Response to Raid Economy Update

Replies

  • Options
    Why don't I see a real change?
  • Options
    They cut the rewards by 70%. After the community called them out, they returned 20%. At the end of the day, they cut our rewards by 50%. And they think they can get away with this.
  • Blake085
    190 posts Member
    Options
    The *NEW* new rewards from the Krayt raid are still as bad as before.

    The only thing it will accomplish is to inflate the number of guilds doing that Raid. They definitely saw that after the first Krayt run was over, a lot of guilds went back to do the Sith Triumvirate raid.

    Now they will be able to see the data and say "Hey look! The Krayt Raid is a success! Lots of guilds are doing it!", when the only reason that is happening is because they "added"-"front-loaded" the rewards in the first boxes.

    No one will have real incentive on getting better personal and guild scores.
  • LordDirt
    5063 posts Member
    Options
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Yep, no way they actually come through with their promises now.

    Told you guys. Crazy how so many still fall for their lies. :D
    Why wasn't Cobb Vanth shards a reward for the Krayt Dragon raid? Why wasn't Endor Gear Luke shards a reward for the Speeder Bike raid?
  • Options
    Huge step forward.

    Personal Track got absolutely gutted. major slap in the face. the thing that's supposed to motivate players to participate instead of having Guild officers nag everyone to get damage in.

    i would love to see credits added to the raid rewards. Same with GET, Guild tokens and Fleet Credits.
    the average total rewards and you can check my math on this for Simmed Pit, ATT, AND AVERAGED HSTR is 2million credits, 3k Guild tokens, 400k Fleet Credits, and like 400GET1.

    If your not going to do that. Fine. They have to be a Staple item in the store. Same way i can always buy credits in the arena store. out of the last 3 days checking 3-4 times a day. I have had credits in the shop. ONCE. So you RNG rolled the credits i used to just get. this is so infuriating. also why are they so expensive? a 6th of my mk1 raid tokens is just getting the credits you took away.

    this whole thing feels anti consumer. I was thinking about spending money on the game(may 4th crystal pack 20$), because sometimes its fun and i enjoy it and i would like to support it.

    Also where is my Fleet load outs, and those other QoL changes? did you forget while doom scrolling raid reward posts?

    I will not support this. if i wanted to gamble, I would just gamble. At least when I win. I won real money. Not 400 kyros at the near AAA Title price of 40$ or whatever.
  • beli631
    31 posts Member
    Options
    So their solution is too add nothing and just rearange it a bit better? Sigh why i thought they'll actually bother to fix this...
    This will help low to mid guilds so they aren't more or less locked out of aeros but id still does not adress overall net loss...
    They didn't even mention insane shop pricing of some items...

    This is only a half measure so ppl wont play sith instead of krayt and they can say that majority of players is "engaged" with new krayt raid and everything is fine... This is getting pathetic...
  • Options
    Still FAR from what we we're getting before!

    CPIT awarded 7 aeros to the top 40 players. It costs 400 MK3 tokens to earn 2 aeros. To equal what we earned before, someone would need to spend 1400 MK3 tokens for 7 aeros. That number is locked behind the 130M crate. And since only the top 92 guilds reached that benchmark, it's still a LONG way from what we were earning before.

    Kyros still aren't available in the raid store.

    And still no mention of credits, ship credits, guild tokens, GET1, or GET2.

    In regards to aeros, my guild is 330mil and we were doing Cpit and we did 40mil damage in the first krayt raid and under the revised rewards will be 750 mk3 tokens or 3.5 aeros. But, we'll be getting those rewards every 3 days or so instead of the once a week for Cpit, so it should be about the same.
  • Options
    beli631 wrote: »
    So their solution is too add nothing and just rearange it a bit better? Sigh why i thought they'll actually bother to fix this...
    This will help low to mid guilds so they aren't more or less locked out of aeros but id still does not adress overall net loss...
    They didn't even mention insane shop pricing of some items...

