I don’t see how RNG is killing the fun. No rng = no decisions while playing manually, you’d just press buttons in the same order everytime once you’ll get your mods right.
You answer your own question...there are no decisions...you play exactly the same, sometimes you get 150k, others you get 350k...no change in team, tactic or anything else...just RNG. If you want the 350k you need to replay the same thing several times...and this several times every week. (numbers may change as team gets better, but issue remains). I get you need to play ONCE well to get the 350k...but have to do it every raid is simply not fun.
AGAIN...not a protest...i keep playing, and have fun everywhere else...just a strong suggestion to change this...as i think the majority feels the same...
I would say for me remodding 4 teams for raid and from raid every 3 days is dropping desire to play it somewhere below 0 + rng is making a final headshot.
And for the guild in total more raids go on the more people have to be pushed "last hour" to reach 130 mln
AGAIN...this is the gist of the message. I can admit the intentions were good...the "abbility" to select best score was an apparent good idea. But it becomes a moot point if most players end up submitting "whatever" due to annoyance or boredom.
END RESULT needs a fix as player OVERALL frustration is increasing...and if next raid is the same, it will probably mean players wont even make the initial "investment". I did some investment in teams for this raid...i wont do it again if the boredom/annoyance are the same.
Good suggestion somewhere above...allow players to submit LAST SCORE. Then they can invest on good teams and good runs (which i believe is the objective) without the need to do it EVERY WEEK and LOTS of times.
Or at least to be able to post the best score in this run. I've had instances where that alone would have been something.
I don’t see how RNG is killing the fun. No rng = no decisions while playing manually, you’d just press buttons in the same order everytime once you’ll get your mods right. Doing this twice a week would get really boring very fast.
Don’t retry a bunch of times, get lower rewards sometimes and enjoy the thrill of uncertainty.
In Krayt there is no different option, you exactly do that: you just press buttons in the same order every time... and hope for good RNG or restart/retry. That's exactly the point/reason for this whole thread.
Look, whether you get crit or not, and thus how much damage you take, is random. This leads to decisions about which player to heal (or give immunity to, from BAM) that are different every run.
So do player decisions matter? Absolutely yes.
I also used to struggle to get close to max with Jabba. I was constantly getting between 1.50 and 1.75, with an occasional rare outlier maxing it out at 1.8 without me really understanding how I got there. It felt entirely RNG dependent.
What happened? I talked to my guild mates and based on conversations I remodded one toon an reprioritized certain abilities. Now it never takes me more than 2 tries to max out the Jabba squad and I get 1.8 on the first try a good 4 times out of 5.
Did the game suddenly have less RNG? Or did my play matter?
Obviously my play mattered. If you think it's all RNG, you're wrong. There are things you can do to maximize your chances of getting the score you want.
For the people who are frustrated, I hear you. I'm not saying you don't get to be frustrated. But for the people who are saying it's all RNG, that's just not the case. I wasn't playing the raid as well as I could, and I learned to do better. I'm not magical. I don't have some unique "get better at SWGOH" superpower. You can do it too, if that's what you want.
Of course, the game is a game. By definition if it's not fun, you should be changing how you play (or whether you play) to try to maximize the fun. Personally I blow off GAC b/c that's not where I get my fun in this game. It costs me crystals, but I'm still fine with that. It would cost me more crystals to completely burn out and quit.
If the Krayt raid is killing the fun and learning the raid better isn't what you want to do, that's fine. Don't do that. Do something else fun.
But I want you to know you have the option. The raid isn't all RNG or my scores would never have gotten better.
Look, whether you get crit or not, and thus how much damage you take, is random. This leads to decisions about which player to heal (or give immunity to, from BAM) that are different every run.
So do player decisions matter? Absolutely yes.
I also used to struggle to get close to max with Jabba. I was constantly getting between 1.50 and 1.75, with an occasional rare outlier maxing it out at 1.8 without me really understanding how I got there. It felt entirely RNG dependent.
What happened? I talked to my guild mates and based on conversations I remodded one toon an reprioritized certain abilities. Now it never takes me more than 2 tries to max out the Jabba squad and I get 1.8 on the first try a good 4 times out of 5.
Did the game suddenly have less RNG? Or did my play matter?
Obviously my play mattered. If you think it's all RNG, you're wrong. There are things you can do to maximize your chances of getting the score you want.
For the people who are frustrated, I hear you. I'm not saying you don't get to be frustrated. But for the people who are saying it's all RNG, that's just not the case. I wasn't playing the raid as well as I could, and I learned to do better. I'm not magical. I don't have some unique "get better at SWGOH" superpower. You can do it too, if that's what you want.
Of course, the game is a game. By definition if it's not fun, you should be changing how you play (or whether you play) to try to maximize the fun. Personally I blow off GAC b/c that's not where I get my fun in this game. It costs me crystals, but I'm still fine with that. It would cost me more crystals to completely burn out and quit.
If the Krayt raid is killing the fun and learning the raid better isn't what you want to do, that's fine. Don't do that. Do something else fun.
But I want you to know you have the option. The raid isn't all RNG or my scores would never have gotten better.
Here we get to the point(s) I find important:
People want to know what happens to the Raid exactly to be able to make a decision: Do I invest in my Raid teams or not?
As long as this point is not clear I understand everyone who hesitates to invest and therefor is a lot more RNG riddled.
