Please tune down the Tier 0 (and potentially Tier 1) Naboo Raid

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  • TargetEadu
    1715 posts Member
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    eizlh0ffftig.png
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    I ran a r7/8 jedi comp, albeit a bad one, as my last attempt on Tier 0 for funsies. Full auto, 6min 20s and 220k score.

    r7/8! On a 5star tier.

    I know it was a bad QGJ lead comp, and full auto, but still a bunch of units that were eligible for tier 5 or 6 should not take that much time to kill tier 0 droids.
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    I doubt we will run this raid again, our top 10ish player have managed to score some personal rewards, but nowhere near enough to justify the time spent. our mid-range players can't earn enough to even get us to the rewards chest.
    most of the require characters make no sense, they are pretty much worthless outside of this one raid, the time and effort to level them up is not worth the reward.
    Endor was a good balance for both high end and mid-range players, there was enough of a reward to make it worthwhile for all players.
    bringing back the T3 rewards (even at a lower level) would solve many problems. it's a kick to the guts taking that resource away from so many players.
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    This raid sucks
  • scuba
    14241 posts Member
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    Being that bugs and bad gameplay are way worse than leaks maybe we can get some volunteer testers again from the community to help optimize swgoh. It wouldn't cost cg anything and it would improve the quality of the content coming into the game.

    Would gain nothing. Beta testing still had bad gameplay after, still had bugs after and the leaks.
  • stewman1991
    179 posts Member
    edited July 10
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    This raid is really bad have r5 to r8 Jedi scoring 157k plus a GIANT waste of time at least the last raid took like 20 min this raid take too much time!!!! We have lives cg!!!!
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    StarSon wrote: »
    This is a skill or mod issue, not a design issue.

    No, its not

    With 11.1 Mil GP & a mod score north of 6, it's neither of those but thanks for making a useless comment.

    What it is, is not having Lumi in lead because she is 1 of 4 useless Jedi that I left at G6 long ago.

    As we have discovered, her Lead blows away most anyone else to include Beq's lead that I was using.

    But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop gearing Gungans just to invest in her for the first run.

    I may do so in the next couple runs, but the fact that you basically HAVE to use her on this raid would qualify as a design issue.

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    Our now 130m gp guild was in the end comfortably able to get the 3rd crate in the speeder bike raid. Our try at the Naboo raid was a total waste of 180k raid tickets, not even half way to getting any rewards at all!

    It's just wrong how the raid has 5* requirement, but even at easiest level you are facing g13 mobs with overactive healing, so you actually need much better toons to not end up with literally 0 points. Also for good results either you need paywalled characters or you need to invest in bad characters with no future.

    We are now totally cut of from mk3 currency, and since we are getting no rewards for trying the Naboo raid motivating ourselves to improve and try more will be very hard.

    This is just a bad experience and turn off for low tier players. Is that what CG intended?
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    StarSon wrote: »
    This is a skill or mod issue, not a design issue.

    No, its not

    With 11.1 Mil GP & a mod score north of 6, it's neither of those but thanks for making a useless comment.

    What it is, is not having Lumi in lead because she is 1 of 4 useless Jedi that I left at G6 long ago.

    As we have discovered, her Lead blows away most anyone else to include Beq's lead that I was using.

    But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop gearing Gungans just to invest in her for the first run.

    I may do so in the next couple runs, but the fact that you basically HAVE to use her on this raid would qualify as a design issue.

    You don't HAVE to use her - you should if you want a good score but you don't HAVE to.

    This happens every time a new raid drops - both before and after Krayt. There are always optimal teams and must-have characters to get good scores. It's always been that way. Who would have thought people would be putting relic 8 on Admiral Ackbar and Chief Chirpa before the Endor raid? Who would have guessed that people would be taking Cad Bane or Tuskens to relic 8 before the Krayt raid?

    Limiting the pool of usable characters makes it easier and faster to develop new content - that's not a bad thing, that's a good thing. Can you imagine doing the speeder bike raid every week for the rest of your time in this game?

    There's clearly something going on with the lower tiers that may need some investigation and/or intervention from CG to bring it in line for smaller rosters - but with an 11m GP roster it should be fairly trivial for you to put gear on a few key toons to optimize your score. Again - that's pretty normal for any raid.

