[MEGA THREAD] Battle for Naboo

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  • Devian
    686 posts Member
    edited July 9
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    Someone probably noticed, but
    8x2,7=21,6 mil (max) // prev.raid
    5x3,6=18 mil (max) // curr.raid
    plus, having less attempts you require higher investment in a team
    (previously you required 15-22 R9 characters, now its 25), in addition half of the characters are useless outside of raid. So its basically like wasting resources you'll never get back.
    plus its x2 time consuming.
    devs need to adjust rewards and make some characters useful outside of raid. otherwise its a waste
  • MaxBane
    34 posts Member
    edited July 9
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    I like this raid, it is way better than Endor. That said, it has a number of flaws, many of which could be easily fixed, IF CG wants.

    The problems I see, which have been already addressed by many, essentally are:

    - Limited roster: 30 toons might seem enough on paper but, when you look closely, of those 30 one is KAM, one is the last high-end conquest character, two are the latest toons released one of which is not even farmable yet, and three crap jedi no one has ever cared about until now (namely Kit Fisto, Eeth Koth, Jedi Guardian). And, of course, there are 5 Gungans which are the latest big fish, something I can live with it but doesn't mean everyone does.

    - Limited viable teams: There are 15 Jedi, 11 of which are leaders but if you do not use Luminara or Jedi Consular (which is not even a leader) you can only barely past wave 1 of Tier 0 with a full R5 team.

    - Insanely low tier difficulty: I tried multiple attemps on different tiers with my Luminara team and, RNG wise, there is almost no difference from Tier 0 to Tier 2.

    - And then there are the bugs: to save money and time in playtesting, CG thought that the best thing is to release new stuff directly in production without any quality control and let the player base do the play testing.

    Put everything together and the result that emerges is that most players have severely limited options to gain some decent score. This hurts the F2P, the casual shopper (who has already been scammed by the last LSB) and, indirectly, the big whales who can't get the top crates by themselves (unless, of course, they are in a top tier guild filled with whales).



    Post edited by MaxBane on
  • Gawejn
    1159 posts Member
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    I like this raid, 2 teams can make 5,4m which is good enough for good crate. And i dont need gungans, queen or kam to make it. No need to play 5 times, only 2.
  • Hortus
    658 posts Member
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    Just a few notes.
    1. People are trying to compare this raid with Endor but comparison with Krayt is more correct. Endor, after all, used completely unique mechanics.
    2. Comparing with Krayt, difficulty seems more or less the same. My guild (400M) shows very similar overall performance level.
    3. There is one obvious issue - in this raid it's almost impossible to score with weak/suboptimal teams, idk if it's planned or not. Krayt registered pure damage done, Endor converted toons in a way which gave similar capabilities to very different toons, so both raids allowed to score with non-ideal teams. But Naboo don't allow it - either you must follow pretty strict choices or you can't do anything good. It may be not an issue for upper mid-level or high-end guilds but may hit weaker really hard. So yes, I completely understand people who say that lower tiers are overtuned.
  • Devian
    686 posts Member
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    MaxBane wrote: »
    and three crap jedi no one has ever cared about until now (namely Kit Fisto, Eeth Koth, Jedi Guardian).
    Jedi Consular, Plo Koon, Aayla Secura, Luminara Unduli, Darth Maul, .
    Plus, currently mediocre/situational Shaak Ti, Darth Sidious
  • MaxBane
    34 posts Member
    edited July 9
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    Devian wrote: »
    MaxBane wrote: »
    and three crap jedi no one has ever cared about until now (namely Kit Fisto, Eeth Koth, Jedi Guardian).
    Jedi Consular, Plo Koon, Aayla Secura, Luminara Unduli, Darth Maul, .
    Plus, currently mediocre/situational Shaak Ti, Darth Sidious

    I agree that those you mentioned are not that great but, at the same time, they are not total crap as they have their niche use: some have an half-decent ship, others are required for journeys and/or can have a role in GAC. On the contrary, Kit Fisto, Eeth Koth and Jedi Guardian are pure trash.

  • Ragnarok_COTF
    1870 posts Member
    edited July 9
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    Devian wrote: »
    MaxBane wrote: »
    and three crap jedi no one has ever cared about until now (namely Kit Fisto, Eeth Koth, Jedi Guardian).
    Jedi Consular, Plo Koon, Aayla Secura, Luminara Unduli, Darth Maul, .
    Plus, currently mediocre/situational Shaak Ti, Darth Sidious

    Beq lead works just fine for 2nd Jedi team. Jedi Consular is completely optional; ignore him.