Which brings me to my next point: For you it was "just" remodding and a (little) change in tactics, for others it is more than that. Not everyone has Jabba, not everyone has the required toons for the Raid at (high) Relic levels or even all of them at 7*. Which brings us back to my first point.
Also as a side note: the Raid has different power levels to accomodate for smaller players but if the only way to be less at the mercy of RNGesus is to have "perfect" mods and some end game toons or higher Relics even in lower power levels, it is quite clear that many players will struggle with the RNG factor and will have situations where they have to restart again and again, which this whole thread proves.
I just can use me as an example: I only have 3 teams I can use. Only one of those is fully reliced and I can not use it in the highes oower level because not everyone in that team is R7 or more. This team is the one I need to make a good score in order to get over 1M with all of my teams so I can get the 1M personal reward.
The other 2 teams don't have a strong synergy and they contribute to my overall score but they are not really strong, I can only play them at the lowest power level because not everyone of them is reliced.
So yes, I am very much RNG dependent as long as I don't know if it is worth it to invest in them/as long as I don't have Jabba. Even gozu mods would not be able to change that (and my main team has very good mods).
I don’t see how RNG is killing the fun. No rng = no decisions while playing manually, you’d just press buttons in the same order everytime once you’ll get your mods right. Doing this twice a week would get really boring very fast.
Don’t retry a bunch of times, get lower rewards sometimes and enjoy the thrill of uncertainty.
What desicions do you make on Dragon based on RNG? I can see only 1: to restart or end up with lower rewards.
But can't say that this is a very fun desicion
I won’t give you a blow by blow report, but especially with Mandos and Tuskens, every battle is different after the opening /shrug
The other 2 teams don't have a strong synergy and they contribute to my overall score but they are not really strong, I can only play them at the lowest power level because not everyone of them is reliced.
There are 2 tiers you can play if all your toons are not relic, so you don’t need to use the lowest tier.
I don’t see how RNG is killing the fun. No rng = no decisions while playing manually, you’d just press buttons in the same order everytime once you’ll get your mods right. Doing this twice a week would get really boring very fast.
Don’t retry a bunch of times, get lower rewards sometimes and enjoy the thrill of uncertainty.
In Krayt there is no different option, you exactly do that: you just press buttons in the same order every time... and hope for good RNG or restart/retry. That's exactly the point/reason for this whole thread.
This is quite a telling statement. Deciding when to use a detonator to cleanse your team; when to use certain special moves that, for example, remove TM / buffs from the Dragon; which character to swap TM to; are just some examples of “options” in the Krayt raid. If you’re not engaging with the mechanics enough to realise that, it’s no wonder you’re getting frustrated.
Sure there is RNG, but there are good and bad ways to respond to RNG. Waiting for all the different RNG elements to align with one of your previous attempts without responding to the circumstances when they unfold differently is something of your doing, not CG’s.
As for your other points re: squad investment, surely that’s the way the game goes? Those who have invested get better rewards and less frustration than those who haven’t.
Look, whether you get crit or not, and thus how much damage you take, is random. This leads to decisions about which player to heal (or give immunity to, from BAM) that are different every run.
So do player decisions matter? Absolutely yes.
I also used to struggle to get close to max with Jabba. I was constantly getting between 1.50 and 1.75, with an occasional rare outlier maxing it out at 1.8 without me really understanding how I got there. It felt entirely RNG dependent.
What happened? I talked to my guild mates and based on conversations I remodded one toon an reprioritized certain abilities. Now it never takes me more than 2 tries to max out the Jabba squad and I get 1.8 on the first try a good 4 times out of 5.
Did the game suddenly have less RNG? Or did my play matter?
Obviously my play mattered. If you think it's all RNG, you're wrong. There are things you can do to maximize your chances of getting the score you want.
For the people who are frustrated, I hear you. I'm not saying you don't get to be frustrated. But for the people who are saying it's all RNG, that's just not the case. I wasn't playing the raid as well as I could, and I learned to do better. I'm not magical. I don't have some unique "get better at SWGOH" superpower. You can do it too, if that's what you want.
Of course, the game is a game. By definition if it's not fun, you should be changing how you play (or whether you play) to try to maximize the fun. Personally I blow off GAC b/c that's not where I get my fun in this game. It costs me crystals, but I'm still fine with that. It would cost me more crystals to completely burn out and quit.
If the Krayt raid is killing the fun and learning the raid better isn't what you want to do, that's fine. Don't do that. Do something else fun.
But I want you to know you have the option. The raid isn't all RNG or my scores would never have gotten better.
Previously most of the time I was doing 2,7 with Jabba+oBoushh from 1st try with ease.
Last raid I spend 3 times doing 2,2-2,5 with the same team, mods and strategy. Get bored, submitted result
This raid I started with the same team again and again was getting 2,5-2,2-2,6...
It took me in total 7 retries to get max score.
There was no change in mods, units or strategy.
And, based on your believes, no rng.
So, what should I do to maximise my chances and return from "7 retries" back to "max results from 1 attempt"?
I am hitting t4 with my Old Republic team, yet it included R8 Revan and Z, R7 Basti and Jolee and R6 Mission. I have been trying different tactics and mods and even though I was able to get 1,2 several times there was no possibility to replicate that success and most of the time I was getting 900-1,1. And when I asked people who can get 2,7 with OR how much time they spent on that the answer was "up to several hours". And that OR team is an rng-fest. And when your team is at R8 there isn't much room for its improvement. All that + need to remod them for raid and then return mods back on dozen units very effectively killed my desire both to relic the rest of the team and touch them at all...
