Is Kylo Ren really the son of Snoke and Capt. Phasma?

QuantumRubicon
21 posts Member
edited April 2016
I know we can expect Disney to go with the obvious idea that Kylo Ren is the son of Han and Leia, but is that really true? Let's consider the evidence.

1. Lor San Tekka says that Kylo Ren did not rise from the Dark Side, but also that he cannot deny the truth that is his family. Then Kylo Ren says, "You're so right," and kills him. We don't know what rising from the Dark Side means, but clearly the truth of his family is Dark Side stuff. That's not Han and Leia, or Luke, or Anakin, except during a brief period when Anakin was Darth Vader, but even then, he wasn't completely Dark, which is why Luke was able to get Vader to redeem himself and return to being a Jedi.

2. The first we hear of Ren's relationship to Han Solo is when Snoke tells Kylo Ren that the droid is in the hands of his father, Han Solo. But do we really trust Snoke?

3. When Ren has Darth Vader's helmet, Ren asks his grandfather to help him see the power of the Darkness. But Anakin returned to the Light Side. Surely, he wouldn't help anyone see the power of the Darkness. We don't know that Ren was referring to Vader as his grandfather. And even if he was, he might believe that, but that doesn't make it true.

4. Han says that one boy who was being trained by Luke turned against him and destroyed everything. But no one ever says that was Kylo Ren.

5. When Leia arrives at Maz Kanata's planet, Han tells her that he saw their son. There were a lot people there. We don't know that he's referring to Kylo Ren.

6. When Han and Leia are together at Resistance HQ, they refer to their son as being lost forever or not. But, again, they don't say that it's Kylo Ren.

7. When Han meets Kylo Ren at Starkiller Base, Han tells Ren to take off the mask so he (Han) can see the face of his son. But that's before Ren takes off his mask. Maybe Han was mistaken. Maybe he didn't see the face of his son when Ren took off the mask. Okay, granted, Han says, "Come home. We miss you." But that doesn't mean he's his son. After all, both Han and Ren refer to "my son" and "your son," respectively, in the third person.

8. Even if Kylo Ren was raised by Han and Leia, that doesn't mean he's their biological son. Granted, Han says there was too much Vader in him, but surely that's just a metaphor. Vader can't literally be in him.

9. The 2014 script says that Ren is 32. That would mean he was born in 1982. But we know for certain that Han was encased in carbonite from 1980 to 1983. That's the clincher for me.

10. On the other hand, Snoke is powerful and Kylo Ren is similarly so.

11. Snoke is Dark and so is Ren.

12. Who more would Snoke want as his protege than his own son?

13. Ren looks kind of Snokey. The sides of his mask even look like the sides of Snoke's face.

14. Ren has the same annoying personality as Snoke.

Replies

  • cosmicturtle333
    5004 posts Member
    edited April 2016
    1 - He did not rise from the dark side, he arose from the light side. Hence why Lor San Tekka says that Kylo Ren did not rise from the Dark Side.
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
  • Just read through the rest, okay. You got me.
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
  • dvl009
    529 posts Member
    pretty sure snoke is sterile
  • Zanhaep
    358 posts Member
    then you realise Han says 'the face of my son' when asked what he will see if Kylo takes off the mask
  • Zanhaep wrote: »
    then you realise Han says 'the face of my son' when asked what he will see if Kylo takes off the mask

    Yes. Neat points but I think it's fairly clear in the movie that Han and Leia are Kylo Ren's parents. I also think it's pretty well implied that a younger Kylo Ren was responsible for killing the other Padawans that Luke was training. It was well acted by Harrisson Ford the concerned and loving look of a father when he encountered Kylo at the end. If he ends up not being the father I will truly be surprised.