    High relic PK is a pretty critical part of Neg vs Exec. If you didn't already have him r7+, your GAC fleets will thank you for bumping him up for the raid.

    Darth Maul, Darth Sidious, Shaak Ti, and Aayla are GL reqs (iirc), so they are hardly a sunk gear cost if you didn't have them relic'd already.

    That leaves Lumi--the only character in your list I had to put actual gear on (was G8 for me, I think). Yeah, she's awful.

    But gearing up one terrible Jedi isn't a huge ask, imo. I think people may have forgotten the level of investment we made in HSTR teams that were obsolete not long after--e.g. Visas Marr, Chex Mix, machine gun Leia, Talia, etc. But some of those came back around later.

    Needing to boost relics on teams should also not be a big surprise. I had to boost relics on several ITs and "useless" rebels for Endor. Similarly with Tuskens and certain Jedi and Mandos for Krayt. Again, some of these wound up paying dividends, despite feeling sunk at the time.

    I get the low-tier balance complaints. I get that the team comp choices are extremely narrowly chosen by CG. I don't get the complaints about which characters are required, though.
  • Options
    I still don’t understand the rationale behind removing rewards from older content and then adding the same rewards to new content with higher requirements? That goes against any reason and sense of fairness. Even CG has previously said this is bad practice. Why even do it like this? CG already controls the balancing tools of in game economy, they would still be able to push the player base to new content by adding bigger rewards to new content. Which would be offset by the higher requirements of investment to perform at those higher levels.
  • Options
    I'd rather they move Mk3 currency than have pushed the ceiling to R11 (or whatever) by now.
  • MaxBane
    34 posts Member
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    I get the low-tier balance complaints. I get that the team comp choices are extremely narrowly chosen by CG. I don't get the complaints about which characters are required, though.

    That's because you are looking at it as if it was total independent from the other two: it is not.

    I would be totally fine with the current characters requirement IF each of them could contribute in its own measure to the final score, but they don't: you can see it by yourself by building a team with those jedi leftovers, take them to Relic 5+ and watch them being obliterated in the first wave of tier 0. I'm sure you'll agree that this is the first time you've had to invest in worthless toons for a raid and have absolutely no return.
  • Options
    MaxBane wrote: »
    I get the low-tier balance complaints. I get that the team comp choices are extremely narrowly chosen by CG. I don't get the complaints about which characters are required, though.

    That's because you are looking at it as if it was total independent from the other two: it is not.

    I would be totally fine with the current characters requirement IF each of them could contribute in its own measure to the final score, but they don't: you can see it by yourself by building a team with those jedi leftovers, take them to Relic 5+ and watch them being obliterated in the first wave of tier 0. I'm sure you'll agree that this is the first time you've had to invest in worthless toons for a raid and have absolutely no return.

    This is the first time that there is no return at r5, yes. And I would say that G11/12 in the early HSTR days is about the same investment demand as r5 is now. Which is why I understand/sympathize with the criticisms about the lower tier balancing.
  • herd_nerfer
    2167 posts Member
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    Rewards suck for this crap. Endor bike raid my guild was getting 3rd crate and doing around 50-60 mil. First run on this raid we just barely made it to the first crate 10m. Stupid.

    I've been telling everyone that you can't expect to do well your first time out, and JarJar hasn't come back.

    I recommend waiting a month (which is now more like 25 days, maybe?) before judging the rewards.

    If you can't get the same rewards after a month, then yes. There's a problem at that point. But we know that CG was deliberately sabotaging raid scores for non-whales by not bringing JarJar back and not making MQG and POW farmable before the start of the raid.

    If it balances after 6-7 weeks, I would say that there's a problem, but a relatively minor one where CG is hurting people on purpose for not being whales, and more than they need to do to incentivize the new squads, but only by 2-3 extra raids. That would be excessive, IMO. I wouldn't like it. But I wouldn't be moved to rant or anything. (A single reasonably-worded critique would be enough.)

    If after two months of bringing new toons up and learning the new raid's mechanics and strategies you still aren't hitting the same rewards, then there's a major problem, and people will be fully justified in ranting.