And I had very high hopes on them
I don’t see how RNG is killing the fun. No rng = no decisions while playing manually, you’d just press buttons in the same order everytime once you’ll get your mods right. Doing this twice a week would get really boring very fast.
Don’t retry a bunch of times, get lower rewards sometimes and enjoy the thrill of uncertainty.
What desicions do you make on Dragon based on RNG? I can see only 1: to restart or end up with lower rewards.
But can't say that this is a very fun desicion
I won’t give you a blow by blow report, but especially with Mandos and Tuskens, every battle is different after the opening /shrug
I don't have tuskens so I will just believe you
And my Mandos are mostly R5, so I sit on lower tire, but in there I hasn't noticed any real desision making like "if dragon did A my Armorer has to put beskar on BAM and if dragon did B then beskar should be on Bo".
And things like "on whom put immunity" also wasn't big decision for me, because that is usually the one who will survive the next big hit, there are not much options whom to save and not that it will make a huge difference at the end because 2 characters won't do a lot of damage before next hit anyway.
I know the pattern I should follow and I try to follow it. And if things are going differently - like dragon dazed Candy that usually meant such a drop in damage that its easier to restart.
But maybe I am just a player without imagination that doesn't know how to play Mandos and there is a huge variation of "how to do max damage" plans that I don't see.
Look, whether you get crit or not, and thus how much damage you take, is random. This leads to decisions about which player to heal (or give immunity to, from BAM) that are different every run.
So do player decisions matter? Absolutely yes.
I also used to struggle to get close to max with Jabba. I was constantly getting between 1.50 and 1.75, with an occasional rare outlier maxing it out at 1.8 without me really understanding how I got there. It felt entirely RNG dependent.
What happened? I talked to my guild mates and based on conversations I remodded one toon an reprioritized certain abilities. Now it never takes me more than 2 tries to max out the Jabba squad and I get 1.8 on the first try a good 4 times out of 5.
Did the game suddenly have less RNG? Or did my play matter?
Obviously my play mattered. If you think it's all RNG, you're wrong. There are things you can do to maximize your chances of getting the score you want.
For the people who are frustrated, I hear you. I'm not saying you don't get to be frustrated. But for the people who are saying it's all RNG, that's just not the case. I wasn't playing the raid as well as I could, and I learned to do better. I'm not magical. I don't have some unique "get better at SWGOH" superpower. You can do it too, if that's what you want.
Of course, the game is a game. By definition if it's not fun, you should be changing how you play (or whether you play) to try to maximize the fun. Personally I blow off GAC b/c that's not where I get my fun in this game. It costs me crystals, but I'm still fine with that. It would cost me more crystals to completely burn out and quit.
If the Krayt raid is killing the fun and learning the raid better isn't what you want to do, that's fine. Don't do that. Do something else fun.
But I want you to know you have the option. The raid isn't all RNG or my scores would never have gotten better.
And, based on your believes, no rng.
Can you show me where anyone claimed there was “no RnG”?
Look, whether you get crit or not, and thus how much damage you take, is random. This leads to decisions about which player to heal (or give immunity to, from BAM) that are different every run.
So do player decisions matter? Absolutely yes.
I also used to struggle to get close to max with Jabba. I was constantly getting between 1.50 and 1.75, with an occasional rare outlier maxing it out at 1.8 without me really understanding how I got there. It felt entirely RNG dependent.
What happened? I talked to my guild mates and based on conversations I remodded one toon an reprioritized certain abilities. Now it never takes me more than 2 tries to max out the Jabba squad and I get 1.8 on the first try a good 4 times out of 5.
Did the game suddenly have less RNG? Or did my play matter?
Obviously my play mattered. If you think it's all RNG, you're wrong. There are things you can do to maximize your chances of getting the score you want.
For the people who are frustrated, I hear you. I'm not saying you don't get to be frustrated. But for the people who are saying it's all RNG, that's just not the case. I wasn't playing the raid as well as I could, and I learned to do better. I'm not magical. I don't have some unique "get better at SWGOH" superpower. You can do it too, if that's what you want.
Of course, the game is a game. By definition if it's not fun, you should be changing how you play (or whether you play) to try to maximize the fun. Personally I blow off GAC b/c that's not where I get my fun in this game. It costs me crystals, but I'm still fine with that. It would cost me more crystals to completely burn out and quit.
If the Krayt raid is killing the fun and learning the raid better isn't what you want to do, that's fine. Don't do that. Do something else fun.
But I want you to know you have the option. The raid isn't all RNG or my scores would never have gotten better.
And, based on your believes, no rng.
Can you show me where anyone claimed there was “no RnG”?
"If you think it's all RNG, you're wrong"
I think, that 700k spread of numbers with the same team and strategy is all rng.
They also said “the raid isn’t all RNG”, which suggests that there is some RNG but we can do something to counteract it.
The reason I know it’s not all RNG is from my old guild. The same users were able to pull max scores with their teams, and others who routinely struggle with game mechanics couldn’t get max scores.
Look, whether you get crit or not, and thus how much damage you take, is random. This leads to decisions about which player to heal (or give immunity to, from BAM) that are different every run.
So do player decisions matter? Absolutely yes.
I also used to struggle to get close to max with Jabba. I was constantly getting between 1.50 and 1.75, with an occasional rare outlier maxing it out at 1.8 without me really understanding how I got there. It felt entirely RNG dependent.
