GAC Kyber 1 bracket depletion

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Replies

  • Jefferx wrote: »
    In my memory, the squish was explained to reduce the constant increases in time. If they did not doing this, the number of player in kyber 1 would increase in time. I do understand why they did that, but in fact, what it is actually happening it’s the complete opposite. The only way to fix this is by moving the threshold to a fix number of players in each division. I hope they will do something or we will all reduce cristal income in the future…

    Iirc you’re mostly correct. The squish was “needed” because k1 matches were/are going to be worth more than k2 and k2 more than k3 because of the higher skill rating of the participants.
    So the squish was needed according to cg to make it possible to climb the ranks.

    This never really made sense to me for many reasons but it doesn’t matter why it didn’t. The reality is the system cg designed is not working as cg stated it would. If the design was flawed cg should fix it. If cg has intentionally been shrinking k1, as the conspiracy theorist believe, to lessen crystal rewards cg should say that.

    Regardless, I think I’m not unlike many. Can’t be bothered to shake my fist in the air because I’m still earning sufficient crystals but also not engaging with gac to the degree I did because the luster wore off months ago.
  • Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Jefferx wrote: »
    In my memory, the squish was explained to reduce the constant increases in time. If they did not doing this, the number of player in kyber 1 would increase in time. I do understand why they did that, but in fact, what it is actually happening it’s the complete opposite. The only way to fix this is by moving the threshold to a fix number of players in each division. I hope they will do something or we will all reduce cristal income in the future…

    Iirc you’re mostly correct. The squish was “needed” because k1 matches were/are going to be worth more than k2 and k2 more than k3 because of the higher skill rating of the participants.
    So the squish was needed according to cg to make it possible to climb the ranks.

    This never really made sense to me for many reasons but it doesn’t matter why it didn’t. The reality is the system cg designed is not working as cg stated it would. If the design was flawed cg should fix it. If cg has intentionally been shrinking k1, as the conspiracy theorist believe, to lessen crystal rewards cg should say that.

    Regardless, I think I’m not unlike many. Can’t be bothered to shake my fist in the air because I’m still earning sufficient crystals but also not engaging with gac to the degree I did because the luster wore off months ago.

    I think it's more of a Hanlon's razor case like various other things they set something one way and just leave it be for a long time even if it doesn't do their intention.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Drathuk916 wrote: »
    Jefferx wrote: »
    In my memory, the squish was explained to reduce the constant increases in time. If they did not doing this, the number of player in kyber 1 would increase in time. I do understand why they did that, but in fact, what it is actually happening it’s the complete opposite. The only way to fix this is by moving the threshold to a fix number of players in each division. I hope they will do something or we will all reduce cristal income in the future…

    Iirc you’re mostly correct. The squish was “needed” because k1 matches were/are going to be worth more than k2 and k2 more than k3 because of the higher skill rating of the participants.
    So the squish was needed according to cg to make it possible to climb the ranks.

    This never really made sense to me for many reasons but it doesn’t matter why it didn’t. The reality is the system cg designed is not working as cg stated it would. If the design was flawed cg should fix it. If cg has intentionally been shrinking k1, as the conspiracy theorist believe, to lessen crystal rewards cg should say that.

    Regardless, I think I’m not unlike many. Can’t be bothered to shake my fist in the air because I’m still earning sufficient crystals but also not engaging with gac to the degree I did because the luster wore off months ago.

    I think it's more of a Hanlon's razor case like various other things they set something one way and just leave it be for a long time even if it doesn't do their intention.

    That’s my suspicion too.
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    It is about the position in your League and division. If you get constantly points removed with every squish, you would have to win more fights to balance out those lost points.
    (...)
    Add to that the months before I didn't take screenshots and let's be nice and just say I "only" lost 20 in 3 months, then it's 60 more...

    That makes 154 points removed. The area of a division in Aurodium is give or take 100 points, so that makes 1 1/2 divisions.

    I think this is unacceptable.