    Just so you know - not having Jarjar is not hurting raid scores. This is from my run in the last raid and it was by far the easiest team I ran.

    gszcrp8yzl7t.png

    There are also lots of screenshots of Darth Maul with Nute and Sid hitting max scores. So that's 7 characters across two teams. In a couple of months the QA/POW/MQG team will be accessible to everyone more easily and that's another trio that can hit max scores - so 10 characters total for 3 teams. Taking them all to R8 would give you 8.1m points. If your whole guild did that it puts you just 11m points shy of the second to last reward box - which should be easy to recoup with moderately geared Lumi and/or Beq teams. Taking them all to R7 would land you squarely on the reward box right before that.

    Now, MY guild won't be doing that - because we're pretty casual - there's a group of us that probably will be try-hardy about it but our people just aren't that committed - but for slightly more serious guilds, that's a pretty easy bar to hit.

    I don't love losing the MK3 currency that we were getting in Endor - but I can live with it for a little while. My bigger concern is the time commitment - the jury is still out on what that's going to look like - it'll take a few weeks to really establish my strategies and optimal modding. Until then it's going to take more time than I want it to - if it turns out I can reliably get max scores on the first run with each team, I'll be pretty happy with it. That being said, coming from a casual guild, lots of my guild mates just won't be bothered to try very hard, and if it ends up taking more time than they're willing to give, I'm not optimistic about our prospects in this raid.
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
  • Gawejn
    1159 posts Member
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    I just played for the first time raid.
    My first impresion is : it is quite easy raid.
    My lumi team got max score, my maul sidious team got max score.
    Yes you need good mods and have a small understanding about how to play, yes you need zetas, yes you need some relics but it is quite nice design.
    Much better than endor raid. No motion sickness.
  • Options
    Absolute trash raid the way it is now. Difficulty is way overtuned on lower levels, and out of four attempts I did I crashed twice a few minutes into the run. I hope whoever designed this gets no more than “meets expectations” on their mid-year review.
  • Options
    Initial impressions of this raid are bad. I'm honestly kinda surprised too since I was really happy to leave Endor behind, well CG in less than a week you made me miss my most hated raid. This raid sucks.
  • stewman1991
    179 posts Member
    edited July 10
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    10.7m go and I cant even do a mill damage this raid sucks and even if I farmed for gungans by the time I got jarjar this raid will be over. If I push these secondary characters I lose out on crucial teams I need for GA so I wont be pushing my teams any further lol
    Post edited by crzydroid on
  • Whatelse73
    2249 posts Member
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    RevJJ82 wrote: »
    Absolute trash raid the way it is now. Difficulty is way overtuned on lower levels, and out of four attempts I did I crashed twice a few minutes into the run. I hope whoever designed this gets no more than “meets expectations” on their mid-year review.

    They don't do quality assurance on the game, what makes you think they do so on their employees? If people are spending money on the game, that's all that matters.

    This raid is to get people to spend resources on useless characters, same as Krayt, same as Endor, and so on. And then in 6-9 months, we'll get a new raid with more useless characters to build for that raid. (Similar to datacrons, where garbage characters are given L9s so players will relic up those characters for a garbage rental period.)
  • RevJJ82
    74 posts Member
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    Whatelse73 wrote: »
    RevJJ82 wrote: »
    Absolute trash raid the way it is now. Difficulty is way overtuned on lower levels, and out of four attempts I did I crashed twice a few minutes into the run. I hope whoever designed this gets no more than “meets expectations” on their mid-year review.

    They don't do quality assurance on the game, what makes you think they do so on their employees? If people are spending money on the game, that's all that matters.

    Hence “meets expectations”. I also think the expectations most of us have of this company match what we’re seeing in this raid.
  • Options
    7 attempts so far on our second raid run and I can’t match my last raid max score with Luminara Jedi on R5 tier equipped with my best mods. TRASH, WAY too many RNG variables and runs take too long to be doing the same thing over and over ad nauseam hoping for things to line up. Please throw this raid all the way in the dumpster!!! 🚮🚮🚮

    At least Endor was fast and reliable.
  • Options
    I feel like a lot of people are confusing "this is a bad raid" with "I can't get a good score in this raid".

    In what new raid ever did people go into it the first couple of times scoring their best?

    So far, the raid is beautiful. It has an epic feel. The mechanics are distinct but not the hard departure from normal game play that endor was (though this wasn't really a negative in my book). Team comps are interesting. Strategies are challenging but not overly so.

    I'm a little annoyed that we have to deal with a dip in rewards for a while - and I honestly don't know if my guild will return to the same level that we were getting in the Endor raid - but so far, from what I've seen the raid is interesting and well done (bugs not withstanding). I have no doubt that it will get stale once I have my teams sorted and it becomes more of a chore than an interesting departure. But for now I'm pretty happy with the raid itself.

