Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I haven't heard anyone from those guilds complaining (except for some that shouldn't be doing Krayt anyways)...... The HSTR is still available and all that did that as their "best" raid can still do it no?
This is a competitive game, so no, not everyone is "equally important" in terms of rewards.... The more you work on your roster, the better your rewards should be..... CG has already done a ton to help newbies catch up, it shouldn't bleed into top end raids....
It's really simple, if you dont do well in Krayt then do HSTR.....
I really need credits, im under 5 million for a long time and im not spending any.
Dont quote me with "yOu Can BUy ThEM oN tHe guILD StOre" because i cant, i saw only one time since the new raid is on.
I really need credits, im under 5 million for a long time and im not spending any.
Dont quote me with "yOu Can BUy ThEM oN tHe guILD StOre" because i cant, i saw only one time since the new raid is on.
This isn’t the issue. Players who need credits don’t need direction on where to buy them.
The system isn’t going to change now, but I’m not happy for those that need credits and gear. It’s problematic
I haven't heard anyone from those guilds complaining (except for some that shouldn't be doing Krayt anyways)...... The HSTR is still available and all that did that as their "best" raid can still do it no?
This is a competitive game, so no, not everyone is "equally important" in terms of rewards.... The more you work on your roster, the better your rewards should be..... CG has already done a ton to help newbies catch up, it shouldn't bleed into top end raids....
It's really simple, if you dont do well in Krayt then do HSTR.....
That’s why all discussions is about credits and MK1, it’s not screaming about MK2-3,R8-9 or something esle. It’s credits, something that was passively available all this time. Krayt and Sith have no difference on it. And late game players who leveled up most of their troops just didn’t feel it like lower game player. When 1-85 - ~6m+ credits for one character. And full squad ~30m credits.
Credits is an issue. Big issue.
And once again - 2M credits will balanced rewards. Just it, nothing extra.
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I haven't heard anyone from those guilds complaining (except for some that shouldn't be doing Krayt anyways)...... The HSTR is still available and all that did that as their "best" raid can still do it no?
This is a competitive game, so no, not everyone is "equally important" in terms of rewards.... The more you work on your roster, the better your rewards should be..... CG has already done a ton to help newbies catch up, it shouldn't bleed into top end raids....
It's really simple, if you dont do well in Krayt then do HSTR.....
Of course those guilds/players said something. Just read all the comments here. These are not just small players posting here.
What you say would be true if it were something new that was not here before. But it all falls apart because these people already got the rewards before and had them taken/diminished. That's a huge difference!
Especially considering that it even effects 200-300M guilds which are in no way beginners!
If a guild already earned specific rewards they already worked for that and built their roster for that. If CG then suddenly moves the goalposts and takes them away you can not say they don't get the rewards because they are not good enough. Many of those guilds did beat CPit so no, Sith is not the best they could beat. Why do I even have to repeat all this? The forums and other places are full with thousands of people already explaining this.
Also you speak about what CG has done to "help" new players yet you seem to miss what this does exactly to new players. The missing credits and other missing rewards they lose will impact them greatly, so CG just set them farther back then they were before the gear changes. One step forward 3 steps back... great. And please do not repeat again that they can buy credits. This means they will have to choose instead of getting both as before. Like I said just because it is the same for you as before, it is not for them. If they get a smaller box than your guild they will not get the same as before if they have to use their tokens for credits -or- gear.
Hi, while the new raid is interesting and its economy has been improved, doing one raid every 3 days have other consequences. For example, credit has been significantly scarce, it also affects all of the Guild tokens, Guild events tokens (MK1-MK3), and last but not least the character shards.
Is there any way to address the effect of the raid changes on Credit, Guilds token, and Guild events tokens (MK1-MK3)? Potentially allow having more than 1 raid like before or even better to have both old format and new format raids at the same time. If it is not possible, can it be possible to add credits, Guild tokens, and Guild events tokens (MK1-MK3) to new rewards boxes?
the biggest loss for me is all the fully crafted gear pieces. i'm one of those guys that actually did the sith raid every time (or, almost every time) so this change, for me, is a big loss, especially in G12 gear. my guild is only scoring 30+M in Krayt so it'll be ages before i can hit the supposed 130M break even point.
with the complete gutting of the personal reward track it seems to me that something should be added back in there to give greater incentive to push a little harder each time. how about adding a loot box to each personal reward tier (or every third one, or whatever) that will have a chance to give us those missing full gear pieces. (just don't scale them to give better rewards at higher levels). They could also throw in a bit of everything else people are mad about missing out on now.
I know that people have done the math and shown that, on average, this system works out well enough but for the thousands of people like me who toiled away in the sith raid, that same math showed that we'll be losing around half the G12 that we're used to getting.
a little acknowlegement from GC that many of us are getting shafted by this new system would be nice and a loot box with a crafted G12 piece every now and then would go a long way towards that.
I have 2 accounts. Smaller is 4,7mil gp and on this account credits are the problem after 3 weeks of change in raids. I would lvl up few toons but i cant. Couse there is no steady income of credits. I dont lvl up mods couse i dont have credits, so working on mods is out of the table. It wasnt like this. That is my expierience after 3 weeks.
I really need credits, im under 5 million for a long time and im not spending any.
Dont quote me with "yOu Can BUy ThEM oN tHe guILD StOre" because i cant, i saw only one time since the new raid is on.
You can buy them in the squad store
No, really?? omg this changes everything, the 300k credit/day will solve all my problems, i will be able to slice mods and lvl up toons, while buying prestige, valuable gear and toons from the squad shop. So smart.
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I said it was unchanged FOR ME. And i was told multiple times I was wrong.
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I really don’t understand your default position on foruming.
Any time someone disagrees with the general sentiment of a thread, you are outraged that they are “drowning out legitimate criticism” - especially when it comes to the difference between end game players and anyone that is not end game.
But isn’t your outrage also drowning out a legitimate point of view? Aren’t people entitled to state their own views or experiences? Why do you accuse anyone doing so of “generalising everyone in relation to themselves” even when they clearly are not doing this?
From the outside looking in, admonishing anyone who states a view that’s different to yours might be considered hypocritical.
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I really don’t understand your default position on foruming.
