Please tune down the Tier 0 (and potentially Tier 1) Naboo Raid

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  • LordDirt
    5233 posts Member
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    It was 500 people out of how many who play this game?
    We needed Cobb Vanth shards for Krayt Dragon raid, Endor Gear Luke shards for Speeder Bike raid and Anakin Skywalker shards for Battle for Naboo raid?
  • Digitizoid
    37 posts Member
    edited July 7
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    LordDirt wrote: »
    It was 500 people out of how many who play this game?

    I dunno, you tell me if you have better data. Acting like a subset of random users giving data isn't valid is ignorant.
  • TVF
    36858 posts Member
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    Digitizoid wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    It was 500 people out of how many who play this game?

    I dunno, you tell me if you have better data.

    You're the one asserting something with bad data.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Options
    TVF wrote: »
    Digitizoid wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    It was 500 people out of how many who play this game?

    I dunno, you tell me if you have better data.

    You're the one asserting something with bad data.

    How is the data bad or invalid? Explain that please...oh and "Reddit LULULUL" isn't a valid explanation or excuse. It's a cop out.

  • Options
    Digitizoid wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Digitizoid wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    It was 500 people out of how many who play this game?

    I dunno, you tell me if you have better data.

    You're the one asserting something with bad data.

    How is the data bad or invalid? Explain that please...oh and "Reddit LULULUL" isn't a valid explanation or excuse. It's a cop out.

    That you think Reddit is a good source makes this a pointless discussion.

    P.S. Polls on the forum are also useless
  • Options
    Again explain why it's a bad source. You can't make some blanket statement without giving reasoning. Literally I stated above you need to give reasons or your entire statement is completely null and void. I gave you reasonings why I think a Poll of Random users of SWGOH on Reddit was a valid data set. You haven't even provided the bare minimum.

    Also you stating "Polls on the forum are also useless" just tells me you don't believe polls in general to provide any sort of valuable insight or relevant data. If so that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. You probably could have led with that instead of "TROLOLOL REDDIT TROLOLOL"....sounded like an ignorant buffoon.
  • LordDirt
    5233 posts Member
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    500 reddit responses do not reflect the player base very well.
    We needed Cobb Vanth shards for Krayt Dragon raid, Endor Gear Luke shards for Speeder Bike raid and Anakin Skywalker shards for Battle for Naboo raid?
  • Options
    LordDirt wrote: »
    500 reddit responses do not reflect the player base very well.

    Valid reasoning, last I read "Active player" count is around 400,000...now granted the amount of secondary, tertiary alt accounts would skew this number significantly. You could probably estimate on the low end 20,000 accounts would be Alt accounts. So 380k is a rough estimate of Active players.

    Now as for my counter argument. Statisticians typically state a MINIMUM sample size to get any meaningful results from Surveys or polls needs to be 100 or more.

    With a Maximum sample size of 10% of the total population or more. Thus a sample size of 500 can still generate meaningful data based on users who partook in the poll.
  • DeusArt
    148 posts Member
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    I'm surprised how those who are playing at tiers 5+ are trying say that there is no need to lower tier 0 difficulty with statment of "bad data", "not a good source", "do not reflect the player base" etc.
  • Options
    DeusArt wrote: »
    I'm surprised how those who are playing at tiers 5+ are trying say that there is no need to lower tier 0 difficulty with statment of "bad data", "not a good source", "do not reflect the player base" etc.

    Yea I'm not too sure what their dog in this argument is. Lowering the difficulty of Tier 0 and Tier 1 wouldn't effect these people at all. Kind of strange they care about making it more difficult for lower GP players.
  • scuba
    14239 posts Member
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    Digitizoid wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    500 reddit responses do not reflect the player base very well.

    Valid reasoning, last I read "Active player" count is around 400,000...now granted the amount of secondary, tertiary alt accounts would skew this number significantly. You could probably estimate on the low end 20,000 accounts would be Alt accounts. So 380k is a rough estimate of Active players.

    Now as for my counter argument. Statisticians typically state a MINIMUM sample size to get any meaningful results from Surveys or polls needs to be 100 or more.

    With a Maximum sample size of 10% of the total population or more. Thus a sample size of 500 can still generate meaningful data based on users who partook in the poll.

    Your data set is too small, but let's say it is not, you method is wrong.
    You said 60% of guilds are locked out of rewards
    The poll was to player not guilds
    334 players out of 500 getting less or no rewards is not the same as 60% of guilds locked out of rewards?
    Was all 500 players from different guilds?
    Less rewards is still rewards so not locked out. So how many of those 334 players still got mk3? If they got mk3 they where not locked out.
    Why reddit and even forum polls are unreliable... The loudest voices tend to be those not happy with it.

