I really think protection has ruined PVP

Toukai
1822 posts Member
This isn't a complaint thread about me being stomped by a team comp or specific character, nor is it a thread for complaining about specific circumstances. It is more of a discussion on protection and the state of PVP.

After giving the protection patch several weeks of testing, I have come to the conclusion that protection has absolutely ruined team diversity compared to pre-protection era.

I usually read a lot of posts about other users from top #1 to top #100 to generally gauge the state of a META based on what top performers + general top population use. Pre-prot, there were huge team diversities ranging from Phasma Lead, Dooku Lead, Clones, Ewoks, and rebel/resistance teams , and droids (oddly enough).

Since the patch, I am lucky to find a team that *doesnt* contain a Phasma(L) with at minimum a daka or RG.

I am seeing several droid teams here and there, but for the most part the META is back to Phasma or Dooku leads paired with Daka/RG and that's ALL.
As far as the eye can see. A proverbial sea of helmets and bearded old men. I haven't come across a clone or ewok team since the patch, or really any other combination of a team. Protection has just absolute shifted specific *annoyance* characters to the top of the list. Why? they no longer die quickly so why not have a team full of annoying characters?

I really do miss pre-patch if only for the diversity it brought.

Now, with the taunt patch, Counter characters are pretty much worthless. Dooku is becoming a liability, being replaced by Obi-Wan from p2p'ers, and I can see that with ST Han being farmed by pretty much everyone.

This game has gone from a fun pvp experience to: Who can get the most revives, dodges, and deflections first.

There have even been complaints of increased dodging without a leader (my own personal experience just says bad luck, but it's horrifying to watch an IG86 dodge 3 opening attacks when Sid is the leader).

I really feel like if they just removed the protection, but kept the taunt patch, PVP would be fun again. Annoying characters would still be annoying, but they would at least DIE when focused instead of getting two or three turns to just completely shift the game based entirely on RNG.

It's almost to the point that I don't even try to play strategically anymore, I'd rather just hit "auto" and let the RNG decide who wins or loses and I can't honestly tell if it makes a difference or not. That's not fun, at least to me.

Replies

  • LastJedi
    3047 posts Member
    edited April 2016
    Aside from RG being one of the members, I see just as much diversity as before on my younger shard. The problem is protection makes defense almost impossible.

    There are one or two almost unbeatable teams, right now, because of unobtainium. But beyond those specific P2P high level leia teams and/or Steroid RG/Han teams, a lot of other teams are now easy to beat. Easy being more than 66% chance.

    This makes top tiers in arena more about refreshes and timing than long-term planning/farming.

    I don't really care either way, mind you. I don't have time to play 10 matches in a row starting at 4PM every day. But it's kinda fun on the occasions I do.

    OTOH, long farm to get an unbeatable team is a neat idea. It's kinda what RPG'ers feel like should happen. I mean, OTOH, you think because you farmed yoda for 6 months, you should be more unbeatable than an easily farmed team. Maybe. But the problem is in SWGOH, there are no rare items/crafting or one-way branches in ability trees to differentiate toons. Everyones 7S toon with Gear X, is the same as anyone else's. And no matter how long you farmed, you know your team could go poof with the next rebalance or toon introduced.

    I think the only thing that is constant is change. Change is going to happen, so don't get too comfortable.

    On my server, RG/Daka/Rey teams, plus or minus Dooku L, are kinda sorta metaish. But even they are not incredibly strong on defense. They are to be avoided, but once you figure out how to beat them, it's doable (with my vanilla team) greater than 66% of the time. The only reason they are to be avoided is because there are plenty of teams that are beatable 90% of the time. No defense except what is provided by the precrafter wall.
  • LastJedi
    3047 posts Member
    edited April 2016
    An advantage of weak defense is that it rewards active players.

    If certain toons that are hard to farm are necessary for strong defense/arena rewards, then it becomes much more a matter of the rich getting richer... and those guys will soon run out of things to spend crystals on, while others on their shards might be frustrated.
  • Toukai
    1822 posts Member
    LastJedi wrote: »
    The problem is protection makes defense almost impossible.

    There are one or two almost unbeatable teams, right now, because of unobtainium. But beyond those specific P2P high level leia teams and/or Steroid RG/Han teams, a lot of other teams are now easy to beat. Easy being more than 66% chance.