Any time someone disagrees with the general sentiment of a thread, you are outraged that they are “drowning out legitimate criticism” - especially when it comes to the difference between end game players and anyone that is not end game.
But isn’t your outrage also drowning out a legitimate point of view? Aren’t people entitled to state their own views or experiences? Why do you accuse anyone doing so of “generalising everyone in relation to themselves” even when they clearly are not doing this?
From the outside looking in, admonishing anyone who states a view that’s different to yours might be considered hypocritical.
I never said they can't post their opinion. I just see a problem with them sonetimes making it seem as if somehow their opinion counts more than the rest.
I just don't understand their foruming to be honest. If it is not a problem for them it seems they conclude then it must not be a problem for others and they seem to forget that they are further advanced than many other players. That alone should give them a clue enough that it might not be wise to use their experience as a represantation for everyone or that it somehow changes how the experiences of others are.
Also there is no problem in stating that it is no problem for you, but to repeat that many times just seems like they want to further establish that it is ok then?
And no I don't write any time that they drown them out but I very well point it out when I see it, which btw is also my right. Because again I deeply question why it is so important to them to repeat over and over again how it is all good for them and that somehow they don't seem to understand how it then can not be ok for others.
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I said it was unchanged FOR ME. And i was told multiple times I was wrong.
So how does it feel?
Which part
The majority of your comments have been criticizing others for their experiences with raid economy changes, questioning their math, and trying to downplay or quiet anything that you don't agree with.
And when it happens to you, you complain about it. That's hypicrical. So how does it feel?
Why don't you just bow out and let others express what they've experienced. You're not here to advocate CG's causes, and if you are, no one's listening.
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I really don’t understand your default position on foruming.
Any time someone disagrees with the general sentiment of a thread, you are outraged that they are “drowning out legitimate criticism” - especially when it comes to the difference between end game players and anyone that is not end game.
But isn’t your outrage also drowning out a legitimate point of view? Aren’t people entitled to state their own views or experiences? Why do you accuse anyone doing so of “generalising everyone in relation to themselves” even when they clearly are not doing this?
From the outside looking in, admonishing anyone who states a view that’s different to yours might be considered hypocritical.
I never said they can't post their opinion. I just see a problem with them sonetimes making it seem as if somehow their opinion counts more than the rest.
I just don't understand their foruming to be honest. If it is not a problem for them it seems they conclude then it must not be a problem for others and they seem to forget that they are further advanced than many other players. That alone should give them a clue enough that it might not be wise to use their experience as a represantation for everyone or that it somehow changes how the experiences of others are.
Also there is no problem in stating that it is no problem for you, but to repeat that many times just seems like they want to further establish that it is ok then?
And no I don't write any time that they drown them out but I very well point it out when I see it, which btw is also my right. Because again I deeply question why it is so important to them to repeat over and over again how it is all good for them and that somehow they don't seem to understand how it then can not be ok for others.
1) the poster in question repeatedly pointed out that the raid rewards were roughly the same for them . I don’t know why you are accusing them of “using their experience as a representation for everyone”, or “changing the experience of others”. They are 100% not doing that, no matter how often you accuse them of it.
2) you used the words “drown out” in this thread and in many others. Please don’t say that you didn’t.
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I really don’t understand your default position on foruming.
Any time someone disagrees with the general sentiment of a thread, you are outraged that they are “drowning out legitimate criticism” - especially when it comes to the difference between end game players and anyone that is not end game.
But isn’t your outrage also drowning out a legitimate point of view? Aren’t people entitled to state their own views or experiences? Why do you accuse anyone doing so of “generalising everyone in relation to themselves” even when they clearly are not doing this?
From the outside looking in, admonishing anyone who states a view that’s different to yours might be considered hypocritical.
I never said they can't post their opinion. I just see a problem with them sonetimes making it seem as if somehow their opinion counts more than the rest.
I just don't understand their foruming to be honest. If it is not a problem for them it seems they conclude then it must not be a problem for others and they seem to forget that they are further advanced than many other players. That alone should give them a clue enough that it might not be wise to use their experience as a represantation for everyone or that it somehow changes how the experiences of others are.
Also there is no problem in stating that it is no problem for you, but to repeat that many times just seems like they want to further establish that it is ok then?
And no I don't write any time that they drown them out but I very well point it out when I see it, which btw is also my right. Because again I deeply question why it is so important to them to repeat over and over again how it is all good for them and that somehow they don't seem to understand how it then can not be ok for others.
1) the poster in question repeatedly pointed out that the raid rewards were roughly the same for them . I don’t know why you are accusing them of “using their experience as a representation for everyone”, or “changing the experience of others”. They are 100% not doing that, no matter how often you accuse them of it.
2) you used the words “drown out” in this thread and in many others. Please don’t say that you didn’t.
It reads like this:
People explain what to them seems wrong with the changes and they explain it in detail
-shrug- It is the same for me so I don't understand why it is a problem for others
People again try to explain why
-shrug- It is the same for me, I have no problems...
And so on
You can not tell me that you don't see that. People feel not taken seriously eventhough they explained why. This is not the first time either and if someone does not mean it that way, fair enough but they should understand how it comes across... and that is exactly why I am pointing it out. Maybe they don't realise how it comes across for some, but the fact that many feel they have to explain again that it is not ok how the rewards are and why is proof, that it comes across to them that way.
And again, I use it when I see it but not as you said "every time" or "many other threads". Just because I used it a few times over the course of 2 years when I felt it was warranted, does not make it every time because that is not true.
-shrug- It is the same for me, I have no problems...
I appreciate that you are paraphrasing, but would you mind pointing out any post from TVF that was even remotely expressing this sentiment?
Someone posted on this thread that they hadn’t seen any calculations that showed rewards were even equal to what we got before, but TVF pointed out that for him, earning the 130m box would give him basically the same rewards as before.
Why would posting a factual response to a blanket statement suggest people aren’t being taken seriously? If that statement comes across to you in that manner, I really don’t think TVF should have to think about how he phrases things to account for your interpretation and spin on a factual statement.
And again, I use it when I see it but not as you said "every time" or "many other threads". Just because I used it a few times over the course of 2 years when I felt it was warranted, does not make it every time because that is not true.
It is obviously not true in this case, yet you used it.