What happened? I talked to my guild mates and based on conversations I remodded one toon an reprioritized certain abilities. Now it never takes me more than 2 tries to max out the Jabba squad and I get 1.8 on the first try a good 4 times out of 5.
Did the game suddenly have less RNG? Or did my play matter?
Obviously my play mattered. If you think it's all RNG, you're wrong. There are things you can do to maximize your chances of getting the score you want.
For the people who are frustrated, I hear you. I'm not saying you don't get to be frustrated. But for the people who are saying it's all RNG, that's just not the case. I wasn't playing the raid as well as I could, and I learned to do better. I'm not magical. I don't have some unique "get better at SWGOH" superpower. You can do it too, if that's what you want.
Of course, the game is a game. By definition if it's not fun, you should be changing how you play (or whether you play) to try to maximize the fun. Personally I blow off GAC b/c that's not where I get my fun in this game. It costs me crystals, but I'm still fine with that. It would cost me more crystals to completely burn out and quit.
If the Krayt raid is killing the fun and learning the raid better isn't what you want to do, that's fine. Don't do that. Do something else fun.
But I want you to know you have the option. The raid isn't all RNG or my scores would never have gotten better.
And, based on your believes, no rng.
Can you show me where anyone claimed there was “no RnG”?
"If you think it's all RNG, you're wrong"
I think, that 700k spread of numbers with the same team and strategy is all rng.
They also said “the raid isn’t all RNG”, which suggests that there is some RNG but we can do something to counteract it.
The reason I know it’s not all RNG is from my old guild. The same users were able to pull max scores with their teams, and others who routinely struggle with game mechanics couldn’t get max scores.
That is why I asked what should I do to counteract it.
And I am not comparing my team with someones team. I am comparing it with with itself.
So yes, I am very much RNG dependent as long as I don't know if it is worth it to invest in them/as long as I don't have Jabba. Even gozu mods would not be able to change that (and my main team has very good mods).
This is the fairest explanation of the "it's all RNG" position yet. I really appreciate it.
This actually clears things up in a way that I feel allows us to talk to each other. Obviously the raid isn't **all** RNG, or I couldn't have gotten better. So I hear people making that claim (and yes, people have said repeatedly that differences in raid scores are entirely down to RNG) and I can't take it seriously.
But this claim actually jibes with what I said -- that certain teams become reliable above a given relic level. Below that they are unreliable. I can't say whether they're "entirely RNG" at those lower relic tiers, but certainly RNG plays a much larger role for those low-relic/no-relic squads.
Anyway, I wanted to thank you for this, @Lumiya because this puts the conversation back on a reasonable footing where we're all working with the same facts: the lower relic squads are dramatically more RNG dependent. I still doubt that the lower level squads are **entirely** RNG dependent, but yes, I can see (and have seen in my own account when the raid first dropped) that certain bonuses that are granted to higher relic teams make them much more reliable, much less RNG dependent, provided certain basic strategies are followed.
There was no change in mods, units or strategy.
And, based on your believes, no rng.
So, what should I do to maximise my chances and return from "7 retries" back to "max results from 1 attempt"?
Well I definitely didn't say that there is no RNG. In fact, I specifically started out saying that there is RNG to which you have to respond (like which characters get hit, whether they're crits or normal hits, how soon to heal, etc.)
The next thing I have to say might be hard to hear: just because you have a consistent strategy doesn't mean it's the BEST strategy. There may be another strategy that hits 2.7M consistently. If you're using an inconsistent strategy that is still good enough to max out the score sometimes, then it's easily possible to hit max 3 times in a row and then only hit max 2 times out of the next 7 tries. If it's an unreliable strategy, then you're sometimes going to hit max and sometimes not, and which times you hit the max will come in clusters sometimes. Which means other times you'll hit a drought.
I really am sympathetic here. I want you to have the most fun possible. I opposed the idea that everything is RNG in part because I believe that it absolutely kills the fun when the player doesn't have the power to get better. When I went off on the Aphra event requiring dodges -- when there's no such thing as an evasion mod and no evasion in Hondo's mastery and so there was literally nothing a player could do to increase the chance of getting a dodge -- it was because I absolutely hate it when something is entirely RNG.
This raid isn't. There are better strategies and worse ones. I bet if you deliberately tried to sabotage your score you could score a lot lower. The mere fact that that is possible makes it clear that the raid isn't **all** RNG.
I don't need to determine how you respond to the raid. You can choose to get better or choose to ignore the raid -- whatever works for you.
I just want it to be your choice. I want you to see your options.
There was no change in mods, units or strategy.
And, based on your believes, no rng.
So, what should I do to maximise my chances and return from "7 retries" back to "max results from 1 attempt"?
The next thing I have to say might be hard to hear: just because you have a consistent strategy doesn't mean it's the BEST strategy. There may be another strategy that hits 2.7M consistently. If you're using an inconsistent strategy that is still good enough to max out the score sometimes, then it's easily possible to hit max 3 times in a row and then only hit max 2 times out of the next 7 tries. If it's an unreliable strategy, then you're sometimes going to hit max and sometimes not, and which times you hit the max will come in clusters sometimes. Which means other times you'll hit a drought.
You see, my strategy is working most of the times. Its not like I have problems with it every second time. I got R8 Jabba soon after raid launch and most of the time I got max from first or second try (if Krrs wont be freed because of several resists). But: during all that time there were exactly 2 times when after all long raw of first time max scores I suddenly started getting a raw of failures. First time there were 5 failed attempts, next - 6. Then everything is "fixed" and team is working grait again. So if strategy is "consistent" for a month, then suddenly became "inconsistent" for a day and then again "consistent" for weeks - that is what I call bad rng.