    I could really care less if they tune the raid one way or the other CG is gonna CG.
    I can say this, if I was anyone making decisions that poll on reddit mean nothing because CG will have the hard data of who attempted and what rewards they got, swgoh.gg may or may not have that info.
    Not every guild should be doing the latest raid/tb and based on how they are designed it looks intentional.
  • Auzor
    13 posts Member
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    @Meathead
    Please convince whomever at CG to address the lower tier Naboo difficulty.
    If not lowering the tier 0 (tier 1) difficulty, add a tier 0.5 difficulty, with faster playtime, giving a max score of 150k.
    The mobs in that difficulty would have lower speed, health, healing, and damage output. (i.e. players would not be expected to beat healing, mass-assisting relic'd enemies with gear 9-11 5-starred characters)

    The new raid still sucks in terms of the amount of time it takes, but at least newer players would be able to get a score above 0, 3, 6, 9k, thus contribute, and less guilds would break up.

    I went from 2.197 million personnal score, to 9k, after pre-farming raid characters to 7 stars, gearing them up, giving them mods etc.
    The final confirmation list of characters came very late, and is frankly, trash.
    Guild went from 5th crate on Endor, to barely scraping the 1st box on Naboo.
    Several players in my 210+ million GP guild, ended with a 0 point score in Naboo.
    This is a disgrace.
  • TargetEadu
    1715 posts Member
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    @Digitizoid , another major downside of Reddit Polls as information sources is (from my understanding of reddit) that they’re very easy to rig via the use of alternate accounts. Very little guaruntee that each response is an independent person, let alone an independent person actually experiencing what they’re saying they are.

    Also, Raid MK 3 is an endgame currency. If people are still trying to unlock CLS and similar early legends, they are not endgame.
  • DeusArt
    148 posts Member
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    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Also, Raid MK 3 is an endgame currency. If people are still trying to unlock CLS and similar early legends, they are not endgame.
    That is non-sense. Idea of new raid is bring them to everyone. That's why this new raids having difficulty tiers and anyone should be able to play it on level 0 difficulty scoring low result. In Krayt and Endor you could drop trash troops and get your 40-100k score.
    Now there is gungans with omicron is only team that get score at g8-9. You literally score 0 with any other purple team.
  • DeusArt
    148 posts Member
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    Just past it here vkwiwjuvjs9p.png
  • cmi
    11 posts Member
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    But elists want to say „get good“ to feel better about their achievements in a video game.

    Who cares about facts like „why is there even a tier 0 in this raid which you can only do with Gungans“ on lower gear levels or want rewards for everybody when you instead can be a elitist and a ****.
  • xpgammer
    153 posts Member
    edited July 8
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    New raids are there for High GP guilds/players to get good rewards
    Old raids are there for Low GP guilds/players to get ok rewards

    This is a free mobile game people
    free mobile games care less about having fair gaming than rewarding people who spend time and/or money. (Not that they don't include fair gaming changes like new player rework and making older character's easier to get.)

    Not that I wouldn't like filling my pockets with mk3 raid tokens as a 2.3mil gp in a 190mil gp guild. But that's just the way it is.
    Sometimes a door is just a door
  • cmi
    11 posts Member
    edited July 8
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    And what is the reasoning for the existence of tier0? You really want to tell me/us, the requirements (purple units) are fine, the enemies (g13 with assist and heal) are fine, we just need to gear up to relic levels to have a chance to even getting some points?

    The old raid was perfect: lower guilds would get ok rewards (including SOME mk3, not „filling my pockets“), higher guilds would get good rewards.

    That this game is aimed for whales like any „free to play“ game - we get it. This is why there have Gungan galactic challenges for weeks now and stupidly strong Gungans only beatable by high end players with the right roster. This is fine.

    But cutting off lower end guilds from ANY rewards on the new raid while IMPLYING it can be done (requirements, posts) is just horrible - same goes for all the elitists here, not even playing tier0 but defending this (purple 5* units required, enemies are g13) as „normal“ and „intended“.

    Let’s hope CG has a look at the data and decides this is over the top as well. (One can dream, I mean it’s not a bug giving some minor advantage to the players and gets fixed super fast, not like the immortal GG which was just removed from the rotation „until this is fixed“ which apparently takes some months and has no priority at all for CG.)
  • Rius
    408 posts Member
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    xpgammer wrote: »
    New raids are there for High GP guilds/players to get good rewards
    Old raids are there for Low GP guilds/players to get ok rewards

    This is a free mobile game people
    free mobile games care less about having fair gaming than rewarding people who spend time and/or money. (Not that they don't include fair gaming changes like new player rework and making older character's easier to get.)