Also, lol at the concept of anyone “drowning out” the forum-wide outcry about the new raid reward system.
I went back and forth with TVF on Discord for a week about these rewards. We’ve got our disagreements about them ( his personal experience is bad and he should feel bad). But he has the best collection of data on pre-raid rewards of anyone I’ve seen, and a solid analysis of their value in the new system. He also was getting the max possible rewards in the old system. If other people are coming up with different numbers on what they used to get, I don’t think it’s different personal experiences, I think they’re just wrong and basing their reactions on things like the very rare full furnace drop, the single most expensive piece that could drop from the old system, instead of the rewards averaged over time.
Now as for whether the new system is better or not, yeah, the answer will be that depends. For new players that can’t get the 17m box but got top 10 every HSTR and could do CPit, yeah it’s a little bit worse for Mk1 till their guild can hit the 17m box. It’s also only a hit if about 5%. For everyone else they’re now getting slightly better Mk1 rewards. There are some downsides, like needing to check the store for credits instead of getting them passively. Or the slot machine feel of hitting on a big piece. But there are upsides too, like being able to just get the gear you need instead of a bunch of pieces that are just more chromium relic mats when what you need is Stun Guns.
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I really don’t understand your default position on foruming.
Any time someone disagrees with the general sentiment of a thread, you are outraged that they are “drowning out legitimate criticism” - especially when it comes to the difference between end game players and anyone that is not end game.
But isn’t your outrage also drowning out a legitimate point of view? Aren’t people entitled to state their own views or experiences? Why do you accuse anyone doing so of “generalising everyone in relation to themselves” even when they clearly are not doing this?
From the outside looking in, admonishing anyone who states a view that’s different to yours might be considered hypocritical.
I never said they can't post their opinion. I just see a problem with them sonetimes making it seem as if somehow their opinion counts more than the rest.
I just don't understand their foruming to be honest. If it is not a problem for them it seems they conclude then it must not be a problem for others and they seem to forget that they are further advanced than many other players. That alone should give them a clue enough that it might not be wise to use their experience as a represantation for everyone or that it somehow changes how the experiences of others are.
Also there is no problem in stating that it is no problem for you, but to repeat that many times just seems like they want to further establish that it is ok then?
And no I don't write any time that they drown them out but I very well point it out when I see it, which btw is also my right. Because again I deeply question why it is so important to them to repeat over and over again how it is all good for them and that somehow they don't seem to understand how it then can not be ok for others.
1) the poster in question repeatedly pointed out that the raid rewards were roughly the same for them . I don’t know why you are accusing them of “using their experience as a representation for everyone”, or “changing the experience of others”. They are 100% not doing that, no matter how often you accuse them of it.
2) you used the words “drown out” in this thread and in many others. Please don’t say that you didn’t.
It reads like this:
People explain what to them seems wrong with the changes and they explain it in detail
-shrug- It is the same for me so I don't understand why it is a problem for others
People again try to explain why
-shrug- It is the same for me, I have no problems...
And so on
You can not tell me that you don't see that. People feel not taken seriously eventhough they explained why. This is not the first time either and if someone does not mean it that way, fair enough but they should understand how it comes across... and that is exactly why I am pointing it out. Maybe they don't realise how it comes across for some, but the fact that many feel they have to explain again that it is not ok how the rewards are and why is proof, that it comes across to them that way.
And again, I use it when I see it but not as you said "every time" or "many other threads". Just because I used it a few times over the course of 2 years when I felt it was warranted, does not make it every time because that is not true.
This is really the core of the issue, and the complaints. Who this hurts is stronger accounts in weaker guilds, specifically. Everyone else seems to be making out better overall.
If they make sure to patch up that segment of the player population in future tweaks, most of the complaints will stop.
And no, don't say "just get in a better guild" - there are many valid reasons for stronger players to stay in more casual guilds, not to mention its a matter of personal choice. And it provides a gateway for newer players to get into the game, get some good mentorship, and move up if they desire It's an important part of the overall game ecosystem and player development, that shouldn't be disregarded.
I went back and forth with TVF on Discord for a week about these rewards. We’ve got our disagreements about them ( his personal experience is bad and he should feel bad). But he has the best collection of data on pre-raid rewards of anyone I’ve seen, and a solid analysis of their value in the new system. He also was getting the max possible rewards in the old system. If other people are coming up with different numbers on what they used to get, I don’t think it’s different personal experiences, I think they’re just wrong and basing their reactions on things like the very rare full furnace drop, the single most expensive piece that could drop from the old system, instead of the rewards averaged over time.
Now as for whether the new system is better or not, yeah, the answer will be that depends. For new players that can’t get the 17m box but got top 10 every HSTR and could do CPit, yeah it’s a little bit worse for Mk1 till their guild can hit the 17m box. It’s also only a hit if about 5%. For everyone else they’re now getting slightly better Mk1 rewards. There are some downsides, like needing to check the store for credits instead of getting them passively. Or the slot machine feel of hitting on a big piece. But there are upsides too, like being able to just get the gear you need instead of a bunch of pieces that are just more chromium relic mats when what you need is Stun Guns.
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I really don’t understand your default position on foruming.
Any time someone disagrees with the general sentiment of a thread, you are outraged that they are “drowning out legitimate criticism” - especially when it comes to the difference between end game players and anyone that is not end game.
But isn’t your outrage also drowning out a legitimate point of view? Aren’t people entitled to state their own views or experiences? Why do you accuse anyone doing so of “generalising everyone in relation to themselves” even when they clearly are not doing this?
From the outside looking in, admonishing anyone who states a view that’s different to yours might be considered hypocritical.
I never said they can't post their opinion. I just see a problem with them sonetimes making it seem as if somehow their opinion counts more than the rest.
I just don't understand their foruming to be honest. If it is not a problem for them it seems they conclude then it must not be a problem for others and they seem to forget that they are further advanced than many other players. That alone should give them a clue enough that it might not be wise to use their experience as a represantation for everyone or that it somehow changes how the experiences of others are.
Also there is no problem in stating that it is no problem for you, but to repeat that many times just seems like they want to further establish that it is ok then?
And no I don't write any time that they drown them out but I very well point it out when I see it, which btw is also my right. Because again I deeply question why it is so important to them to repeat over and over again how it is all good for them and that somehow they don't seem to understand how it then can not be ok for others.
