The mod advantage older/experienced players have over you is their knowledge about game mechanics and how correct modding is able to manipulate them.
DC works the same way. But RNG and ROI is way worse. And the magnitude how DC manipulates the game mechanics is too OP (especially with GL). That‘s what people is complaining about here.
False equivalency. I’m not interested in arguing about mod luck, but it is a permanent advantage if you invest wisely into mods vs if you don’t. That knowledge gap early on never goes away, so it is definitely unfair to those players who are casual or not competitive early on, but wish to be later down the line.
DCs are inherently fairer to those players I just mentioned, because of the temporary nature of the game mechanic.
And so what if DCs carry more of the power budget going forward, to the detriment of mods and gear? Imo that’s a good thing, it will ensure the whales won’t permanently outclass the F2P, low spenders, and newer players indefinitely; the whales must pay to maintain that advantage gap on a temporary basis. That sounds quite fair to me.
Your sense of fairness is very unfair. What's wrong for long-time players getting rewarded for being loyal customer and actively playing this game over several years? If CG introduces mechanisms like DC with the intention to negate that effect as you proclaimed, then they shall not complain about seasoned players leaving because obviously loyalty to this game does not pay off anymore. By the way, it does not only apply to whales. I'm a F2P player for over 4 years. I accumulated the same long-term advantage in modding and through superior resource management. In your view it's also an unfair advantage? I don't compete against new players in GAC. I mostly compete against whales in my bracket. Datacrons are hurting me more than the whales that's for sure.
Guess who is better in quickly adapt to temporary advantages? Yes, whales.
Go back and check the transcript. I never said long term investment into mods and gear is unfair. I said the temporary nature of DCs is a “fairer” system than mods/gear because advantage gets reset. There’s a difference, maybe you should learn what nuance means.
Long term players already get plenty of advantages from higher crystal income to first pass engagement of new content. DCs are the first equalization mechanic for endgame players in the whole history of the game, at least with respect to money spent.
I don’t claim to know if DCs are worth it or not for CG, so I’m not going to take that bait.
I have no problem with whales getting an advantage over me with DCs at all. I do know that they have to keep spending in perpetuity if they want to maintain that advantage gap; that’s what I care about in a competitive sense.
I wonder why you think DC is a "fairer" equalization mechanic to challenge whaling endgame players? The definition of a whale is someone, who continuously spend large amount of money in in game purchase. Otherwise they can be hardly considered whales, right?
Now, as someone, who do not whale/not spend money on this game at all, I actually have the same interest like you: to equalize my disadvantage of not spending. I do this via more efficiency in roster management and modding. So far it proved to be quite fair for me. Time spent vs money spent. I fail to see how DC is going to accomplish this for me more easily. It's not that I compete against players, who have no idea how to use datacrons. The only difference is, most of them can/want spend money, I don't. It's an arms race I cannot win. With efficient modding and roster management on the other hand, the gap will become smaller, the longer you play. That's the equalization mechanic, which is fun and does not feel cheap.
Good points.
I look at GOH and see a roster management game with the end goal of having the best roster possible, with the lowest amount of real $ input and game play effort to meet that end goal. I compare myself to the entire broad player population, and while I’m probably in the top 1% of the total player base from a roster standpoint, there is simply no way for me to challenge the top 0.01% or so on mods and gear, because I top out as a light spender.
You say the mod gap can be closed over time, but I disagree, as far as that top 0.01% is concerned. I suspect you’re looking at it from the lens of how many squads/fleets are allowed or gets used per matchup. While the “close gap” can hold true based on artificial metrics that CG sets, it is objectively untrue in the absolute sense if you take a look at the entire toon roster and the totality of the top 0.01%’s mod roster.
When I look at DCs, I see something that whales can’t just buy to increase the roster management gap indefinitely, as how I’ve defined it. However much power they gain with DCs, I feel a lot better knowing it will be reset later. This seems much more fair to me because any benefits they gain from investing into DCs above and beyond my own, is entirely ephemeral and not as real as mods and gear, with respect to roster management from my viewpoint.
It’s a matter of perspective. I look at the game from that holistic roster management standpoint, you probably look at the game from a strategic or tactical side from battle to battle. If that is true, I understand where you are coming from and your distaste for DCs, because there is no way you can challenge whales as easily with DCs as you did with mods and gear, with those artificial CG metrics in mind. I’m not going to argue this point, because I agree it would suck from your standpoint.