    The real question in mind is where did Rey come from or who is she related to? I keep seeing YouTube spoilers suggesting she's Anakin's daughter, Obi-Wan's daughter, but she's entirely too young for any of that. We know nothing about Luke between ep 6 and 7 other than he attempted to start training Jedi, it went bad, and he went into hiding for some reason. Perhaps one of the other Jedi that was killed was Luke's wife, assuming Mara Jade makes it into canon somehow, or potentially just killed Rey's mom. It's obvious that Rey received some Jedi training as her encounters late in the movie started to uncover it; she was far too skilled in the force to not have been trained. She was more skilled at the end of ep 7 than Luke was midway through ep 5 before he met Yoda. Not to mention her ability to figure out how to fix things and fly a ship she's never flown really does related back to traits that both Luke and Anakin had; if she ends-up being a Skywalker I will not be surprised by that one.
  • Y'all might be missing the point of this thread. SATIRE!

    Obviously, Kylo Ren is Han and Leia's biological son who ruined Luke's Jedi Training School etc.

    Equally obviously, Rey is Luke's biological daughter. Really, really, really not a question.

    And also obvious Luke has been watching over her and communicating with her, which is how she knows so much about the Force.

    Do you know the rule? Once is an event, twice is a coincidence, three times is pattern.

    (1) Lor San Tekka (Luke's friend)
    (2) lives on Jakku
    (3) near Rey
    (4) and has THE missing map fragment.
    (5) Millenium Falcon is in the same place as Rey.
    (6) Han and Chewie just happen to be in the area when Rey leaves Jakku, for the first time, on the Millennium Falcon.
    (7) They just happen to take Rey to Maz Kanata, who just happens to have Luke's old lightsaber
    (8) that calls to Rey.

    How much more do you need?
  • dvl009
    529 posts Member
    AshW wrote: »
    Equally obviously, Rey is Luke's biological daughter. Really, really, really not a question.

    I'm not saying you are wrong nor right, however on BBC news beat covering the TriBeCa film festival there was a report.
    The report that some small kid had asked J.J Abrahams, and put him on the spot infront of hundreds of people who Reys parents was and he replied, I quote;

    "Rey’s parents are not in Episode 7. So I can’t possibly tell you who they are at this moment. But all I will say is that this is something that Rey thinks about, too."

    tD8ik0N.png

    she's thinking about returning to WWE
  • Lol
  • dvl009 wrote: »
    AshW wrote: »
    Equally obviously, Rey is Luke's biological daughter. Really, really, really not a question.

    I'm not saying you are wrong nor right, however on BBC news beat covering the TriBeCa film festival there was a report.
    The report that some small kid had asked J.J Abrahams, and put him on the spot infront of hundreds of people who Reys parents was and he replied, I quote;

    "Rey’s parents are not in Episode 7. So I can’t possibly tell you who they are at this moment. But all I will say is that this is something that Rey thinks about, too."

    tD8ik0N.png

    she's thinking about returning to WWE

    Looks more like Lucha Libre to me. B)
    Proud and Belgian officer of [DTA] BIER DTA | official Lando Calrissian fanboy KappaPride
  • My satire has been hijacked by goofiness
  • Ogunn
    31 posts Member
    I doubt it...unless phasma is into old, busted up looking dudes and he's into gigantic chicks...
  • Han was obviously a player. Rey is just one of his illegitimate children.
  • dvl009
    529 posts Member
    Han was obviously a player. Rey is just one of his illegitimate children.

    han slept with his own daughter
  • Didn't JJ Abrams say that Rey's parents aren't in ep7 at all? So she can't be Luke's daughter since luke is in the movie.
  • maybe Obi-Wan got some outer rim lovin' during his exile. Out popped Rey!
  • Darth_Jay77
    3163 posts Member
    edited April 2016
    maybe Obi-Wan got some outer rim lovin' during his exile. Out popped Rey!

    I'm guessing you're joking but just in-case. :smiley:

    She's too young. Figure if Luke is around 70 in Ep7 then Rey would have to be near 50 at least and she's most likely in her early 20's at most.
  • Luke is not 70 lol. For him to be 70 he'd have to have been born well before the Clone Wars. Which we know he was born at the end. Making him 19 at the events of A New Hope 23 at the end of RoTJ. +30 to Force Awakens 53.
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