    This is only a half measure so ppl wont play sith instead of krayt and they can say that majority of players is "engaged" with new krayt raid and everything is fine... This is getting pathetic...

    Don’t worry you can try their “new” LOTR game and it’s Sega Genesis graphics tomorrow. 😆 💩
  • beli631
    31 posts Member
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    beli631 wrote: »
    So their solution is too add nothing and just rearange it a bit better? Sigh why i thought they'll actually bother to fix this...
    This will help low to mid guilds so they aren't more or less locked out of aeros but id still does not adress overall net loss...
    They didn't even mention insane shop pricing of some items...

    This is only a half measure so ppl wont play sith instead of krayt and they can say that majority of players is "engaged" with new krayt raid and everything is fine... This is getting pathetic...

    Don’t worry you can try their “new” LOTR game and it’s Sega Genesis graphics tomorrow. 😆 💩

    Would rather smash my phone then play any cg game ever again. :D

  • Ultra
    11541 posts Moderator
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    If you guys can't stay on-topic...
  • paschasc
    94 posts Member
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    Just throw in a top 10 Sith raid loot box and a couple million credits per raid and we'll call it even.
  • Boofpoof
    343 posts Member
    Options
    I’m just going to cut to the chase and call this improvement what it is (or more specifically what it’s not). Fundamentally it’s changed nothing other than rearranging the order of rewards to the front of the pack. You’ve all but completely killed the personal reward track. You’ve done NOTHING to address G12 finishers (whoopee doo you gave me Bacta gel). GETI/GETII still missing. No shards. No currency. It’s like your tone deaf to the 11-12 pages of the previous thread of what was said about the current reward structure.

    Simply put CG you lied to us. You once again moved the goal posts but you expect us to keep kicking the ball through the goal posts after you’ve let all the air out of the ball and then have the audacity to think your kicker (that’s us players) to not notice there’s no air in the ball.

    This whole thing is so easily fixed it boggles my mind on how narrow minded you are to not see it. You even said it in your Road Ahead in February. Krayt Raid > Heroic Sith Raid > HAAT/Pit raid. The point of contention is the lack of very simple things that have been the backbone of the game economy/raid system:

    - Currency (you want to nerf this fine. Update your credit heist to a figure that actually means something to a good chunk of your playerbase now versus the typical 5M that won’t even promote one character from Lvl 1 to Lvl 85. Your mods are 3.95M in the mod store. You think currency grows on trees. It did with raids but not anymore.

    - GET 1/GET II currency. The backbone of progression (namely G12 finishers) lives in this area. And in one fell swoop you’ve decimated this influx with no thought of replacing it. Your overinflated prices in Mk1/Mk2/Mk3 raid currency don’t even come close to this currency.

    - G12 finishers. Under CPIT/HSITH you stood a good chance of scoring these needed pieces. Now they’re completely gone to be “chosen” from Mk1/Mk2/Mk3 store. That’d be great except for two things. They’re overpriced for what you get and trying to sort through the mess must have been from the same genius who designed your icons for the new currency. Clunky, ugly, not user friendly and a pain in the **** to scroll through.

    The solution has been presented numerous times before so I’m restating what’s already been stated. If the Krayt raid is the raid you want your players to chase then the rewards need to REFLECT that. Bring back credits, GETI/GETII currency/G12 finisher at the front of the reward track. Progressing through the ranks there needs to be an incentive to get there. TB rewards do this. Why are you so fundamentally against giving the players what they had before we got knocked back to one raid. It’s already a nerf because it’s one raid. The bare minimum is giving back what the average completions would have given (Pit/HAAT/HSITH/CPIT). Keep in mind this doesn’t even touch what you’ve done in moving the goal post for Aeros now. With GLs requiring R8 and R9 toons you had Aeros tied to raids. Gone to the wind to a very overpriced conversion.

