New TB no GET 1?

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scuba
12924 posts Member
What is up with this?
I get adding new GET currency, however do the developers really believe that GET1 is no longer needed?
This makes no sense as units still need the gear that you can get with GET1.
Is this the make a step forward with one change to gear economy and make another step backwards with a different change?

Replies

  • scuba wrote: »
    What is up with this?
    I get adding new GET currency, however do the developers really believe that GET1 is no longer needed?
    This makes no sense as units still need the gear that you can get with GET1.
    Is this the make a step forward with one change to gear economy and make another step backwards with a different change?

    I posted a question about this earlier. I’m hoping it’s just an oversight. Those currencies buy completely separate things. Both of which are excluded from the doubling they announced.
  • If you are doing the new TB then your need for GET1 shouldn’t be as bad.
    Forget the gear crunch, why can't we sim the Sith raid yet?
  • This is a resource management game, guess guilds will have to decide which path to take.
    Forget the gear crunch, why can't we sim the Sith raid yet?
  • ShadowJediKnight
    77 posts Member
    edited November 17
    I'm glad you brought this up. I glossed over it when I read it.

    I have about 5 members in my guild that have worked on Inquisitors. And I have about 4 or 5 members working on Jabba requirements (not the same players). My Inquisitors players are hoping to add Reva to their rosters in time. But should I punish the rest of the guild and their gear needs by doing the new TB and cutting out their GET1 income? Or should I punish the players who've worked on Jabba and the Inquisitors by preventing them from acquiring what they've worked towards?

    Removing GET1 currency from the new TB is not going to encourage other players to build those characters. It's only going to increase the frustration of players and push them away from the game. They basically have to choose whether to work on these characters or continue getting this currency..

    Edit: typo
    Post edited by ShadowJediKnight on
  • You can't complain about missing GET1 in favour of GET3 until you see what GET3 purchases.

    If GET3 can purchase everything you used to purchase with GET1, then there's no problem at all.

    I admit it looks ... uncertain, and possibly bad. But until we see the GET3 store we really don't know anything about whether or not GET3 is an adequate replacement for GET1.

    Even Mk4 Commlinks (which I also purchase with GET1 occasionally) might do okay if GET3 purchases more of everything you need from GET1 except the purples (of which the Commlinks are the only ones that are not better sourced elsewhere). In that case, you need fewer g12 purchases with Shard Shop currency and buy every commlink that drops there (if you aren't doing that already). You could be better off on g12 with GET3 and no worse off on Commlinks.

    We'll see. It will be interesting.
  • If the gear rewards for the new TB include a bunch of the pieces that people normally use GET1 for, then I’m fine with no GET1 currency from it.
  • scuba
    12924 posts Member
    You can't complain about missing GET1 in favour of GET3 until you see what GET3 purchases.

    If GET3 can purchase everything you used to purchase with GET1, then there's no problem at all.

    I admit it looks ... uncertain, and possibly bad. But until we see the GET3 store we really don't know anything about whether or not GET3 is an adequate replacement for GET1.

    Even Mk4 Commlinks (which I also purchase with GET1 occasionally) might do okay if GET3 purchases more of everything you need from GET1 except the purples (of which the Commlinks are the only ones that are not better sourced elsewhere). In that case, you need fewer g12 purchases with Shard Shop currency and buy every commlink that drops there (if you aren't doing that already). You could be better off on g12 with GET3 and no worse off on Commlinks.

    We'll see. It will be interesting.

    "Hope for the best, plan for the worst."
    Time and again in this game this thought process is needed. Mods 1.0, 2.0, str raid rewards rework, etc.

    If what you say ends up being true great, however as always "they" don't communicate enough so I only have what they said is going to happen, which as the RA is written the goal of the gear changes is actually not even close to being met and actually made worse by the information we have.
  • scuba
    12924 posts Member
    If the gear rewards for the new TB include a bunch of the pieces that people normally use GET1 for, then I’m fine with no GET1 currency from it.

