Tier 7 Raiding (Heroic Rancor & You)

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Alita
474 posts
edited May 2016
Hi there, here's some info...

First, I'm not going to spell out strats, I'm only here to provide you with information. I don't know what your rosters are, or anything about your account, so I have no idea what you're working with. Also, this is not a loot thread, or a change stuff thread. there are plenty of other threads for you to talk about those things.

Tier 7 is different. It is a new fight. You should not think about it as T6, but harder.

The two major differences in this fight are the HP of each phase, and the boss's tenacity.
T6: 6/10/10/6 (millions)
T7: 2/4/4/2 (millions)
(These are rough numbers. I don't actually remember how much the T6 Rancor had, but those look somewhat accurate for each phase)

HUGE difference in HP here. Let's talk about it...
You do not receive any character resets on T7, so it actually makes sense that the HP is lower to account for this. If the HP per phase was not reduced, T7 would be out of reach for most of the player base, who does not have oodles of 7* characters sitting in the wings. This would be a bad move, as everyone wants to do T7 for those sweet, sweet, Han Solo shards.

Great, we've established that the devs are being kind to us ^_^

We're going to revisit the topic of HP after we talk about tenacity, as their relationship is very important in this fight.

Tenacity:
T6: ~70% debuff/TM reduction SUCCESS ^_^ (probably a little more, I didn't see many resists)
T7: ~10% debuff/TM reduction SUCCESS >.< (maybe less, I stopped trying (characters with ~90%+ potency seem to land 60%+))

These numbers made me sad, as I'd just made Teebo AWESOME, and now he's benched. Oh well, I'll survive (so will Teebo, since he's on the bench, not getting his face eaten).

The relationship between the boss HP and tenacity is very important. You are no longer able to control the fight like you could in T6. This fight would be a JOKE if you could still manipulate boss TM like you could in T6 with his newly reduced HP totals. It is harder to get damage in because speed down and defense down no longer stick, he now acts with impunity, and eats your face. Oh, debuffs stick if he's been doored. I recommend sticking some stuff to him while he's doored (he's still going to eat your face).

Oh, he hits harder. He will eat your face.

A couple other things before we move on...
1. Escape starts on an 8 turn cooldown. He is absolutely going to devour one of your people before you can escape them. Luckily, you will probably not witness this, because he hits harder, and will eat your face.
2. You will witness him devouring your characters. Yeah, I said you won't, but I lied. The rancor's cooldowns persist through attempts, so... if you lasted 4 turns on your first attempt, devour will now have 2 turns before it comes off of cooldown on your second attempt. He is going to eat one of your toons. NOM!

Ok, back to the fight...

TM reduction not working like it did in T6, combined with the reduction in boss HP, means that your best option for survival is straight eHP. No more cute tricks with TM reduction to delay the boss from acting, or to stack LOTS of dots with TS. This combination turned the fight into a tank and try to spank fight. Try to DPS because he will eat the face of your glass cannons.

The secret to T7 is coordination. Unless you're all whales, and have huge rosters, you're not going to be able to zerg this fight for a win. Make a plan, take it slow. Observe what happens. Don't let people rush to get attempts in, play together. If you've planned well, I believe that a T7 kill is accessible to most guilds. I'm not saying that every guild out there can defeat the T7 Rancor, but... it's not only for whales.

Again, revisiting my 3rd paragraph... T7 is a different fight. If you bring your T6 strats in, you're going to be sad (unless you're whales and have large rosters to fall back on). T6 and T7 are difficult and easy in different ways. I believe that T7 is more difficult for non-whales, as I believe it requires more coordination (communication), and I'm not sure in-game chat is sufficient (we use Slack for chat). The actual fight and mechanics... I'm not sure that T7 is more difficult, but it is different.

A couple tips:
1. The door resets between phase 2 and phase 3. This means that you can immediately drop the door at the start of both phases.
2. Don't die.
3. Phase 4 is hard, he is going to nom on your people.
4. Phase 1 isn't terrible. It is still possible, with the right team, to do 15% - 20% of the boss's health in a single attempt. Phase 1 is getting a lot of hate from people, but it is actually the easiest to rack up huge damage numbers in.
5. Q('.'O)
6. You don't get character refreshes, but you do get two days. Take it slow, talk strats out with your guild.
7. I HOPE LEADER ABILITIES GET FIXED!
8. This fight will get easier once #7 happens. Not having leader abilities to create awesome squad synergies for phases 2, 3, and 4 makes this difficult.
Post edited by Alita on

Replies

  • DarthScott
    292 posts Member
    Great post Alita! 100% agree. If you go with a 'zerg it with no communication' attack plan, my guess is guilds will need an average of 5 attempts per person. That means either 25 7* / decently geared toons a person, or a LOT of patience to retry over and over again and get enough successful escapes in that you can run 5 attempts a person. Oh yeah, and on phase 4, good luck getting to 8 turns in before escaping. He hits hard and fast.