    I’m not happy about your announcement. You’ve done something I didn’t think was possible in that not only did you miss the point but you then killed the incentive to want to obtain it by nerfing personal rewards. What incentive are you giving for players to better themselves for their guild when everyone gets the same reward at the end. You think they’re going to invest heavily in teams just to earn a little more Mk1/Mk2/Mk3 tokens for the guild.

    Go back to the drawing board CG. You aren’t listening and I ain’t buying your “improvement” because it’s far from it.
    SWGOH Guild: Peace is a Lie SWGOH Profile: Boofpoof Discord: Buffpuff#3065
  • Options
    Soooooo...

    CG saw that only 90ish guilds went for the 2nd Krayt Raid and panicked..

    Game managers:
    "we gotta get more people to play the raid!"

    Developers:
    "are our rewards THAT bad as reddit/forums/YouTube/Discord/Twitch say????"

    Beancounters:
    "Can't increase rewards."

    Developers:
    "let's switch the reward tracks for Guilds and individual players so now the Guild officers can nag their guild mates instead of us incentivizing the raid!!!!"

    High fives around....

    /end scene

  • Options
    If we can’t run every single raid at once, the rewards should be minimum every previous raid combined (including cPit) plus whatever we will get for the new raid itself. There should not be a reason for anyone to even consider for one second doing an older raid even at this stage where the new raid is difficult and we don’t have the necessary teams yet.
  • Options
    Anyone got any game recommendations that aren’t CG/EA, or am i just going back to chess an tafl
  • nottenst
    703 posts Member
    edited May 2023
    Options
    I am guessing from CG's point of view they saw everyone saying that guilds should choose the Sith Raid instead of their brand new Krayt Raid that they worked so hard on. That would be a major failure and so they rectified that situation.

    As far as rewards being equivalent or better than what we used to be getting through doing all of the raids, that did not seem to be a problem for them. I think just about everyone here things it is a problem and some people have tried to present some numbers.

    From the February Road Ahead:
    While we will reduce the amount of locations where you can earn rewards, we’ve taken this into close consideration so that actively participating in a raid, regardless of difficulty, will earn rewards from the Personal track that equal and replace the old "simmed" rewards - ensuring that all Players retain access to those goods. Playing at higher difficulties to earn more Points will steadily gain access to new, additional rewards. Guilds participating at a high level of difficulty will see more bountiful rewards than the total sum of prior raids.

    I don't think the original Personal track rewards "equal and replace" the old "simmed" rewards. Now, since most of them have been moved to the Guild Rewards, they certainly don't. Do they with the new Guild Rewards? No idea.

    Now, the question is whether there are "more bountiful rewards than the total sum of prior raids". I think the burden of showing that is the case should fall to a CG representative.
  • Options
    are they giving us normal raid currency? its really needed lol
  • beli631
    31 posts Member
    edited May 2023
    Options
    Lets not forget that players now need to gear up raid characters and need to work much harder for similar prizes.
  • IkamuzU
    18 posts Member
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    This new raid should have brought economy gear change 3.0 but instead we got economy gear change -1.0.

  • AveDavid55
    7 posts Member
    edited May 2023
    Options
    For the first time ever, I'm really thinking about quitting this game. And, if CG thought that many people would go to their new LOTR game in that case, they are sorely mistaken. I haven't seen such a vile, dismissive, disrespectful attitude towards their customers anywhere else.
    Calculations have been made, arguments have been made, millions of posts have been created here, on reddit, Twitch, youtube. Every sane person sees that the new rewards - a total crap, a new store, a new raid, new badges currency - mockery of the player. Dozens of fixes have been proposed...
    The first spit in face on May 4 could still be explained somehow: none of them play the game, they have problems with intelligence, with calculations, they have a hard time with math and so on.
    But the way they "changed the raid system after receiving complaints" tells us only one thing clearly: they hate us. They hate us with all their hearts. Well, CG, goodbye.
  • Options
    Probably it was addressed but why keep the Sith RAID on for 3 days since we finish it in 20 min ??? with that animations running from one cinematic to another ... i just hope its just a BUG.
  • rokota
    166 posts Member
    Options
    The updated raid rewards are a step in the right direction but beside the (already mentioned) lack of currencies i am missing all of these green and blue fully crafted mats we can use to change it into bronzium wires :|

    This gear isn't in the mk1 rotation, and can actually only bought with old guild tokens or get1, and both of these aren't in raid rewards anymore.