1) the poster in question repeatedly pointed out that the raid rewards were roughly the same for them . I don’t know why you are accusing them of “using their experience as a representation for everyone”, or “changing the experience of others”. They are 100% not doing that, no matter how often you accuse them of it.
2) you used the words “drown out” in this thread and in many others. Please don’t say that you didn’t.
It reads like this:
People explain what to them seems wrong with the changes and they explain it in detail
-shrug- It is the same for me so I don't understand why it is a problem for others
People again try to explain why
-shrug- It is the same for me, I have no problems...
And so on
You can not tell me that you don't see that. People feel not taken seriously eventhough they explained why. This is not the first time either and if someone does not mean it that way, fair enough but they should understand how it comes across... and that is exactly why I am pointing it out. Maybe they don't realise how it comes across for some, but the fact that many feel they have to explain again that it is not ok how the rewards are and why is proof, that it comes across to them that way.
And again, I use it when I see it but not as you said "every time" or "many other threads". Just because I used it a few times over the course of 2 years when I felt it was warranted, does not make it every time because that is not true.
I certainly have an opinion on how people are shutting out TVFs input here - he's done more diligent and meticulous tracking and monitoring of his raid income than probably 80% of the people who are offering nothing but snark and derailing the thread. But everyone seems to be hitting this from their own angle - so can we all agree that people are doing different math for different circumstances and move the thread back on track?
I think we were talking about how there's no credits available as direct rewards from raids anymore and how that somehow means that the rewards aren't equal.
FWIW, I hate that I have to be proactive about trading currency for credits now. That's annoying additional tedium that I don't want. For myself, I come down on the side of the equation that points to the rewards surpassing or being roughly equal to what I was getting before. That's great for me and all but and it's also completely not the point.
My beef is having to actually think about it and be proactive about it. It's one more thing that I need to micromanage and that's annoying. There's already plenty of that going on in this game and there was never any need or benefit of adding more, with the exception of people that have billions of credits saved up who don't have to worry about this issue for quite a while anyway. Obviously CG feels differently about that - so if we could just get a dedicated slot for credits, another for ship credits, and another for training droids (is this even necessary after you've been playing for more than 60 days?) - and offer higher denominations than 1m/500k - I think that would make all of this much more palatable.
Regardless of what raid rewards you're getting - whether they are equal to, greater than, or less than what you were getting before - would that not be an improvement to what we all have to deal with now with regard to trading raid currency for credits?
F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I said it was unchanged FOR ME. And i was told multiple times I was wrong.
So how does it feel?
Which part
The majority of your comments have been criticizing others for their experiences with raid economy changes, questioning their math, and trying to downplay or quiet anything that you don't agree with.
And when it happens to you, you complain about it. That's hypicrical. So how does it feel?
Why don't you just bow out and let others express what they've experienced. You're not here to advocate CG's causes, and if you are, no one's listening.
I have done none of this, other than questioning someone's unclear math.
However, when someone makes incorrect statements about what I've said, I am going to point out that it is wrong.
Express what you've experienced all you want.
And no, I'm not here to advocate CG's causes. I'm here to present my experience. Why don't you let me do so.
I’ve genuinely got no sense of how big a population that is. Are there a bunch of players who were clearing guilds that cleared CPit but can’t hit 17m now? And will they be stuck there for a while. If so, yeah it’s a very modest hit to their income which would kind of suck. But I do think it’s balanced by the quality of the Mk 1 drops in the new system.
This is really the core of the issue, and the complaints. Who this hurts is stronger accounts in weaker guilds, specifically. Everyone else seems to be making out better overall.
If they make sure to patch up that segment of the player population in future tweaks, most of the complaints will stop.
And no, don't say "just get in a better guild" - there are many valid reasons for stronger players to stay in more casual guilds, not to mention its a matter of personal choice. And it provides a gateway for newer players to get into the game, get some good mentorship, and move up if they desire It's an important part of the overall game ecosystem and player development, that shouldn't be disregarded.
I went back and forth with TVF on Discord for a week about these rewards. We’ve got our disagreements about them ( his personal experience is bad and he should feel bad). But he has the best collection of data on pre-raid rewards of anyone I’ve seen, and a solid analysis of their value in the new system. He also was getting the max possible rewards in the old system. If other people are coming up with different numbers on what they used to get, I don’t think it’s different personal experiences, I think they’re just wrong and basing their reactions on things like the very rare full furnace drop, the single most expensive piece that could drop from the old system, instead of the rewards averaged over time.
Now as for whether the new system is better or not, yeah, the answer will be that depends. For new players that can’t get the 17m box but got top 10 every HSTR and could do CPit, yeah it’s a little bit worse for Mk1 till their guild can hit the 17m box. It’s also only a hit if about 5%. For everyone else they’re now getting slightly better Mk1 rewards. There are some downsides, like needing to check the store for credits instead of getting them passively. Or the slot machine feel of hitting on a big piece. But there are upsides too, like being able to just get the gear you need instead of a bunch of pieces that are just more chromium relic mats when what you need is Stun Guns.
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I really don’t understand your default position on foruming.
Any time someone disagrees with the general sentiment of a thread, you are outraged that they are “drowning out legitimate criticism” - especially when it comes to the difference between end game players and anyone that is not end game.
But isn’t your outrage also drowning out a legitimate point of view? Aren’t people entitled to state their own views or experiences? Why do you accuse anyone doing so of “generalising everyone in relation to themselves” even when they clearly are not doing this?
From the outside looking in, admonishing anyone who states a view that’s different to yours might be considered hypocritical.
I never said they can't post their opinion. I just see a problem with them sonetimes making it seem as if somehow their opinion counts more than the rest.
I just don't understand their foruming to be honest. If it is not a problem for them it seems they conclude then it must not be a problem for others and they seem to forget that they are further advanced than many other players. That alone should give them a clue enough that it might not be wise to use their experience as a represantation for everyone or that it somehow changes how the experiences of others are.
Also there is no problem in stating that it is no problem for you, but to repeat that many times just seems like they want to further establish that it is ok then?