    It's only "unacceptable" (I think it's a big word for such a small problem, but let's) if the squish doesn't work as intended. Squish/Push are there to maintain a balanced division population (20% in each league, something like 10/25/30/25/10 in each division, I don't remember exactly) in a tournament where the total number of players change each time. If the same percentage of players received the same rewards after the squish/push, then it's quite fair.

    Tl;dr: It's bound to happen each GAC; the only issue is if it doesn't work properly.


    It doesn't do that anymore. We already established that. All of Aurodium gets points taken.

    Again, it is not about the rewards in relation to others. It is about a player's position in their Division/League and not being able to maintain it. If a player loses points and gets relegated, they get less rewards because they are pushed down where as they wouldn't have been relegated without the squish. And as said before, if this happens before every single new GAC, there is a lot of points one has to balance out which is not possible with the 50/50 so you automatically fall and fall. Nothing fair about it.
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • Antario
    897 posts Member
    edited January 18
    Lumiya wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    It is about the position in your League and division. If you get constantly points removed with every squish, you would have to win more fights to balance out those lost points.
    (...)
    Add to that the months before I didn't take screenshots and let's be nice and just say I "only" lost 20 in 3 months, then it's 60 more...

    That makes 154 points removed. The area of a division in Aurodium is give or take 100 points, so that makes 1 1/2 divisions.

    I think this is unacceptable.

    It's only "unacceptable" (I think it's a big word for such a small problem, but let's) if the squish doesn't work as intended. Squish/Push are there to maintain a balanced division population (20% in each league, something like 10/25/30/25/10 in each division, I don't remember exactly) in a tournament where the total number of players change each time. If the same percentage of players received the same rewards after the squish/push, then it's quite fair.

    Tl;dr: It's bound to happen each GAC; the only issue is if it doesn't work properly.


    It doesn't do that anymore. We already established that. All of Aurodium gets points taken.

    Again, it is not about the rewards in relation to others. It is about a player's position in their Division/League and not being able to maintain it. If a player loses points and gets relegated, they get less rewards because they are pushed down where as they wouldn't have been relegated without the squish. And as said before, if this happens before every single new GAC, there is a lot of points one has to balance out which is not possible with the 50/50 so you automatically fall and fall. Nothing fair about it.

    Question is, even without the squish, wouldn't be the same amount of players being pushed down to the lower league? With the squish it just shifted the group of players being relegated, but the amount remains the same?
  • Lumiya wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    It is about the position in your League and division. If you get constantly points removed with every squish, you would have to win more fights to balance out those lost points.
    (...)
    Add to that the months before I didn't take screenshots and let's be nice and just say I "only" lost 20 in 3 months, then it's 60 more...

    That makes 154 points removed. The area of a division in Aurodium is give or take 100 points, so that makes 1 1/2 divisions.

    I think this is unacceptable.

    It's only "unacceptable" (I think it's a big word for such a small problem, but let's) if the squish doesn't work as intended. Squish/Push are there to maintain a balanced division population (20% in each league, something like 10/25/30/25/10 in each division, I don't remember exactly) in a tournament where the total number of players change each time. If the same percentage of players received the same rewards after the squish/push, then it's quite fair.

    Tl;dr: It's bound to happen each GAC; the only issue is if it doesn't work properly.


    It doesn't do that anymore. We already established that. All of Aurodium gets points taken.

    Again, it is not about the rewards in relation to others. It is about a player's position in their Division/League and not being able to maintain it. If a player loses points and gets relegated, they get less rewards because they are pushed down where as they wouldn't have been relegated without the squish. And as said before, if this happens before every single new GAC, there is a lot of points one has to balance out which is not possible with the 50/50 so you automatically fall and fall. Nothing fair about it.

    If you dispute the fact that people are being push down altogether, it’s not the same than disputing the fact that the push down doesn’t work how it’s supposed to work.

    If at the beginning of a Gac, there are not enough players in Chromium and too much in Aurodium, then Aurodium is being push down. Seems fine, as long as it works properly. If it means in some divisions you’ll need more than 50/50 to stay still, so be it. Speaking from a guy who was squished out of K1 multiple times and can’t get a good enough win rate to climb back up.