It‘s not really a matter of perspective. It‘s a matter of adapting to changes regardless from which angle you look at it.
Mod gap closed? Surely not. But like I said it become smaller the longer you play. Like the fact you can put only one L9 DC on your Rey at a time, you can also only put on six mods on your Rey at a time. Once you meet the criteria of a „well-modded“ Rey, you are done with it. It might take longer to get there as F2P for sure, but it is doable and the result is permanent. I can plan my investment accordingly and the best thing is, I can swap the mods to any other character I want. The usage of mods is universal and not limited to one specific faction or character. Even if I’m not that lucky and do not meet the „well-modded“ criteria immediately, my Rey is still usable, just a little bit less reliant in doing exactly same thing other „perfectly modded“ Reys can do. Nothing of that is true for DC bonuses. Either you get it or you don’t.
As F2P player I have to be very selective in investing in a set of datacron the moment it becomes available. Whales have a much faster jump start on new sets. They can just „buy“ all variations and worry later which one to use. Also they can take any character to relic7 instantly to try out their new toy. And even if the three sets of DC stay cycling the way they are moving forward there is no guarantee you will always be able to roll the same OP DCs you had before without spending. Again, It’s an all or nothing game.
Lots of arguing in here. My position is still purely a matter of opinion. I hate them. They have unsettled things in a way that I do not like. Others are welcome to feel otherwise.
I really hope CG has some kind of announcement after this "Exhibition" period is over where they summarize how they see DCs going forward. Any chance of that happening, @Ultra
Lots of arguing in here. My position is still purely a matter of opinion. I hate them. They have unsettled things in a way that I do not like. Others are welcome to feel otherwise.
I really hope CG has some kind of announcement after this "Exhibition" period is over where they summarize how they see DCs going forward. Any chance of that happening, Ultra
Players who can’t do hard mode or don’t have 6 GLs plus Exec currently, should probably shore up those deficiencies before tackling DCs, correct.
DCs are an endgame concern. Newer and weaker players should engage with all the other permanent sources of power like getting all GLs and having a good mod base, before sinking crystals and shard shop currency into DCs.
People really have to get away from the "endgame content" argument!
As long as all players can be matched with everyone this is a moot point!
If there are no distinctions in MM then there should be no distinctions in giving the players equal chances of accumulating exactly the same to have an equal/fair chance.
You can not put players in different categories if it fits your view but then throw them all together in PvP!
You either equalize everything or you keep those different categories seperated everywhere.
Not only should they get away from the idea that they are end game but also that they are temporary. Yes individual dcs are temporary but dc power is not. It’s not like the moment set one goes away everyone is on equal footing again as many keep saying. Those that invested in dcs for set one will have a leg up on set 4, set 2 gets you a leg up on set 5. Sure you don’t get everything back, but you get an amount that is significant.
It’s also obvious that eventually dc sets will move to a six month cycle. 2 months in conquest four being used after leaving conquest. Not sure how that’ll affect things. Whales will setup all l9s l6s and l3s they need and then reroll the stat levels for the most annoying combinations on even more dcs. The average player will have more dcs though not the optimal non l3/6/9s but likely the optimal l3/6/9. So all of the effort to get back to where we started with no tangible increase in rewards. This is the worst form of “content”, work on something to not lose rewards instead of invest in something to increase your rewards.
Players who can’t do hard mode or don’t have 6 GLs plus Exec currently, should probably shore up those deficiencies before tackling DCs, correct.
DCs are an endgame concern. Newer and weaker players should engage with all the other permanent sources of power like getting all GLs and having a good mod base, before sinking crystals and shard shop currency into DCs.
People really have to get away from the "endgame content" argument!
As long as all players can be matched with everyone this is a moot point!
If there are no distinctions in MM then there should be no distinctions in giving the players equal chances of accumulating exactly the same to have an equal/fair chance.
You can not put players in different categories if it fits your view but then throw them all together in PvP!
You either equalize everything or you keep those different categories seperated everywhere.
Nothing is stopping a non-endgame player from engaging with DCs. If you ask CG’s opinion, they will enthusiastically endorse such a thing. And I bet there will be baby whales out there doing just that month after month in Chromium or Aurodium.
I’m only pointing out that all this arguing about DCs isn’t likely to affect non-endgame players because if they are playing optimally, they should get all the GLs before worrying about DCs and thus are insulated from the supposed problems.
Players who can’t do hard mode or don’t have 6 GLs plus Exec currently, should probably shore up those deficiencies before tackling DCs, correct.