And no I don't write any time that they drown them out but I very well point it out when I see it, which btw is also my right. Because again I deeply question why it is so important to them to repeat over and over again how it is all good for them and that somehow they don't seem to understand how it then can not be ok for others.
1) the poster in question repeatedly pointed out that the raid rewards were roughly the same for them . I don’t know why you are accusing them of “using their experience as a representation for everyone”, or “changing the experience of others”. They are 100% not doing that, no matter how often you accuse them of it.
2) you used the words “drown out” in this thread and in many others. Please don’t say that you didn’t.
It reads like this:
People explain what to them seems wrong with the changes and they explain it in detail
-shrug- It is the same for me so I don't understand why it is a problem for others
People again try to explain why
-shrug- It is the same for me, I have no problems...
And so on
You can not tell me that you don't see that. People feel not taken seriously eventhough they explained why. This is not the first time either and if someone does not mean it that way, fair enough but they should understand how it comes across... and that is exactly why I am pointing it out. Maybe they don't realise how it comes across for some, but the fact that many feel they have to explain again that it is not ok how the rewards are and why is proof, that it comes across to them that way.
And again, I use it when I see it but not as you said "every time" or "many other threads". Just because I used it a few times over the course of 2 years when I felt it was warranted, does not make it every time because that is not true.
I went back and forth with TVF on Discord for a week about these rewards. We’ve got our disagreements about them ( his personal experience is bad and he should feel bad). But he has the best collection of data on pre-raid rewards of anyone I’ve seen, and a solid analysis of their value in the new system. He also was getting the max possible rewards in the old system. If other people are coming up with different numbers on what they used to get, I don’t think it’s different personal experiences, I think they’re just wrong and basing their reactions on things like the very rare full furnace drop, the single most expensive piece that could drop from the old system, instead of the rewards averaged over time.
Now as for whether the new system is better or not, yeah, the answer will be that depends. For new players that can’t get the 17m box but got top 10 every HSTR and could do CPit, yeah it’s a little bit worse for Mk1 till their guild can hit the 17m box. It’s also only a hit if about 5%. For everyone else they’re now getting slightly better Mk1 rewards. There are some downsides, like needing to check the store for credits instead of getting them passively. Or the slot machine feel of hitting on a big piece. But there are upsides too, like being able to just get the gear you need instead of a bunch of pieces that are just more chromium relic mats when what you need is Stun Guns.
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I really don’t understand your default position on foruming.
Any time someone disagrees with the general sentiment of a thread, you are outraged that they are “drowning out legitimate criticism” - especially when it comes to the difference between end game players and anyone that is not end game.
But isn’t your outrage also drowning out a legitimate point of view? Aren’t people entitled to state their own views or experiences? Why do you accuse anyone doing so of “generalising everyone in relation to themselves” even when they clearly are not doing this?
From the outside looking in, admonishing anyone who states a view that’s different to yours might be considered hypocritical.
I never said they can't post their opinion. I just see a problem with them sonetimes making it seem as if somehow their opinion counts more than the rest.
I just don't understand their foruming to be honest. If it is not a problem for them it seems they conclude then it must not be a problem for others and they seem to forget that they are further advanced than many other players. That alone should give them a clue enough that it might not be wise to use their experience as a represantation for everyone or that it somehow changes how the experiences of others are.
Also there is no problem in stating that it is no problem for you, but to repeat that many times just seems like they want to further establish that it is ok then?
And no I don't write any time that they drown them out but I very well point it out when I see it, which btw is also my right. Because again I deeply question why it is so important to them to repeat over and over again how it is all good for them and that somehow they don't seem to understand how it then can not be ok for others.
1) the poster in question repeatedly pointed out that the raid rewards were roughly the same for them . I don’t know why you are accusing them of “using their experience as a representation for everyone”, or “changing the experience of others”. They are 100% not doing that, no matter how often you accuse them of it.
2) you used the words “drown out” in this thread and in many others. Please don’t say that you didn’t.
It reads like this:
People explain what to them seems wrong with the changes and they explain it in detail
-shrug- It is the same for me so I don't understand why it is a problem for others
People again try to explain why
-shrug- It is the same for me, I have no problems...
And so on
You can not tell me that you don't see that. People feel not taken seriously eventhough they explained why. This is not the first time either and if someone does not mean it that way, fair enough but they should understand how it comes across... and that is exactly why I am pointing it out. Maybe they don't realise how it comes across for some, but the fact that many feel they have to explain again that it is not ok how the rewards are and why is proof, that it comes across to them that way.
And again, I use it when I see it but not as you said "every time" or "many other threads". Just because I used it a few times over the course of 2 years when I felt it was warranted, does not make it every time because that is not true.
@Lumiya read this post (specifically the second half, since you have no interest in end game players)
And no, don't say "just get in a better guild" - there are many valid reasons for stronger players to stay in more casual guilds, not to mention its a matter of personal choice. And it provides a gateway for newer players to get into the game, get some good mentorship, and move up if they desire It's an important part of the overall game ecosystem and player development, that shouldn't be disregarded.
I went back and forth with TVF on Discord for a week about these rewards. We’ve got our disagreements about them ( his personal experience is bad and he should feel bad). But he has the best collection of data on pre-raid rewards of anyone I’ve seen, and a solid analysis of their value in the new system. He also was getting the max possible rewards in the old system. If other people are coming up with different numbers on what they used to get, I don’t think it’s different personal experiences, I think they’re just wrong and basing their reactions on things like the very rare full furnace drop, the single most expensive piece that could drop from the old system, instead of the rewards averaged over time.
Now as for whether the new system is better or not, yeah, the answer will be that depends. For new players that can’t get the 17m box but got top 10 every HSTR and could do CPit, yeah it’s a little bit worse for Mk1 till their guild can hit the 17m box. It’s also only a hit if about 5%. For everyone else they’re now getting slightly better Mk1 rewards. There are some downsides, like needing to check the store for credits instead of getting them passively. Or the slot machine feel of hitting on a big piece. But there are upsides too, like being able to just get the gear you need instead of a bunch of pieces that are just more chromium relic mats when what you need is Stun Guns.
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I really don’t understand your default position on foruming.
Any time someone disagrees with the general sentiment of a thread, you are outraged that they are “drowning out legitimate criticism” - especially when it comes to the difference between end game players and anyone that is not end game.