    When you talk about ‘fairness’, you make it about the system: keeping division population in check. That’s where I disagree. Now if you say that Aurodium is shrinking and doesn’t contain 20% of players anymore because they’re down in Chromium, that’s different and would tend to agree that it’s not ‘fair’.
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    It is about the position in your League and division. If you get constantly points removed with every squish, you would have to win more fights to balance out those lost points.
    (...)
    Add to that the months before I didn't take screenshots and let's be nice and just say I "only" lost 20 in 3 months, then it's 60 more...

    That makes 154 points removed. The area of a division in Aurodium is give or take 100 points, so that makes 1 1/2 divisions.

    I think this is unacceptable.

    It's only "unacceptable" (I think it's a big word for such a small problem, but let's) if the squish doesn't work as intended. Squish/Push are there to maintain a balanced division population (20% in each league, something like 10/25/30/25/10 in each division, I don't remember exactly) in a tournament where the total number of players change each time. If the same percentage of players received the same rewards after the squish/push, then it's quite fair.

    Tl;dr: It's bound to happen each GAC; the only issue is if it doesn't work properly.


    It doesn't do that anymore. We already established that. All of Aurodium gets points taken.

    Again, it is not about the rewards in relation to others. It is about a player's position in their Division/League and not being able to maintain it. If a player loses points and gets relegated, they get less rewards because they are pushed down where as they wouldn't have been relegated without the squish. And as said before, if this happens before every single new GAC, there is a lot of points one has to balance out which is not possible with the 50/50 so you automatically fall and fall. Nothing fair about it.

    If you dispute the fact that people are being push down altogether, it’s not the same than disputing the fact that the push down doesn’t work how it’s supposed to work.

    If at the beginning of a Gac, there are not enough players in Chromium and too much in Aurodium, then Aurodium is being push down. Seems fine, as long as it works properly. If it means in some divisions you’ll need more than 50/50 to stay still, so be it. Speaking from a guy who was squished out of K1 multiple times and can’t get a good enough win rate to climb back up.

    When you talk about ‘fairness’, you make it about the system: keeping division population in check. That’s where I disagree. Now if you say that Aurodium is shrinking and doesn’t contain 20% of players anymore because they’re down in Chromium, that’s different and would tend to agree that it’s not ‘fair’.

    Taliana's numbers pretty much established the "keep division population % in check" thing isn't happening as intended. Moreover it can not happen with a linear squish function that's currently being used which is showcased by the data. In previous such discussion people tried to explain away the changes in league numbers by the change in overall population. But that also quickly fell apart again when Taliana's numbers showed there's not a significant change in total population that can justify k1 shrinkage.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    It is about the position in your League and division. If you get constantly points removed with every squish, you would have to win more fights to balance out those lost points.
    (...)
    Add to that the months before I didn't take screenshots and let's be nice and just say I "only" lost 20 in 3 months, then it's 60 more...

    That makes 154 points removed. The area of a division in Aurodium is give or take 100 points, so that makes 1 1/2 divisions.

    I think this is unacceptable.

    It's only "unacceptable" (I think it's a big word for such a small problem, but let's) if the squish doesn't work as intended. Squish/Push are there to maintain a balanced division population (20% in each league, something like 10/25/30/25/10 in each division, I don't remember exactly) in a tournament where the total number of players change each time. If the same percentage of players received the same rewards after the squish/push, then it's quite fair.

    Tl;dr: It's bound to happen each GAC; the only issue is if it doesn't work properly.


    It doesn't do that anymore. We already established that. All of Aurodium gets points taken.

    Again, it is not about the rewards in relation to others. It is about a player's position in their Division/League and not being able to maintain it. If a player loses points and gets relegated, they get less rewards because they are pushed down where as they wouldn't have been relegated without the squish. And as said before, if this happens before every single new GAC, there is a lot of points one has to balance out which is not possible with the 50/50 so you automatically fall and fall. Nothing fair about it.