And its not like omi-Jabba's team has a lot of strategy variations. Jabba is doing basics only, Leia is doing basics only, Krrs is either applying bombs or being eaten, Boba is throwing rockets. If there is more complicated strategy I am all one big ear😃
And, also, if you have a consistent OR max reward strategy I am even bigger ear.
There was no change in mods, units or strategy.
And, based on your believes, no rng.
So, what should I do to maximise my chances and return from "7 retries" back to "max results from 1 attempt"?
The next thing I have to say might be hard to hear: just because you have a consistent strategy doesn't mean it's the BEST strategy. There may be another strategy that hits 2.7M consistently. If you're using an inconsistent strategy that is still good enough to max out the score sometimes, then it's easily possible to hit max 3 times in a row and then only hit max 2 times out of the next 7 tries. If it's an unreliable strategy, then you're sometimes going to hit max and sometimes not, and which times you hit the max will come in clusters sometimes. Which means other times you'll hit a drought.
You see, my strategy is working most of the times. Its not like I have problems with it every second time. I got R8 Jabba soon after raid launch and most of the time I got max from first or second try (if Krrs wont be freed because of several resists). But: during all that time there were exactly 2 times when after all long raw of first time max scores I suddenly started getting a raw of failures. First time there were 5 failed attempts, next - 6. Then everything is "fixed" and team is working grait again. So if strategy is "consistent" for a month, then suddenly became "inconsistent" for a day and then again "consistent" for weeks - that is what I call bad rng.
And its not like omi-Jabba's team has a lot of strategy variations. Jabba is doing basics only, Leia is doing basics only, Krrs is either applying bombs or being eaten, Boba is throwing rockets. If there is more complicated strategy I am all one big ear😃
And, also, if you have a consistent OR max reward strategy I am even bigger ear.
Straight away I notice my strategy is different in many respects.
I never get Krrs back, and the one turn he takes is using his second special to apply his debuff to Jabba.
My first move with Jabba is his 2nd special to apply buff immunity, and I have occasionally used his 1st special if I want to cleanse the rest of the team.
I use Leia’s special when the Dragon buries and save Boba’s rocket for when the Dragon has offence up.
Sometimes I still haven’t hit max even after Jabba’s 2nd Rancor summon, and at least twice I’ve actually hit max before the 2nd summon.
There was no change in mods, units or strategy.
And, based on your believes, no rng.
So, what should I do to maximise my chances and return from "7 retries" back to "max results from 1 attempt"?
The next thing I have to say might be hard to hear: just because you have a consistent strategy doesn't mean it's the BEST strategy. There may be another strategy that hits 2.7M consistently. If you're using an inconsistent strategy that is still good enough to max out the score sometimes, then it's easily possible to hit max 3 times in a row and then only hit max 2 times out of the next 7 tries. If it's an unreliable strategy, then you're sometimes going to hit max and sometimes not, and which times you hit the max will come in clusters sometimes. Which means other times you'll hit a drought.
You see, my strategy is working most of the times. Its not like I have problems with it every second time. I got R8 Jabba soon after raid launch and most of the time I got max from first or second try (if Krrs wont be freed because of several resists). But: during all that time there were exactly 2 times when after all long raw of first time max scores I suddenly started getting a raw of failures. First time there were 5 failed attempts, next - 6. Then everything is "fixed" and team is working grait again. So if strategy is "consistent" for a month, then suddenly became "inconsistent" for a day and then again "consistent" for weeks - that is what I call bad rng.
And its not like omi-Jabba's team has a lot of strategy variations. Jabba is doing basics only, Leia is doing basics only, Krrs is either applying bombs or being eaten, Boba is throwing rockets. If there is more complicated strategy I am all one big ear😃
And, also, if you have a consistent OR max reward strategy I am even bigger ear.
Straight away I notice my strategy is different in many respects.
I never get Krrs back, and the one turn he takes is using his second special to apply his debuff to Jabba.
My first move with Jabba is his 2nd special to apply buff immunity, and I have occasionally used his 1st special if I want to cleanse the rest of the team.
I use Leia’s special when the Dragon buries and save Boba’s rocket for when the Dragon has offence up.
Sometimes I still haven’t hit max even after Jabba’s 2nd Rancor summon, and at least twice I’ve actually hit max before the 2nd summon.
What is your Jabbas speed if you have 2 rancors + 2-3 s.abilities uses? 🤔
I have 1 rancor + 2 abilities before either I hit max (good ending) or dragon will kill everyone one way or enother (bad ending).
... Or you don't have oBoushh?
There was no change in mods, units or strategy.
And, based on your believes, no rng.
So, what should I do to maximise my chances and return from "7 retries" back to "max results from 1 attempt"?
The next thing I have to say might be hard to hear: just because you have a consistent strategy doesn't mean it's the BEST strategy. There may be another strategy that hits 2.7M consistently. If you're using an inconsistent strategy that is still good enough to max out the score sometimes, then it's easily possible to hit max 3 times in a row and then only hit max 2 times out of the next 7 tries. If it's an unreliable strategy, then you're sometimes going to hit max and sometimes not, and which times you hit the max will come in clusters sometimes. Which means other times you'll hit a drought.