    I have yet to see gear rewards from any tb/TW/raid be consistently helpful.
  • I would hope in adding GET3 that they also separate them out into different store tabs.
    Also I’m less concerned about the gear than I am about possibly locking out hyoda. Forcing a guild to choose to give up one run a month so new recruits can get a required character, or forcing younger accounts to sacrifice one of the GLs to be in a guild with better rewards just seems off to me.
    But as others have pointed out, it dependsvon what is in the GET 3 store really.
    Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for life.
  • scuba wrote: »
    as the RA is written the goal of the gear changes is actually not even close to being met and actually made worse by the information we have.
    At least 50% of the goals are met. There are 2 goals, one being helping new players. The changes will help new players a lot. With accelerated farming, it was twice as fast than before to get old characters to 7*, now it will be twice as fast as before to get old characters to G12. This is awesome for players who want to get old journey guide characters, for which you only need G12 or less.

  • herd_nerfer
    399 posts Member
    edited November 17
    scuba wrote: »
    ...as the RA is written the goal of the gear changes is actually not even close to being met and actually made worse by the information we have.

    From my perspective this is categorically false. Can you help me understand your perspective? I feel like I'm missing something if what you're saying is true.
    To provide a consistent experience to all users, please follow the established convention and structure all communications in the form of a complaint.
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as the RA is written the goal of the gear changes is actually not even close to being met and actually made worse by the information we have.
    At least 50% of the goals are met. There are 2 goals, one being helping new players. The changes will help new players a lot. With accelerated farming, it was twice as fast than before to get old characters to 7*, now it will be twice as fast as before to get old characters to G12. This is awesome for players who want to get old journey guide characters, for which you only need G12 or less.

    For old characters prior to kyro release yes. Any character released after these Economy updates do zero to help the farm as every single toon requires hundreds of kyro salavage starting at G8.
  • RTS
    674 posts Member
    I'm glad you brought this up. I glossed over it when I read it.

    I have about 5 members in my guild that have worked on Inquisitors. And I have about 4 or 5 members working on Jabba requirements (not the same players). My Inquisitors players are hoping to add Reva to their rosters in time. But should I punish the rest of the guild and their gear needs by doing the new TB and cutting out their GET1 income? Or should I punish the players who've worked on Jabba and the Inquisitors by preventing them from acquiring what they've worked towards?

    Removing GET1 currency from the new TB is not going to encourage other players to build those characters. It's only going to increase the frustration of players and push them away from the game. They basically have to choose whether to work on these characters or continue getting this currency..

    Edit: typo

    It's a resource management game - there's always going to be hard choices to make, that's the entire point of the game.
  • Always? It's not like we can't run the old raids anymore because we run the new ones. GET1 was included in Geo TB. There is less GET1 in Geo TB than Hoth, but the offsets are plenty to overcome this reduction (for most).

    Also, we don't know the rewards table for the new TB nor what can be bought with GET3, so we don't even know if a choice is being foisted on us.
  • scuba
    12924 posts Member
    edited November 17
    scuba wrote: »
    ...as the RA is written the goal of the gear changes is actually not even close to being met and actually made worse by the information we have.

    From my perspective this is categorically false. Can you help me understand your perspective? I feel like I'm missing something if what you're saying is true.
    Bringing a Marquee Character up to viability, in a game where strong squads are often Relic 5+, is a longer road than when we first introduced Marquees many years ago. These changes will help shorten that journey and get characters up to snuff so you can feel confident in using them in a variety of modes sooner.

    Nothing in the changes mentioned in the RA will help get a marquee to R5+ faster.

    My marquee units are mostly sitting at g11 awaiting shards not long after the marquee event, and once I do get them to 7* they will need the gear not affected by the changes that are the real gear bottleneck in the game.
    I also say the changes will slow this down with doing the new TB as they are not showing you will get GET1 which is a source of the left side of G12.

    The doubling of most of the gear they have targeted will not really help players after certain point. Sure it will help a new player, however personally I only farm G12 and kyro. Everything else generally comes from shipments, challenges or drops from the farming of G12, kyro and shards.
  • I do understand the worries some people have about Kyros etc, I am a bit sceptical myself, but I think that if you don't really need to farm for so long for the other gear anymore you have more energy/time to farm Kyros and the rest. While it might not make much of a difference, it might make it maybe a bit easier. I still have many characters that need comlinks etc, so if that goes faster that would already be great! I think we will have to wait and see how it plays out.

