Firstly, Just as I said - It is very easy to argue why it is gambling. Look at my post as food for thought, no more no less.
They key here is the mechanism upon which the game is built. Specifically using the RNG as 'captain' of my argument was a poor choice. I agree. It is more about how it is designed around the same very principles as casino gambling (specifically slot games).
Uh how else is a computer going to determine chances of winning eh Mr. wizard? The only captain of your argument are the voices in your head, talk to any dogs lately? You might be a candidate for a psych eval, you are seriously a few fries short of a happy meal.
Jedi_Yoda, you are being pretty rude to Jespitos. He just wants to stimulate an interesting discussion, and you're suggesting that he's mentally ill. Disagree if you want, but please do so respectfully. Thanks.
+1
And @BentWookiee please don't discuss sex & drugs on the forum. I think there's some rule somewhere about something -ha
@BentWookiee I think we're in agreement - you may have misuderstood me. My post was in direct response to those who were simply arguing, quote, 'Gambling indicates that someone has a chance to put money into a game with the possibility of ending up with more money than they started'. Of course the OP was not presenting anything groundbreaking; it may however be new to some people on this forum...
I am not here to complain. I just find this an interesting topic, and wanted to share my thoughts. But I think games such as SWGOH will catch the eye of regulators in EU and the states rather sooner than later.
Absolutely agree and look forward to it.
I have no problem with the freemium model, but these products are a form of gambling, they should be properly regulated, including requiring odds to be disclosed, and all possible steps taken to keep minors away from them. None of that is happening now.
BTW, this is already starting to happen in Asia.
It's especially evident in the chromium packs and similar mechanics. Just because its not falling under monetary gambling that is currently regulated doesn't mean it isn't gambling. Given the amount of money changing hands and the amount of effort involved in making the slots as addicting as possible on freemiuim games, I would be shocked if we didn't at least see a required disclosure of odds in the next few years. Governments react glacially slowly to new things but they'll catch on eventually.
the basic points have been made before, and I largely agree with you. I do think there will eventually be a regulatory crackdown. It seems likely to happen in the EU before the U.S., but eventually here too, similar to what is currently happening in DFS. For those who say this is different since there is no monetary reward I think miss the point. For example, the aurodium packs. You are paying for the chance to unlock a full character. That character is a good. Something you hope to obtain, virtual or not. If this were regulated, EA would need to disclose the odds of obtaining that good. But as it is, we can just speculate on the odds, and EA is free to change the odds whenever they choose.
This game is definitely based on gambling algorithms. Those who disagree simply don't understand. The "sim" button may as well have a "spin" label on it. It works exactly the same way. The currency the players spend may be virtual (FtP) or real (PtP), but the payout from this fancy slot machine is always virtual in the form of gear, shards, credits, xp, etc. Add in the occasional flashy screen reward from leveling up, gearing up, and starring up to stimulate the players' pleasure centers ... oh yeah, that feels good!
The random nature of the farm system is exactly the same as Skinner's box. It's operant conditioning at it's finest. Psych 101. Keep pushing the button until you get what you want.
I still love the game. But it's definitely a gambling machine.
I agree. Whenever you use math and human nature to create artificial shortages it is gambling. The human mind just can't fight probabilities, it just repeats any action to say it defeated those impossible odds. Lol, we are getting to rent the beads, and they are getting Manhattan.
People seem desperate to prove that this game isn't a form of gambling. OP states the case very succinctly, without bias to either side. It is the wild west right now, and eventually someone is going to decide the people need to be protected. As a staunch libertarian, I say to each his own, but as the OP states, regulation will come.
The use of artificial currency like crystals is also straight out of the gambling psychology cookbook: it's designed to abstract away the fact that you are spending money. Casinos use chips.
Casinos used to put super-cheap buffets in the back that you could eat at without gambling, but you had to walk past all the slot machines to get to them. We get 5 free bronzium packs spaced out in 20 minute intervals.
BTW this is actually one of the better games in terms of not being super reliant on gambling. There are others that are much, much worse.
I quit the last game I played regularly before this one because there was literally no way to get the top items you needed without massive gambling. Think about this game if all the best characters were chromium only and you only had a 1% chance to get them.
This game is definitely based on gambling algorithms. Those who disagree simply don't understand. The "sim" button may as well have a "spin" label on it. It works exactly the same way. The currency the players spend may be virtual (FtP) or real (PtP), but the payout from this fancy slot machine is always virtual in the form of gear, shards, credits, xp, etc. Add in the occasional flashy screen reward from leveling up, gearing up, and starring up to stimulate the players' pleasure centers ... oh yeah, that feels good!
