The New Advantage **DEV Explanation Within**

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StormTro0p3R_H
1643 posts Member
edited April 2016
There are quite a few characters that will benefit from being able to consistently crit, but really this new advantage is often a weak form of offense up. Sure, you can use specific leaders to do some % more of crit damage, but with offense up you can still crit hit. With advantage, you're already maxing damage. FO all got hosed because of the perceived value of an auto-crit with their former abilities. FOTP would have been out of control, as would FOO, but Phasma? She didn't need toned down. And I'd guess you can still cause loss of advantage by a double tap? Is armor so hot now that the way advantage used to work was going to be too good? I've got people ready to abuse the free crit hits, but nerfing FO over a weakened form of offense up seems odd right now. Sorry for the rant: I really try not to.
Post edited by StormTro0p3R_H on

Replies

  • Ackturi
    379 posts Member
    I liked seeing 3 basic attack... now it's gone
  • All I can say is if they made an announcement and had to rework the entire FO squad (minus Kylo) then it was probably because FO squad was too powerful with the changes. The devs and test team have played and seen it, we can only speculate on what would have been. Gotta trust them on this one. Actually have to give them props for that because it was identified and caught before the update, not after.
    Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb!
  • There are quite a few characters that will benefit from being able to consistently crit, but really this new advantage is often a weak form of offense up. Sure, you can use specific leaders to do some % more of crit damage, but with offense up you can still crit hit. With advantage, you're already maxing damage. FO all got hosed because of the perceived value of an auto-crit with their former abilities. FOTP would have been out of control, as would FOO, but Phasma? She didn't need toned down. And I'd guess you can still cause loss of advantage by a double tap? Is armor so hot now that the way advantage used to work was going to be too good? I've got people ready to abuse the free crit hits, but nerfing FO over a weakened form of offense up seems odd right now. Sorry for the rant: I really try not to.

    Yes nerf phasma! Lol, your team will be easier to beat now stormtrooper :p .... wait, I just maxed out phasma. ****!
  • How will the advantage affectcAoE? Will it guarantee one critical or all?
  • Waz675
    193 posts Member
    How will the advantage affectcAoE? Will it guarantee one critical or all?

    We don't know ANYTHING besides the little bits of ambiguous information that don't give out too much information. If we all knew exactly who to farm, cg and EA wouldn't make enough from people quickly scrambling to "correct" their farming of the new meta and getting refreshes to get more character shards.
  • How will the advantage affectcAoE? Will it guarantee one critical or all?

    Uh oh lando is ready to bang bang boom :#
  • Boom shakalaka
  • There are quite a few characters that will benefit from being able to consistently crit, but really this new advantage is often a weak form of offense up. Sure, you can use specific leaders to do some % more of crit damage, but with offense up you can still crit hit. With advantage, you're already maxing damage. FO all got hosed because of the perceived value of an auto-crit with their former abilities. FOTP would have been out of control, as would FOO, but Phasma? She didn't need toned down. And I'd guess you can still cause loss of advantage by a double tap? Is armor so hot now that the way advantage used to work was going to be too good? I've got people ready to abuse the free crit hits, but nerfing FO over a weakened form of offense up seems odd right now. Sorry for the rant: I really try not to.

    Yes nerf phasma! Lol, your team will be easier to beat now stormtrooper :p .... wait, I just maxed out phasma. ****!

    If she spreads defense down, then perhaps that ability is noteworthy and she's balanced. HRS and GS are going to love all the crits so I'll be fine, don't worry.
  • All I can say is if they made an announcement and had to rework the entire FO squad (minus Kylo) then it was probably because FO squad was too powerful with the changes. The devs and test team have played and seen it, we can only speculate on what would have been. Gotta trust them on this one. Actually have to give them props for that because it was identified and caught before the update, not after.