    If you dispute the fact that people are being push down altogether, it’s not the same than disputing the fact that the push down doesn’t work how it’s supposed to work.

    If at the beginning of a Gac, there are not enough players in Chromium and too much in Aurodium, then Aurodium is being push down. Seems fine, as long as it works properly. If it means in some divisions you’ll need more than 50/50 to stay still, so be it. Speaking from a guy who was squished out of K1 multiple times and can’t get a good enough win rate to climb back up.

    When you talk about ‘fairness’, you make it about the system: keeping division population in check. That’s where I disagree. Now if you say that Aurodium is shrinking and doesn’t contain 20% of players anymore because they’re down in Chromium, that’s different and would tend to agree that it’s not ‘fair’.

    Taliana's numbers pretty much established the "keep division population % in check" thing isn't happening as intended. Moreover it can not happen with a linear squish function that's currently being used which is showcased by the data. In previous such discussion people tried to explain away the changes in league numbers by the change in overall population. But that also quickly fell apart again when Taliana's numbers showed there's not a significant change in total population that can justify k1 shrinkage.

    I’m not denying that. To quote myself: (the squish/push) is bound to happen each GAC; the only issue is if it doesn't work properly. I welcome arguments trying to prove that it doesn’t work as it’s supposed to work, just as Taliana is doing with hard evidence to back it up.
  • Olddumper wrote: »
    An obvious thing they need to do is strip 100 day inactive accounts of rank and remove them entirely. This will help alleviate the squish.

    Since you have to click join to enter GAC, and the swgoh.gg tallied accounts and leaderboards are generated from actual GAC brackets, inactive accounts don’t show up in any of the real metrics. They are irrelevant to squish.

    We know squish isn’t because of inactive accounts in kyber - if it were, people would be pushed upwards not downwards.
  • MaruMaru
    2974 posts Member
    edited January 18
    Starslayer wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    It is about the position in your League and division. If you get constantly points removed with every squish, you would have to win more fights to balance out those lost points.
    (...)
    Add to that the months before I didn't take screenshots and let's be nice and just say I "only" lost 20 in 3 months, then it's 60 more...

    That makes 154 points removed. The area of a division in Aurodium is give or take 100 points, so that makes 1 1/2 divisions.

    I think this is unacceptable.

    It's only "unacceptable" (I think it's a big word for such a small problem, but let's) if the squish doesn't work as intended. Squish/Push are there to maintain a balanced division population (20% in each league, something like 10/25/30/25/10 in each division, I don't remember exactly) in a tournament where the total number of players change each time. If the same percentage of players received the same rewards after the squish/push, then it's quite fair.

    Tl;dr: It's bound to happen each GAC; the only issue is if it doesn't work properly.


    It doesn't do that anymore. We already established that. All of Aurodium gets points taken.

    Again, it is not about the rewards in relation to others. It is about a player's position in their Division/League and not being able to maintain it. If a player loses points and gets relegated, they get less rewards because they are pushed down where as they wouldn't have been relegated without the squish. And as said before, if this happens before every single new GAC, there is a lot of points one has to balance out which is not possible with the 50/50 so you automatically fall and fall. Nothing fair about it.

    If you dispute the fact that people are being push down altogether, it’s not the same than disputing the fact that the push down doesn’t work how it’s supposed to work.

    If at the beginning of a Gac, there are not enough players in Chromium and too much in Aurodium, then Aurodium is being push down. Seems fine, as long as it works properly. If it means in some divisions you’ll need more than 50/50 to stay still, so be it. Speaking from a guy who was squished out of K1 multiple times and can’t get a good enough win rate to climb back up.

    When you talk about ‘fairness’, you make it about the system: keeping division population in check. That’s where I disagree. Now if you say that Aurodium is shrinking and doesn’t contain 20% of players anymore because they’re down in Chromium, that’s different and would tend to agree that it’s not ‘fair’.