    With regards to rewards - I feel like they should move ALL of the MK3 to the personal reward track - that way people can benefit from heavy investment in raid characters, even in casual guilds. It might also get more people to try harder if they knew they didn't have to rely on everyone else trying equally hard.
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
  • LordOfVoids
    55 posts Member
    edited July 10
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    No this is a bad raid. The scaling is to high for the relic levels required, the healing is insane, and the rng is just a little to much.
    The toons requirements also suck.
  • ItsNotMe
    104 posts Member
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    I feel like a lot of people are confusing "this is a bad raid" with "I can't get a good score in this raid".

    In what new raid ever did people go into it the first couple of times scoring their best?

    So far, the raid is beautiful. It has an epic feel. The mechanics are distinct but not the hard departure from normal game play that endor was (though this wasn't really a negative in my book). Team comps are interesting. Strategies are challenging but not overly so.

    I'm a little annoyed that we have to deal with a dip in rewards for a while - and I honestly don't know if my guild will return to the same level that we were getting in the Endor raid - but so far, from what I've seen the raid is interesting and well done (bugs not withstanding). I have no doubt that it will get stale once I have my teams sorted and it becomes more of a chore than an interesting departure. But for now I'm pretty happy with the raid itself.

    With regards to rewards - I feel like they should move ALL of the MK3 to the personal reward track - that way people can benefit from heavy investment in raid characters, even in casual guilds. It might also get more people to try harder if they knew they didn't have to rely on everyone else trying equally hard.

    If you’re talking (in part) to me: did you miss the part where I said I already got a max score? My gripe is in the unreasonably amount of time and RNG factors it potentially takes to reproduce that score, after I already invested a tremendous amount of time trying to max my mods for a particular team. And presumably, we’ll have to spend as much time trying to reproduce max scores with certain teams, EVERY raid run for the next several months. That’s incredibly frustrating and not fun gameplay at all.

    You know would fix that? The ability to sim our last saved result!
  • Options
    ItsNotMe wrote: »
    I feel like a lot of people are confusing "this is a bad raid" with "I can't get a good score in this raid".

    In what new raid ever did people go into it the first couple of times scoring their best?

    So far, the raid is beautiful. It has an epic feel. The mechanics are distinct but not the hard departure from normal game play that endor was (though this wasn't really a negative in my book). Team comps are interesting. Strategies are challenging but not overly so.

    I'm a little annoyed that we have to deal with a dip in rewards for a while - and I honestly don't know if my guild will return to the same level that we were getting in the Endor raid - but so far, from what I've seen the raid is interesting and well done (bugs not withstanding). I have no doubt that it will get stale once I have my teams sorted and it becomes more of a chore than an interesting departure. But for now I'm pretty happy with the raid itself.

    With regards to rewards - I feel like they should move ALL of the MK3 to the personal reward track - that way people can benefit from heavy investment in raid characters, even in casual guilds. It might also get more people to try harder if they knew they didn't have to rely on everyone else trying equally hard.

    If you’re talking (in part) to me: did you miss the part where I said I already got a max score? My gripe is in the unreasonably amount of time and RNG factors it potentially takes to reproduce that score, after I already invested a tremendous amount of time trying to max my mods for a particular team. And presumably, we’ll have to spend as much time trying to reproduce max scores with certain teams, EVERY raid run for the next several months. That’s incredibly frustrating and not fun gameplay at all.

    You know would fix that? The ability to sim our last saved result!

    I would be totally on board with that.

    I agree that screen time is an issue.

    With regard to the design of the raid in general though - I stand by what I said.
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
  • nottenst
    734 posts Member
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    We had our first attempt at the Naboo Raid a few days ago. Our guild achieved the same crate we had done for Endor and Krayt, so no loss there. I can actually actively participate in this raid (as opposed to be required to set up hit auto and turn the screen away for Endor), so that's a plus for me. My personal rewards are down at the moment, but eventually they should improve.

    As far as I am concerned this raid is better than Endor, but probably just as good as the Krayt raid.
  • Gawejn
    1159 posts Member
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    ItsNotMe wrote: »
    7 attempts so far on our second raid run and I can’t match my last raid max score with Luminara Jedi on R5 tier equipped with my best mods. TRASH, WAY too many RNG variables and runs take too long to be doing the same thing over and over ad nauseam hoping for things to line up. Please throw this raid all the way in the dumpster!!! 🚮🚮🚮

    At least Endor was fast and reliable.