You see, my strategy is working most of the times. Its not like I have problems with it every second time. I got R8 Jabba soon after raid launch and most of the time I got max from first or second try (if Krrs wont be freed because of several resists). But: during all that time there were exactly 2 times when after all long raw of first time max scores I suddenly started getting a raw of failures. First time there were 5 failed attempts, next - 6. Then everything is "fixed" and team is working grait again. So if strategy is "consistent" for a month, then suddenly became "inconsistent" for a day and then again "consistent" for weeks - that is what I call bad rng.
And its not like omi-Jabba's team has a lot of strategy variations. Jabba is doing basics only, Leia is doing basics only, Krrs is either applying bombs or being eaten, Boba is throwing rockets. If there is more complicated strategy I am all one big ear😃
And, also, if you have a consistent OR max reward strategy I am even bigger ear.
Straight away I notice my strategy is different in many respects.
I never get Krrs back, and the one turn he takes is using his second special to apply his debuff to Jabba.
My first move with Jabba is his 2nd special to apply buff immunity, and I have occasionally used his 1st special if I want to cleanse the rest of the team.
I use Leia’s special when the Dragon buries and save Boba’s rocket for when the Dragon has offence up.
Sometimes I still haven’t hit max even after Jabba’s 2nd Rancor summon, and at least twice I’ve actually hit max before the 2nd summon.
What is your Jabbas speed if you have 2 rancors + 2-3 s.abilities uses? 🤔
I have 1 rancor + 2 abilities before either I hit max (good ending) or dragon will kill everyone one way or enother (bad ending).
... Or you don't have oBoushh?
I also never get krrrs back neither and the only thing he does is putting the bombs back and then get eaten. I use Xaereth’s strat with a 4 men team (modding my team to get the same speed as his). I hit max score at 1st try about 90% of time, and usually don’t bother try again if i fail because still get pretty close.
When I bother to mod swap, his speed is 564. When I don’t, it’s only 520. Last 3 raids I’ve hit 2.7M without swapping mods so I’m not likely to bother anymore.
Remember Jabba gains additional ultimate charge when an ally uses a special ability, so sometimes Boushh using her special or Lando summoning more detonators after the dragon goes underground is the difference between getting 2nd Rancor and not getting it.
When I bother to mod swap, his speed is 564. When I don’t, it’s only 520. Last 3 raids I’ve hit 2.7M without swapping mods so I’m not likely to bother anymore.
Remember Jabba gains additional ultimate charge when an ally uses a special ability, so sometimes Boushh using her special or Lando summoning more detonators after the dragon goes underground is the difference between getting 2nd Rancor and not getting it.
Omicron is giving +400% offence
I am not really sure that with that you can strach battle long enough to get the secont ultimate...
When I bother to mod swap, his speed is 564. When I don’t, it’s only 520. Last 3 raids I’ve hit 2.7M without swapping mods so I’m not likely to bother anymore.
Remember Jabba gains additional ultimate charge when an ally uses a special ability, so sometimes Boushh using her special or Lando summoning more detonators after the dragon goes underground is the difference between getting 2nd Rancor and not getting it.
Omicron is giving +400% offence
I am not really sure that with that you can strach battle long enough to get the secont ultimate...
Hopefully now you see that there are many different strategies and that whilst RNG plays a part, it is not completely RNG.
Omicron is giving +400% offence
I am not really sure that with that you can strach battle long enough to get the secont ultimate...
I have the boushh omicron and I always follow the same sequence which gets me 2.7m reliably.
I never free krss and the dragon almost never gets to burrow.
I also never get to use jabba ult.
My sequence:
boba basic
jabba last special
leia basic
dragon spits (likely BI and blind krss)
krss last special
boba basic
skiff swap to krss
krss first special to taunt (to ensure he gets eaten)
jabba 1st special to cleanse all debuffs
dragon eats krss
leia basic
boba basic
jabba basic
skiff last special
jabba last special
leia basic
boba rocket
Usually the run is done.
If the dragon burrows destroy some bombs to surface him and finish him after. (this has happened to me 1x so far in all raid runs I've done)
Replies
AGAIN...not a protest...i keep playing, and have fun everywhere else...just a strong suggestion to change this...as i think the majority feels the same...
Or at least to be able to post the best score in this run. I've had instances where that alone would have been something.
In Krayt there is no different option, you exactly do that: you just press buttons in the same order every time... and hope for good RNG or restart/retry. That's exactly the point/reason for this whole thread.
So do player decisions matter? Absolutely yes.
I also used to struggle to get close to max with Jabba. I was constantly getting between 1.50 and 1.75, with an occasional rare outlier maxing it out at 1.8 without me really understanding how I got there. It felt entirely RNG dependent.
What happened? I talked to my guild mates and based on conversations I remodded one toon an reprioritized certain abilities. Now it never takes me more than 2 tries to max out the Jabba squad and I get 1.8 on the first try a good 4 times out of 5.
Did the game suddenly have less RNG? Or did my play matter?
Obviously my play mattered. If you think it's all RNG, you're wrong. There are things you can do to maximize your chances of getting the score you want.
For the people who are frustrated, I hear you. I'm not saying you don't get to be frustrated. But for the people who are saying it's all RNG, that's just not the case. I wasn't playing the raid as well as I could, and I learned to do better. I'm not magical. I don't have some unique "get better at SWGOH" superpower. You can do it too, if that's what you want.
