GAC Kyber 1 bracket depletion

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It look like that kyber 1 is now only top 2000 and keep reducing in number. It will reduce to 0 in 3-4 GAC if it continues like this. I think it was over 10000 at startup. I never expect this, was it planned empty itself? Removing 100 points and keeping the same threshold is kind of weird…

Replies

  • I brought this up when this system was rolled out, and was told the squish is normal for this type of ranking system in other games.

    But the obvious question is, if we are getting squished every few months, and we are designed to only have a 50% win rate…doesn’t that mean that K1 (and eventually K2?) will keep getting smaller and smaller due to the continued squish?
  • AlexanderG wrote: »
    What I assume is a ripple effect is being felt. I'm in K3. Accounts with 9 and 10 mill GP plus 5 or 6GLs isn't that unusual.

    Didn't used to be that way.

    I noticed the same thing. I have 9.4 mil GP, used to lurk between low K1/high K2; now I’m floating around low K2, about 100 points above K3. And still I’m seeing the 9.5-10 mil GP accounts I’ve always been seeing.

    It seems like this is the result of the ongoing squish and a designed 50% win rate.
  • TheDude420 wrote: »

    But the obvious question is, if we are getting squished every few months, and we are designed to only have a 50% win rate…doesn’t that mean that K1 (and eventually K2?) will keep getting smaller and smaller due to the continued squish?

    Not just K1 or 2... if you keep this long enough, eventually it will affect K3, then K4 and K5 and then Aurodium and so on.
    It already does in a way. I just take my account as example: If I have a 50% winrate I more or less should keep my position,
    but for a few GACs now the squish always takes away points, so to keep my position I would have to win more and more, which per the implemented system is not possible. So after a while people will drop more and more
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • Pretty sure the squish retains your position, unless someone can show an example of someone with higher Skill Rating being squished below someone who had a lower Skill Rating.

    Also, Squishing up is apparently a thing as well.
  • Honestly its pretty simple, the more players that quit while in those ranks the less there will be. You cant gain the points of players who have stopped joining. If there is less players in kyber 1-4 joining there will naturally be less players in kyber 1 with how the skill point system works
  • i guess the algorithm is designed to make kyber leagues slowly smaller. the idea is that players will invest more, if they fear to be relegated. if the numbers from above are true, kyber 1 decreased by 80%. no way you can explain this just with no signins or people quitting since then.
  • It’s designed to reward players less in a slow manner of reducing the number of players in each high end league.
  • Honestly its pretty simple, the more players that quit while in those ranks the less there will be. You cant gain the points of players who have stopped joining. If there is less players in kyber 1-4 joining there will naturally be less players in kyber 1 with how the skill point system works

    There is plenty of evidence that the same if not more people are joining gac, so it's not about people not joining. You need to go 6-3 in a season or your skill ranking in k1 will be less than it was to start a season. There are plenty of posts and people tracking the numbers.
  • thedrjojo wrote: »
    Honestly its pretty simple, the more players that quit while in those ranks the less there will be. You cant gain the points of players who have stopped joining. If there is less players in kyber 1-4 joining there will naturally be less players in kyber 1 with how the skill point system works

    There is plenty of evidence that the same if not more people are joining gac, so it's not about people not joining. You need to go 6-3 in a season or your skill ranking in k1 will be less than it was to start a season. There are plenty of posts and people tracking the numbers.

    Its not about players joining its players in kyber quitting. 100,000 new players could join in the new leagues but they wont replace the players with high gac and gp quitting
  • Ultra
    10379 posts Moderator
    I tried talking about the squish issue with CG last week but i am not well versed on this enough

    @Taliana what's your input / suggestion on whether this is an issue or not and what's your proposed solution?
  • TVF
    33721 posts Member
    It feels a bit dishonest that you moved our crystal income to GAC and slowly reduce it over time by pushing down the reward levels artificially.

    It can feel that way but you have to factor in how many players started earning way more crystals the minute they moved crystals to GAC.

    It's a lot.
    The CGDF requests that CG takes away everyone's Extra Life Charity Event rewards. We don't deserve them. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • It would make sense to me to expand GAC in K1 every time it gets squished to zero. After this first squish to zero, an additional fleet and squad in each zone in K1. Once the second squish pushes K1 to zero again, they will ripple the expansion downward. At a third skill squish to zero, might see expansion at leagues below Kyber.
  • TVF wrote: »
    It feels a bit dishonest that you moved our crystal income to GAC and slowly reduce it over time by pushing down the reward levels artificially.

    It can feel that way but you have to factor in how many players started earning way more crystals the minute they moved crystals to GAC.

    It's a lot.

    So? Does that mean that they can artificially reduce the income, just because it was less more than a year ago? How long will it take until the old income is not compared to the "new" one?
    If they cut the rewards in half in a year, is it still ok because more than 2 years ago people got less?
    It is now long ago enough to not always compare to before, the "new" reward system is now in place long enough that this can and should be considered the Status Quo and the norm.