DCs are an endgame concern. Newer and weaker players should engage with all the other permanent sources of power like getting all GLs and having a good mod base, before sinking crystals and shard shop currency into DCs.
People really have to get away from the "endgame content" argument!
As long as all players can be matched with everyone this is a moot point!
If there are no distinctions in MM then there should be no distinctions in giving the players equal chances of accumulating exactly the same to have an equal/fair chance.
You can not put players in different categories if it fits your view but then throw them all together in PvP!
You either equalize everything or you keep those different categories seperated everywhere.
Nothing is stopping a non-endgame player from engaging with DCs. If you ask CG’s opinion, they will enthusiastically endorse such a thing. And I bet there will be baby whales out there doing just that month after month in Chromium or Aurodium.
I’m only pointing out that all this arguing about DCs isn’t likely to affect non-endgame players because if they are playing optimally, they should get all the GLs before worrying about DCs and thus are insulated from the supposed problems.
The different/less rewards are stopping smaller players from engaging with them (fully).
What makes you think they are not affected by having less? Of course they are. I repeat, as long as they can be matched with higher players with better/ more DCs they are not insulated and it is not a supposed problem, it is a problem.
Players who can’t do hard mode or don’t have 6 GLs plus Exec currently, should probably shore up those deficiencies before tackling DCs, correct.
DCs are an endgame concern. Newer and weaker players should engage with all the other permanent sources of power like getting all GLs and having a good mod base, before sinking crystals and shard shop currency into DCs.
People really have to get away from the "endgame content" argument!
As long as all players can be matched with everyone this is a moot point!
If there are no distinctions in MM then there should be no distinctions in giving the players equal chances of accumulating exactly the same to have an equal/fair chance.
You can not put players in different categories if it fits your view but then throw them all together in PvP!
You either equalize everything or you keep those different categories seperated everywhere.
Nothing is stopping a non-endgame player from engaging with DCs. If you ask CG’s opinion, they will enthusiastically endorse such a thing. And I bet there will be baby whales out there doing just that month after month in Chromium or Aurodium.
I’m only pointing out that all this arguing about DCs isn’t likely to affect non-endgame players because if they are playing optimally, they should get all the GLs before worrying about DCs and thus are insulated from the supposed problems.
All this arguing about DCs won't affect anyone other than those arguing. 99% (anecdotal) of the player base will never read it, and CG doesn't care.
Players who can’t do hard mode or don’t have 6 GLs plus Exec currently, should probably shore up those deficiencies before tackling DCs, correct.
DCs are an endgame concern. Newer and weaker players should engage with all the other permanent sources of power like getting all GLs and having a good mod base, before sinking crystals and shard shop currency into DCs.
People really have to get away from the "endgame content" argument!
As long as all players can be matched with everyone this is a moot point!
If there are no distinctions in MM then there should be no distinctions in giving the players equal chances of accumulating exactly the same to have an equal/fair chance.
You can not put players in different categories if it fits your view but then throw them all together in PvP!
You either equalize everything or you keep those different categories seperated everywhere.
Nothing is stopping a non-endgame player from engaging with DCs. If you ask CG’s opinion, they will enthusiastically endorse such a thing. And I bet there will be baby whales out there doing just that month after month in Chromium or Aurodium.
I’m only pointing out that all this arguing about DCs isn’t likely to affect non-endgame players because if they are playing optimally, they should get all the GLs before worrying about DCs and thus are insulated from the supposed problems.
All this arguing about DCs won't affect anyone other than those arguing. 99% (anecdotal) of the player base will never read it, and CG doesn't care.
That probably the case for 99% (anecdotal) for anything posted on the forum.
Players who can’t do hard mode or don’t have 6 GLs plus Exec currently, should probably shore up those deficiencies before tackling DCs, correct.
DCs are an endgame concern. Newer and weaker players should engage with all the other permanent sources of power like getting all GLs and having a good mod base, before sinking crystals and shard shop currency into DCs.
People really have to get away from the "endgame content" argument!
As long as all players can be matched with everyone this is a moot point!
If there are no distinctions in MM then there should be no distinctions in giving the players equal chances of accumulating exactly the same to have an equal/fair chance.
You can not put players in different categories if it fits your view but then throw them all together in PvP!
You either equalize everything or you keep those different categories seperated everywhere.