But isn’t your outrage also drowning out a legitimate point of view? Aren’t people entitled to state their own views or experiences? Why do you accuse anyone doing so of “generalising everyone in relation to themselves” even when they clearly are not doing this?
From the outside looking in, admonishing anyone who states a view that’s different to yours might be considered hypocritical.
I never said they can't post their opinion. I just see a problem with them sonetimes making it seem as if somehow their opinion counts more than the rest.
I just don't understand their foruming to be honest. If it is not a problem for them it seems they conclude then it must not be a problem for others and they seem to forget that they are further advanced than many other players. That alone should give them a clue enough that it might not be wise to use their experience as a represantation for everyone or that it somehow changes how the experiences of others are.
Also there is no problem in stating that it is no problem for you, but to repeat that many times just seems like they want to further establish that it is ok then?
And no I don't write any time that they drown them out but I very well point it out when I see it, which btw is also my right. Because again I deeply question why it is so important to them to repeat over and over again how it is all good for them and that somehow they don't seem to understand how it then can not be ok for others.
1) the poster in question repeatedly pointed out that the raid rewards were roughly the same for them . I don’t know why you are accusing them of “using their experience as a representation for everyone”, or “changing the experience of others”. They are 100% not doing that, no matter how often you accuse them of it.
2) you used the words “drown out” in this thread and in many others. Please don’t say that you didn’t.
It reads like this:
People explain what to them seems wrong with the changes and they explain it in detail
-shrug- It is the same for me so I don't understand why it is a problem for others
People again try to explain why
-shrug- It is the same for me, I have no problems...
And so on
You can not tell me that you don't see that. People feel not taken seriously eventhough they explained why. This is not the first time either and if someone does not mean it that way, fair enough but they should understand how it comes across... and that is exactly why I am pointing it out. Maybe they don't realise how it comes across for some, but the fact that many feel they have to explain again that it is not ok how the rewards are and why is proof, that it comes across to them that way.
And again, I use it when I see it but not as you said "every time" or "many other threads". Just because I used it a few times over the course of 2 years when I felt it was warranted, does not make it every time because that is not true.
I agree with what you said in the most part, but don’t see that CG necessarily should do anything about this issue. IMO (and it’s only an opinion so I’m happy to agree to disagree) in some ways a guild is a resource just like any other to be managed. I’ve spent time as a big player in a small guild, and vice versa, and I agree it should be a matter of choice what sort of guild you choose to play in, but part of that is accepting that if you’re in a reward below your GP bracket then you’re likely to progress slower.
It’s not just raids where this comes into play either. In TB you’re likely to get lower stars or may even be doing the lower tier of TB, in TW you’ll be in a lower GP bracket with lower rewards respectively. It is a balance, but ultimately I think it should be up to the player to decide where they land, and it’s not incumbent on CG to provide better rewards if they choose to help out in a smaller guild.
Account started June 2020. 100% FTP. 8.2m GP. JMK, JML, SLKR, and SEE. Exe and Levi. Ally code 117-269-921. Swgoh.gg
I think we were talking about how there's no credits available as direct rewards from raids anymore and how that somehow means that the rewards aren't equal.
FWIW, I hate that I have to be proactive about trading currency for credits now. That's annoying additional tedium that I don't want. For myself, I come down on the side of the equation that points to the rewards surpassing or being roughly equal to what I was getting before. That's great for me and all but and it's also completely not the point.
I agree with that for sure, at least the credits are there but it's just one more thing to monitor and be proactive about....
I do love that we have more of a choice on buying the gear we need vs. crossing our fingers at rewards drop time... That's a huge added benefit that I think a lot of players overlook when factoring in the overall sum of the changes....
I also love the Costco size packs of gear at the bottom of the store
No, not in lieu of gear, because the amount of mk1 I am getting is roughly equivalent to the gear and credits I was getting previously.
MK1 amount is equal in Krayt and Sith and you in 130m crate receive same MK1 amount as all players who completed Sith. There is no way when this rewards unchanged for you but changed for someone else. (I strongly doubt that you have different update than me)
Or may be you compensate it with cost of MK2-3 but this is not I’ve talking about. I’ve provided my math but feeling that it’s just wasn’t readed. But my statement didn’t changed - rewards is less than it was and it could be balanced with addition of 2M credits to crate(Krayt&Sith).
No, not in lieu of gear, because the amount of mk1 I am getting is roughly equivalent to the gear and credits I was getting previously.
MK1 amount is equal in Krayt and Sith and you in 130m crate receive same MK1 amount as all players who completed Sith. There is no way when this rewards unchanged for you but changed for someone else. (I strongly doubt that you have different update than me)
Or may be you compensate it with cost of MK2-3 but this is not I’ve talking about. I’ve provided my math but feeling that it’s just wasn’t readed. But my statement didn’t changed - rewards is less than it was and it could be balanced with addition of 2M credits to crate(Krayt&Sith).
So per week I was earning the equivalent of 19,274 mk1 from the legacy raids. To buy all the things I was previously getting I would need to match this per week from the new raid. Since HSTR and Krayt provide the same amount of mk1 we can ignore which one my guild runs.
Average tickets per week (data from our ticket officer): 29k per day x 7 days = 203k
Number of raids run per week = 203k / 90k = 2.26
mk1 earned per raid = 8475
mk1 earned per week = 8475 x 2.26 = 19,154
So I'm short 570 mk1 per week. If you want to use that number to claim I'm wrong, ok, but I will counter with two points
1) Choice of gear is worth a tax. I don't think it's worth what CG seems to think it is worth, but it is worth something, and 570 mk1 seems fair.
2) From a practical standpoint, I have no need for the lesser core gear, of which i have more than i could ever use at this point. So let's take it out and see what happens.
Old legacy total = 19724
Subtract lesser core gear = -3283
New legacy total = 16,441
Now the Krayt is actually giving me 2,713 more mk1. Maybe the answer lies somewhere in the middle - maybe I can't just ignore that gear, but it's not worth 22/unit for me, so let's use the value of mk8 (s) instead
Old legacy total = 19,724
Subtract 9/unit to downgrade from mk5 caller to mk8 bio (s) = -1290
New legacy total = 18,434
Replies
Maybe not but it definitely has to do with how big your guild is/which reward Box they get.