    Taliana's numbers pretty much established the "keep division population % in check" thing isn't happening as intended. Moreover it can not happen with a linear squish function that's currently being used which is showcased by the data. In previous such discussion people tried to explain away the changes in league numbers by the change in overall population. But that also quickly fell apart again when Taliana's numbers showed there's not a significant change in total population that can justify k1 shrinkage.

    I’m not denying that. To quote myself: (the squish/push) is bound to happen each GAC; the only issue is if it doesn't work properly. I welcome arguments trying to prove that it doesn’t work as it’s supposed to work, just as Taliana is doing with hard evidence to back it up.

    Well and that showed it's not working properly. The moment the plots has shown the linear function possibility of dynamically stretching the boundaries to keep the % populations have gone out of the door.

    This was already pretty easy to observe from k1-k2 though. K1 has shrunk to
    about 2556 people. 5 equal divisions and %10 for the 1's would need k1 to be %2 of the total population, right so far?
    1xeytjlzv4p8.png

    This would happen in an active population of 127k accounts. While the population is slightly shrinking, it's still way above 300k (those that play gac). We are way past the intended shrinkage and it's going on at the same pace (linear function).
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    It is about the position in your League and division. If you get constantly points removed with every squish, you would have to win more fights to balance out those lost points.
    (...)
    Add to that the months before I didn't take screenshots and let's be nice and just say I "only" lost 20 in 3 months, then it's 60 more...

    That makes 154 points removed. The area of a division in Aurodium is give or take 100 points, so that makes 1 1/2 divisions.

    I think this is unacceptable.

    It's only "unacceptable" (I think it's a big word for such a small problem, but let's) if the squish doesn't work as intended. Squish/Push are there to maintain a balanced division population (20% in each league, something like 10/25/30/25/10 in each division, I don't remember exactly) in a tournament where the total number of players change each time. If the same percentage of players received the same rewards after the squish/push, then it's quite fair.

    Tl;dr: It's bound to happen each GAC; the only issue is if it doesn't work properly.


    It doesn't do that anymore. We already established that. All of Aurodium gets points taken.

    Again, it is not about the rewards in relation to others. It is about a player's position in their Division/League and not being able to maintain it. If a player loses points and gets relegated, they get less rewards because they are pushed down where as they wouldn't have been relegated without the squish. And as said before, if this happens before every single new GAC, there is a lot of points one has to balance out which is not possible with the 50/50 so you automatically fall and fall. Nothing fair about it.

    If you dispute the fact that people are being push down altogether, it’s not the same than disputing the fact that the push down doesn’t work how it’s supposed to work.

    If at the beginning of a Gac, there are not enough players in Chromium and too much in Aurodium, then Aurodium is being push down. Seems fine, as long as it works properly. If it means in some divisions you’ll need more than 50/50 to stay still, so be it. Speaking from a guy who was squished out of K1 multiple times and can’t get a good enough win rate to climb back up.

    When you talk about ‘fairness’, you make it about the system: keeping division population in check. That’s where I disagree. Now if you say that Aurodium is shrinking and doesn’t contain 20% of players anymore because they’re down in Chromium, that’s different and would tend to agree that it’s not ‘fair’.

    Taliana's numbers pretty much established the "keep division population % in check" thing isn't happening as intended. Moreover it can not happen with a linear squish function that's currently being used which is showcased by the data. In previous such discussion people tried to explain away the changes in league numbers by the change in overall population. But that also quickly fell apart again when Taliana's numbers showed there's not a significant change in total population that can justify k1 shrinkage.

    I’m not denying that. To quote myself: (the squish/push) is bound to happen each GAC; the only issue is if it doesn't work properly. I welcome arguments trying to prove that it doesn’t work as it’s supposed to work, just as Taliana is doing with hard evidence to back it up.

    Well and that showed it's not working properly. The moment the plots has shown the linear function possibility of dynamically stretching the boundaries to keep the % populations have gone out of the door.

    This was already pretty easy to observe from k1-k2 though. K1 has shrunk to
    about 2556 people. 5 equal divisions and %10 for the 1's would need k1 to be %2 of the total population, right so far?
    1xeytjlzv4p8.png

    This would happen in an active population of 127k accounts. While the population is slightly shrinking, it's still way above 300k (those that play gac). We are way past the intended shrinkage and it's going on at the same pace (linear function).

