What is "OP" ?

Tiggus

Well, I get that this means "Over Powered", but in a debate like "Count Dooku [or insert any other name here, it changes over time] is OP", "No he's not", is there anything in these statements that has some objectivity?

I can probably pretend (objectively) that one character is stronger than another, or that one character is (very) strong, if he's stronger than (many) others. But where do you draw the line to pretend that he's so strong that he's actually too strong, or OP? Or conversely, that he's not too strong, or not OP?

I somehow feel that the response is this: I call a character OP if:

He's strong, and I don't have him.

Fher

People call a character OP when they don't know how to counter it and expect a win every time and not take into account RNG. Count Dooku is by no stretch of the imagination OP, I eat that fool for breakfast every morning.

Mezmo

You are, Original Poster, you are.

godgiven45

Over powered or original poster

Prana_lama

I'd consider something OP or at least meta warping if it is a specific character that either must be in a squad or your squad must have a way to deal with it in order to be competitive at a high level. Ideally you'd want a metagame that works as a rock-paper-scissors. So if rock is beating everything something is OP.

Hauzer

"OP" is RG

Olle

OP means different things to different people. Some people won't call anyone OP unless it's a complete game changer/broken. I consider someone OP if they are well above average. GS and Rey are OP in my option. Yes you can beat them but they are well above average.

chuckwing

OP is Dooku. If anyone says otherwise, then they have him maxed out leading their teams. Think of it this way.... QGJ is OP and Dooku destroys him. So technically Dooku is even more OP than OP itself. Name one other char who can end a battle before it even begins. Dooku double stun = game over.

Valent_Antona

Literally, OP refers to something that has no equivalent, or has no exploitable weakness. In the case of Dooku, I don't think he's "OP" per se, but he makes life difficult for a majority of opponents. He does have weaknesses (low HP, easily stunned), but I think the majority of "OP" claims come from Jedi-heavy teams. He truly is the bane of all Jedi. Worse than Vader was intended to be. His high evasion plus offense up on evade for anyone on the team makes the whole team annoying, not just him. So the majority of complaints are about Dooku led teams, not specifically Dooku himself.

BentWookiee

'Overpowered", or "Original Post or Poster" depending on the context used.

Vodo_Loms

chuckwing wrote: »

Dooku double stun = game over.

So many times. Too many times. I like Dooku. I spent the time to grind him. But facing him down, when he stuns my Lumi before she has the chance to ability block Phasma and another one of my heroes? Or when Daka does is (whose grind I haven't gotten around to yet, but who I can't wait to use)? That is insta-death. I've had an entire team stunned before I could act by somebody who ran Phasma (L), Daka, and Dooku (three were stunned on the first action alone). Dooku's speed is just too high for a hero who has a 90% chance to stun a necessary counter strategy on the first turn, and Daka's speed is too high for a hero with an almost 50% stun on its basic attack. The only reason people can handle teams with both Dooku and Phasma are because Dooku's AI is cruddy and he doesn't prioritize Jedi like he should, and because some people use Yoda and insta-use his battle meditation. Honestly, the most reasonable stun stat I've seen is Asajj (who I use and fight against all the time). She stuns often enough that it's decently useful, but not a strategy to rely upon and as such is a decent surprise on offense. When she lands a stun on you, it's just one of those times where you just accept you had bad RNG there, because she's not stunning every other turn like Daka (especially because of her low speed).

Timitock

Valent_Antona wrote: »

Literally, OP refers to something that has no equivalent, or has no exploitable weakness. In the case of Dooku, I don't think he's "OP" per se, but he makes life difficult for a majority of opponents. He does have weaknesses (low HP, easily stunned), but I think the majority of "OP" claims come from Jedi-heavy teams. He truly is the bane of all Jedi. Worse than Vader was intended to be. His high evasion plus offense up on evade for anyone on the team makes the whole team annoying, not just him. So the majority of complaints are about Dooku led teams, not specifically Dooku himself.