A lot of middle and small guilds and accounts(and maybe even bigger guilds/accounts?) are not as lucky as you and they get less than before.
It is good that you get the same as before but just because you do, please don't assume that it is the same for everyone or drown out their legitimate criticism.
I don't mean this in any way as an attack on you, I just don't understand why you generalise everyone in relation to you/your experience/your account/ your guild.
You are not the Status Quo and everyone is equally important, which means others' different experiences are just as legitimate. So why even try to put them in relation to you?
I haven't heard anyone from those guilds complaining (except for some that shouldn't be doing Krayt anyways)...... The HSTR is still available and all that did that as their "best" raid can still do it no?
This is a competitive game, so no, not everyone is "equally important" in terms of rewards.... The more you work on your roster, the better your rewards should be..... CG has already done a ton to help newbies catch up, it shouldn't bleed into top end raids....
It's really simple, if you dont do well in Krayt then do HSTR.....
Dont quote me with "yOu Can BUy ThEM oN tHe guILD StOre" because i cant, i saw only one time since the new raid is on.
You can buy them in the squad store
The system isn’t going to change now, but I’m not happy for those that need credits and gear. It’s problematic
Credits is an issue. Big issue.
And once again - 2M credits will balanced rewards. Just it, nothing extra.
Of course those guilds/players said something. Just read all the comments here. These are not just small players posting here.
What you say would be true if it were something new that was not here before. But it all falls apart because these people already got the rewards before and had them taken/diminished. That's a huge difference!
Especially considering that it even effects 200-300M guilds which are in no way beginners!
If a guild already earned specific rewards they already worked for that and built their roster for that. If CG then suddenly moves the goalposts and takes them away you can not say they don't get the rewards because they are not good enough. Many of those guilds did beat CPit so no, Sith is not the best they could beat. Why do I even have to repeat all this? The forums and other places are full with thousands of people already explaining this.
Also you speak about what CG has done to "help" new players yet you seem to miss what this does exactly to new players. The missing credits and other missing rewards they lose will impact them greatly, so CG just set them farther back then they were before the gear changes. One step forward 3 steps back... great. And please do not repeat again that they can buy credits. This means they will have to choose instead of getting both as before. Like I said just because it is the same for you as before, it is not for them. If they get a smaller box than your guild they will not get the same as before if they have to use their tokens for credits -or- gear.
Is there any way to address the effect of the raid changes on Credit, Guilds token, and Guild events tokens (MK1-MK3)? Potentially allow having more than 1 raid like before or even better to have both old format and new format raids at the same time. If it is not possible, can it be possible to add credits, Guild tokens, and Guild events tokens (MK1-MK3) to new rewards boxes?
Cheers
with the complete gutting of the personal reward track it seems to me that something should be added back in there to give greater incentive to push a little harder each time. how about adding a loot box to each personal reward tier (or every third one, or whatever) that will have a chance to give us those missing full gear pieces. (just don't scale them to give better rewards at higher levels). They could also throw in a bit of everything else people are mad about missing out on now.
I know that people have done the math and shown that, on average, this system works out well enough but for the thousands of people like me who toiled away in the sith raid, that same math showed that we'll be losing around half the G12 that we're used to getting.
a little acknowlegement from GC that many of us are getting shafted by this new system would be nice and a loot box with a crafted G12 piece every now and then would go a long way towards that.
I said it was unchanged FOR ME. And i was told multiple times I was wrong.
Any time someone disagrees with the general sentiment of a thread, you are outraged that they are “drowning out legitimate criticism” - especially when it comes to the difference between end game players and anyone that is not end game.
But isn’t your outrage also drowning out a legitimate point of view? Aren’t people entitled to state their own views or experiences? Why do you accuse anyone doing so of “generalising everyone in relation to themselves” even when they clearly are not doing this?
From the outside looking in, admonishing anyone who states a view that’s different to yours might be considered hypocritical.
I never said they can't post their opinion. I just see a problem with them sonetimes making it seem as if somehow their opinion counts more than the rest.
I just don't understand their foruming to be honest. If it is not a problem for them it seems they conclude then it must not be a problem for others and they seem to forget that they are further advanced than many other players. That alone should give them a clue enough that it might not be wise to use their experience as a represantation for everyone or that it somehow changes how the experiences of others are.
Also there is no problem in stating that it is no problem for you, but to repeat that many times just seems like they want to further establish that it is ok then?
And no I don't write any time that they drown them out but I very well point it out when I see it, which btw is also my right. Because again I deeply question why it is so important to them to repeat over and over again how it is all good for them and that somehow they don't seem to understand how it then can not be ok for others.
The majority of your comments have been criticizing others for their experiences with raid economy changes, questioning their math, and trying to downplay or quiet anything that you don't agree with.
And when it happens to you, you complain about it. That's hypicrical. So how does it feel?
Why don't you just bow out and let others express what they've experienced. You're not here to advocate CG's causes, and if you are, no one's listening.
2) you used the words “drown out” in this thread and in many others. Please don’t say that you didn’t.
It reads like this:
People explain what to them seems wrong with the changes and they explain it in detail
-shrug- It is the same for me so I don't understand why it is a problem for others
People again try to explain why
-shrug- It is the same for me, I have no problems...
And so on
You can not tell me that you don't see that. People feel not taken seriously eventhough they explained why. This is not the first time either and if someone does not mean it that way, fair enough but they should understand how it comes across... and that is exactly why I am pointing it out. Maybe they don't realise how it comes across for some, but the fact that many feel they have to explain again that it is not ok how the rewards are and why is proof, that it comes across to them that way.
And again, I use it when I see it but not as you said "every time" or "many other threads". Just because I used it a few times over the course of 2 years when I felt it was warranted, does not make it every time because that is not true.
Someone posted on this thread that they hadn’t seen any calculations that showed rewards were even equal to what we got before, but TVF pointed out that for him, earning the 130m box would give him basically the same rewards as before.
Why would posting a factual response to a blanket statement suggest people aren’t being taken seriously? If that statement comes across to you in that manner, I really don’t think TVF should have to think about how he phrases things to account for your interpretation and spin on a factual statement.