    I don't dispute your claim /thumbup (even if I would prefer less math, like just comparing the number of players in K1 to the number of players in K5, as it should be about the same and it's probably not).

    If I remember correctly, the 'not working' part has already been shown in the same post you were talking about based on Taliana's work.
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    It is about the position in your League and division. If you get constantly points removed with every squish, you would have to win more fights to balance out those lost points.
    (...)
    Add to that the months before I didn't take screenshots and let's be nice and just say I "only" lost 20 in 3 months, then it's 60 more...

    That makes 154 points removed. The area of a division in Aurodium is give or take 100 points, so that makes 1 1/2 divisions.

    I think this is unacceptable.

    It's only "unacceptable" (I think it's a big word for such a small problem, but let's) if the squish doesn't work as intended. Squish/Push are there to maintain a balanced division population (20% in each league, something like 10/25/30/25/10 in each division, I don't remember exactly) in a tournament where the total number of players change each time. If the same percentage of players received the same rewards after the squish/push, then it's quite fair.

    Tl;dr: It's bound to happen each GAC; the only issue is if it doesn't work properly.


    It doesn't do that anymore. We already established that. All of Aurodium gets points taken.

    Again, it is not about the rewards in relation to others. It is about a player's position in their Division/League and not being able to maintain it. If a player loses points and gets relegated, they get less rewards because they are pushed down where as they wouldn't have been relegated without the squish. And as said before, if this happens before every single new GAC, there is a lot of points one has to balance out which is not possible with the 50/50 so you automatically fall and fall. Nothing fair about it.

    If you dispute the fact that people are being push down altogether, it’s not the same than disputing the fact that the push down doesn’t work how it’s supposed to work.

    If at the beginning of a Gac, there are not enough players in Chromium and too much in Aurodium, then Aurodium is being push down. Seems fine, as long as it works properly. If it means in some divisions you’ll need more than 50/50 to stay still, so be it. Speaking from a guy who was squished out of K1 multiple times and can’t get a good enough win rate to climb back up.

    When you talk about ‘fairness’, you make it about the system: keeping division population in check. That’s where I disagree. Now if you say that Aurodium is shrinking and doesn’t contain 20% of players anymore because they’re down in Chromium, that’s different and would tend to agree that it’s not ‘fair’.

    Taliana's numbers pretty much established the "keep division population % in check" thing isn't happening as intended. Moreover it can not happen with a linear squish function that's currently being used which is showcased by the data. In previous such discussion people tried to explain away the changes in league numbers by the change in overall population. But that also quickly fell apart again when Taliana's numbers showed there's not a significant change in total population that can justify k1 shrinkage.

    I’m not denying that. To quote myself: (the squish/push) is bound to happen each GAC; the only issue is if it doesn't work properly. I welcome arguments trying to prove that it doesn’t work as it’s supposed to work, just as Taliana is doing with hard evidence to back it up.

    Well and that showed it's not working properly. The moment the plots has shown the linear function possibility of dynamically stretching the boundaries to keep the % populations have gone out of the door.

    This was already pretty easy to observe from k1-k2 though. K1 has shrunk to
    about 2556 people. 5 equal divisions and %10 for the 1's would need k1 to be %2 of the total population, right so far?
    1xeytjlzv4p8.png

    This would happen in an active population of 127k accounts. While the population is slightly shrinking, it's still way above 300k (those that play gac). We are way past the intended shrinkage and it's going on at the same pace (linear function).

    I don't dispute your claim /thumbup (even if I would prefer less math, like just comparing the number of players in K1 to the number of players in K5, as it should be about the same and it's probably not).

    If I remember correctly, the 'not working' part has already been shown in the same post you were talking about based on Taliana's work.