Nothing is stopping a non-endgame player from engaging with DCs. If you ask CG’s opinion, they will enthusiastically endorse such a thing. And I bet there will be baby whales out there doing just that month after month in Chromium or Aurodium.
I’m only pointing out that all this arguing about DCs isn’t likely to affect non-endgame players because if they are playing optimally, they should get all the GLs before worrying about DCs and thus are insulated from the supposed problems.
All this arguing about DCs won't affect anyone other than those arguing. 99% (anecdotal) of the player base will never read it, and CG doesn't care.
That probably the case for 99% (anecdotal) for anything posted on the forum.
Lots of arguing in here. My position is still purely a matter of opinion. I hate them. They have unsettled things in a way that I do not like. Others are welcome to feel otherwise.
I really hope CG has some kind of announcement after this "Exhibition" period is over where they summarize how they see DCs going forward. Any chance of that happening, @Ultra
They said that we are still in exhibition phase, but they will make a post when they do move out of exhibition phase, and there are some significant changes but no major changes so far
Has someone explained what happens when a set of Datacrons is no longer active? Do they automatically dismantle or do you need to manually do that for each one you have built? Is there a time limit for dismantling inactive Datacrons?
Has someone explained what happens when a set of Datacrons is no longer active? Do they automatically dismantle or do you need to manually do that for each one you have built? Is there a time limit for dismantling inactive Datacrons?
Datacron Mats- maybe I missed this but needed to verify. The datacrons are gone on Sep 5th- do we lose all unused mats as well, and cache? Or can they be saved for the next round?
Data cache is global, meaning it's the same for every set.
I am referring to the Sep 5 datacron reset, as opposed to each series. I expect the cache to remain- how about the mats? Theoretically those mats could be used for series 1, 2, and 3 again during the next datacron cycle. Or is everything in our datacron inventory being reset?
Datacron Mats- maybe I missed this but needed to verify. The datacrons are gone on Sep 5th- do we lose all unused mats as well, and cache? Or can they be saved for the next round?
Data cache is global, meaning it's the same for every set.
I am referring to the Sep 5 datacron reset, as opposed to each series. I expect the cache to remain- how about the mats? Theoretically those mats could be used for series 1, 2, and 3 again during the next datacron cycle. Or is everything in our datacron inventory being reset?
Among other things you asked if we lose data cache, and the answer is no, it is the same across all sets. This was answered in the original Road Ahead.
I have a question! Hey CG? Who decided that THIS would be "fun" for players? This happens to me multiple times a day in arena because some players got the level 6 stun if you blink ability and others didn't. So seriously, who thought this was a good idea to implement? I think you really need to hire a common sense checker. Before you implement an idea, you go to them and ask, "Is this a good idea to implement?" and if they say, nope that's pretty stupid! You don't. OR, you go back home and rethink your life and maybe decide not to put ultimate stun, 800% health steal, etc., on Galactic Legends?
Why did I spend so much money, time, and effort on a game and why should we spend anything more if you're going to implement such inane options that can be picked up just based on simple RNG and destroy entire rosters regardless of work put into them?
I have a question! Hey CG? Who decided that THIS would be "fun" for players? This happens to me multiple times a day in arena because some players got the level 6 stun if you blink ability and others didn't. So seriously, who thought this was a good idea to implement? I think you really need to hire a common sense checker. Before you implement an idea, you go to them and ask, "Is this a good idea to implement?" and if they say, nope that's pretty stupid! You don't. OR, you go back home and rethink your life and maybe decide not to put ultimate stun, 800% health steal, etc., on Galactic Legends?
Why did I spend so much money, time, and effort on a game and why should we spend anything more if you're going to implement such inane options that can be picked up just based on simple RNG and destroy entire rosters regardless of work put into them?
And it's all TEMPORARY!
This "collection" game is based on earning or paying for content/characters and now all your hard work goes away.. It's ridiculous and I won't "engage" with money or any crystals.
You are simply destroying your project. DC is the worst and worst thing ever to happen to this game.
All game mechanics are broken, the tactical game now does not make any sense at all. And this was the main feature of the game, because of which it was played.
Unlike a lot of people, I actually enjoy datacrons, but here the things that I don’t like and that could be improved on.
1. Datacrons shouldn’t boost GLs. You could make an argument for the stat boosts applying to GLs but none of the other bonus mechanics, but I think skipping them entirely would be better. By doing that, it’s less of dramatic power shift and allows you to boost non GLs to make them more powerful. After playing with them since they’ve come out I think this would allow them to be more of what they were intended to be, a way to boost less relevant toons and make them compete in the game modes where datacrons are active and really encourage theory crafting. In some cases you could have a non GL squad competitive with GLs which people would love, and since they’re temporary by design, it wouldn’t cause any long term power balance issues, if at all.
