Are we still pretending?

Replies

  • @Lumiya

    You're talking about 'keeping your GP low', which isn't the issue, as it's not possible or cost effective. The issue is 'artificially not inflating your GP'. These are not the same.

    It's an issue in many many games. At its worst it's called min-maxing. Maximum punch for the minimum weight.

    It makes players build their accounts in a certain way and in my opinion it has no place in SWGOH. I really don't want to be like that again.

    "Getting those new Characters like Starkiller or the Inquisitor might also prove difficult if you need 4-5 R5 toons just to get them if you want to keep your GP slim."

    Yeah sorry Lumiya, this sounds harsh. However, this clearly shows me you don't understand the complications of GP match making. Starkiller is super cost effective. He's massively beneficial to those watching their GP. If we went back to GP match making, he'd be one of the most popular cost effective strategies.

    "The "underdogs" do not stand a better chance with what's happening to GAC right now."

    Clearly it's a case by case situation. You can't blanket say they do or they don't. The chances are the overdog hasn't been as active. In this case the match up won't be balanced. However, in the case of both accounts being as active, in most cases I favour the underdog for sure.

    "including the shrinking of Kyber and those players falling."

    Well you're describing me. I'm not playing easier opponents. I'm playing the same opponents just in A2 rather than K4.

    Remember we play those closest to us in the rankings. So it's made things tougher to stay in our divisions. It hasn't made our match ups any tougher. We're still playing the same people, it's just harder to move up or stay where we are.
  • To folks who would like to bring GP back into matchmaking, datacrons are not accounted for in GP, at all. Take a moment and let that sink in.

    And "datacrons should be removed" won't be a valid counter argument here, because they are here to stay regardless of how we feel about them.

    Yes, sadly they are here to stay and suck out the fun in what used to be a great part of the game.
  • I lost to a player with 2m less GP. GP doesn't matter anymore.
  • Screerider wrote: »
    I lost to a player with 2m less GP. GP doesn't matter anymore.

    Yep, it’s all about garbage-crons now.
  • @Lumiya

    You're talking about 'keeping your GP low', which isn't the issue, as it's not possible or cost effective. The issue is 'artificially not inflating your GP'. These are not the same.

    It's an issue in many many games. At its worst it's called min-maxing. Maximum punch for the minimum weight.

    It makes players build their accounts in a certain way and in my opinion it has no place in SWGOH. I really don't want to be like that again.

    "Getting those new Characters like Starkiller or the Inquisitor might also prove difficult if you need 4-5 R5 toons just to get them if you want to keep your GP slim."

    Yeah sorry Lumiya, this sounds harsh. However, this clearly shows me you don't understand the complications of GP match making. Starkiller is super cost effective. He's massively beneficial to those watching their GP. If we went back to GP match making, he'd be one of the most popular cost effective strategies.

    "The "underdogs" do not stand a better chance with what's happening to GAC right now."

    Clearly it's a case by case situation. You can't blanket say they do or they don't. The chances are the overdog hasn't been as active. In this case the match up won't be balanced. However, in the case of both accounts being as active, in most cases I favour the underdog for sure.

    "including the shrinking of Kyber and those players falling."

    Well you're describing me. I'm not playing easier opponents. I'm playing the same opponents just in A2 rather than K4.

    Remember we play those closest to us in the rankings. So it's made things tougher to stay in our divisions. It hasn't made our match ups any tougher. We're still playing the same people, it's just harder to move up or stay where we are.

    Excuse me but no, I understand very well how the GP based matchmaking works! Don't even try to diminsh what I said just because it doesn't meet how you view it. And please don't split hairs because of my use of "keeping it low" when you very well know what I mean and that english is not my first language so I may not have the absolute fine differences of phrasing or wording one uses to express something.
    Splitting hairs is the worst one can do when one knows exactly what it's about or meant in a discussion. I think everyone knows how it works when one wants to minmax an account... at least I do.
    With keeping low I meant exactly what you said, not unnecessarily inflating a roster etc... now that we have that out of the way:
    Minmaxing is only possible to a certain degree under the circumstances how the game is now, especially for newer players, as provided in my examples. You either try to get to 4M GP to get access to certain toons and modes, or you are seriously hurting yourself.
    I also did not say that this should be implemented again instead of the new system. More like an additional filter that prevents extreme mismatches.