Of course, the game is a game. By definition if it's not fun, you should be changing how you play (or whether you play) to try to maximize the fun. Personally I blow off GAC b/c that's not where I get my fun in this game. It costs me crystals, but I'm still fine with that. It would cost me more crystals to completely burn out and quit.
If the Krayt raid is killing the fun and learning the raid better isn't what you want to do, that's fine. Don't do that. Do something else fun.
But I want you to know you have the option. The raid isn't all RNG or my scores would never have gotten better.
Here we get to the point(s) I find important:
People want to know what happens to the Raid exactly to be able to make a decision: Do I invest in my Raid teams or not?
As long as this point is not clear I understand everyone who hesitates to invest and therefor is a lot more RNG riddled.
Which brings me to my next point: For you it was "just" remodding and a (little) change in tactics, for others it is more than that. Not everyone has Jabba, not everyone has the required toons for the Raid at (high) Relic levels or even all of them at 7*. Which brings us back to my first point.
Also as a side note: the Raid has different power levels to accomodate for smaller players but if the only way to be less at the mercy of RNGesus is to have "perfect" mods and some end game toons or higher Relics even in lower power levels, it is quite clear that many players will struggle with the RNG factor and will have situations where they have to restart again and again, which this whole thread proves.
I just can use me as an example: I only have 3 teams I can use. Only one of those is fully reliced and I can not use it in the highes oower level because not everyone in that team is R7 or more. This team is the one I need to make a good score in order to get over 1M with all of my teams so I can get the 1M personal reward.
The other 2 teams don't have a strong synergy and they contribute to my overall score but they are not really strong, I can only play them at the lowest power level because not everyone of them is reliced.
So yes, I am very much RNG dependent as long as I don't know if it is worth it to invest in them/as long as I don't have Jabba. Even gozu mods would not be able to change that (and my main team has very good mods).
I won’t give you a blow by blow report, but especially with Mandos and Tuskens, every battle is different after the opening /shrug
This is quite a telling statement. Deciding when to use a detonator to cleanse your team; when to use certain special moves that, for example, remove TM / buffs from the Dragon; which character to swap TM to; are just some examples of “options” in the Krayt raid. If you’re not engaging with the mechanics enough to realise that, it’s no wonder you’re getting frustrated.
Sure there is RNG, but there are good and bad ways to respond to RNG. Waiting for all the different RNG elements to align with one of your previous attempts without responding to the circumstances when they unfold differently is something of your doing, not CG’s.
As for your other points re: squad investment, surely that’s the way the game goes? Those who have invested get better rewards and less frustration than those who haven’t.
Previously most of the time I was doing 2,7 with Jabba+oBoushh from 1st try with ease.
Last raid I spend 3 times doing 2,2-2,5 with the same team, mods and strategy. Get bored, submitted result
This raid I started with the same team again and again was getting 2,5-2,2-2,6...
It took me in total 7 retries to get max score.
There was no change in mods, units or strategy.
And, based on your believes, no rng.
So, what should I do to maximise my chances and return from "7 retries" back to "max results from 1 attempt"?
I am hitting t4 with my Old Republic team, yet it included R8 Revan and Z, R7 Basti and Jolee and R6 Mission. I have been trying different tactics and mods and even though I was able to get 1,2 several times there was no possibility to replicate that success and most of the time I was getting 900-1,1. And when I asked people who can get 2,7 with OR how much time they spent on that the answer was "up to several hours". And that OR team is an rng-fest. And when your team is at R8 there isn't much room for its improvement. All that + need to remod them for raid and then return mods back on dozen units very effectively killed my desire both to relic the rest of the team and touch them at all...
And I had very high hopes on them
I don't have tuskens so I will just believe you
And my Mandos are mostly R5, so I sit on lower tire, but in there I hasn't noticed any real desision making like "if dragon did A my Armorer has to put beskar on BAM and if dragon did B then beskar should be on Bo".
And things like "on whom put immunity" also wasn't big decision for me, because that is usually the one who will survive the next big hit, there are not much options whom to save and not that it will make a huge difference at the end because 2 characters won't do a lot of damage before next hit anyway.
I know the pattern I should follow and I try to follow it. And if things are going differently - like dragon dazed Candy that usually meant such a drop in damage that its easier to restart.
But maybe I am just a player without imagination that doesn't know how to play Mandos and there is a huge variation of "how to do max damage" plans that I don't see.
The reason I know it’s not all RNG is from my old guild. The same users were able to pull max scores with their teams, and others who routinely struggle with game mechanics couldn’t get max scores.
That is why I asked what should I do to counteract it.
And I am not comparing my team with someones team. I am comparing it with with itself.
This is the fairest explanation of the "it's all RNG" position yet. I really appreciate it.
This actually clears things up in a way that I feel allows us to talk to each other. Obviously the raid isn't **all** RNG, or I couldn't have gotten better. So I hear people making that claim (and yes, people have said repeatedly that differences in raid scores are entirely down to RNG) and I can't take it seriously.
But this claim actually jibes with what I said -- that certain teams become reliable above a given relic level. Below that they are unreliable. I can't say whether they're "entirely RNG" at those lower relic tiers, but certainly RNG plays a much larger role for those low-relic/no-relic squads.
Anyway, I wanted to thank you for this, @Lumiya because this puts the conversation back on a reasonable footing where we're all working with the same facts: the lower relic squads are dramatically more RNG dependent. I still doubt that the lower level squads are **entirely** RNG dependent, but yes, I can see (and have seen in my own account when the raid first dropped) that certain bonuses that are granted to higher relic teams make them much more reliable, much less RNG dependent, provided certain basic strategies are followed.