2. Some of level 9 character bonuses are so powerful that can make some squads virtually unbeatable, but not everyone can get the same abilities. This is mostly true of GLs, so removing them from the equation as suggested above would pretty much solve this anyway. However some players have a huge advantage with a particular set of abilities and others can burn through all their resources trying to unlock those same abilities and never manage to roll them. I don’t know the solution to that but it seems a little unfair. Maybe making rerolls less costly would help but it will probably take more than that to fix.
3. When conquest isn’t running there aren’t enough ways to get datacron materials so it makes upgrading and creating them very difficult and takes a lot of the fun out of it.
I know they’re new and will evolve over time, but at this point these feel like the biggest issues to me. I think adjusting them to not impact GLs would solve a lot of what makes people not like them, so changing that one element would be the most significant thing you could do.
I do appreciate your illumination of the data cache carryover
Was it implied that the other mats would not carry over? Or that every set will need a different mat so it wouldn’t even matter if they carried over? Unless someday they returned a set…
Datacron Mats- maybe I missed this but needed to verify. The datacrons are gone on Sep 5th- do we lose all unused mats as well, and cache? Or can they be saved for the next round?
Data cache is global, meaning it's the same for every set.
I am referring to the Sep 5 datacron reset, as opposed to each series. I expect the cache to remain- how about the mats? Theoretically those mats could be used for series 1, 2, and 3 again during the next datacron cycle. Or is everything in our datacron inventory being reset?
Among other things you asked if we lose data cache, and the answer is no, it is the same across all sets. This was answered in the original Road Ahead.
3 months and 17 pages later of feedback laters ...
Is it possible to have a locked post to summerize want we want/expect from datacrons, and what CG is ready to work on / discuss ? We gave feedback but it should be in both ways, what are they waiting for ??? What worse for a company to work on something we don't want and keep quiet (agile methodology, you should try) ....
Is it possible that CG share an infographics on how many people buy datacrons (or any datacron materials), or may be swgoh.gg could do something like a datacrons stats to summerize how many datacrons people own?
3 months and 17 pages later of feedback laters ...
Is it possible to have a locked post to summerize want we want/expect from datacrons, and what CG is ready to work on / discuss ? We gave feedback but it should be in both ways, what are they waiting for ??? What worse for a company to work on something we don't want and keep quiet (agile methodology, you should try) ....
Is it possible that CG share an infographics on how many people buy datacrons (or any datacron materials), or may be swgoh.gg could do something like a datacrons stats to summerize how many datacrons people own?
No, CG will not tell us what they are ready to work on or discuss. They read our feedback, but rarely actually take it into account. They may use agile internally, but they will never communicate such things to us.
CG will also never share internal data like how many users engage with this or that. The closest I think we've ever gotten was when they cancelled Tournaments and told us it was an engagement issue. If you want specific data about the datacrons I think .gg has it.
They may use agile internally, but they will never communicate such things to us.
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Yeah classic mistake of agile, implement it partially just to suit bussiness. It's a shame, agile methodology can be great if done correctly, developpers and users working together toward a common goal.
3. I like that DCs have made the same old battles more interesting while opening up new counters that work for just a limited time.
I wonder what fun you are referring to going up against a Rey with 1 mililion dmg per ult or an JMK/Aayla perma stun combo, where your team hardly take a turn.
I don't think you understand why people hate datacrons. It's not because they don't know how to use them. They hate them because they know too well how datacrons can be used to manipulate game balance, which was built more free-to-play friendly on things like modding and game knowledge.
The specific fun I and some of my guildmates are having, is finding out the lowest econ JML-riposte squad to beat fast ult JMK L9s. We’ve got it down to no JKR and no JKL needed. I fully expect more such scenarios to come up in future months, which shake up historically settled counters.
You can counter Rey ult damage L9 with the mirror very easily. You can easily beat Aayla L9 with JML, can’t chain infinite stuns into turns if you can’t stun a taunting GL. If you didn’t build up the right DC to counter those specific DCs, so what? It’s only game, you’ll get the next one.