    Not that I wouldn't like filling my pockets with mk3 raid tokens as a 2.3mil gp in a 190mil gp guild. But that's just the way it is.

    Not sure if you followed the release of the featured raids, but they were sold as lower tiers for low GP guilds and higher tiers for higher GP guilds. So this is just elitist nonsense. Especially when you can not consider 200M to be beginners, these are on average 4M rosters who should be able to access new content even if they get less Mk3 than the end game guilds.
  • TargetEadu
    1715 posts Member
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    DeusArt wrote: »
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Also, Raid MK 3 is an endgame currency. If people are still trying to unlock CLS and similar early legends, they are not endgame.
    That is non-sense. Idea of new raid is bring them to everyone. That's why this new raids having difficulty tiers and anyone should be able to play it on level 0 difficulty scoring low result. In Krayt and Endor you could drop trash troops and get your 40-100k score.
    Now there is gungans with omicron is only team that get score at g8-9. You literally score 0 with any other purple team.

    If you’re struggling to unlock CLS, or struggling to upgrade a team beyond g8-9, Raid MK 3 will not help you. You can spend it on Zetas, Omicrons, and >R5 Relic Scrap.

    That, and this is the first impressions of this raid for everyone. Saying it’s literally impossible to accomplish something when there’s still new strategies being found and most people still have only had their one, uninformed attempt is just jumping to conclusions.

    Should the early parts of the raid be toned down? Maybe. But this raid also may simply need more strategy or investment than the prior raids.
  • Options
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    DeusArt wrote: »
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Also, Raid MK 3 is an endgame currency. If people are still trying to unlock CLS and similar early legends, they are not endgame.
    That is non-sense. Idea of new raid is bring them to everyone. That's why this new raids having difficulty tiers and anyone should be able to play it on level 0 difficulty scoring low result. In Krayt and Endor you could drop trash troops and get your 40-100k score.
    Now there is gungans with omicron is only team that get score at g8-9. You literally score 0 with any other purple team.

    If you’re struggling to unlock CLS, or struggling to upgrade a team beyond g8-9, Raid MK 3 will not help you. You can spend it on Zetas, Omicrons, and >R5 Relic Scrap.

    That, and this is the first impressions of this raid for everyone. Saying it’s literally impossible to accomplish something when there’s still new strategies being found and most people still have only had their one, uninformed attempt is just jumping to conclusions.

    Should the early parts of the raid be toned down? Maybe. But this raid also may simply need more strategy or investment than the prior raids.

    G8 and G9 have zero shot of doing this raid. Actually G12 can barely kill one droid on the Tier 0 difficulty. This is a complete garbage take. No amount of strategy is going to squeeze out more points in this raid for the Free to Play teams (Non-Gungans and Non-Quadme).

    Should this raid be tuned down? You asked this...the answer is a resounding yes. Most of the SWG Community on here agrees this raid needs to be tuned WAY down. There is no argument for why it shouldn't be. None at all. The only argument you can make for it to NOT be tuned down is to turn away newer players/returning players to the game so the Whale and Endgame accounts can be the only players left playing at the end of the day.

    Who knows, maybe all you End game accounts can create enough Alts to keep you interested while the game dies off with the direction CG has been going. This is a dramatic shift in the game culture from what most people have said, first the Galactic Challenges...now the raid. It's engineered to turn away new/returning players from this game but also engineered to squeeze out as much money as possible from you whales and end game players.

    What I find strange is that you STILL manage to simp for CG even though CG have stated MANY times that the new raiding system of Tier 0-X is DESIGNED for lower GP guilds to participate and still get rewards from the raid. Like CG is basically going back on EVERYTHING they have said with releasing this type of content. And you End game players for some reason think it's your knight and shining armor duty to simp for CG and their tactics instead of trying to promote good balanced gameplay for players of ALL GP levels.

    Also your idea of newer players not needing Mk3 currency is flawed, for one new players can help boost their zeta income with Mk3 currency..which as a new player is VERY limited. Number 2 this type of philosophy is promoting the dissolution of mixed GP guilds. Most Guilds that are under 300 million GP have a huge variety of GP when it comes to the highest GP player to the lowest GP player. This type of design philosophy ostracizes lower GP players and forces the Higher GP players to leave the guild and seek opportunities to gain Mk3 currency again. This hurts newer guilds more than anything because when this happens it not only effects the raids, it effects Territory Wars, Territory Battles and all other Guild aspects of the game (Even down to item donations to help newer players). If your goal is to dissolve guilds already struggling to keep their higher GP members then you are absolutely righteous in your crusade to keep this philosophy of "Only give newer content to the end game guilds".