Well I definitely didn't say that there is no RNG. In fact, I specifically started out saying that there is RNG to which you have to respond (like which characters get hit, whether they're crits or normal hits, how soon to heal, etc.)
The next thing I have to say might be hard to hear: just because you have a consistent strategy doesn't mean it's the BEST strategy. There may be another strategy that hits 2.7M consistently. If you're using an inconsistent strategy that is still good enough to max out the score sometimes, then it's easily possible to hit max 3 times in a row and then only hit max 2 times out of the next 7 tries. If it's an unreliable strategy, then you're sometimes going to hit max and sometimes not, and which times you hit the max will come in clusters sometimes. Which means other times you'll hit a drought.
I really am sympathetic here. I want you to have the most fun possible. I opposed the idea that everything is RNG in part because I believe that it absolutely kills the fun when the player doesn't have the power to get better. When I went off on the Aphra event requiring dodges -- when there's no such thing as an evasion mod and no evasion in Hondo's mastery and so there was literally nothing a player could do to increase the chance of getting a dodge -- it was because I absolutely hate it when something is entirely RNG.
This raid isn't. There are better strategies and worse ones. I bet if you deliberately tried to sabotage your score you could score a lot lower. The mere fact that that is possible makes it clear that the raid isn't **all** RNG.
I don't need to determine how you respond to the raid. You can choose to get better or choose to ignore the raid -- whatever works for you.
I just want it to be your choice. I want you to see your options.
You see, my strategy is working most of the times. Its not like I have problems with it every second time. I got R8 Jabba soon after raid launch and most of the time I got max from first or second try (if Krrs wont be freed because of several resists). But: during all that time there were exactly 2 times when after all long raw of first time max scores I suddenly started getting a raw of failures. First time there were 5 failed attempts, next - 6. Then everything is "fixed" and team is working grait again. So if strategy is "consistent" for a month, then suddenly became "inconsistent" for a day and then again "consistent" for weeks - that is what I call bad rng.
And its not like omi-Jabba's team has a lot of strategy variations. Jabba is doing basics only, Leia is doing basics only, Krrs is either applying bombs or being eaten, Boba is throwing rockets. If there is more complicated strategy I am all one big ear😃
And, also, if you have a consistent OR max reward strategy I am even bigger ear.
I never get Krrs back, and the one turn he takes is using his second special to apply his debuff to Jabba.
My first move with Jabba is his 2nd special to apply buff immunity, and I have occasionally used his 1st special if I want to cleanse the rest of the team.
I use Leia’s special when the Dragon buries and save Boba’s rocket for when the Dragon has offence up.
Sometimes I still haven’t hit max even after Jabba’s 2nd Rancor summon, and at least twice I’ve actually hit max before the 2nd summon.
What is your Jabbas speed if you have 2 rancors + 2-3 s.abilities uses? 🤔
I have 1 rancor + 2 abilities before either I hit max (good ending) or dragon will kill everyone one way or enother (bad ending).
... Or you don't have oBoushh?
I also never get krrrs back neither and the only thing he does is putting the bombs back and then get eaten. I use Xaereth’s strat with a 4 men team (modding my team to get the same speed as his). I hit max score at 1st try about 90% of time, and usually don’t bother try again if i fail because still get pretty close.
When I bother to mod swap, his speed is 564. When I don’t, it’s only 520. Last 3 raids I’ve hit 2.7M without swapping mods so I’m not likely to bother anymore.
Remember Jabba gains additional ultimate charge when an ally uses a special ability, so sometimes Boushh using her special or Lando summoning more detonators after the dragon goes underground is the difference between getting 2nd Rancor and not getting it.
Omicron is giving +400% offence
I am not really sure that with that you can strach battle long enough to get the secont ultimate...
I have the boushh omicron and I always follow the same sequence which gets me 2.7m reliably.
I never free krss and the dragon almost never gets to burrow.
I also never get to use jabba ult.
My sequence:
boba basic
jabba last special
leia basic
dragon spits (likely BI and blind krss)
krss last special
boba basic
skiff swap to krss
krss first special to taunt (to ensure he gets eaten)
jabba 1st special to cleanse all debuffs
dragon eats krss
leia basic
boba basic
jabba basic
skiff last special
jabba last special
leia basic
boba rocket
Usually the run is done.
If the dragon burrows destroy some bombs to surface him and finish him after. (this has happened to me 1x so far in all raid runs I've done)
https://swgoh.gg/p/658799425/characters/?f=Hutt+Cartel
My hutt cartel in case you want to see the mods I have on them (I dont remod)
Apparently it removed my post when I tried to edit but here it is again just in case.
I have the boushh omi as well.
I never free krss. Dragon almost never gets to burrow. Never get to use jabba ult.
My sequence:
boba basic
jabba last special
leia basic
dragon spits (likely BI and blind krss)
krss last special
boba basic
skiff swap to krss
krss first special to taunt (to ensure he gets eaten)
jabba 1st special to cleanse all debuffs
dragon eats krss
leia basic
boba basic
jabba basic
skiff last special
jabba last special
leia basic
boba rocket
Run is usually done.
If the dragon does somehow burrow shoot some of the bombs to surface him and finish him off after.
My hutt cartel: https://swgoh.gg/p/658799425/characters/?f=Hutt+Cartel