I know full well why certain endgame players hate DCs. Yes, they invalidate your past investments in modding and counters at the top end, on a variable basis. I’m telling you most players don’t give a ****, including some endgame players like me who are willing to deal with the uncertainties around DCs. Players like me will happily move on up if you feel that badly enough about DCs to quit. I’m just honest enough to tell it to your face.
So you counter datacrons vs datacrons, so what? You are still looking at game mechanisms to find counters. It's the same approach as usual, only it gates the vast majority of players from participating in theorycrafting because only whales can affort a shipload of the new toys.
Btw. you can't counter Rey ult dmg L9 with mirror. Because Rey mirror is all about timing your ult after your opponents. But the L6 faction bonus with 15% TM manipulation will throw your timing off. Been there, done that. Can't recommend to try it, unless of course you got your own L9 datacron.
I honestly couldnt care less about you moving up or down. I, like many players see the fun in GAC diminishing a lot at the moment. It's for sure not because of the uncertainties. I won't be compete within my current skill ranking if I can't handle uncertainties. What worries me is the very fact GAC wins now are determined by wallets rather than by skill and game knowledge. Maybe things will get better in few months, when datacrons are all over the places. But right now, I don't see datacrons do any good to the game.
3. I like that DCs have made the same old battles more interesting while opening up new counters that work for just a limited time.
I wonder what fun you are referring to going up against a Rey with 1 mililion dmg per ult or an JMK/Aayla perma stun combo, where your team hardly take a turn.
I don't think you understand why people hate datacrons. It's not because they don't know how to use them. They hate them because they know too well how datacrons can be used to manipulate game balance, which was built more free-to-play friendly on things like modding and game knowledge.
The specific fun I and some of my guildmates are having, is finding out the lowest econ JML-riposte squad to beat fast ult JMK L9s. We’ve got it down to no JKR and no JKL needed. I fully expect more such scenarios to come up in future months, which shake up historically settled counters.
You can counter Rey ult damage L9 with the mirror very easily. You can easily beat Aayla L9 with JML, can’t chain infinite stuns into turns if you can’t stun a taunting GL. If you didn’t build up the right DC to counter those specific DCs, so what? It’s only game, you’ll get the next one.
I know full well why certain endgame players hate DCs. Yes, they invalidate your past investments in modding and counters at the top end, on a variable basis. I’m telling you most players don’t give a ****, including some endgame players like me who are willing to deal with the uncertainties around DCs. Players like me will happily move on up if you feel that badly enough about DCs to quit. I’m just honest enough to tell it to your face.
So you counter datacrons vs datacrons, so what? You are still looking at game mechanisms to find counters. It's the same old-fashioned approach, only with the difference it gates the vast majority of players from participating in theorycrafting because only whales can affort a shipload of the new toys.
Btw. you can't counter Rey ult dmg L9 with mirror. Because Rey mirror is all about timing your ult after your opponents. But the L6 faction bonus with 15% TM manipulation will throw your timing off. Been there, done that. Can't recommend to try it, unless of course you got your own L9 datacron.
I honestly couldnt care less about you moving up or down. I, like many players see the fun in GAC diminishing a lot at the moment. It's for sure not because of the uncertainties. I won't be compete within my current skill ranking if I can't handle uncertainties. What worries me is the very fact GAC wins now are determined by wallets rather than by skill and game knowledge. Maybe things will get better in few months, when datacrons are all over the places. But right now, I don't see datacrons do any good to the game.
Replies
Good points.
I look at GOH and see a roster management game with the end goal of having the best roster possible, with the lowest amount of real $ input and game play effort to meet that end goal. I compare myself to the entire broad player population, and while I’m probably in the top 1% of the total player base from a roster standpoint, there is simply no way for me to challenge the top 0.01% or so on mods and gear, because I top out as a light spender.
You say the mod gap can be closed over time, but I disagree, as far as that top 0.01% is concerned. I suspect you’re looking at it from the lens of how many squads/fleets are allowed or gets used per matchup. While the “close gap” can hold true based on artificial metrics that CG sets, it is objectively untrue in the absolute sense if you take a look at the entire toon roster and the totality of the top 0.01%’s mod roster.
When I look at DCs, I see something that whales can’t just buy to increase the roster management gap indefinitely, as how I’ve defined it. However much power they gain with DCs, I feel a lot better knowing it will be reset later. This seems much more fair to me because any benefits they gain from investing into DCs above and beyond my own, is entirely ephemeral and not as real as mods and gear, with respect to roster management from my viewpoint.