    The match ups did not stay the same. Just because they are for you doesn't mean they stayed the same for everyone else.
    I do definitely face even bigger accounts, all those that fell down, I even provided evidence for that or otherwise I would not suddenly get kicked down so much from where I was.
    There is again the difference of someone who falls down and someone who is where the other one lands. You are the first I am the latter. And it definitely changes more for those whom now face those that have fallen as it changes things for those that were the ones to fall. There are more than enough people not facing the same accounts anymore but even bigger ones.
    You saw the shift yourself so of course if bigger accounts fall down it's inevitable that they also face those where they fell to until those fall down. If for example 1000 players fall to A2, whom do you think they get matched with? It will be a mixture of those, that already were there and those, that also fell down until those that were there got kicked out if they were smaller/weaker. The domino effect I was talking about in the other thread.

    But all this doesn't even matter, because the biggest reason why minmaxing to "keep" your GP "low" to win in GAC would not work anymore how it used to is because it is not the same system anymore. Ever since the 50/50 system got implemented you are not going to win more and therefor you are not going to get better rewards, so there is no minmaxing in GAC.
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • I'm going to stop. I just fundamentally disagree with you.

    I honestly think your thinking is floored and your measures are unnecessary.

    The only issue I'm going to reply on is the 'Splitting hairs'. I'm absolutely not splitting hairs.

    There's a big difference between managing your GP and deliberately keeping your GP low. Your earlier posts were describing keeping your GP deliberately low, had nothing to do with managing your GP and nothing to do with your English.
  • Gifafi
    5981 posts Member
    If cg changed the designation to “skill/effort” rating maybe these threads would go away
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • TVF
    33055 posts Member
    Gifafi wrote: »
    If cg changed the designation to “skill/effort” rating maybe these threads would go away

    Hahahaha....nah.
    The CGDF requests that CG takes away everyone's Extra Life Charity Event rewards. We don't deserve them. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • As someone with nearly 5m gp sitting in carbonite because I gave up on the game and especially gac for quite a while I'm seeing a lot of people with smaller rosters like 1 - 2m gp smashing through me especially in 3v3. When there are 10 points that decide who wins or losses I see that as fair.
  • IronCross wrote: »
    Screerider wrote: »
    I lost to a player with 2m less GP. GP doesn't matter anymore.

    Yep, it’s all about garbage-crons now.
    An L9 LV CD-cron was in play. I probably misplayed the Fennec counter as well. Never done it. If only there was a place to practice.
  • IronCross
    915 posts Member
    edited November 15
    Muireach wrote: »
    As someone with nearly 5m gp sitting in carbonite because I gave up on the game and especially gac for quite a while I'm seeing a lot of people with smaller rosters like 1 - 2m gp smashing through me especially in 3v3. When there are 10 points that decide who wins or losses I see that as fair.

    10 points is my total score in 3v3. My opponents always get a full clear too. Lol
    They do nothing and full score and I attack once with Wat. Great system
  • Screerider wrote: »
    IronCross wrote: »
    Screerider wrote: »
    I lost to a player with 2m less GP. GP doesn't matter anymore.

    Yep, it’s all about garbage-crons now.
    An L9 LV CD-cron was in play. I probably misplayed the Fennec counter as well. Never done it. If only there was a place to practice.