Actually, Dooku vs Jedi is no longer a headache fight.
As you say, he is easily stunned and has few HP.
I kid you not, Eeth Koth's stun vs him is very reliable and busts him to 1/2 health.
Don't get me wrong, RNG can make him suck at times, but he isnt the boogeyman.

darth_suicune

You will very rarely get an "objective" comment about a char being OP, because as you can see in this very thread, OP means slightly different things to different people.

On the other hand, what is an "objective" argument for being OP? If something is absolutely broken it's probably caught in the early testing of the game before it gets released, thus some things will have a power above the average and some others will be under average, but very rarely an OP thing will get through. On the other hand, if it slips through testing, it will eventually get nerfed in an update.

Dooku in particular is OP... in the early stages of the game against most, especially f2p, players. Unless you dish out a large amount of money, or know very well what you're doing from the very beginning, you're pretty likely going to be using at least 2-3 jedis as your healers to keep your people alive during the initial stages of the game. Then dooku will come in gw/arena and eat your team for breakfast all day long because you don't have enough of a roster to deal with him. Once you get to other characters that aren't jedi, dooku becomes less of a problem, until...

There might be an "objective" argument to make towards some toon (or some ability) being OP. If 80-90% of teams in the top 100 carry him, most as lead, some others as regular, you are probably looking at an arguably objectively OP char. If he wouldn't be way ahead of the competition, he wouldn't be used by everyone and their mom, so, until (following from the previous paragraph) his leader ability is also broken (or as I made a point in another thread, passive evasion is), for turning supposedly competitive games into coin flips.

Tiggus

BentWookiee wrote: »

'Overpowered", or "Original Post or Poster" depending on the context used.

Or even both at the same time, when Count Dooku starts a new thread on the forum

Pokebreaker

darth_suicune wrote: »

You will very rarely get an "objective" comment about a char being OP, because as you can see in this very thread, OP means slightly different things to different people.

On the other hand, what is an "objective" argument for being OP? If something is absolutely broken it's probably caught in the early testing of the game before it gets released, thus some things will have a power above the average and some others will be under average, but very rarely an OP thing will get through. On the other hand, if it slips through testing, it will eventually get nerfed in an update.

Dooku in particular is OP... in the early stages of the game against most, especially f2p, players. Unless you dish out a large amount of money, or know very well what you're doing from the very beginning, you're pretty likely going to be using at least 2-3 jedis as your healers to keep your people alive during the initial stages of the game. Then dooku will come in gw/arena and eat your team for breakfast all day long because you don't have enough of a roster to deal with him. Once you get to other characters that aren't jedi, dooku becomes less of a problem, until...

There might be an "objective" argument to make towards some toon (or some ability) being OP. If 80-90% of teams in the top 100 carry him, most as lead, some others as regular, you are probably looking at an arguably objectively OP char. If he wouldn't be way ahead of the competition, he wouldn't be used by everyone and their mom, so, until (following from the previous paragraph) his leader ability is also broken (or as I made a point in another thread, passive evasion is), for turning supposedly competitive games into coin flips.

Something being OverPowered will always change with time. As nerfs and buffs occur, something else always fills the position of Overpowered. Same for when stats change, where devs place more emphasis on one stat over the other.

When it comes to games that are dictated by hard numbers, there will ALWAYS be a "best" stat/item/character/weapon, etc. The most that can be done to balance it, is RNG. However, even with RNG, there will be an OP set up to take most advantage. The only games that can defy this, are games that require ACTUAL player skill in conjunction with the item being used. This game isn't one of them.

Azraelrulez

Agree with @Pokebreaker . The only problem is distinguishing between the best and the OP toon. Thin line. For example GS. I hate him, I don't have him but I would consider him one of the best all round toons but many say he's OP.

DingleTingle

Are you sure it does not mean Out Plowing, maybe that is a rural term.

MrClean621

Dooku himself is not OP but his leader ability is. The dodge rate is badly broken and nobody wants to admit it... Especially the people that are running him... Which is pretty much everyone right now.