It’s a matter of perspective. I look at the game from that holistic roster management standpoint, you probably look at the game from a strategic or tactical side from battle to battle. If that is true, I understand where you are coming from and your distaste for DCs, because there is no way you can challenge whales as easily with DCs as you did with mods and gear, with those artificial CG metrics in mind. I’m not going to argue this point, because I agree it would suck from your standpoint.
It‘s not really a matter of perspective. It‘s a matter of adapting to changes regardless from which angle you look at it.
Mod gap closed? Surely not. But like I said it become smaller the longer you play. Like the fact you can put only one L9 DC on your Rey at a time, you can also only put on six mods on your Rey at a time. Once you meet the criteria of a „well-modded“ Rey, you are done with it. It might take longer to get there as F2P for sure, but it is doable and the result is permanent. I can plan my investment accordingly and the best thing is, I can swap the mods to any other character I want. The usage of mods is universal and not limited to one specific faction or character. Even if I’m not that lucky and do not meet the „well-modded“ criteria immediately, my Rey is still usable, just a little bit less reliant in doing exactly same thing other „perfectly modded“ Reys can do. Nothing of that is true for DC bonuses. Either you get it or you don’t.
As F2P player I have to be very selective in investing in a set of datacron the moment it becomes available. Whales have a much faster jump start on new sets. They can just „buy“ all variations and worry later which one to use. Also they can take any character to relic7 instantly to try out their new toy. And even if the three sets of DC stay cycling the way they are moving forward there is no guarantee you will always be able to roll the same OP DCs you had before without spending. Again, It’s an all or nothing game.
I really hope CG has some kind of announcement after this "Exhibition" period is over where they summarize how they see DCs going forward. Any chance of that happening, @Ultra
forwarded your post to them
People really have to get away from the "endgame content" argument!
As long as all players can be matched with everyone this is a moot point!
If there are no distinctions in MM then there should be no distinctions in giving the players equal chances of accumulating exactly the same to have an equal/fair chance.
You can not put players in different categories if it fits your view but then throw them all together in PvP!
You either equalize everything or you keep those different categories seperated everywhere.
It’s also obvious that eventually dc sets will move to a six month cycle. 2 months in conquest four being used after leaving conquest. Not sure how that’ll affect things. Whales will setup all l9s l6s and l3s they need and then reroll the stat levels for the most annoying combinations on even more dcs. The average player will have more dcs though not the optimal non l3/6/9s but likely the optimal l3/6/9. So all of the effort to get back to where we started with no tangible increase in rewards. This is the worst form of “content”, work on something to not lose rewards instead of invest in something to increase your rewards.
Nothing is stopping a non-endgame player from engaging with DCs. If you ask CG’s opinion, they will enthusiastically endorse such a thing. And I bet there will be baby whales out there doing just that month after month in Chromium or Aurodium.
I’m only pointing out that all this arguing about DCs isn’t likely to affect non-endgame players because if they are playing optimally, they should get all the GLs before worrying about DCs and thus are insulated from the supposed problems.
The different/less rewards are stopping smaller players from engaging with them (fully).
What makes you think they are not affected by having less? Of course they are. I repeat, as long as they can be matched with higher players with better/ more DCs they are not insulated and it is not a supposed problem, it is a problem.
All this arguing about DCs won't affect anyone other than those arguing. 99% (anecdotal) of the player base will never read it, and CG doesn't care.
That probably the case for 99% (anecdotal) for anything posted on the forum.
Also anecdotal but agreed.
They said that we are still in exhibition phase, but they will make a post when they do move out of exhibition phase, and there are some significant changes but no major changes so far
Thanks.
Auto dismantled and broken down to materials.
I am referring to the Sep 5 datacron reset, as opposed to each series. I expect the cache to remain- how about the mats? Theoretically those mats could be used for series 1, 2, and 3 again during the next datacron cycle. Or is everything in our datacron inventory being reset?
Among other things you asked if we lose data cache, and the answer is no, it is the same across all sets. This was answered in the original Road Ahead.
Why did I spend so much money, time, and effort on a game and why should we spend anything more if you're going to implement such inane options that can be picked up just based on simple RNG and destroy entire rosters regardless of work put into them?
And it's all TEMPORARY!
This "collection" game is based on earning or paying for content/characters and now all your hard work goes away.. It's ridiculous and I won't "engage" with money or any crystals.
I don't like Datacrons. L
All game mechanics are broken, the tactical game now does not make any sense at all. And this was the main feature of the game, because of which it was played.