    Well put.
  • There are quite a few characters that will benefit from being able to consistently crit, but really this new advantage is often a weak form of offense up. Sure, you can use specific leaders to do some % more of crit damage, but with offense up you can still crit hit. With advantage, you're already maxing damage. FO all got hosed because of the perceived value of an auto-crit with their former abilities. FOTP would have been out of control, as would FOO, but Phasma? She didn't need toned down. And I'd guess you can still cause loss of advantage by a double tap? Is armor so hot now that the way advantage used to work was going to be too good? I've got people ready to abuse the free crit hits, but nerfing FO over a weakened form of offense up seems odd right now. Sorry for the rant: I really try not to.
    FOTP is not getting nerf, it's actually the opposite. Gun down will know be a crit on advantage, that he have most of the time, and gets 15% more damage than before at lvl8. Double tap will get even more nasty with a crit on first tap (6k) plus the other tap. It also gets 15% more damage at lvl 8. Know imagine if it s bug (there s a good chance that it could happen considering the history) and it gets a crit on both tap?!?
    Add to that the fact that he get to gear lvl 11 and get a nice buff to speed (128).
  • rainpro
    76 posts Member
    edited April 2016
    Spartamaj wrote: »
    FOTP is not getting nerf, it's actually the opposite. Gun down will know be a crit on advantage, that he have most of the time, and gets 15% more damage than before at lvl8. Double tap will get even more nasty with a crit on first tap (6k) plus the other tap. It also gets 15% more damage at lvl 8. Know imagine if it s bug (there s a good chance that it could happen considering the history) and it gets a crit on both tap?!? Add to that the fact that he get to gear lvl 11 and get a nice buff to speed (128).

    He already had a high critical chance rating. Gun down has an 80% chance to crit with advantage. Counting an ability upgrade or speed increase that became available after a level increase isn't a buff, it's the natural progression of a character. The fact that advantage will drop more quickly coupled with the fact that he can now only gain advantage from Keen Eye once per enemy will mean his overall sustained damage will go down.
  • rainpro wrote: »
    Spartamaj wrote: »
    FOTP is not getting nerf, it's actually the opposite. Gun down will know be a crit on advantage, that he have most of the time, and gets 15% more damage than before at lvl8. Double tap will get even more nasty with a crit on first tap (6k) plus the other tap. It also gets 15% more damage at lvl 8. Know imagine if it s bug (there s a good chance that it could happen considering the history) and it gets a crit on both tap?!? Add to that the fact that he get to gear lvl 11 and get a nice buff to speed (128).

    He already had a high critical chance rating. Gun down has an 80% chance to crit with advantage. Counting an ability upgrade or speed increase that became available after a level increase isn't a buff. The fact that advantage will drop more quickly coupled with the fact that he can now only gain advantage from Keen Eye once per enemy will mean his overall sustained damage will go down.

    It is a buff because he did not had that 15% damage increase before, it was a crit chance. And he know get at least one crit on double tap, which means is gonna do 10k every single time. Not bad for a nerf.
  • rainpro
    76 posts Member
    edited April 2016
    OK, so exactly like I said his overall sustained damage will go down. His burst damage when he has advantage will go up sure. What is your reasoning that having advantage for less of the time is going to make him hit for more overall? I feel like with less ways to earn advantage and a smaller chance to double tap because of not having advantage as much, he won't do as much damage. There's no one in the conversation that hopes he benefits from all these changes more than me, I just don't see it happening.
  • The main issue I had was that offense up (which no FO characters have built in) will give you 1.5x damage and still give the opportunity for a crit hit, so occasionally 2.25x damage. But advantage offers a guaranteed crit which for most is 1.5x damage with no chance for the lucky 2.25x damage. It just seems odd that they need to rework abilities because they made advantage a weak offense up (exploitable by HRS, GS, Luke, Lando, and others, but weaker overall.)

    It was assured by a dev on Reddit that the abilities are no worse, so we'll see.
  • V1p3rdyn4sty
    2674 posts Member
    edited April 2016
    There are quite a few characters that will benefit from being able to consistently crit, but really this new advantage is often a weak form of offense up. Sure, you can use specific leaders to do some % more of crit damage, but with offense up you can still crit hit. With advantage, you're already maxing damage. FO all got hosed because of the perceived value of an auto-crit with their former abilities. FOTP would have been out of control, as would FOO, but Phasma? She didn't need toned down. And I'd guess you can still cause loss of advantage by a double tap? Is armor so hot now that the way advantage used to work was going to be too good? I've got people ready to abuse the free crit hits, but nerfing FO over a weakened form of offense up seems odd right now. Sorry for the rant: I really try not to.