    All in all I like the RA and what has been announced.
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • Starslayer
    2000 posts Member
    edited November 17
    scuba wrote: »
    Nothing in the changes mentioned in the RA will help get a marquee to R5+ faster.
    Nothing will help you get a marquee to R5 faster. You’re probably not the category of players CG wants to help.
    scuba wrote: »
    personally I only farm G12 and kyro. Everything else generally comes from shipments(…)
    Aren’t there G12+ gear that you might buy from shipments instead using the same currency ?

  • scuba
    12924 posts Member
    Starslayer wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Nothing in the changes mentioned in the RA will help get a marquee to R5+ faster.
    Nothing will help you get a marquee to R5 faster. You’re probably not the category of players CG wants to help.
    scuba wrote: »
    personally I only farm G12 and kyro. Everything else generally comes from shipments(…)
    Aren’t there G12+ gear that you might buy from shipments instead using the same currency ?
    Nothing will help you get a marquee to R5 faster. You’re probably not the category of players CG wants to help.
    I agree, however I am just pointing out that the RA states/implies that the changes being made will.
    Yes it could help player get to G12 faster, but that was not what was stated/implied
    Aren’t there G12+ gear that you might buy from shipments instead using the same currency ?
    guild shipments doesn't proved G12 parts, which other than Mk4 Comlinks I don't buy guild store stuff in GET or GA shipments.
  • scuba
    12924 posts Member
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as the RA is written the goal of the gear changes is actually not even close to being met and actually made worse by the information we have.
    At least 50% of the goals are met. There are 2 goals, one being helping new players. The changes will help new players a lot. With accelerated farming, it was twice as fast than before to get old characters to 7*, now it will be twice as fast as before to get old characters to G12. This is awesome for players who want to get old journey guide characters, for which you only need G12 or less.

    For old characters prior to kyro release yes. Any character released after these Economy updates do zero to help the farm as every single toon requires hundreds of kyro salavage starting at G8.

    Could we agree that for most players, ‘zero help’ is a sizeable exaggeration, considering recent characters still need carbs and guns on top of kyros ?

    Yes they still need carbs and guns, however I personally don't farm either of those anymore. Gear update 1.0 helped a lot with that.
  • I still run short of Carbs and g11 finishers.

    Double lots and/or half cost (same lot size) of those will definitely help me.

    As for Kyros, I farm with 50 crystal refreshes every day on 7B (shock prods), purchase computers with GET, and purchase any additional gyros directly for crystals. Between these sources I do fine, getting on average 1 new relic toon/ week. As long as they're releasing fewer than 40 new toons per year, I'll make noticeable progress on my back catalog of toons.

    Would it be nice to get some more kyros? Sure. And if I did I'd be growing my crystal collection at a pretty fast clip since my major crystal expense would be gone. If that happened, I'd be free to just buy a couple hundred shards of the latest marquee from shipments.

    And if THAT happened, there would be very little difference between myself and the whales.

    Would I, personally, love to have a stockpile of 20k kyros of each type? Sure.

    Would it be good for the game if I got new toons FtP at the same rate as the whales? No, of course not. Someone has to pay for this game. If everyone spent $20 on their copy to begin playing we might end up at the same amount of money spent as the current system, but people don't do that. That's not the model. And even if it was, that would give CG an incentive to stop supporting this game so that they could make a brand new game and collect your $20 again.

    I have my criticisms of the current model of monetization of mobile games, but having the payments roll in over time keeps CG willing to pay the electric bill for the servers. If that means I spend my crystals on Kyros and wait 2.5 months for my new toons to hit 7*, I can live with that.
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    as the RA is written the goal of the gear changes is actually not even close to being met and actually made worse by the information we have.
    At least 50% of the goals are met. There are 2 goals, one being helping new players. The changes will help new players a lot. With accelerated farming, it was twice as fast than before to get old characters to 7*, now it will be twice as fast as before to get old characters to G12. This is awesome for players who want to get old journey guide characters, for which you only need G12 or less.