    But if you truly cared about the health of this game and betterment of the community you would actually argue for ALL content to be playable by every GP level and only differentiate the contents rewards by the original statements CG made when they went to this Tier System.
  • Options
    Our guild tried it and it was bad all around for everyone.

    T0-T3 needs nerfed so bad.

    Why take the MKIIIs away from Endor causing lower guilds like mine(200m) who were finally able to get them to no longer be able to acquire them(or at the very least land 500 which is good for nothing in the raid store).

    Everyone WAS excited for this raid. That was quickly turned around when everyone got into it and saw how ridiculous it is. You’d have to have all zetas and R7 toons to be able to be remotely effective in this raid, or spend 500$ on getting Gungans.

    The Jedi LSB did absolutely nothing unless you had the zetas to drop on those toons, which most don’t because they don’t have enough zetas for them, or using them for toons that aren’t trash like Koth.

    I really enjoyed this game in the beginning, started a guild a month after starting, brought it to where it is now. I am p2p, the zeta chokehold is real for p2p. When you offer LsB in the future I hope you all plan to add zetas(likely as a second purchase) to be able to use the $9.99, $14.99, $19.99, $49.99 LSB toons.

    This game is requires a lot of luck and very little skill, so offering zetas wouldn’t necessarily be P2W
  • DeusArt
    148 posts Member
    edited July 11
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    TargetEadu wrote: »
    If you’re struggling to unlock CLS, or struggling to upgrade a team beyond g8-9, Raid MK 3 will not help you. You can spend it on Zetas, Omicrons, and >R5 Relic Scrap.

    That, and this is the first impressions of this raid for everyone. Saying it’s literally impossible to accomplish something when there’s still new strategies being found and most people still have only had their one, uninformed attempt is just jumping to conclusions.

    Should the early parts of the raid be toned down? Maybe. But this raid also may simply need more strategy or investment than the prior raids.
    Again, you missing point. This is temporary event. In will be useless after 8 month. And CG promised that base level is qual to HSTR by difficulty. But it's not.
    In Krayt, Endor and legacy raids you could get score with purple team. Here only Gungans with 5 zetas may hit 90k.
    If by your logic it is endgame content and it should not be availabele for low gear units why it's not gated by R5 or something like this?
    Post edited by DeusArt on
  • TargetEadu
    1715 posts Member
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    DeusArt wrote: »
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    If you’re struggling to unlock CLS, or struggling to upgrade a team beyond g8-9, Raid MK 3 will not help you. You can spend it on Zetas, Omicrons, and >R5 Relic Scrap.

    That, and this is the first impressions of this raid for everyone. Saying it’s literally impossible to accomplish something when there’s still new strategies being found and most people still have only had their one, uninformed attempt is just jumping to conclusions.

    Should the early parts of the raid be toned down? Maybe. But this raid also may simply need more strategy or investment than the prior raids.
    Again, you missing point. This is temporary event. In will be usefull after 8 month. And CG promised that base level is qual to HSTR by difficulty. But it's not.
    In Krayt, Endor and legacy raids you could get score with purple team. Here only Gungans with 5 zetas may hit 90k.
    If by your logic it is endgame content and it should not be availabele for low gear units why it's not gated by R5 or something like this?

    Based on what so many been saying, it seems like it is gated by R5.

    Maybe that was CG’s intention. Things do change, after all.

    Or maybe even a small investment could make enough of a difference.

    seweiwnwcc4q.png
  • Options
    You know, actually, I'm seeing a bit of a problem here.

    Now hear me out.

    The Raid-3 is meant for top end players, people who need relic mats for R7+ right. Ok, fine.

    And new players are supposed to be working on their accounts to bulk them up to be able to then do the newest content.

    BUT, how are they to ever get to the newest content if the newest raid is always asking for the newest toons that only the top end players can get?

    The stuff people are catching up on w/ LSB like Rey & SLKR or Starkiller or BAM etc etc.
    NONE of that is being used in any of the raids since we adopted the new format.

    So even if a person manages to get "caught up" on quite a bit of content, how are they going to EVER get to the point of being able to participate in the newest raids when every 6-8 months the raid is changing over requiring a different set of NEW toons.

    Now I'm not saying new folks should be able to score even remotely well on this raid, but, from what I've seen today doing the raid, I totally get what they are saying.