    The bronzium wires are a huge bottleneck, and just get enough mats for with farming takes forever :s
  • Options
    They cut the rewards by 70%. After the community called them out, they returned 20%. At the end of the day, they cut our rewards by 50%. And they think they can get away with this.

    Tell the truth - you made up those numbers didn't you? Can you show me some actual math that supports the statement that they cut our rewards by 50%? If you can't show us how you arrived at these numbers then stop using them. It's simply not true.

    I do think we're getting less now - and I'm not happy about that - but we've got much greater access to a lot of things that we didn't have before AND we have a choice of what rewards we take and when we take them. It's going to take some time to figure out exactly where the new pressure points are and formulate a strategy to work around them.

    In my opinion there are still things that CG needs to do to right the boat - more consistent access to bronzium wire scrap, credits, and ship building materials for instance - but throwing out ridiculous numbers just ensures that they'll ignore your post and might actually convince another player who hasn't done their due diligence that you're stating facts, when you aren't. All that does is create noise that makes the conversation more difficult to parse for someone that cares to try.

    kukoc2929 wrote: »
    Probably it was addressed but why keep the Sith RAID on for 3 days since we finish it in 20 min ??? with that animations running from one cinematic to another ... i just hope its just a BUG.

    This is an artifact of retro-fitting the old raid system into the new one. It won't change and if you think about it - it wouldn't matter if it did - your guild can still only earn raid tickets at a fixed maximum rate. If everyone always got 600 tickets a day and your guild is full, at best you would be able to launch it every three days. So instead of getting your rewards an hour after someone cleared the raid, now you get your raid rewards right before the next one starts. Your employer probably does the same thing with your paychecks. There's literally no difference except for that first raid - you have to wait a couple of days for the rewards. After that, you're back on schedule and it never matters again.

    I'm not sure why people are so focused on this - this is literally a non-issue but it's taking up a lot of oxygen in the conversation.
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
  • Options
    They cut the rewards by 70%. After the community called them out, they returned 20%. At the end of the day, they cut our rewards by 50%. And they think they can get away with this.

    Tell the truth - you made up those numbers didn't you? Can you show me some actual math that supports the statement that they cut our rewards by 50%? If you can't show us how you arrived at these numbers then stop using them. It's simply not true.

    I do think we're getting less now - and I'm not happy about that - but we've got much greater access to a lot of things that we didn't have before AND we have a choice of what rewards we take and when we take them. It's going to take some time to figure out exactly where the new pressure points are and formulate a strategy to work around them.

    In my opinion there are still things that CG needs to do to right the boat - more consistent access to bronzium wire scrap, credits, and ship building materials for instance - but throwing out ridiculous numbers just ensures that they'll ignore your post and might actually convince another player who hasn't done their due diligence that you're stating facts, when you aren't. All that does is create noise that makes the conversation more difficult to parse for someone that cares to try.

    kukoc2929 wrote: »
    Probably it was addressed but why keep the Sith RAID on for 3 days since we finish it in 20 min ??? with that animations running from one cinematic to another ... i just hope its just a BUG.

    This is an artifact of retro-fitting the old raid system into the new one. It won't change and if you think about it - it wouldn't matter if it did - your guild can still only earn raid tickets at a fixed maximum rate. If everyone always got 600 tickets a day and your guild is full, at best you would be able to launch it every three days. So instead of getting your rewards an hour after someone cleared the raid, now you get your raid rewards right before the next one starts. Your employer probably does the same thing with your paychecks. There's literally no difference except for that first raid - you have to wait a couple of days for the rewards. After that, you're back on schedule and it never matters again.