    4059 players in k5 rn.
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    Starslayer wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »
    It is about the position in your League and division. If you get constantly points removed with every squish, you would have to win more fights to balance out those lost points.
    (...)
    Add to that the months before I didn't take screenshots and let's be nice and just say I "only" lost 20 in 3 months, then it's 60 more...

    That makes 154 points removed. The area of a division in Aurodium is give or take 100 points, so that makes 1 1/2 divisions.

    I think this is unacceptable.

    It's only "unacceptable" (I think it's a big word for such a small problem, but let's) if the squish doesn't work as intended. Squish/Push are there to maintain a balanced division population (20% in each league, something like 10/25/30/25/10 in each division, I don't remember exactly) in a tournament where the total number of players change each time. If the same percentage of players received the same rewards after the squish/push, then it's quite fair.

    Tl;dr: It's bound to happen each GAC; the only issue is if it doesn't work properly.


    It doesn't do that anymore. We already established that. All of Aurodium gets points taken.

    Again, it is not about the rewards in relation to others. It is about a player's position in their Division/League and not being able to maintain it. If a player loses points and gets relegated, they get less rewards because they are pushed down where as they wouldn't have been relegated without the squish. And as said before, if this happens before every single new GAC, there is a lot of points one has to balance out which is not possible with the 50/50 so you automatically fall and fall. Nothing fair about it.

    If you dispute the fact that people are being push down altogether, it’s not the same than disputing the fact that the push down doesn’t work how it’s supposed to work.

    If at the beginning of a Gac, there are not enough players in Chromium and too much in Aurodium, then Aurodium is being push down. Seems fine, as long as it works properly. If it means in some divisions you’ll need more than 50/50 to stay still, so be it. Speaking from a guy who was squished out of K1 multiple times and can’t get a good enough win rate to climb back up.

    When you talk about ‘fairness’, you make it about the system: keeping division population in check. That’s where I disagree. Now if you say that Aurodium is shrinking and doesn’t contain 20% of players anymore because they’re down in Chromium, that’s different and would tend to agree that it’s not ‘fair’.

    r8clbox093wk.jpeg

    Here is the easiest non math based visual aid from Scott over at events. To add some math less than 33% of joined accounts are in kyber or audorium. It’s suppose to be 40% according to cg. Even if we ignore carbonite (and the fact it has almost as many players as kyber and audorium combined) because it’s filled with non engaging or new players you still see a significant problem in league sizes between the top 2 leagues and the next two leagues.
  • Screerider
    746 posts Member
    edited January 18
    Antario wrote: »
    Question is, even without the squish, wouldn't be the same amount of players being pushed down to the lower league? With the squish it just shifted the group of players being relegated, but the amount remains the same?
    I have to think the relegations happen prior to the Squish, just for consistency, Otherwise, you could get Squished based on your pre-relegation spot, then relegated to a place that has a different Squish amount. You'd possibly have two groups of players landing at the same location, or even swapping Rankings.
  • tbh squish isn’t bad at keeping kyber as a league the same size, which makes me think that part is where CG wants it.

    But the reason they squish kyber towards its average to avoid the league shrinking is the same reason they need to change the kyber1 squish.

    Honestly the source of all the problems is that the matchmaking skill rating and the rewards-and-leagues skill rating are the same number. If they had skill rating as a hidden number for matchmaking and set rewards based on ranking in the player base instead, they wouldn’t have the complaints they do. They could treat matchmaking along the continuum of the entire playerbase, and pay out reward in whatever way they deemed consistent and fair as a percentage of players. And squish wouldn’t be as important, because we wouldn’t see the compressions required to keep matchmaking tight.
  • Taliana wrote: »
    tbh squish isn’t bad at keeping kyber as a league the same size, which makes me think that part is where CG wants it.

    But the reason they squish kyber towards its average to avoid the league shrinking is the same reason they need to change the kyber1 squish.

    Honestly the source of all the problems is that the matchmaking skill rating and the rewards-and-leagues skill rating are the same number. If they had skill rating as a hidden number for matchmaking and set rewards based on ranking in the player base instead, they wouldn’t have the complaints they do. They could treat matchmaking along the continuum of the entire playerbase, and pay out reward in whatever way they deemed consistent and fair as a percentage of players. And squish wouldn’t be as important, because we wouldn’t see the compressions required to keep matchmaking tight.