    Yes nerf phasma! Lol, your team will be easier to beat now stormtrooper :p .... wait, I just maxed out phasma. ****!

    If she spreads defense down, then perhaps that ability is noteworthy and she's balanced. HRS and GS are going to love all the crits so I'll be fine, don't worry.

    That HRS of yours is a pain in the ***! He is a hidden gem. I don't see anyone else running him. He hits like a truck. I'll have to check his data. He always seems to go before I can take him down. And if he can survive until Han taunts, game over.
  • HRS is scary esp with an Ackbar lead when in B-DMG/turn you are #3. #1 is FOTP accounting for Double-Tap, #2 by a whisker is Rey.
    FOTPs 1-time per enemy Keen Eye might be a nasty loss as he was pretty much Advantage all the time but we'll see how it pans out & how it combines with Protection (I guess FO did start shielding their TIEs.. )
  • rainpro wrote: »
    OK, so exactly like I said his overall sustained damage will go down. His burst damage when he has advantage will go up sure. What is your reasoning that having advantage for less of the time is going to make him hit for more overall? I feel like with less ways to earn advantage and a smaller chance to double tap because of not having advantage as much, he won't do as much damage. There's no one in the conversation that hopes he benefits from all these changes more than me, I just don't see it happening.

    You may be right .I'm a bit confused about the new keen eyes when it says "Keen Eye now only triggers once per enemy" is it only first part of it with crits chance and damage (so relevant for double tap only) or it means that you have advantage for only 1 turn. If it is the second, I agree, it is a nerf.
  • All I can say is if they made an announcement and had to rework the entire FO squad (minus Kylo) then it was probably because FO squad was too powerful with the changes. The devs and test team have played and seen it, we can only speculate on what would have been. Gotta trust them on this one. Actually have to give them props for that because it was identified and caught before the update, not after.

    Aren't we the test team? Anyways let wait till friday (europe) and test :wink:
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    Nightlores wrote: »
    All I can say is if they made an announcement and had to rework the entire FO squad (minus Kylo) then it was probably because FO squad was too powerful with the changes. The devs and test team have played and seen it, we can only speculate on what would have been. Gotta trust them on this one. Actually have to give them props for that because it was identified and caught before the update, not after.

    Aren't we the test team? Anyways let wait till friday (europe) and test :wink:

    lol. Exactly.