    I'm not sure why people are so focused on this - this is literally a non-issue but it's taking up a lot of oxygen in the conversation.

    Maybe he made up those numbers to be facetious like CG is doing with their rewards equal to all previous raids calculations statement. It is a nerf no matter how many times they move the boxes around. They know it, we know it, and to me made things worse. Strike two.
  • CaesarAM
    251 posts Member
    Options
    If the personal reward track is more or less meaningless now, how about just use that for credits and and ship currency? Seems like an easy solution.
  • Gawejn
    1125 posts Member
    edited May 2023
    Options
    So i decided to make my own math couse i didnt belive many cool guys with spreadsheets
    I callculated how much mk1 we were getting before in 30 days for 4 raids. My base data was max tickets for 30 days, no full gear from pit and haat ( 28 carbantis, 50 nubian), 8 th place in hstr and credits from cpit. Data was inluding credits, ship credits, mods materials, gear for g8 g12 from pit, haat hstr that can be obtain for mk1. So far the number is 115k mk1 what i was getting. Now i can get 86k per month so 29k mk1 less in rewards. It means for a year of playing it is 348k less mk1. It is 4 months rewards that are gone. So 33% NERF IN MK1. I didnt have time to calculate mk2 and mk3. I also didnt calculate get1 and get2. Maybe later couse i would love to see how much big nerf is for mk2.
    If they would bring back credits than nerf would be much less only 15k per month so like 17%.
    Not so happy about this so far. 4 months of rewards for mk1 are gone.
    Post edited by Gawejn on
  • Options
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    They cut the rewards by 70%. After the community called them out, they returned 20%. At the end of the day, they cut our rewards by 50%. And they think they can get away with this.

    Tell the truth - you made up those numbers didn't you? Can you show me some actual math that supports the statement that they cut our rewards by 50%? If you can't show us how you arrived at these numbers then stop using them. It's simply not true.

    I do think we're getting less now - and I'm not happy about that - but we've got much greater access to a lot of things that we didn't have before AND we have a choice of what rewards we take and when we take them. It's going to take some time to figure out exactly where the new pressure points are and formulate a strategy to work around them.

    In my opinion there are still things that CG needs to do to right the boat - more consistent access to bronzium wire scrap, credits, and ship building materials for instance - but throwing out ridiculous numbers just ensures that they'll ignore your post and might actually convince another player who hasn't done their due diligence that you're stating facts, when you aren't. All that does is create noise that makes the conversation more difficult to parse for someone that cares to try.

    kukoc2929 wrote: »
    Probably it was addressed but why keep the Sith RAID on for 3 days since we finish it in 20 min ??? with that animations running from one cinematic to another ... i just hope its just a BUG.

    This is an artifact of retro-fitting the old raid system into the new one. It won't change and if you think about it - it wouldn't matter if it did - your guild can still only earn raid tickets at a fixed maximum rate. If everyone always got 600 tickets a day and your guild is full, at best you would be able to launch it every three days. So instead of getting your rewards an hour after someone cleared the raid, now you get your raid rewards right before the next one starts. Your employer probably does the same thing with your paychecks. There's literally no difference except for that first raid - you have to wait a couple of days for the rewards. After that, you're back on schedule and it never matters again.

    I'm not sure why people are so focused on this - this is literally a non-issue but it's taking up a lot of oxygen in the conversation.

    Maybe he made up those numbers to be facetious like CG is doing with their rewards equal to all previous raids calculations statement. It is a nerf no matter how many times they move the boxes around. They know it, we know it, and to me made things worse. Strike two.

