New TB no GET 1?

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  • scuba wrote: »
    Without increasing the shard, kyro and G12 salvage income (again not saying this needs to be changed) you are not speeding the journey to r5 for me, an existing player.

    Would you call your own experience typical of most players? Without seeing your roster, I get the feeling that you're probably an outlier in terms of roster progression.
    To provide a consistent experience to all users, please follow the established convention and structure all communications in the form of a complaint.
  • scuba
    12924 posts Member
    scuba wrote: »
    Without increasing the shard, kyro and G12 salvage income (again not saying this needs to be changed) you are not speeding the journey to r5 for me, an existing player.

    Would you call your own experience typical of most players? Without seeing your roster, I get the feeling that you're probably an outlier in terms of roster progression.

    Of players that have been here since the start of the game yes, I would.

    There have been very few marquee units released in the last couple years that I couldn't take to the 7* required stopping point with in a few days, and the only thing that slowed that down was kyro.
  • scuba wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Without increasing the shard, kyro and G12 salvage income (again not saying this needs to be changed) you are not speeding the journey to r5 for me, an existing player.

    Would you call your own experience typical of most players? Without seeing your roster, I get the feeling that you're probably an outlier in terms of roster progression.

    Of players that have been here since the start of the game yes, I would.

    There have been very few marquee units released in the last couple years that I couldn't take to the 7* required stopping point with in a few days, and the only thing that slowed that down was kyro.

    See but this is the big difference. You are in the game since the beginning, an endgame player where as I am not even in the game for 2 years. Our experiences are very different. All the gear they are going to double will be absolutely needed for me and it will speed up my progression. If I don't have to spend currencies or energy for Carbantis and co, I can use that fully for other things like Kyros because until now I always have to also still farm and buy Kyros etc.
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • scuba wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    I do understand the worries some people have about Kyros etc, I am a bit sceptical myself, but I think that if you don't really need to farm for so long for the other gear anymore you have more energy/time to farm Kyros and the rest.[/b[ While it might not make much of a difference, it might make it maybe a bit easier. I still have many characters that need comlinks etc, so if that goes faster that would already be great! I think we will have to wait and see how it plays out.

    All in all I like the RA and what has been announced.

    That is my point, this is where I am. I only farm kyro and shards with regular energy

    So if these changes are supposed to and I quote:
    To help Existing Players get new characters up-to-speed and usable in high-level content
    As the game has grown, so has the difficulty and requirements for many events. Bringing a Marquee Character up to viability, in a game where strong squads are often Relic 5+, is a longer road than when we first introduced Marquees many years ago. These changes will help shorten that journey and get characters up to snuff so you can feel confident in using them in a variety of modes sooner.

    How is the changes doing this if G12, kyro, and shards are not affected (I am not saying they should be) and if you lose GET1 income?
    Loss of GET1 income can actually length the journey and get characters up to snuff when up to snuff is R5+, because now G12 items (for both left and right) that could have been obtained with GET1 will now have to be farmed from nodes

    I think the problem just once again comes down to the fact that they don't play their game at a high level. "Strong squads" are not r5+. "Standard squads" are now r5. G12 is useless in almost all game modes for almost all characters. But this is also from the company that said datacrons were added so that our brand new characters could be used from day 1.
  • I think the problem just once again comes down to the fact that they don't play their game at a high level. "Strong squads" are not r5+.

    Are you kidding me? My r4 Wampa routinely rampages through nasty squads by itself.

    r5+ is not "meta".

    r5+ is "strong".

    You don't have to be the world champion power lifter in order to be strong. Feel free to criticize CG. I do it all the time. But recognize that you are going to undercut your own credibility if you can't admit that full 5xr5 squads are "strong".
  • I think the problem just once again comes down to the fact that they don't play their game at a high level. "Strong squads" are not r5+.

    Are you kidding me? My r4 Wampa routinely rampages through nasty squads by itself.

    r5+ is not "meta".

    r5+ is "strong".

    You don't have to be the world champion power lifter in order to be strong. Feel free to criticize CG. I do it all the time. But recognize that you are going to undercut your own credibility if you can't admit that full 5xr5 squads are "strong".