    @LastJedi

    I actually found that the protection stat made many groups far harder to beat rather than easier. More specifically Phasma(L) + Kylo if you don't have a YODA (which I dont, f2p and didnt focus Jedi for event). With protection, Kylo gets more procs because he lives longer, same with everyone else.

    Dooku, on my shard, is being replaced with more Phasma's, but its a 50/50 on either being a leader. Prior to the patch, as I stated earlier, I saw so many different team compositions even despite Dooku's glaringly powerful leader ability.

    I have run into the unobtanium problem myself, with a higher gear'ed Lumi obliterating one of my characters simply because my Lumi wasn't pre-crafted, thus keeping her stuck at g8. I really despise the way devs have handled this. It should have been rolled back *IMMEDIATLY* or at least put in the guild gear content *AFTER* guild content came out. Right now I am having an extremely hard time even staying relevant in the top #50 spot simply because I cannot beat teams who had pre-crafted.

    Still, I find with the length of battles increased that the META has pigeon-holed people into using specific characters rather than opening up more team flavors. I say this because when you can kill someone in just a few turns, characters that normally wouldnt last long anyways can still shine in those burst moments.

    Meanwhile, with stretched out matches, you force people to use hard CC'ers and turn meter manipulators. Right now, there is no better character than Phasma (L) + Daka for that exact reason, which is why I see Phasma+Daka combo's horribly over-taking Dooku leaders (and not just because ST Han now hard counters Dooku)
  • LastJedi
    3047 posts Member
    Also, maybe you missed the memo. Dooku is apparently insta-win for any ST Han team, now.
  • Toukai
    1822 posts Member
    LastJedi wrote: »
    Also, maybe you missed the memo. Dooku is apparently insta-win for any ST Han team, now.

    @LastJedi
    Nope. I just posted a topic on it. Yes, with the taunt changes ST Han is a hard counter to Dooku (which is another reason I am seeing ST Han pop up all over the place).

    I just feel with the way the META is rolling all I am going to see is ST Han/RG/Daka/Phasma and pretty much nothing else :(
  • Alexone
    3646 posts Member
    Yea the 18/20 Dookus pre-update provided much diversity...
  • Toukai
    1822 posts Member
    edited April 2016
    Alexone wrote: »
    Yea the 18/20 Dookus pre-update provided much diversity...
    @Alexone
    Surprisingly I didnt have that issue on my shard. I have seen numerous groups such as Teebo(L) to play stealth shenanigans, Rex leading clones, Phasma (well... who hasnt seen her), Ewoks were becoming a thing even despite Dooku being prevelant.

    Of course, I am on a shard with super whales and active players. I need a deathnote to help relax my server a bit :)
  • LastJedi
    3047 posts Member
    edited April 2016
    My shard is pretty new. 85% of top teams have RG. But that's where the similarity ends.
    QGJ is probably the next most common toon.

    There is no strong leader on my servers. The only common leader is QGJ. Probably half. After that, there's a hodgepodge. Phasma/Dooku makes a showing, but nothing to note. On many of these teams, QGJ L skill is pretty minimal in impact, too. Just the fact that his leadership is better than nothing.

    I think one effect of protection is synergy is kinda out the window. RG is good. But actual empire teams are far from ready on my shard. This makes my arena super diverse in the fact that it's RG, QGJ and 3 random other toons. Daka are Rey are popular but by no means OP. But it's actually sorta not diverse, for the fact that aside from droid teams or the occasional jedi team, there is very little synergy to be found.

    I am guessing this changes on a more mature server. Clone teams, etc. My shard is not going to see these kind of teams for awhile.
  • Usho
    586 posts Member
    there are some OHKOS too tho ;d
  • I run clones. I live at #1. It's odd having to back challenge people to get my arena requirement for the day.
  • I'm the only in my top 30 running Phasma lead, and only because I have her absolutely maxed gear at lvl 80 and she makes my Omega Max Rey even deadlier a killer. Just imagine hiotting with Omega Flurry of Blows with Offense up and Advantage. It is deadly beauty at its finest. Phasma has always had a great kit, she was rendered useless in the top level due to the Evasion meta and her lack of speed. Now with protection added a fully geared Phasma is back in as a good, strong character. I'm on a late Nov shard and I do not leave the top 5 whether I fight or not most times. Phasma is not the meta, Evasion/DPS with RG or Han is the meta right now. Phasma with the right team counters that meta. Evasion is still king with Dooku and Ben sitting on the throne, though Tano is also very good for it as well.
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