    With LV's DC active and BAM's dusted, I cannot imagine Fennec winning vs a proper ult LV team right now.
  • TVF
    33055 posts Member
    Can't wait for 2023!
    The CGDF requests that CG takes away everyone's Extra Life Charity Event rewards. We don't deserve them. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • IronCross wrote: »
    Muireach wrote: »
    As someone with nearly 5m gp sitting in carbonite because I gave up on the game and especially gac for quite a while I'm seeing a lot of people with smaller rosters like 1 - 2m gp smashing through me especially in 3v3. When there are 10 points that decide who wins or losses I see that as fair.

    10 points is my total score in 3v3. My opponents always get a full clear too. Lol
    They do nothing and full score and I attack once with Wat. Great system
    You could always set a defence?
  • Ghost666
    164 posts Member
    edited November 16
    Bracket for today i have an opp taht is 3M GP...but has 2GLs (at R9) and 35 Relics. (I have 0 and 32 at 5M GP)
    I am outclassed by a player that did his best to get an optimal roster...i am probably going to lose and i am ok with it...i will try anyway.
    BUT...and this is actually the key of the discussion...THIS PLAYER would be almost unbetable in a GP based system...and even GP difference limits would make him get very good matches. As it is, he will probably climb in ranks until he meets a balance in terms of GL/Relic toons...and will have to fight for it...(BUT get better rewards than me, to benefit his good roster management)
  • wharp
    143 posts Member
    edited November 16
    Whale or big account who don't care about GAC, they will fall and make a wall, if you maintain your win/lose ratio, you will move through eventually. Think about what it is right behind this wall, people won against them, if you could not win against your opponent, could you win against people behind ?

    The current matchmaking is fine as it is. Matchmaking as it were, GP only, was simpler but dumb, GP is a number to indicate how much you have upgraded a character. IMO, GP should be hided because people tends to look at GP only, which is stupid, you just had to look at the first message....
    Yes, there is too many post complaining about GP gap !

    Why GP matchmaking is stupid? For example:
    • All mods have the same GP rating, a 6* +32 speed arrow will give you as much as a 6* +32 accuracy arrow
    • If GP is the only factor, does it mean that HY+WAT only can beat a solo CUP (same mods/gear/relic/level) ?
    • Datacron, no GP
    • You will be pooled with a bunch of random people having the same GP, there will be no ladder anymore and this game mode will be annoying again

    PvP is about competitiveness not RNG.
  • Next opponent has 3 more GLs (including a LV CD datacron) and a Swolo and a Malgus. And is 1 million LESS GP. Aye Carumba.
  • Why are we counting GPs at all?
  • @Lumiya

    You're talking about 'keeping your GP low', which isn't the issue, as it's not possible or cost effective. The issue is 'artificially not inflating your GP'. These are not the same.

    It's an issue in many many games. At its worst it's called min-maxing. Maximum punch for the minimum weight.

    It makes players build their accounts in a certain way and in my opinion it has no place in SWGOH. I really don't want to be like that again.

    "Getting those new Characters like Starkiller or the Inquisitor might also prove difficult if you need 4-5 R5 toons just to get them if you want to keep your GP slim."

    Yeah sorry Lumiya, this sounds harsh. However, this clearly shows me you don't understand the complications of GP match making. Starkiller is super cost effective. He's massively beneficial to those watching their GP. If we went back to GP match making, he'd be one of the most popular cost effective strategies.

    "The "underdogs" do not stand a better chance with what's happening to GAC right now."

    Clearly it's a case by case situation. You can't blanket say they do or they don't. The chances are the overdog hasn't been as active. In this case the match up won't be balanced. However, in the case of both accounts being as active, in most cases I favour the underdog for sure.

    "including the shrinking of Kyber and those players falling."

    Well you're describing me. I'm not playing easier opponents. I'm playing the same opponents just in A2 rather than K4.

    Remember we play those closest to us in the rankings. So it's made things tougher to stay in our divisions. It hasn't made our match ups any tougher. We're still playing the same people, it's just harder to move up or stay where we are.