    Maybe I don't understand the idea, wouldn't we extrapolate where we fall immediately from the rewards? Or do you mean matchmaking can work seperately from this? If so why and how?
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Maybe I don't understand the idea, wouldn't we extrapolate where we fall immediately from the rewards? Or do you mean matchmaking can work seperately from this? If so why and how?
    Your match would be determined by your rank (as would your prize), which we would easily see. The purpose of the rating is how to rearrange the ranks each round based on wins and losses. With no squish, the rating at the tails would stretch out over time, to the point that someone in top 8 could go 0-3 and remain in top 8. It's more competitive to keep those tails short so that the top gets more variation.

  • Antario
    897 posts Member
    edited January 19
    Nevermind
  • I'm really curious when or if there will be any actions from CG at all. If things continue at this rate, Kyber 1 will only have a few hundred players left in the summer

  • I doubt anyone at CG even realizes it is happening.
    This is probably accurate.
    If only they read the forum.
    Make Bronzium autoplay opening an option.

  • I doubt anyone at CG even realizes it is happening.
    This is probably accurate.
    If only they read the forum.

    Ultra actually brought it to their attention and asked Taliana about it.

    It should be enough that Ultra brought it up for them to go and take a look at the numbers in game etc to see if there is something
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • Lumiya wrote: »

    I doubt anyone at CG even realizes it is happening.
    This is probably accurate.
    If only they read the forum.

    Ultra actually brought it to their attention and asked Taliana about it.

    It should be enough that Ultra brought it up for them to go and take a look at the numbers in game etc to see if there is something


    Didn't he also say he didn't have a strong grasp on the situation to explain it, which means that CG doesn't understand the issue in the first place.
  • This problem has been raised multiple times already.

    October 29, 2022: Inquiry into whether they were intentionally shrinking K1
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/259716/request-for-official-comment-on-squeeze-gac-league-and-division-targets

    November 30, 2022: Proposed solution with data gathered about how the squish impacts different divisions
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/260300/current-squish-formula-math-and-kyber1-here-is-how-to-fix-the-leak/p1

    December 19, 2022: Updated data showing the continued shrinking of the top kyber divisions
    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/260723/december-squish-were-down-to-2776-in-kyber-1-0-88-of-players#latest

    These graphics were also directly provided to meathead prior to CG's December time off.

    But based on the earlier post in this thread we are still in the pre-recognition part of the process.
  • Ultra
    10379 posts Moderator
    Lumiya wrote: »

    I doubt anyone at CG even realizes it is happening.
    This is probably accurate.
    If only they read the forum.

    Ultra actually brought it to their attention and asked Taliana about it.

    It should be enough that Ultra brought it up for them to go and take a look at the numbers in game etc to see if there is something


    Didn't he also say he didn't have a strong grasp on the situation to explain it, which means that CG doesn't understand the issue in the first place.

    i don't but doesn't mean CG doesn't
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Lumiya wrote: »

    I doubt anyone at CG even realizes it is happening.
    This is probably accurate.
    If only they read the forum.

    Ultra actually brought it to their attention and asked Taliana about it.

    It should be enough that Ultra brought it up for them to go and take a look at the numbers in game etc to see if there is something


    Didn't he also say he didn't have a strong grasp on the situation to explain it, which means that CG doesn't understand the issue in the first place.

    i don't but doesn't mean CG doesn't

    Did they give you the impression that it was working as they intended or (if not) if they would address it to the community?
  • I will be going 6-3 this season, and my SR will barely be higher than it was at the end of last GAC. I don't care about the numerical value of my SR, per se, but I do care about how far above the K1/2 threshold it is. And I don't think one should have to go 6-3 to keep their head above water. Would really like CG's take here.
  • It appears that we are getting the same squish next week since there hasn't even been an acknowledgment that something is very wrong with the way they are managing it.
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