    With really solid communication and patience, you might be able to get away with 10-15 solid characters per guild member.
  • Harmonica
    541 posts Member
    Great information Alita, it will definitely help those looking to take down Heroic by preparing them for something that isn't a natural progression from T6.
    Team iNstinct -- teaminstinct.net
  • Barrok
    1753 posts Member
    @Alita great work. Though I am surprised you didn't make this isn't a spreadsheet ;)
  • Yendor
    261 posts Member
    Welcome to the forums @Alita!
  • Barrok wrote: »
    @Alita great work. Though I am surprised you didn't make this isn't a spreadsheet ;)

    BBCode doesn't support spreadsheets >.<
  • Psychor
    35 posts Member
    Good info @Alita.
  • mccif16
    114 posts Member
    In summary, do as much damage as you can because the rancor will kill you.
  • Arijit
    507 posts Member
    Thanks for the info @Alita . Appreciate it. :smile:
  • MTan
    42 posts Member
    Good info, thank you for sharing.

    I have a couple question though if you don't mind answering, in P1 do the adds have reduced hp as well? If they retain their T6 hp P1 might be more difficult since tenacity is upped in T7 so cc'ing them would be much more difficult.

    P2 i often try to stick debuffa on Rancky to remove his 50% armor buff, with this improved tenacity, i'm guessing you bring Fisto along? Or do you just recommend straight out zerging? Phasma would be even more valuable for TM in this phase now.

    On the whole if he hits harder, could you be a little more specific? Like his aoe slam, will that one shot a gear VIII glass cannon? Or just stack high ehp toons in p3/4?
  • Barrok
    1753 posts Member
    I could be wrong @mtan since i haven't done the numbers, but it sure seems like the adds have more HP than t6... it's possible it's equal but i am pretty sure it's more.

    In p2, you zerg it. Heck P3 as well. You get the negative buff on them from the door coming down, so you don't really have to stick anything unless you want to.

    As far as hitting harder, he killed my gear 8 IG 88 full protection. He has killed higher HP than that though, so he is a beast.
  • @MTan
    Phase 1: the adds have more health than T6 adds, but do not seem to have higher tenacity, so CC still works on them. I had the best results with just burning them fast though.

    Phase 2: Phase 2 is tricky. The rancor hits quite hard now, and there are a few ways to deal with it. I'd recommend dropping the door immediately, with a high dps group, and just blasting him for as long as possible. if you get enough people in your guild to do this, you may be able to get by on door phases alone ^_^ (you're going to lose everyone though). I do not use Kit unless I have to, I think he still has rank 1 abilities.

    His slam will bring a G8 glass cannon to sub 50% health, if not outright kill them. It depends on who they are.
  • MTan
    42 posts Member
    Cheers guys appreciate the answers. May the force be with you.
  • Harmonica
    541 posts Member
    @MTan

    Phasma is great on Heroic as her slow actually stick, which you generally want going in to a door drop. Getting debuffs on the rancor is much easier when the door is dropped. In general, all of the toons that make T6 cool and interesting are mostly useless.

    Kit basically sucks right now, as his AOE should be at a higher percentage or 100%. Maybe then he would be useful, but it is still a weird skill for a Jedi to have.

    Heroic feels like Arena before protection was implemented.
    Team iNstinct -- teaminstinct.net
  • Arigatou!!!
  • Wow, great post. Thank you for the valuable information guys!
  • Valuable, vital information. Thank you very much, this is most appreciated by the community!
  • 5Strogino
    50 posts Member
    Alita, can you post screenshots with your best team's damage on T7?
  • Thanks for usefull info Alita!

    But i have one small question.
    Alita wrote: »
    4. Phase 1 isn't terrible. It is still possible, with the right team, to do 15% - 20% of the boss's health in a single attempt. Phase 1 is getting a lot of hate from people, but it is actually the easiest to rack up huge damage numbers in.

    What "right" team do you talking about? Can you share with some "right" builds for the first phase?
  • Thx for the info Alita, +1 ;)
  • thecuriousocelot
    1030 posts Member
    edited May 2016
    Nice write-up. Thnx! Shame about Teebo, I just got him kinda into shape too. 7*ing the chubby little furball today.

    Quick qn @alita ,,. By communication+coordination, do you mean attack phase 2 at the same time, for example, so that the rancor's health for that phase is completely depleted and it is therefore unable to attack much/at all? That way you'd get straight through to phase 3 where the door panel resets, so you can immediately use it again and continue your attack through 2 phases even using the same toons. ^_^
    Post edited by thecuriousocelot on
  • Telaan
    3454 posts Member
    edited May 2016
    5Strogino wrote: »
    Alita, can you post screenshots with your best team's damage on T7?