    Raids aren't supposed to be easy. That's why they're called raids.
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
  • StarSon
    7571 posts Member
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    StarSon wrote: »
    This is a skill or mod issue, not a design issue.

    No, its not

    With 11.1 Mil GP & a mod score north of 6, it's neither of those but thanks for making a useless comment.

    What it is, is not having Lumi in lead because she is 1 of 4 useless Jedi that I left at G6 long ago.

    As we have discovered, her Lead blows away most anyone else to include Beq's lead that I was using.

    But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop gearing Gungans just to invest in her for the first run.

    I may do so in the next couple runs, but the fact that you basically HAVE to use her on this raid would qualify as a design issue.

    Your inability to use the characters that were designed to excel in this raid does not mean CG failed to design something properly.
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    scuba wrote: »
    Being that bugs and bad gameplay are way worse than leaks maybe we can get some volunteer testers again from the community to help optimize swgoh. It wouldn't cost cg anything and it would improve the quality of the content coming into the game.

    Would gain nothing. Beta testing still had bad gameplay after, still had bugs after and the leaks.

    Yeah if they become aware of bugs and do nothing about it then it would only be wasted time. But if there is an interest to do the work then it would be useful.
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    Digitizoid wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Digitizoid wrote: »
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    People are also still learning strategies, and even the high-level guilds still have people waiting for JarJar or for MQG. It’s a new raid for everyone, things will shake out.

    I don't think it's a good strategy to require all 50 members of your guild to have a full Relic Luminara+Zeta and Full B2 Seperatists + Sidious + Maul Relic'd. A lot of our members are still trying to work on Journey guides for CLS or Revan etc. Some of them recently just hit 85. Forcing them to farm these teams just to land a kill on a single droid on the Tier 0 of the raid is terrible game design.

    I've also had a lot of arguments from individuals about "The new raid isn't meant for lower GP accounts, it's only meant for end game players"....that's a terrible terrible take. Locking guilds out of Mk3 Raid currency just because they have some newer/lower GP players is trash game design and doesn't grow the game at all. This will turn away newer players or returning players to the game since they won't be able to find themselves a guild due to the raid being this over-tuned at lower tiers.

    Fun fact on this raid, did you know the Tier 0 Health/Damage and healing of the droids is almost the exact same as Tier 3 or 4 difficulty?

    Your argument would make sense if this new raid didn't lock out 60% of all guilds from obtaining Mk3 currency.

    Good thing 73.6% Of All Statistics Are Made Up... Just about as bad clickbait as ahanl D's yt videos.

    There was a poll taken on Reddit asking how many will receive significantly less rewards or no rewards at all from the raid.

    Out of 500 polls
    334 stated they were getting significantly less or no rewards
    127 stated they will be getting slightly less rewards
    25 stated Equal Rewards to Endor
    and 5 stated they will be getting an increase in rewards.

    I didn't pull my numbers out of a hat.

    I fully agree that CG needs to do a pass on Tier 0/1 difficulty. The raid is pretty well balanced at the higher difficulty tiers, but it’s much more restrictive for new/non-vet guilds.

    But using Reddit as your data source is like going to the Star Wars Theory comments section for reviews of a new D+ show. You’re going to get the most negative view of anything CG does as humanly possible.
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    For guilds struggling to get on the board, the only real secret right now is Darth Maul. Lumi can work but needs more investment and is a worse team/charafter. d2v6j085xitq.png
  • DeusArt
    148 posts Member
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    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    For guilds struggling to get on the board, the only real secret right now is Darth Maul. Lumi can work but needs more investment and is a worse team/charafter. d2v6j085xitq.png
    Did you test B2/seps are they could score without Sidius and Maul?
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    I’ve seen nothing close to that score for the gear for a Sep team without Maul/Sid. Maul is just flat out the strongest single character in the raid, and Sid’s lead supports him.
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    You don't HAVE to use her - you should if you want a good score but you don't HAVE to.

    This happens every time a new raid drops - both before and after Krayt. There are always optimal teams and must-have characters to get good scores. It's always been that way.
    Yes, but, you used to have full roster to choose from.
    Now its 25 needed of 30.
    Which again says "5 not needed".
    But only if its "THIS-5" and not any of "THESE".
    After some early testing my guild basically concluded that a 5th team isn't even needed.
    There are only 4 "worthy" teams & some of those aren't even a full 5.
    Me, I find that a bit "limiting" and really shoe horns you into having to use a couple specific things.
    Even SBR let you choose which Trooper or which Rebel or which Ewok you used for the most part.