    Considering veteran players can farm enough dc to equip every squad in GAC, there is strong case to say that R3 is now standard (almost expected) for this level of play.
  • CaesarAM wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    If you are doing the new TB then your need for GET1 shouldn’t be as bad.

    That’s not true at all. GET1 is for g12 left side, GET2 is for g12 right side.

    Ehhhh……. There’s regular energy, fleet energy, and the shard shop for left side. I would prefer to still get some GET1 with the new TB, but also see why it may go away. If you’re at the point of doing the new TB, you have largely outgrown GET1. Like how if you’re doing Sith Raid you aren’t lamenting the loss of stun cuffs from your loot box.

    It isn’t a perfect analogy, I know, because doing Sith doesn’t prevent you from doing Pit the way doing one TB prevents you from doing the other. But you get the idea.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • TVF
    33137 posts Member
    Regular energy is Kyro and fleet energy is right side g12
    The CGDF requests that CG takes away everyone's Extra Life Charity Event rewards. We don't deserve them. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    Regular energy is Kyro and fleet energy is right side g12
    Both of those can be bought with GET2, which we're still getting, and GACbucks--although, to be fair, we don't get enough of that.

    People--not you, now I'm speaking in general here--like to say how this is a game of resource management and making choices, but then when choices are added to the game they get all grumpy...
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • Again, I would like to have GET1 in the new TB, too. I'm just saying this isn't that big of a deal. If you're in need of GET3 you're no longer in serious need of GET1.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • scuba
    12924 posts Member
    Lumiya wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Without increasing the shard, kyro and G12 salvage income (again not saying this needs to be changed) you are not speeding the journey to r5 for me, an existing player.

    Would you call your own experience typical of most players? Without seeing your roster, I get the feeling that you're probably an outlier in terms of roster progression.

    Of players that have been here since the start of the game yes, I would.

    There have been very few marquee units released in the last couple years that I couldn't take to the 7* required stopping point with in a few days, and the only thing that slowed that down was kyro.

    See but this is the big difference. You are in the game since the beginning, an endgame player where as I am not even in the game for 2 years. Our experiences are very different. All the gear they are going to double will be absolutely needed for me and it will speed up my progression. If I don't have to spend currencies or energy for Carbantis and co, I can use that fully for other things like Kyros because until now I always have to also still farm and buy Kyros etc.

    But.... Is this really going to speed up the journey to R5+?
    Doubt it.
    I am not saying that the doubling of drop rates is a bad thing, I am just saying they are blowing smoke saying for "experienced" players it is going to speed the journey to R5+, cause for many reasons it is not.
  • scuba
    12924 posts Member
    NicWester wrote: »
    CaesarAM wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    If you are doing the new TB then your need for GET1 shouldn’t be as bad.

    That’s not true at all. GET1 is for g12 left side, GET2 is for g12 right side.

    Ehhhh……. There’s regular energy, fleet energy, and the shard shop for left side. I would prefer to still get some GET1 with the new TB, but also see why it may go away. If you’re at the point of doing the new TB, you have largely outgrown GET1. Like how if you’re doing Sith Raid you aren’t lamenting the loss of stun cuffs from your loot box.

    It isn’t a perfect analogy, I know, because doing Sith doesn’t prevent you from doing Pit the way doing one TB prevents you from doing the other. But you get the idea.

    That is where I disagree, I haven't outgrown GET1 as I use it regularly.

    Taking you words,
    There’s regular energy, fleet energy, and the shard shop for left side
    Well same could be said for right side, fleet energy and shard shop, so get rid of GET2 also should be no need for either right?

    Also GET1 is not just for left side, also left side purples and salvage for ID for relics.

    Income streams should not be removed, reduced because something else is coming in? Moved to another source? Sure , but not removed.

    Crystal for farming and GET1 are not equivalent.
    To use fleet energy and/or regular energy to make up for loss of GET1 you are now taking away from the farming of the stuff on the right side and kyro, this is causing a reduction in the economy not keeping it neutral or improving it.
  • NicWester wrote: »
    Again, I would like to have GET1 in the new TB, too. I'm just saying this isn't that big of a deal. If you're in need of GET3 you're no longer in serious need of GET1.

    I have to disagree here. Many guilds currently are a mixture of different sizes of players. I see it in my guild just for example and other guilds aswell. We have very old/big accounts, middle and we also always take in a certain amount of small players to help them grow.