The random nature of the farm system is exactly the same as Skinner's box. It's operant conditioning at it's finest. Psych 101. Keep pushing the button until you get what you want.
I still love the game. But it's definitely a gambling machine.
Whether it is really gambling or not, is actually moot. Let's call that clickbait.
I think the long arm of the law will catch-up with what's going on with games like this soon. You heard it here first... (EDIT: for the umpteenth time :-))
I'm not sure I understand where you believe a regularitory body would intervene. If there was some legislation drafted to oversee the RNG of this game are you suggesting that the government would determine if Dooku was really granting 15% dodge rating as advertised?
I guess the benefit of that would be the pleas to "nerf Dooku" could be directed at elected representatives rather than pollute these discussion threads
Age old argument where people say a word is defined by laws that regulate or punish.
More college and less gaming is needed to break that cycle.
Gambling was only called gambling recently ...relatively. Game of chance was the original wording. Now everyone that posted agrees this is a game of chance.
Firstly, Just as I said - It is very easy to argue why it is gambling. Look at my post as food for thought, no more no less.
They key here is the mechanism upon which the game is built. Specifically using the RNG as 'captain' of my argument was a poor choice. I agree. It is more about how it is designed around the same very principles as casino gambling (specifically slot games).
Uh how else is a computer going to determine chances of winning eh Mr. wizard? The only captain of your argument are the voices in your head, talk to any dogs lately? You might be a candidate for a psych eval, you are seriously a few fries short of a happy meal.
Jedi_Yoda, you are being pretty rude to Jespitos. He just wants to stimulate an interesting discussion, and you're suggesting that he's mentally ill. Disagree if you want, but please do so respectfully. Thanks.
He did not cross the line. No where was anyone called JarJar.....
I think you make some interesting points. I agree that it is gambling, but I think that at the same time it's not gambling in the traditional sense. The things that make it non-traditional gambling are that gambles don't result in financial gain and that the basic functions of the game don't require gambling (unlike slots, casino black jack, etc). I think it is for those non-traditional gambling "features" that the game will never actually run the risk of being regulated by governments (at the least the U.S. government, which governs nothing).
Confounding though are the points that it essentially does allow underage gambling and that it exploits gambling addicts. Def seems, at least in the latter, a legal gray area.
I'm actually more worried about non RNG based games preying on little kids with the fancy unicorn and fairies kind of IAP games. Negligible investment, targeted at kids and they keep on advertising similar games. My daughter ended up installing 30+ such games starting with the 1st one that was downloaded. Luckily, I have enough sense to block any kind of financial transactions with passwords. Many just have no idea.
This game and the like, I don't think many kids are spending on.
Replies
+1
And @BentWookiee please don't discuss sex & drugs on the forum. I think there's some rule somewhere about something -ha
Absolutely agree and look forward to it.
I have no problem with the freemium model, but these products are a form of gambling, they should be properly regulated, including requiring odds to be disclosed, and all possible steps taken to keep minors away from them. None of that is happening now.
BTW, this is already starting to happen in Asia.
The random nature of the farm system is exactly the same as Skinner's box. It's operant conditioning at it's finest. Psych 101. Keep pushing the button until you get what you want.
I still love the game. But it's definitely a gambling machine.
Casinos used to put super-cheap buffets in the back that you could eat at without gambling, but you had to walk past all the slot machines to get to them. We get 5 free bronzium packs spaced out in 20 minute intervals.
BTW this is actually one of the better games in terms of not being super reliant on gambling. There are others that are much, much worse.
I quit the last game I played regularly before this one because there was literally no way to get the top items you needed without massive gambling. Think about this game if all the best characters were chromium only and you only had a 1% chance to get them.
Well put. In about 1/10 of the words I needed
Real money auction house in Diablo 3 almost killed that game...
I'm not sure I understand where you believe a regularitory body would intervene. If there was some legislation drafted to oversee the RNG of this game are you suggesting that the government would determine if Dooku was really granting 15% dodge rating as advertised?
I guess the benefit of that would be the pleas to "nerf Dooku" could be directed at elected representatives rather than pollute these discussion threads
More college and less gaming is needed to break that cycle.
Gambling was only called gambling recently ...relatively. Game of chance was the original wording. Now everyone that posted agrees this is a game of chance.
Myth busted!,,
He did not cross the line. No where was anyone called JarJar.....
Confounding though are the points that it essentially does allow underage gambling and that it exploits gambling addicts. Def seems, at least in the latter, a legal gray area.
This game and the like, I don't think many kids are spending on.