    Who would have thought people would be putting relic 8 on Admiral Ackbar and Chief Chirpa before the Endor raid?
    Who would have guessed that people would be taking Cad Bane or Tuskens to relic 8 before the Krayt raid?
    Honestly, I did none of that & was still contributing well above my GP compared to the rest of the guild.
    Limiting the pool of usable characters makes it easier and faster to develop new content - that's not a bad thing, that's a good thing.
    I don't disagree.
    But there is "limit" and there is "LIMIT".
    The selections we've had so far are IMO way to restrictive.
    You can leave out some GLs but this "only use 1/4 of 2 factions" kind of thing is overboard IMO.
    Can you imagine doing the speeder bike raid every week for the rest of your time in this game?
    Meh, its no different than when we did Pit, Tank, Sith, C-Pit every week over & over.
    There's clearly something going on with the lower tiers that may need some investigation and/or intervention from CG to bring it in line for smaller rosters - but with an 11m GP roster it should be fairly trivial for you to put gear on a few key toons to optimize your score. Again - that's pretty normal for any raid.
    The issue is a bit of gear isn't going to do anything.
    Either I match her at R7 w/ the Rest of the team, or, I pair her up w/ lower toons of which, I basically have none.
    I could take her to G12 easily enough & run the team much lower, but again, what is the point of Tier-0 v/s Tier-1 if I do that?

    Raids aren't supposed to be easy. That's why they're called raids.
    Meh, there is a difference between Easy & "MUST HAVE XYZ" to do anything worth while.

    Watching a team of 37-38 Relic levels proceed to do nothing is pretty lame.

    They scored higher at the Lower Tier, which actually might be one of the worst things I've seen so far.

    In the Previous 2 "new" raids, you were basically supposed to run the team & the max relic level because of the way the various bonuses work to offense power in the higher tiers.

    This raid isn't operating that way from what I've seen.
    Most everyone is actually getting BETTER scores going down to lower tiers.

    To me that is saying they have the levels tuned incorrectly unless they are now saying you will need to have above Max relics to accomplish anything.

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    In the Previous 2 "new" raids, you were basically supposed to run the team & the max relic level because of the way the various bonuses work to offense power in the higher tiers.

    This raid isn't operating that way from what I've seen.
    Most everyone is actually getting BETTER scores going down to lower tiers.

    To me that is saying they have the levels tuned incorrectly unless they are now saying you will need to have above Max relics to accomplish anything.

    You’re playing this very differently than I did, or most of my guild did. I got 5 max scores, and the only character that was over reliced was GMY because I had 4 R7 Jedi and he was R8 for reqs.
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    Yes, but, you used to have full roster to choose from.
    Now its 25 needed of 30.
    Which again says "5 not needed".
    But only if its "THIS-5" and not any of "THESE".
    After some early testing my guild basically concluded that a 5th team isn't even needed.
    There are only 4 "worthy" teams & some of those aren't even a full 5.
    Me, I find that a bit "limiting" and really shoe horns you into having to use a couple specific things.
    Even SBR let you choose which Trooper or which Rebel or which Ewok you used for the most part.

    In every raid there have been optimal teams for each phase - and the optimal team changed in every phase. Were you not told by your guild to farm JTR for P1 when HSTR released? JKR for P2? And so on...

    The difference here is the guessing game is much easier specifically because there's a smaller pool of potential guesses. And if you wait just a few weeks - you don't have to guess at all, because someone already figured it out for you.
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
  • scuba
    14241 posts Member
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    scuba wrote: »
    Being that bugs and bad gameplay are way worse than leaks maybe we can get some volunteer testers again from the community to help optimize swgoh. It wouldn't cost cg anything and it would improve the quality of the content coming into the game.

    Would gain nothing. Beta testing still had bad gameplay after, still had bugs after and the leaks.

    Yeah if they become aware of bugs and do nothing about it then it would only be wasted time. But if there is an interest to do the work then it would be useful.