    "Alright Beta-testers! SWGOH Beta .801 is dropping Thursday, let us know what you think and what bugs you find! Have fun!"
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  • Apoc
    172 posts Member
    This patch will definitely be an exciting one. I've already working out my new team. Going down the Phasma, Kylo, FOO, and Lando route. AoE crits all day every day.
  • Some quick notes on the new Advantage and associated reworks:
    • Advantage was indeed changed partially because it was just overwhelmingly effective once defense was a big factor in survivability--it felt silly putting all this effort into re-tuning the game to be less explosive if a high-burst character with old Advantage could crit and still 80~100% kill someone in one shot. The new Advantage was decided on because it had a big upside--while it's now harder to stack with other damage increases, it can act as an enabler for lots of on-crit mechanics. You can see this firsthand in several of the First Order character ability reworks, as they can now trigger many of their effects on a regular crit, independent of Advantage.
    • Advantage will cause AoE attacks to automatically crit every target hit.
    • Advantage will cause multi-hit moves (e.g. Rey's Flurry of Blows, Magmatrooper's Line of Fire) to crit each hit.
    • Advantage will not help extra attacks, as they are, well, separate attacks. (e.g. Dooku's Hindering Press)
    • Advantage is applied to the next damaging attack only. This means if you, say, use a healing/buffing ability that doesn't deal damage, it won't consume Advantage. It also won't be consumed if you're Stunned and lose your turn. This is why Advantage still specifies a duration--conceivably, if you stun-locked somebody long enough, Advantage would expire.
    • By the same token, Advantage will still be consumed if the target Evaded your attack--it only 'cares' whether you did a damaging attack, not whether that attack succeeded.
    • The only exceptions to 'next-attack-only' are Assists granted by Phasma's Fire at Will, which will refresh the Assisting ally's Advantage if they had it as soon as they finish the attack. This was a quality-of-life improvement to compensate for the fact that you don't get to decide who gets called for an Assist, which could cause you to expend Advantage undesirably, and that felt weird for the First Order leader.
    • The "once per enemy" thing on First Order TIE Pilot's Keen Eye means that you can't gain Advantage from a single enemy falling below 50%, healing above 50%, and falling below it again; in general, this means that in PvP and Galactic War, Keen Eye will "only" grant Advantage 5 times per battle. "Only".
    • First Order TIE Pilot's triple attack bug is actually definitely finally fixed as part of the reworks. (Probably.)
  • Thank you for your response!
  • CG_Method wrote: »
    Some quick notes on the new Advantage and associated reworks:
    • Advantage was indeed changed partially because it was just overwhelmingly effective once defense was a big factor in survivability--it felt silly putting all this effort into re-tuning the game to be less explosive if a high-burst character with old Advantage could crit and still 80~100% kill someone in one shot. The new Advantage was decided on because it had a big upside--while it's now harder to stack with other damage increases, it can act as an enabler for lots of on-crit mechanics. You can see this firsthand in several of the First Order character ability reworks, as they can now trigger many of their effects on a regular crit, independent of Advantage.
    • Advantage will cause AoE attacks to automatically crit every target hit.
    • Advantage will cause multi-hit moves (e.g. Rey's Flurry of Blows, Magmatrooper's Line of Fire) to crit each hit.
    • Advantage will not help extra attacks, as they are, well, separate attacks. (e.g. Dooku's Hindering Press)
    • Advantage is applied to the next damaging attack only. This means if you, say, use a healing/buffing ability that doesn't deal damage, it won't consume Advantage. It also won't be consumed if you're Stunned and lose your turn. This is why Advantage still specifies a duration--conceivably, if you stun-locked somebody long enough, Advantage would expire.
    • By the same token, Advantage will still be consumed if the target Evaded your attack--it only 'cares' whether you did a damaging attack, not whether that attack succeeded.
    • The only exceptions to 'next-attack-only' are Assists granted by Phasma's Fire at Will, which will refresh the Assisting ally's Advantage if they had it as soon as they finish the attack. This was a quality-of-life improvement to compensate for the fact that you don't get to decide who gets called for an Assist, which could cause you to expend Advantage undesirably, and that felt weird for the First Order leader.
    • The "once per enemy" thing on First Order TIE Pilot's Keen Eye means that you can't gain Advantage from a single enemy falling below 50%, healing above 50%, and falling below it again; in general, this means that in PvP and Galactic War, Keen Eye will "only" grant Advantage 5 times per battle. "Only".
    • First Order TIE Pilot's triple attack bug is actually definitely finally fixed as part of the reworks. (Probably.)

    If I'm reading this correctly this means all he FO talk about being the new meta is true? Wasn't this suppose to make more characters useable? This doesn't sound like anything is going to change.
  • Thanks for the explanation. I never cared much for the old advantage. I think the new advantage is way better and we will probably see Phasma in everyone's team again.
  • puru
    161 posts Member
    Thanks, thats some great insight. One question, does the "exception" apply to all assist attacks (IG-86 special, GS special) since you don't get to choose the assisting ally.
  • Great notes. Thank you
  • How will the advantage affectcAoE? Will it guarantee one critical or all?

    Of course the guy with a Lando profile pic wants to know this!
  • Chars who have really high critical damage also increase. Savage Oppress, Yoda, Ventress, and of course Greedo will be incredible with Phasma.
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    @CG_Method - Thanks, that is the sort of detailed info we all crave.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • Phipps
    1107 posts Member
    Awesome detail
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