    For old characters prior to kyro release yes. Any character released after these Economy updates do zero to help the farm as every single toon requires hundreds of kyro salavage starting at G8.

    Could we agree that for most players, ‘zero help’ is a sizeable exaggeration, considering recent characters still need carbs and guns on top of kyros ?

    No, we cannot agree as P2 of the gear updates do nothing to address the kyro crunch we’ve felt since CG introduced them to the game. Any character released since the introduction of kyrotechs has need at minimum, 200 kyro salvage, with many settling around 400. So no, this gear update is not addressing that at all, and since kyro’s are needed at G8, it’s not helping that part of the grind in regards to kyro’s. That’s not an exaggeration.

    For example my Ben Solo is stuck at G10 because of….kyro’s. Prior to that? Stuck at G9 because of….kyro’s. Then when he gets to G12 he will be stuck there because of…kyro’s.
  • scuba
    12924 posts Member
    I still run short of Carbs and g11 finishers.

    Double lots and/or half cost (same lot size) of those will definitely help me.

    As for Kyros, I farm with 50 crystal refreshes every day on 7B (shock prods), purchase computers with GET, and purchase any additional gyros directly for crystals. Between these sources I do fine, getting on average 1 new relic toon/ week. As long as they're releasing fewer than 40 new toons per year, I'll make noticeable progress on my back catalog of toons.

    Would it be nice to get some more kyros? Sure. And if I did I'd be growing my crystal collection at a pretty fast clip since my major crystal expense would be gone. If that happened, I'd be free to just buy a couple hundred shards of the latest marquee from shipments.

    And if THAT happened, there would be very little difference between myself and the whales.

    Would I, personally, love to have a stockpile of 20k kyros of each type? Sure.

    Would it be good for the game if I got new toons FtP at the same rate as the whales? No, of course not. Someone has to pay for this game. If everyone spent $20 on their copy to begin playing we might end up at the same amount of money spent as the current system, but people don't do that. That's not the model. And even if it was, that would give CG an incentive to stop supporting this game so that they could make a brand new game and collect your $20 again.

    I have my criticisms of the current model of monetization of mobile games, but having the payments roll in over time keeps CG willing to pay the electric bill for the servers. If that means I spend my crystals on Kyros and wait 2.5 months for my new toons to hit 7*, I can live with that.

    I never personally said that they should get rid of all bottlenecks as I think the game needs them for many of the reasons you stated.

    I simpily pointed out that
    1. With the information in the road ahead running the new TB will reduce the flow of a current bottle neck (no GET1 to purchase gear that is needed and is bottlenecked)
    2. That the implied goal of speeding up getting to R5+ is not happening by what was released in the RA and with number 1, will actually slow down getting to R5+
  • scuba
    12924 posts Member
    Lumiya wrote: »
    I do understand the worries some people have about Kyros etc, I am a bit sceptical myself, but I think that if you don't really need to farm for so long for the other gear anymore you have more energy/time to farm Kyros and the rest.[/b[ While it might not make much of a difference, it might make it maybe a bit easier. I still have many characters that need comlinks etc, so if that goes faster that would already be great! I think we will have to wait and see how it plays out.

    All in all I like the RA and what has been announced.

    That is my point, this is where I am. I only farm kyro and shards with regular energy

    So if these changes are supposed to and I quote:
    To help Existing Players get new characters up-to-speed and usable in high-level content
    As the game has grown, so has the difficulty and requirements for many events. Bringing a Marquee Character up to viability, in a game where strong squads are often Relic 5+, is a longer road than when we first introduced Marquees many years ago. These changes will help shorten that journey and get characters up to snuff so you can feel confident in using them in a variety of modes sooner.