    They where aware of bugs and did nothing. They are aware of bugs and wait to maybe fix them.
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    Yes, but, you used to have full roster to choose from.
    Now its 25 needed of 30.
    Which again says "5 not needed".
    But only if its "THIS-5" and not any of "THESE".
    After some early testing my guild basically concluded that a 5th team isn't even needed.
    There are only 4 "worthy" teams & some of those aren't even a full 5.
    Me, I find that a bit "limiting" and really shoe horns you into having to use a couple specific things.
    Even SBR let you choose which Trooper or which Rebel or which Ewok you used for the most part.

    In every raid there have been optimal teams for each phase - and the optimal team changed in every phase. Were you not told by your guild to farm JTR for P1 when HSTR released? JKR for P2? And so on...

    The difference here is the guessing game is much easier specifically because there's a smaller pool of potential guesses. And if you wait just a few weeks - you don't have to guess at all, because someone already figured it out for you.

    It’s not even really a guess, a lot of the time. The Jedi get their strongest benefits from Healers in the Lead, and from Potency Up. There’s 1 Jedi Healer Leader and 1 source of Potency Up.
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    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Yes, but, you used to have full roster to choose from.
    Now its 25 needed of 30.
    Which again says "5 not needed".
    But only if its "THIS-5" and not any of "THESE".
    After some early testing my guild basically concluded that a 5th team isn't even needed.
    There are only 4 "worthy" teams & some of those aren't even a full 5.
    Me, I find that a bit "limiting" and really shoe horns you into having to use a couple specific things.
    Even SBR let you choose which Trooper or which Rebel or which Ewok you used for the most part.

    In every raid there have been optimal teams for each phase - and the optimal team changed in every phase. Were you not told by your guild to farm JTR for P1 when HSTR released? JKR for P2? And so on...

    The difference here is the guessing game is much easier specifically because there's a smaller pool of potential guesses. And if you wait just a few weeks - you don't have to guess at all, because someone already figured it out for you.

    It’s not even really a guess, a lot of the time. The Jedi get their strongest benefits from Healers in the Lead, and from Potency Up. There’s 1 Jedi Healer Leader and 1 source of Potency Up.

    This right here, 1 singular Jedi Healer lead that can do a Heal over time and 1 single Jedi that does Potency up. If you don't have these characters in a single Jedi team you won't be scoring anything at all. The problem with this Raid is that if you don't have PERFECT stacked modifiers for your Jedi team or Seperatist team (which are extremely limited to only a few characters) you will not score any points at all.

    In Endor you were able to roll with a Relic Ewok and a couple G12 characters and max out Tier 0 with no care of modifiers. At higher Tiers it mattered but lower tiers it didn't matter much at all. This is the biggest issue I see. Tier 0 shouldn't REQUIRE you to have every stacked modifier possible to even take out a single droid. This is a very flawed design and Tier 0 and Tier 1 need to be rebalanced and nerfed.
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    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    You’re playing this very differently than I did, or most of my guild did. I got 5 max scores, and the only character that was over reliced was GMY because I had 4 R7 Jedi and he was R8 for reqs.

    Awesome, Please let me know what 5 Jedi it was that got you the 1.8 Million w/o having a Healer in the Lead?
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    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    You’re playing this very differently than I did, or most of my guild did. I got 5 max scores, and the only character that was over reliced was GMY because I had 4 R7 Jedi and he was R8 for reqs.

    Awesome, Please let me know what 5 Jedi it was that got you the 1.8 Million w/o having a Healer in the Lead?

    As of right now the only viable non-healer Jedi lead that we know of is Beq. But what does that have to do with what Dawnsinger said?
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
  • Dianora
    131 posts Member
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    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    You’re playing this very differently than I did, or most of my guild did. I got 5 max scores, and the only character that was over reliced was GMY because I had 4 R7 Jedi and he was R8 for reqs.

    Awesome, Please let me know what 5 Jedi it was that got you the 1.8 Million w/o having a Healer in the Lead?

    ef9ysn7y3rcz.jpg
    6q3aj45k4atd.png

    Where will you move the goalposts next?
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    On moving the goal posts…

    The premiere unit for both Krayt (Jabba) and Endor (Leia) were always active in the journey guide. Meanwhile, Jar Jar has only been available once so far and returns every three months.