    If you dont use somewhere else Aayla Secura put her in team with Lumi. Itbis easy max score always
  • TargetEadu
    1715 posts Member
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    Gawejn wrote: »
    ItsNotMe wrote: »
    7 attempts so far on our second raid run and I can’t match my last raid max score with Luminara Jedi on R5 tier equipped with my best mods. TRASH, WAY too many RNG variables and runs take too long to be doing the same thing over and over ad nauseam hoping for things to line up. Please throw this raid all the way in the dumpster!!! 🚮🚮🚮

    At least Endor was fast and reliable.

    If you dont use somewhere else Aayla Secura put her in team with Lumi. Itbis easy max score always

    I second Aayla. Mace and GMY are also good if you’re struggling with just Lumi+Kit - Mace can swap turns to keep Kit taking turns or general utility, and GMY can spread Potency Up to refresh the duration.
  • Options
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    ItsNotMe wrote: »
    7 attempts so far on our second raid run and I can’t match my last raid max score with Luminara Jedi on R5 tier equipped with my best mods. TRASH, WAY too many RNG variables and runs take too long to be doing the same thing over and over ad nauseam hoping for things to line up. Please throw this raid all the way in the dumpster!!! 🚮🚮🚮

    At least Endor was fast and reliable.

    If you dont use somewhere else Aayla Secura put her in team with Lumi. Itbis easy max score always

    I second Aayla. Mace and GMY are also good if you’re struggling with just Lumi+Kit - Mace can swap turns to keep Kit taking turns or general utility, and GMY can spread Potency Up to refresh the duration.

    Just be careful of buff dispell from lead droid.
  • TargetEadu
    1715 posts Member
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    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    ItsNotMe wrote: »
    7 attempts so far on our second raid run and I can’t match my last raid max score with Luminara Jedi on R5 tier equipped with my best mods. TRASH, WAY too many RNG variables and runs take too long to be doing the same thing over and over ad nauseam hoping for things to line up. Please throw this raid all the way in the dumpster!!! 🚮🚮🚮

    At least Endor was fast and reliable.

    If you dont use somewhere else Aayla Secura put her in team with Lumi. Itbis easy max score always

    I second Aayla. Mace and GMY are also good if you’re struggling with just Lumi+Kit - Mace can swap turns to keep Kit taking turns or general utility, and GMY can spread Potency Up to refresh the duration.

    Just be careful of buff dispell from lead droid.

    Right, but that’s going to be a problem no matter what Lumi team you use.
  • ItsNotMe
    104 posts Member
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    Gawejn wrote: »
    ItsNotMe wrote: »
    7 attempts so far on our second raid run and I can’t match my last raid max score with Luminara Jedi on R5 tier equipped with my best mods. TRASH, WAY too many RNG variables and runs take too long to be doing the same thing over and over ad nauseam hoping for things to line up. Please throw this raid all the way in the dumpster!!! 🚮🚮🚮

    At least Endor was fast and reliable.

    If you dont use somewhere else Aayla Secura put her in team with Lumi. Itbis easy max score always

    Thank you for this suggestion! I don’t have Aayla geared up at all unfortunately, however to the other suggestion I do have Mace at g12+4 including injector. He was going to be my next relic but now I need to see if I can do that AND get my Gungans ready for the next JJB event in time. Doing the 2x on hard nodes and have them all ~6*+ so I really want to try to catch JJB this time around to max the raid benefits of having him…
  • ItsNotMe
    104 posts Member
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    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    ItsNotMe wrote: »
    7 attempts so far on our second raid run and I can’t match my last raid max score with Luminara Jedi on R5 tier equipped with my best mods. TRASH, WAY too many RNG variables and runs take too long to be doing the same thing over and over ad nauseam hoping for things to line up. Please throw this raid all the way in the dumpster!!! 🚮🚮🚮

    At least Endor was fast and reliable.

    If you dont use somewhere else Aayla Secura put her in team with Lumi. Itbis easy max score always

    I second Aayla. Mace and GMY are also good if you’re struggling with just Lumi+Kit - Mace can swap turns to keep Kit taking turns or general utility, and GMY can spread Potency Up to refresh the duration.

    See my last post, my current squad consists of; Lumi, Kit, Plo, Shaak, GMY. Mace otw but may have to derail to finish Gungans in time for JJB.. sadly, no Aayla or KAM (unless they drop a surprise LSB on us, but I directly asked Meathead in a raid livestream if KAM LSB was coming soon, and he said “not soon enough” 😒😭).
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