1. Datacrons shouldn’t boost GLs. You could make an argument for the stat boosts applying to GLs but none of the other bonus mechanics, but I think skipping them entirely would be better. By doing that, it’s less of dramatic power shift and allows you to boost non GLs to make them more powerful. After playing with them since they’ve come out I think this would allow them to be more of what they were intended to be, a way to boost less relevant toons and make them compete in the game modes where datacrons are active and really encourage theory crafting. In some cases you could have a non GL squad competitive with GLs which people would love, and since they’re temporary by design, it wouldn’t cause any long term power balance issues, if at all.
2. Some of level 9 character bonuses are so powerful that can make some squads virtually unbeatable, but not everyone can get the same abilities. This is mostly true of GLs, so removing them from the equation as suggested above would pretty much solve this anyway. However some players have a huge advantage with a particular set of abilities and others can burn through all their resources trying to unlock those same abilities and never manage to roll them. I don’t know the solution to that but it seems a little unfair. Maybe making rerolls less costly would help but it will probably take more than that to fix.
3. When conquest isn’t running there aren’t enough ways to get datacron materials so it makes upgrading and creating them very difficult and takes a lot of the fun out of it.
I know they’re new and will evolve over time, but at this point these feel like the biggest issues to me. I think adjusting them to not impact GLs would solve a lot of what makes people not like them, so changing that one element would be the most significant thing you could do.
Was it implied that the other mats would not carry over? Or that every set will need a different mat so it wouldn’t even matter if they carried over? Unless someday they returned a set…
Is it possible to have a locked post to summerize want we want/expect from datacrons, and what CG is ready to work on / discuss ? We gave feedback but it should be in both ways, what are they waiting for ??? What worse for a company to work on something we don't want and keep quiet (agile methodology, you should try) ....
Is it possible that CG share an infographics on how many people buy datacrons (or any datacron materials), or may be swgoh.gg could do something like a datacrons stats to summerize how many datacrons people own?
Probably in the road ahead that is coming within the first two weeks of sept
No, CG will not tell us what they are ready to work on or discuss. They read our feedback, but rarely actually take it into account. They may use agile internally, but they will never communicate such things to us.
CG will also never share internal data like how many users engage with this or that. The closest I think we've ever gotten was when they cancelled Tournaments and told us it was an engagement issue. If you want specific data about the datacrons I think .gg has it.
Does this mean an update before Set 4 is scheduled to begin is unlikely? Set 1 expires on Sep 6. There are only 2 business days before that date.
Yeah classic mistake of agile, implement it partially just to suit bussiness. It's a shame, agile methodology can be great if done correctly, developpers and users working together toward a common goal.
So you counter datacrons vs datacrons, so what? You are still looking at game mechanisms to find counters. It's the same approach as usual, only it gates the vast majority of players from participating in theorycrafting because only whales can affort a shipload of the new toys.
Btw. you can't counter Rey ult dmg L9 with mirror. Because Rey mirror is all about timing your ult after your opponents. But the L6 faction bonus with 15% TM manipulation will throw your timing off. Been there, done that. Can't recommend to try it, unless of course you got your own L9 datacron.
I honestly couldnt care less about you moving up or down. I, like many players see the fun in GAC diminishing a lot at the moment. It's for sure not because of the uncertainties. I won't be compete within my current skill ranking if I can't handle uncertainties. What worries me is the very fact GAC wins now are determined by wallets rather than by skill and game knowledge. Maybe things will get better in few months, when datacrons are all over the places. But right now, I don't see datacrons do any good to the game.
So you counter datacrons vs datacrons, so what? You are still looking at game mechanisms to find counters. It's the same old-fashioned approach, only with the difference it gates the vast majority of players from participating in theorycrafting because only whales can affort a shipload of the new toys.
Btw. you can't counter Rey ult dmg L9 with mirror. Because Rey mirror is all about timing your ult after your opponents. But the L6 faction bonus with 15% TM manipulation will throw your timing off. Been there, done that. Can't recommend to try it, unless of course you got your own L9 datacron.
I honestly couldnt care less about you moving up or down. I, like many players see the fun in GAC diminishing a lot at the moment. It's for sure not because of the uncertainties. I won't be compete within my current skill ranking if I can't handle uncertainties. What worries me is the very fact GAC wins now are determined by wallets rather than by skill and game knowledge. Maybe things will get better in few months, when datacrons are all over the places. But right now, I don't see datacrons do any good to the game.