    Jabba was released 6 months before Krayt, Leia was released 2.5 months before Endor, and Jar Jar is even sooner at 2 months.

    Maul was an older conquest unit that had been in proving grounds for 11 months before Krayt started, Endor had no conquest units, while Queen Amadala was needed just after the 4th conquest that awarded her shards.

    There is no comparable on Krayt or Endor for KAM on Naboo. KAM is a reward from a legacy Territory Battle whose difficult would rival that of many RISE missions. It someone started farming KAM now with ALL their GET3 currency, they might get 30 shards every 4 weeks and wouldn’t come close to getting KAM to 7 stars before Naboo ended while sabotaging their development with poor efficiency on their GET3.

    At the start of the Krayt raid, there were 6 Marquee units released within the prior year. All were farmable and 4 hit double drops within the life of the Krayt raid. There were only 4 Marquees for Endor, all were node-farmable for at least a month prior to the raid launch, and only 1 went to double drops during the raid’s lifetime. For Naboo, we have now seen increase in number of Marquees to 7, Padawan Obi didn’t go to a node until raid launch while Master Qui still isn’t node-farmable.

    Endor was very accessible in its requirements, even to the point where I even could say overly generous. While Leia was needed for the highest total score, the common old journey reqs of Han and Piett could easily get 2m. Many combinations could put up high scores for whatever their gear levels were.

    Many people unlocked Jabba over the course of the raid. You could easily put 5 squads together and not even need a full Tusken team. Five purple Jawas could get 300k without a zeta.

    For Naboo, we have to choose 5 teams from a possible 6. The Sith team is the most accesible, a Gungan squad that requires a lot of Kyros and zeta where their 5th isn’t currently available, the Queen squad is gated by a too-recent conquest unit and a Marquee unit that isn’t even farmable yet, the ideal Beq team has a recent Marquee and the legacy TB reward, the leftover Dark Side units may get 50% scores for their gear, and the leftover Jedi are artificially propped up by a raid mechanic rather than a permanent rework.

    How long is this raid going to last before Heir to the Empire hits with its Remnants, Night Sisters, New Republic, and LS Mandalorians? I worry that the inaccessibility is increasing.

    As a final thought, the most current raid is listed as the premier raid for everyone rather than the premier raid for just end game comment.
  • Dawnsinger
    153 posts Member
    edited July 13
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    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    You’re playing this very differently than I did, or most of my guild did. I got 5 max scores, and the only character that was over reliced was GMY because I had 4 R7 Jedi and he was R8 for reqs.

    Awesome, Please let me know what 5 Jedi it was that got you the 1.8 Million w/o having a Healer in the Lead?

    Beq lead Jedi got me 1.8m. Lumi lead got me 1.2m. I also didn’t go for max scores with Bo lead Mandos or Carth lead OR in Krayt either. We’re back to needing to use real teams instead of whatever we happened to have lying around. It’s different than Endor, but the same as Krayt or the early days of all the previous raids. Limited choices if you want a high score, but you don’t need to over relic those teams.
    Post edited by Dawnsinger on
  • Badger_Diaz
    255 posts Member
    edited July 13
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    Having r3 gr/Jedi squad barely hit 30k in tier zero is some way off a well balanced system, even without mods.
  • TargetEadu
    1715 posts Member
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    Having r3 gr/Jedi squad barely hit 30k in tier zero is some way off a well balanced system, even without mods.

    … why are you trying without mods?
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    TargetEadu wrote: »
    Having r3 gr/Jedi squad barely hit 30k in tier zero is some way off a well balanced system, even without mods.

    … why are you trying without mods?

    Testing
  • cmi
    11 posts Member
    edited July 14
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    You guys realize this thread is (well, was…) about talking tuning down the difficulty tier 0/1 here? Why all this bragging with max score posts for higher difficulty rankings with high relic units from late mid to endgame players? Gosh.

    CG themselves stated the new raid should accessible to everybody with differences in rewards for more endgame and newer players like Endor was. Now this is obviously not the case - resulting in the „petition“ to tune down tier0/tier1 since requirements and enemy levels don’t fit.

    You guys are really lacking empathy and seem to enjoy the thin air on your high horses talking about long time ago when raid XYZ and GL ABC…
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