    These numbers depend on the phase. If you get a solid p1, it's entirely possible to stay in the top 3 damage without any other attempts. I understand that may necessarily have been your point, but it goes to show you how unbalanced it is, and how it could lead to guild members blowing their load in p1 to secure themselves a leaderboard position.

    For p2 and 3 most of your damage will come from topple. As soon as he gets back up expect your toons to die in the next move or two. In p4 he hits so hard and moves so fast that you're looking at 50k, and often much less, being very good damage in a single attempt.
  • Telaan, thanks for info.
    I try to understand these things: I have simple team without controllers and it hits with 160-180k damage by attempt in P1, P2, P3 (T6). Not in P4 sure)
    As Alita wrote that first three phases have ~10kk HP - is it able to do same damage on T7?
    180 * 50 players = 9kk
  • Telaan
    3454 posts Member
    5Strogino wrote: »
    Telaan, thanks for info.
    I try to understand these things: I have simple team without controllers and it hits with 160-180k damage by attempt in P1, P2, P3 (T6). Not in P4 sure)
    As Alita wrote that first three phases have ~10kk HP - is it able to do same damage on T7?
    180 * 50 players = 9kk

    If you're relying on a single team, or a core of a couple toons, to get you through more than one phase (except maybe p1), you're expecting too much. Consider, in general, each phase requiring a disposable team.
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    Thanks for sharing this information with the community.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • 5Strogino
    50 posts Member
    edited May 2016
    Telaan wrote: »
    5Strogino wrote: »
    Telaan, thanks for info.
    I try to understand these things: I have simple team without controllers and it hits with 160-180k damage by attempt in P1, P2, P3 (T6). Not in P4 sure)
    As Alita wrote that first three phases have ~10kk HP - is it able to do same damage on T7?
    180 * 50 players = 9kk

    If you're relying on a single team, or a core of a couple toons, to get you through more than one phase (except maybe p1), you're expecting too much. Consider, in general, each phase requiring a disposable team.
    Mmm. I'm expecting something like this: every player has not less than two teams (75+, 7*, T8). Main team must do main damage on P1-P3 phases. 10 players on P1, 20 players on P2, 20 players on P3.
    The key is deal 200k damage each in first phases.
    Then every player zerg phase 4 with second team.
    And the main question is: If simple DPS team can deal 200k damage on T6, can it deal same damage on T7?
    Note: Without debuffs, TM and TS. Pure damage.
  • Megadeth3700
    1017 posts Member

    Qeltar wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing this information with the community.

    +1
    ☮ Consular ☮
  • @zavazavazava
    there isn't one specific team. you can run teams like, rex, qgj, gs, leia, aa, or really anything. what you're aiming for is to burn the adds down as quick as possible so you can focus on the captain. keeping one of the pigs stunlocked doesn't seem to yield as good of results.

    characters that are good for phase 1:
    aa
    leia
    rex
    phasma
    qgj
    gs
    rg
    daka
    sf

    i realize a bunch of the above listed characters are premium, but you can sub things around. my first attempt on phase 1 yielded 17% damage, and was with teebo (L), 5's, rex, qgj, gs. i no longer recommend this team, because teebo was not very useful.
  • @thecuriousocelot
    generally, yes. being able to get all members of your guild onboard with whatever strat you've come up with. the difficulty is that the most efficient plans are do not result in an equal opportunity for all members to get damage on the leaderboard. a good phase 1 run will keep you at rank 1 for the duration of the raid, so people don't like to miss out on the easiest phase to score large numbers.

    once you see T7, and beat it a couple of times, you'll be able to relax strategy and come up with a more equal gameplan though. it's getting people to wait until exactly when they have to go, and stopping when they're done, that is hard.
  • @alita Interesting... I'm guessing you're probs all in favour of changing guild rewards then :)

    Overall then, was this your strat?

    Phase 1 - key units: dispellers. Attack together, pull out just before GC is about to die. Switch to phase 2 team, kill GC quickly (only one player needs to do this).

    Phase 2 + 3 - key units: dps (use low health+fast toons to save high health toons for phase 4?). Most coordination needed here. bring down phase 2 door panel and attack rancor until just before it gets to its turn (so rancor doesn't harm you whatsoever). Wait for guild mates to deal enough damage to initiate phase 3, thus resetting p the door panel and allowing you to conserve the same squad. Blast away...

    Phase 4 - no more coordination needed. Keep blasting away. Send out new squads, each player for himself. Attack toons with high health and perhaps one dispeller (Eg AA) helpful to end things...

    Am I close? :o
  • Alita
    474 posts
    edited May 2016
    @thecuriousocelot

    the squad that you use in phase 2 will die, same with phase 3. the door panel resets after phase 2, but you have to load a new encounter for that to happen. you'd want to have 25 people with glass cannon teams do a door phase. then the other 25 people do a door phase in phase 3. ideally, you can get through the phases on that alone.

    tanks generally get the furthest in phase 4, counter tanks specifically.
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