    To see that people slowly drop and will keep on dropping and therefor get less and less rewards because of the squish is a legitimate reason for concern and it is also a legitimate reason to try to make CG aware of it and see if there is a way to change this.
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • We're earning more crystals, but they are also more needed. There are more and higher requirements to farm, conquest, carbonite salvage, kyrotechs, etc.
  • scuba
    13036 posts Member
    The squish makes no sense as way to remove non active players from division/leagues, by simply not joining their skill rating should and will go down moving them. So why keep squishing it other than to reduce crystal income?
  • TVF
    33721 posts Member
    Lumiya wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    It feels a bit dishonest that you moved our crystal income to GAC and slowly reduce it over time by pushing down the reward levels artificially.

    It can feel that way but you have to factor in how many players started earning way more crystals the minute they moved crystals to GAC.

    It's a lot.

    So? Does that mean that they can artificially reduce the income, just because it was less more than a year ago? How long will it take until the old income is not compared to the "new" one?

    I'll let you know if I fall from K1 to K4.

    Furthermore, people in lower divisions get pushed up.
    The CGDF requests that CG takes away everyone's Extra Life Charity Event rewards. We don't deserve them. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF
    33721 posts Member
    Also, of course they can "artificially" reduce income. They artificially raised it too.
    The CGDF requests that CG takes away everyone's Extra Life Charity Event rewards. We don't deserve them. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    Also, of course they can "artificially" reduce income. They artificially raised it too.

    Or maybe they thought…moving crystal payouts to GAC would drive more revenue? Revenue is decreasing so they are adjusting the amount of crystals that you can earn.
  • TVF
    33721 posts Member
    Then why did they increase it in the first place?
    The CGDF requests that CG takes away everyone's Extra Life Charity Event rewards. We don't deserve them. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • They thought it would drive more revenue for players trying to stay at 50% win rate versus easy top 2 arena crystal payments…since many were in a shard chat?
  • Ultra wrote: »
    I tried talking about the squish issue with CG last week but i am not well versed on this enough

    @Taliana what's your input / suggestion on whether this is an issue or not and what's your proposed solution?

    Maybe in an effort to show transparency and integrity in their game, CG could release a count of the number of players in each division at the start of each GW to show these squishes are not depleting numbers.
  • TVF wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    It feels a bit dishonest that you moved our crystal income to GAC and slowly reduce it over time by pushing down the reward levels artificially.

    It can feel that way but you have to factor in how many players started earning way more crystals the minute they moved crystals to GAC.

    It's a lot.

    So? Does that mean that they can artificially reduce the income, just because it was less more than a year ago? How long will it take until the old income is not compared to the "new" one?

    I'll let you know if I fall from K1 to K4.

    Furthermore, people in lower divisions get pushed up.

    So just because you didn't drop out of Kyber 1 you are not concerned and have no opinion, eventhough the numbers presented paint a very clear picture. Waiting until something affects you before you start to take notice or think about it does not strike me as the right way to go about it.

    Now I know we don't always agree on everything and that's absolutely fine. I am not writing this to pick on you. I just think that this is a situation that should be handled as soon as possible because the longer it goes on, the worse it will get and since CG made this one of the most important modes, waiting until the damage is done is imho absolutely wrong. Sooner or later everyone will be affected.
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • Jed_Eye wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    I tried talking about the squish issue with CG last week but i am not well versed on this enough

    @Taliana what's your input / suggestion on whether this is an issue or not and what's your proposed solution?

    Maybe in an effort to show transparency and integrity in their game, CG could release a count of the number of players in each division at the start of each GW to show these squishes are not depleting numbers.

    The problem is that the squish does not take instant effect. You are not positioned in the division/ League according to your number after the squish. The numbers after the first round would be the ones that are important, because only after the first round will you land where your skill rating positions you. And that number will also not be really accurate because you gain or lose additional points depending on how that first round goes.
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • The problem is the squish - as I and one or two minority voices argued from the start (& from both mathematical and epistemological perspectives). The current squish is based on a Bayesian formula that’s best used to track probable outcomes across multiple leagues (eg if you wanted to create a world ranking of football teams where each country’s league system differs). It makes far less sense applied to a single ladder and league system and, since it relates to probability, is most likely to generate counterintuitive outcomes when tested against actual experience.TLDR- it’s not needed; it’s clumsily applied and its mechanics are occulted - resulting in the frustration and stunted growth we see now.

    TTLDR - I told you so.
  • Wed_Santa wrote: »
    The problem is the squish - as I and one or two minority voices argued from the start...

    TTLDR - I told you so.

    😉
    #ditchthesquish
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • I don't think a squish is bad, per se. But this squish coupled with CG not adjusting division/league cutoffs is. Also, as usual, CG's lack of communication makes matters worse, as we are left to assume neglect and imaginations run wild.
  • It's how you pretend everyone will get more rewards and you slowly take it away from them until they don't. Still liked the old system better.
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