    To also give a different perspective, an account with 6M GP very well might still need GET 1 for Hoda, Wampa, GAS or Malak depending on where their focus was yet they might have exactly the right roster to be successful in certain parts of the new TB. To generalise guilds or accounts and their needs does not work.

    Now we don't know how exactly the new TB is going to be or how difficult it will be or if it might even be gated by GM. But my guess is, that at least mid guilds will be able to participate, certainly not max it but still be able to solve a part of it, especially if they are a mixed guild and have big accounts that have Jabba etc.

    To me it's different if I have to decide for myself where I am going to use my resources and what I am going to do, because I do not interfere with others' progression or impose a path on them with my choices opposed to a whole guild that has many different accounts on different levels, stages and needs.

    We are all made of star-stuff
  • 100% agree with Lumiya.

    And if the intention is for this to be a part of the future of the game, eventually most guilds will be running it - like Geo TBs today. It seems like an attempt to separate lower level guilds from higher ones, but there is a lack of detail about it that could be provided later to clarify/address this.
    Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for life.
  • NicWester wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Regular energy is Kyro and fleet energy is right side g12
    Both of those can be bought with GET2, which we're still getting, and GACbucks--although, to be fair, we don't get enough of that.

    People--not you, now I'm speaking in general here--like to say how this is a game of resource management and making choices, but then when choices are added to the game they get all grumpy...

    This isn’t introducing a choice. It’s taking one away. Instead of managing the resource/currency and balancing what I did with it relative to others, your taking it away.
  • @CaesarAM

    but you still have the choice to play LS Geo if you want. So, yes. It's introducing a new choice, not taking one away.
  • TVF
    33137 posts Member
    Net +2!
    The CGDF requests that CG takes away everyone's Extra Life Charity Event rewards. We don't deserve them. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • @CaesarAM

    but you still have the choice to play LS Geo if you want. So, yes. It's introducing a new choice, not taking one away.

    That’s nonsense. That isn’t a choice about resource management. You’re describing a choice about resource acquisition. We’ve been through this already. They admitted that advancing in rewards shouldn’t take away the lower rewards in that progression track when they consolidated all the rewards for gear challenges. It’s a dumb practice. Reward progression should be cumulative.
  • Are people really not seeing that the lack of kyro’s being part of the gear changes is severely hampering the quest for G12 for any toon released in the last 2 years?

    First off; if they are removing GET1 from this new TB that’s bad on them. Forcing a choice between Geo and RoE (Rise of Empire) TB’s is going against their stated goal of future content impeding progress. So unless GET3 rewards everything we could get with GET1 at a substantially higher rate, they’re hurting progression for gear we farm with GET1.

    Secondly, as far as the kyro’s go, every single toon released in the last couple years has needed kyrotechs in the hundreds just to get from G8 to G12. Look at how many the inquisitors took? GL’s? New marquee’s? Star killer? Bad batch! The list goes on and on. Without making even tweaks to the kyrotech economy, they’re still keeping massive bottlenecks for G8-G11. They instilled a new gear purple gear piece for no reason, and claimed it was to alleviate the gear crunch. Well that was a proven lie. It’s still the same after these economy changes.

    Am I glad that they’re making the rest of the purple gear more available? Absolutely. It’s years overdue. However their lack of kyro attention minimizes the benefits to the players. Then by not having GET1 in the new TB and also halving the relic salvage we get from the increased gear then hurts our current storage of resources now by devaluing it by half. No bueno
  • Are people really not seeing that the lack of kyro’s being part of the gear changes is severely hampering the quest for G12 for any toon released in the last 2 years?

    Nope. I think we all see that.

    We just also see that Kyros are the last piece of gear hampering the ability to go straight to g12. They have to have some way to limit jumping to g12 for certain characters.

    The answer, then, isn't to open the flood gates on Kyros and change the kyro economy. That would just encourage CG to create a new piece of gear that's restricted more heavily than Kyros.

    the answer is to try to persuade CG to be reasonable in how many Kyros they're requiring for non-awesome toons.

    Every toon will require 100 to finish g12.

    New toons that aren't meant to be special should require only 100 before g12.