    Except, unless I'm mistaken, the math proves out their statement that it replaces simmed rewards. I'm pretty sure that's not in doubt - the 'nerf' only comes into play if you were doing HSTR and CPit AND can't hit a minimum box threshold in the new raid. But they're making that easier by shifting rewards forward on the reward track and lowering the thresholds for the prize boxes. Their statement was true that the overall rewards for Krayt haven't changed - but how many people were reaching the 130m box? what? 3500 people total? The break even point is now attainable and even surpassable by a LARGE number of guilds. The lower boxes will now reward MORE in raid currency than HSTR pays out, don't they? So we don't have to do CPit or HSTR anymore and we can play the new content and still get roughly equal or better value to what we were getting before.

    I don't see how that's not a win. CPit was miserable and HSTR is as tired as my fase. I'm really REALLY glad my guild doesn't have to do HSTR any more - we've been clearing that raid with barely a thought for years now. Good riddance. (to be fair it was a great raid when it was fresh)
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
  • Gawejn
    1125 posts Member
    Options
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    They cut the rewards by 70%. After the community called them out, they returned 20%. At the end of the day, they cut our rewards by 50%. And they think they can get away with this.

    Tell the truth - you made up those numbers didn't you? Can you show me some actual math that supports the statement that they cut our rewards by 50%? If you can't show us how you arrived at these numbers then stop using them. It's simply not true.

    I do think we're getting less now - and I'm not happy about that - but we've got much greater access to a lot of things that we didn't have before AND we have a choice of what rewards we take and when we take them. It's going to take some time to figure out exactly where the new pressure points are and formulate a strategy to work around them.

    In my opinion there are still things that CG needs to do to right the boat - more consistent access to bronzium wire scrap, credits, and ship building materials for instance - but throwing out ridiculous numbers just ensures that they'll ignore your post and might actually convince another player who hasn't done their due diligence that you're stating facts, when you aren't. All that does is create noise that makes the conversation more difficult to parse for someone that cares to try.

    kukoc2929 wrote: »
    Probably it was addressed but why keep the Sith RAID on for 3 days since we finish it in 20 min ??? with that animations running from one cinematic to another ... i just hope its just a BUG.

    This is an artifact of retro-fitting the old raid system into the new one. It won't change and if you think about it - it wouldn't matter if it did - your guild can still only earn raid tickets at a fixed maximum rate. If everyone always got 600 tickets a day and your guild is full, at best you would be able to launch it every three days. So instead of getting your rewards an hour after someone cleared the raid, now you get your raid rewards right before the next one starts. Your employer probably does the same thing with your paychecks. There's literally no difference except for that first raid - you have to wait a couple of days for the rewards. After that, you're back on schedule and it never matters again.

    I'm not sure why people are so focused on this - this is literally a non-issue but it's taking up a lot of oxygen in the conversation.

    Maybe he made up those numbers to be facetious like CG is doing with their rewards equal to all previous raids calculations statement. It is a nerf no matter how many times they move the boxes around. They know it, we know it, and to me made things worse. Strike two.

    Except, unless I'm mistaken, the math proves out their statement that it replaces simmed rewards. I'm pretty sure that's not in doubt - the 'nerf' only comes into play if you were doing HSTR and CPit AND can't hit a minimum box threshold in the new raid. But they're making that easier by shifting rewards forward on the reward track and lowering the thresholds for the prize boxes. Their statement was true that the overall rewards for Krayt haven't changed - but how many people were reaching the 130m box? what? 3500 people total? The break even point is now attainable and even surpassable by a LARGE number of guilds. The lower boxes will now reward MORE in raid currency than HSTR pays out, don't they? So we don't have to do CPit or HSTR anymore and we can play the new content and still get roughly equal or better value to what we were getting before.

    I don't see how that's not a win. CPit was miserable and HSTR is as tired as my fase. I'm really REALLY glad my guild doesn't have to do HSTR any more - we've been clearing that raid with barely a thought for years now. Good riddance. (to be fair it was a great raid when it was fresh)

    For 25mil in krayt guild gets less around 33% mk1 than before. So it can be 21k less if you do 9 raids in month. So 3 months less rewards in a year...
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