    There is 0 reason to "watch your GP" now. In fact, the entirety of the game is about maximizing GP. And as crummy as some g8 ancient teams can be, I've used them for clean-up on occasion.
  • TVF wrote: »
    Can't wait for 2023!

    but game will be dead for sure by then!
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • @Lumiya

    You're talking about 'keeping your GP low', which isn't the issue, as it's not possible or cost effective. The issue is 'artificially not inflating your GP'. These are not the same.

    It's an issue in many many games. At its worst it's called min-maxing. Maximum punch for the minimum weight.

    It makes players build their accounts in a certain way and in my opinion it has no place in SWGOH. I really don't want to be like that again.

    "Getting those new Characters like Starkiller or the Inquisitor might also prove difficult if you need 4-5 R5 toons just to get them if you want to keep your GP slim."

    Yeah sorry Lumiya, this sounds harsh. However, this clearly shows me you don't understand the complications of GP match making. Starkiller is super cost effective. He's massively beneficial to those watching their GP. If we went back to GP match making, he'd be one of the most popular cost effective strategies.

    "The "underdogs" do not stand a better chance with what's happening to GAC right now."

    Clearly it's a case by case situation. You can't blanket say they do or they don't. The chances are the overdog hasn't been as active. In this case the match up won't be balanced. However, in the case of both accounts being as active, in most cases I favour the underdog for sure.

    "including the shrinking of Kyber and those players falling."

    Well you're describing me. I'm not playing easier opponents. I'm playing the same opponents just in A2 rather than K4.

    Remember we play those closest to us in the rankings. So it's made things tougher to stay in our divisions. It hasn't made our match ups any tougher. We're still playing the same people, it's just harder to move up or stay where we are.

    There is 0 reason to "watch your GP" now. In fact, the entirety of the game is about maximizing GP. And as crummy as some g8 ancient teams can be, I've used them for clean-up on occasion.

    This is a whole discussion about Lumiya's proposed changes to GAC. This I argued would make us watch our GP.


    ...........So you're liking posts that are critical of me, even if they're a misunderstanding?..............Ok.

  • Datacrons are not here to stay.. They can be dumped anytime. As seen with the the Great Nerfing, anything can be changed, even dumb ideas like Datacrons..
  • TVF
    33055 posts Member
    SotaDraken wrote: »
    Datacrons are not here to stay.. They can be dumped anytime. As seen with the the Great Nerfing, anything can be changed, even dumb ideas like Datacrons..

    I too wish for things, no matter how very unlikely they are...
    The CGDF requests that CG takes away everyone's Extra Life Charity Event rewards. We don't deserve them. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • SotaDraken
    378 posts Member
    edited November 16
    People can say that DCs are here to stay and I can say that DCs aren't.

    Until proven otherwise from CG, (like a commitment to the horrible game design, which they won't do because they want wiggle room with their product) my statement is as true as the next person's.


    Only time will tell, @TVF
  • TVF
    33055 posts Member
    Sure, you can say it.
    The CGDF requests that CG takes away everyone's Extra Life Charity Event rewards. We don't deserve them. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • I don’t watch my GP, but I’m careful with how I allocate my resources. I see no reason to upgrade characters for the sake of increasing GP if it’s not doing my roster any good
  • Guild might appreciate it tho.
  • TVF
    33055 posts Member
    I assume my guild appreciates me gearing useful toons upon unlock over wasting it on useless toons.
    The CGDF requests that CG takes away everyone's Extra Life Charity Event rewards. We don't deserve them. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    Sure, you can say it.

    Glad we agree that it ain't just wishing..

    😉
  • TVF wrote: »
    I assume my guild appreciates me gearing useful toons upon unlock over wasting it on useless toons.

    It's not exactly either or. You can always upgrade your useless toons up to the point they start asking for gear you want to put on useful toons instead. The extra GP will help with TW and TB, and heck, might even help break a tie in GAC.
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