    Toons like Inqs that are meant to be a gear sink on a required team (the way that Phoenix were back I the day with the over-the-top StunGun & Carb requirements) can require 200 before g12 instead of the current 300.

    300 before g12 should be saved for toons intended to be truly special (Boussh Leia) and for some quest toons like Dr. Aphra.

    Once in a while you could have a quest toon that requires 400 before g12.

    Only GLs should require more than 400 before g12.

    A scheme like this would allow CG to make it harder to progress on newer toons (which , because of power creep, are on average better than toons released in the pre-kyro days). That's perfectly fine and appropriate. What bothers me is the 400 total requirement on random, non-special toons. It's way too much.

    But I don't think that doubling the Kyro supply is the answer, since that also affects gearing up GLs and other toons that are supposed to be a pain.

    Nope, I'm fine with kyro acquisition being the way it is. I will continue to advocate for more reasonable requirements on non-special toons, however.
  • Are people really not seeing that the lack of kyro’s being part of the gear changes is severely hampering the quest for G12 for any toon released in the last 2 years?

    Nope. I think we all see that.

    We just also see that Kyros are the last piece of gear hampering the ability to go straight to g12. They have to have some way to limit jumping to g12 for certain characters.

    The answer, then, isn't to open the flood gates on Kyros and change the kyro economy. That would just encourage CG to create a new piece of gear that's restricted more heavily than Kyros.

    the answer is to try to persuade CG to be reasonable in how many Kyros they're requiring for non-awesome toons.

    Every toon will require 100 to finish g12.

    New toons that aren't meant to be special should require only 100 before g12.

    Toons like Inqs that are meant to be a gear sink on a required team (the way that Phoenix were back I the day with the over-the-top StunGun & Carb requirements) can require 200 before g12 instead of the current 300.

    300 before g12 should be saved for toons intended to be truly special (Boussh Leia) and for some quest toons like Dr. Aphra.

    Once in a while you could have a quest toon that requires 400 before g12.

    Only GLs should require more than 400 before g12.

    A scheme like this would allow CG to make it harder to progress on newer toons (which , because of power creep, are on average better than toons released in the pre-kyro days). That's perfectly fine and appropriate. What bothers me is the 400 total requirement on random, non-special toons. It's way too much.

    But I don't think that doubling the Kyro supply is the answer, since that also affects gearing up GLs and other toons that are supposed to be a pain.

    Nope, I'm fine with kyro acquisition being the way it is. I will continue to advocate for more reasonable requirements on non-special toons, however.

    But that’s going against their stated ideal saying these changes are to make G12 the new base point and trivial to obtain. The changes they needed to make to even keep a pinch point were easy. You double what we get in the AB‘s
    Make shock prods purchased in quantities of 15 instead of 5. You put 5 of each in the daily reward box. Boom. You ease up the crunch enough so that you don’t make it automatic, still require some kind of management and also keep g13 gated with the kyro’s a bit.

    Personally I think they should never require more than 1 kyro slot like you said prior to G12 and then instead of 100 of a specific kyro to finish g12, keep it at 50 of each.

    They fell short of the changes in P2 to meet their stated goal and taking away GET1 further shortens their reach. Would love some kind of clarity on the GET1 from someone paid to communicate with us but….
  • Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Are people really not seeing that the lack of kyro’s being part of the gear changes is severely hampering the quest for G12 for any toon released in the last 2 years?

    Nope. I think we all see that.

    We just also see that Kyros are the last piece of gear hampering the ability to go straight to g12. They have to have some way to limit jumping to g12 for certain characters.

    The answer, then, isn't to open the flood gates on Kyros and change the kyro economy. That would just encourage CG to create a new piece of gear that's restricted more heavily than Kyros.

    the answer is to try to persuade CG to be reasonable in how many Kyros they're requiring for non-awesome toons.

    Every toon will require 100 to finish g12.

    New toons that aren't meant to be special should require only 100 before g12.

    Toons like Inqs that are meant to be a gear sink on a required team (the way that Phoenix were back I the day with the over-the-top StunGun & Carb requirements) can require 200 before g12 instead of the current 300.

    300 before g12 should be saved for toons intended to be truly special (Boussh Leia) and for some quest toons like Dr. Aphra.