    How is the changes doing this if G12, kyro, and shards are not affected (I am not saying they should be) and if you lose GET1 income?
    Loss of GET1 income can actually length the journey and get characters up to snuff when up to snuff is R5+, because now G12 items (for both left and right) that could have been obtained with GET1 will now have to be farmed from nodes
  • scuba wrote: »
    How is the changes doing this if G12, kyro, and shards are not affected (I am not saying they should be) and if you lose GET1 income?
    Loss of GET1 income can actually length the journey and get characters up to snuff when up to snuff is R5+, because now G12 items (for both left and right) that could have been obtained with GET1 will now have to be farmed from nodes

    First - we don't know for sure that GET 1 is being removed. That's an assumption. Not an unreasonable one given the verbiage used, but still an assumption. Second, we haven't even seen the gear rewards for this TB yet. What if the gear rewards out-weigh what you could have bought with the 'missing' GET1? We don't know. On top of that we have no idea what the GET3 shipment offerings are going to be. Maybe they completely erase the need for GET1 - maybe you can ultimately buy more of that G12 gear with GET3 than you ever could with GET1.

    I get that you're apparently sitting on piles and piles of carbs and stun guns and mk4 comm links because your only bottleneck is kyros. When I was gearing inquisitors my bottle neck was never kyros - it was stun guns and carbs and mk4 comm links. Getting up to G12 was the challenge - getting through G12 to G13 was a familiar and practiced inconvenience, but no where near as irritating as getting stuck behind two stun guns and a carbanti or comm link.

    CG never promised to do anything about kyros. They said they were looking at it. If you honestly believe that these changes don't help people get to relics faster, I guess you're entitled to your opinion - I just don't believe the KNOWN facts support that position. You could be right about some things - but your claims are based on an assumption of things we don't know and haven't seen (and won't see until December).
    To provide a consistent experience to all users, please follow the established convention and structure all communications in the form of a complaint.
  • scuba
    12924 posts Member
    scuba wrote: »
    How is the changes doing this if G12, kyro, and shards are not affected (I am not saying they should be) and if you lose GET1 income?
    Loss of GET1 income can actually length the journey and get characters up to snuff when up to snuff is R5+, because now G12 items (for both left and right) that could have been obtained with GET1 will now have to be farmed from nodes

    First - we don't know for sure that GET 1 is being removed. That's an assumption. Not an unreasonable one given the verbiage used, but still an assumption. Second, we haven't even seen the gear rewards for this TB yet. What if the gear rewards out-weigh what you could have bought with the 'missing' GET1? We don't know. On top of that we have no idea what the GET3 shipment offerings are going to be. Maybe they completely erase the need for GET1 - maybe you can ultimately buy more of that G12 gear with GET3 than you ever could with GET1.

    I get that you're apparently sitting on piles and piles of carbs and stun guns and mk4 comm links because your only bottleneck is kyros. When I was gearing inquisitors my bottle neck was never kyros - it was stun guns and carbs and mk4 comm links. Getting up to G12 was the challenge - getting through G12 to G13 was a familiar and practiced inconvenience, but no where near as irritating as getting stuck behind two stun guns and a carbanti or comm link.

    CG never promised to do anything about kyros. They said they were looking at it. If you honestly believe that these changes don't help people get to relics faster, I guess you're entitled to your opinion - I just don't believe the KNOWN facts support that position. You could be right about some things - but your claims are based on an assumption of things we don't know and haven't seen (and won't see until December).

    My assumption is based on the information provided.
    "They" could easily come out and say one way or another if it is happening or what is being done to mitigate the effects of this.

    Hoping the gear rewards would make up for this is crazy speak. Gear rewards in any event have only been good one time and that was with the initial release of STR and then they changed it to the garbage that it is now. The best rewards in most events is the currency and is never the gear. Do they drop something good sometimes? Sure, however it is not enough to count on it as an income stream, it is a bonus.

    I never asked or said they should do anything about kyros, that was many other people.
    The first changes to the gear economy IMO greatly helped with many things as I can just focus on kyro with regular energy.
    However again with the information provided it will not help me as an existing play speed up the journey to getting marque units up to snuff.
    It is just blowing smoke.
    Will it speed up the journey to the 7* gated gear point for newer players? Sure.
    Without increasing the shard, kyro and G12 salvage income (again not saying this needs to be changed) you are not speeding the journey to r5 for me, an existing player.
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