    I watched one of my R7-8 teams proceed to score 18K.
    Not 180K, Not 1.8Mil., No no, just, 8-TEEN thousand.
    Now, forgive me, but, that can NOT be well designed if a team that is half R8 gets a score of 18,000 because they lack the DPS to overcome the Regen on the B1s.

    So before completely dismissing the idea that this raid ISN'T working correctly, I think we should take a look at what is needed to be able to pull any sort of score out.

    I'm sure in 2 months I'll be doing a LOT better once Gungans are finished but at 11 Million GP, I'd like to think that a bunch of well modded R7-8 characters can at least get say 40-50% of the way to a Max score.
    Instead of..... 1%

  • Options
    i did 150k on the lowest tier using relic gmy qui on mace r2d2 and low gear lumi
    on manual
    it took forever
    not fun
    at least my four r7 gungans got me 1,5m
  • StarSon
    7563 posts Member
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    You know, actually, I'm seeing a bit of a problem here.



    I watched one of my R7-8 teams proceed to score 18K.
    Not 180K, Not 1.8Mil., No no, just, 8-TEEN thousand.
    Now, forgive me, but, that can NOT be well designed if a team that is half R8 gets a score of 18,000 because they lack the DPS to overcome the Regen on the B1s.


    This is a skill or mod issue, not a design issue.
  • Options
    Being that bugs and bad gameplay are way worse than leaks maybe we can get some volunteer testers again from the community to help optimize swgoh. It wouldn't cost cg anything and it would improve the quality of the content coming into the game.
  • Rius
    408 posts Member
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    You know, actually, I'm seeing a bit of a problem here.

    Now hear me out.

    The Raid-3 is meant for top end players, people who need relic mats for R7+ right. Ok, fine.

    And new players are supposed to be working on their accounts to bulk them up to be able to then do the newest content.

    BUT, how are they to ever get to the newest content if the newest raid is always asking for the newest toons that only the top end players can get?

    The stuff people are catching up on w/ LSB like Rey & SLKR or Starkiller or BAM etc etc.
    NONE of that is being used in any of the raids since we adopted the new format.

    So even if a person manages to get "caught up" on quite a bit of content, how are they going to EVER get to the point of being able to participate in the newest raids when every 6-8 months the raid is changing over requiring a different set of NEW toons.

    Now I'm not saying new folks should be able to score even remotely well on this raid, but, from what I've seen today doing the raid, I totally get what they are saying.

    I watched one of my R7-8 teams proceed to score 18K.
    Not 180K, Not 1.8Mil., No no, just, 8-TEEN thousand.
    Now, forgive me, but, that can NOT be well designed if a team that is half R8 gets a score of 18,000 because they lack the DPS to overcome the Regen on the B1s.

    So before completely dismissing the idea that this raid ISN'T working correctly, I think we should take a look at what is needed to be able to pull any sort of score out.

    I'm sure in 2 months I'll be doing a LOT better once Gungans are finished but at 11 Million GP, I'd like to think that a bunch of well modded R7-8 characters can at least get say 40-50% of the way to a Max score.
    Instead of..... 1%

    On the farming issue, I have gungans R7 waiting for the next Jar Jar event and I am no where near a top end player. They told us in road ahead back in February I think, Gungans would be the most effective. So as they released I used some crystals to farm them. Others are farming as they get a farming node.

    My strategy for a long time is to farm the non accelerated new stuff as yes this will be most relevant for new content with great rewards. It is slower but as you mention LSB’s catch up the rest, with an accelerated burden on zeta and mod. So farming new stuff is not so bad at the moment, my roster is still growing very fast. I have benefited from every LSB apart from the galactic republic. But I focus farmed GLLO for the last raid and Gungan’s for this one. They are not limited to end game or P2P. So I would switch strategy to farm stuff that benefits your economy in game, once you have your fleet for climbing, decent income from AB then focus on each raid as they are announced in preparation. Gungans and GLLO happened to be solid elsewhere in game too. They will have good use in conquest, TB, TW and GAC.

    On the R7-R8 squad getting 18K, I would advise looking for the videos coming out on optimised squads. There is likely a strategy that could turn that atleast into a 300k-1.8M dependant on the squad. If it was separatist they do struggle a lot and I found the Jedi to need a specific line up.
  • DeusArt
    148 posts Member
    edited July 9
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    This thread is about making this raid accessible on low gear. By "accessible" it means you could score 50-100k with g11-12 units only.
    Why this option should be forbidden for 2-3M GP players? Is this really so unbelievable highest score that brake balance?
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