    Once in a while you could have a quest toon that requires 400 before g12.

    Only GLs should require more than 400 before g12.

    A scheme like this would allow CG to make it harder to progress on newer toons (which , because of power creep, are on average better than toons released in the pre-kyro days). That's perfectly fine and appropriate. What bothers me is the 400 total requirement on random, non-special toons. It's way too much.

    But I don't think that doubling the Kyro supply is the answer, since that also affects gearing up GLs and other toons that are supposed to be a pain.

    Nope, I'm fine with kyro acquisition being the way it is. I will continue to advocate for more reasonable requirements on non-special toons, however.

    But that’s going against their stated ideal saying these changes are to make G12 the new base point and trivial to obtain.

    RA said "Getting to G10-G12 will be a smoother experience". Let's not get carried away ;)

  • Starslayer wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Are people really not seeing that the lack of kyro’s being part of the gear changes is severely hampering the quest for G12 for any toon released in the last 2 years?

    Nope. I think we all see that.

    We just also see that Kyros are the last piece of gear hampering the ability to go straight to g12. They have to have some way to limit jumping to g12 for certain characters.

    The answer, then, isn't to open the flood gates on Kyros and change the kyro economy. That would just encourage CG to create a new piece of gear that's restricted more heavily than Kyros.

    the answer is to try to persuade CG to be reasonable in how many Kyros they're requiring for non-awesome toons.

    Every toon will require 100 to finish g12.

    New toons that aren't meant to be special should require only 100 before g12.

    Toons like Inqs that are meant to be a gear sink on a required team (the way that Phoenix were back I the day with the over-the-top StunGun & Carb requirements) can require 200 before g12 instead of the current 300.

    300 before g12 should be saved for toons intended to be truly special (Boussh Leia) and for some quest toons like Dr. Aphra.

    Once in a while you could have a quest toon that requires 400 before g12.

    Only GLs should require more than 400 before g12.

    A scheme like this would allow CG to make it harder to progress on newer toons (which , because of power creep, are on average better than toons released in the pre-kyro days). That's perfectly fine and appropriate. What bothers me is the 400 total requirement on random, non-special toons. It's way too much.

    But I don't think that doubling the Kyro supply is the answer, since that also affects gearing up GLs and other toons that are supposed to be a pain.

    Nope, I'm fine with kyro acquisition being the way it is. I will continue to advocate for more reasonable requirements on non-special toons, however.

    But that’s going against their stated ideal saying these changes are to make G12 the new base point and trivial to obtain.

    RA said "Getting to G10-G12 will be a smoother experience". Let's not get carried away ;)

    tm6r09wqzove.jpeg
  • StarSon wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    I do understand the worries some people have about Kyros etc, I am a bit sceptical myself, but I think that if you don't really need to farm for so long for the other gear anymore you have more energy/time to farm Kyros and the rest.[/b[ While it might not make much of a difference, it might make it maybe a bit easier. I still have many characters that need comlinks etc, so if that goes faster that would already be great! I think we will have to wait and see how it plays out.

    All in all I like the RA and what has been announced.

    That is my point, this is where I am. I only farm kyro and shards with regular energy

    So if these changes are supposed to and I quote:
    To help Existing Players get new characters up-to-speed and usable in high-level content
    As the game has grown, so has the difficulty and requirements for many events. Bringing a Marquee Character up to viability, in a game where strong squads are often Relic 5+, is a longer road than when we first introduced Marquees many years ago. These changes will help shorten that journey and get characters up to snuff so you can feel confident in using them in a variety of modes sooner.

    How is the changes doing this if G12, kyro, and shards are not affected (I am not saying they should be) and if you lose GET1 income?
    Loss of GET1 income can actually length the journey and get characters up to snuff when up to snuff is R5+, because now G12 items (for both left and right) that could have been obtained with GET1 will now have to be farmed from nodes

    I think the problem just once again comes down to the fact that they don't play their game at a high level. "Strong squads" are not r5+. "Standard squads" are now r5. G12 is useless in almost all game modes for almost all characters. But this is also from the company that said datacrons were added so that our brand new characters could be used from day 1.

    it all depends am where you are in the game. An r5 squad fighting a 1 year F2P player is strong, whereas an r5 squad fighting a whale is weak.
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