It is obviously not true in this case, yet you used it.
Also, lol at the concept of anyone “drowning out” the forum-wide outcry about the new raid reward system.
Now as for whether the new system is better or not, yeah, the answer will be that depends. For new players that can’t get the 17m box but got top 10 every HSTR and could do CPit, yeah it’s a little bit worse for Mk1 till their guild can hit the 17m box. It’s also only a hit if about 5%. For everyone else they’re now getting slightly better Mk1 rewards. There are some downsides, like needing to check the store for credits instead of getting them passively. Or the slot machine feel of hitting on a big piece. But there are upsides too, like being able to just get the gear you need instead of a bunch of pieces that are just more chromium relic mats when what you need is Stun Guns.
If they make sure to patch up that segment of the player population in future tweaks, most of the complaints will stop.
And no, don't say "just get in a better guild" - there are many valid reasons for stronger players to stay in more casual guilds, not to mention its a matter of personal choice. And it provides a gateway for newer players to get into the game, get some good mentorship, and move up if they desire It's an important part of the overall game ecosystem and player development, that shouldn't be disregarded.
I think we were talking about how there's no credits available as direct rewards from raids anymore and how that somehow means that the rewards aren't equal.
FWIW, I hate that I have to be proactive about trading currency for credits now. That's annoying additional tedium that I don't want. For myself, I come down on the side of the equation that points to the rewards surpassing or being roughly equal to what I was getting before. That's great for me and all but and it's also completely not the point.
My beef is having to actually think about it and be proactive about it. It's one more thing that I need to micromanage and that's annoying. There's already plenty of that going on in this game and there was never any need or benefit of adding more, with the exception of people that have billions of credits saved up who don't have to worry about this issue for quite a while anyway. Obviously CG feels differently about that - so if we could just get a dedicated slot for credits, another for ship credits, and another for training droids (is this even necessary after you've been playing for more than 60 days?) - and offer higher denominations than 1m/500k - I think that would make all of this much more palatable.
Regardless of what raid rewards you're getting - whether they are equal to, greater than, or less than what you were getting before - would that not be an improvement to what we all have to deal with now with regard to trading raid currency for credits?
I have done none of this, other than questioning someone's unclear math.
However, when someone makes incorrect statements about what I've said, I am going to point out that it is wrong.
Express what you've experienced all you want.
And no, I'm not here to advocate CG's causes. I'm here to present my experience. Why don't you let me do so.
@Lumiya read this post (specifically the second half, since you have no interest in end game players)
I agree with what you said in the most part, but don’t see that CG necessarily should do anything about this issue. IMO (and it’s only an opinion so I’m happy to agree to disagree) in some ways a guild is a resource just like any other to be managed. I’ve spent time as a big player in a small guild, and vice versa, and I agree it should be a matter of choice what sort of guild you choose to play in, but part of that is accepting that if you’re in a reward below your GP bracket then you’re likely to progress slower.
It’s not just raids where this comes into play either. In TB you’re likely to get lower stars or may even be doing the lower tier of TB, in TW you’ll be in a lower GP bracket with lower rewards respectively. It is a balance, but ultimately I think it should be up to the player to decide where they land, and it’s not incumbent on CG to provide better rewards if they choose to help out in a smaller guild.
I agree with that for sure, at least the credits are there but it's just one more thing to monitor and be proactive about....
I do love that we have more of a choice on buying the gear we need vs. crossing our fingers at rewards drop time... That's a huge added benefit that I think a lot of players overlook when factoring in the overall sum of the changes....
I also love the Costco size packs of gear at the bottom of the store
Fun fact!
Or may be you compensate it with cost of MK2-3 but this is not I’ve talking about. I’ve provided my math but feeling that it’s just wasn’t readed. But my statement didn’t changed - rewards is less than it was and it could be balanced with addition of 2M credits to crate(Krayt&Sith).
I'll dig my numbers out just for you
Legacy raid data tracked from 2/13 to 4/25, a total of 72 days. Top 10 each HSTR. All data on a per/week basis. Mk1 equivalent rewards only.
Guild tokens: 10,246
Credits: 5,643k
Ship credits: 425k
Core gear (mk3 carb, mk3 cuff, mk4 comm, mk5 gun, mk5 det, mk8 binoc, mk8 bio (c), mk9 bio): 147.2
Lesser core gear (mk5 droid caller, mk8 bio (s), mk9 datapad): 143.3
Slicing mats (bond pin, fusion disk, control chip, fusion cell): 101.2
CONVERSION TO MK1 EQUIVALENTS
Guild tokens (basis mk3 carb, 22 mk1/unit): 8051
Credits (0.625 mk1/unit): 3527
Ship credits (1.752/unit): 744
Core gear (basis mk3 carb, 22 mk1/unit): 3238
Lesser core gear (basis mk5 droid caller, 22 mk1/unit): 3153
Slicing mats (10 mk1/unit): 1011
Grand total = 19,724
So per week I was earning the equivalent of 19,274 mk1 from the legacy raids. To buy all the things I was previously getting I would need to match this per week from the new raid. Since HSTR and Krayt provide the same amount of mk1 we can ignore which one my guild runs.
Average tickets per week (data from our ticket officer): 29k per day x 7 days = 203k
Number of raids run per week = 203k / 90k = 2.26
mk1 earned per raid = 8475
mk1 earned per week = 8475 x 2.26 = 19,154
So I'm short 570 mk1 per week. If you want to use that number to claim I'm wrong, ok, but I will counter with two points
1) Choice of gear is worth a tax. I don't think it's worth what CG seems to think it is worth, but it is worth something, and 570 mk1 seems fair.
2) From a practical standpoint, I have no need for the lesser core gear, of which i have more than i could ever use at this point. So let's take it out and see what happens.
Old legacy total = 19724
Subtract lesser core gear = -3283
New legacy total = 16,441
Now the Krayt is actually giving me 2,713 more mk1. Maybe the answer lies somewhere in the middle - maybe I can't just ignore that gear, but it's not worth 22/unit for me, so let's use the value of mk8 (s) instead
Old legacy total = 19,724
Subtract 9/unit to downgrade from mk5 caller to mk8 bio (s) = -1290
New legacy total = 18,434
Now the Krayt is giving me 720 mk1.