CG communication appears to go in waves, and right now we are in a "trough". It's now been half a month since guilds were released, and unless I missed it, nothing has been said formally about plans to fix some of the serious issues affecting guilds and raids, with the exception of an adjustment to the reward table almost two weeks ago.
The main issue was, is and will continue to be that the entire system is designed to tear guilds apart rather than bring them together. Specifically:
- The reward curve is too steep, with top 3 finishers getting much more than middle finishers who get much more than those on the bottom. This is the #1 issue, as it creates tension within the guild and promotes competition rather than cooperation.
- Determining rewards solely on the basis of DPS.
- Uneven phase difficulties where some are clearly easier than others, allowing some players to have a major advantage as we compete with each other for prizes.
- Lack of control over raid parameters other than tier and start time. In particular, not having refresh time 24 hours after raid start causes distortions and allows some players to get more fights than others.
I'm tired of trying to work around this system to create an even battlefield for my guild. I'm tired of having to choose between running up the score in the easy phases so I get better rewards, or not doing this and getting worse ones. I'm tired of having to watch the raid bar to see what phase we are in. I'm tired of having to choose between finishing the raid faster and finishing the raid fairly. I'm tired of endlessly trying different start times to find something that is fair for everyone because the system itself makes it impossible.
The T7 raid is also a major issue. End game content should not be finishable by any guild in under 1 hour forcing them to then have nothing to do for the following 47. Please address this ASAP, letting us know what you plan to do. If you make it harder that will make things more difficult for me and my guild, and will delay us getting Han Solo, and I am fine with that. I'd rather have something to work towards than be bored all the time.
The raid is the only actual real game content in this game, and should not become another grind. If this otherwise excellent content becomes a joke due to terrible balancing, I am going to have a hard time continuing to justify the time (and money) spent grinding everywhere else.
Thank you for listening.
+1000. I couldnt agree with you more. This needs to be revamped, whats taking so long Jesse,John?
Remember that ridiculous poll showing 96% not liking the current reward structure out of 1000 votes?
CG communication appears to go in waves, and right now we are in a "trough". It's now been half a month since guilds were released, and unless I missed it, nothing has been said formally about plans to fix some of the serious issues affecting guilds and raids, with the exception of an adjustment to the reward table almost two weeks ago.
The main issue was, is and will continue to be that the entire system is designed to tear guilds apart rather than bring them together. Specifically:
- The reward curve is too steep, with top 3 finishers getting much more than middle finishers who get much more than those on the bottom. This is the #1 issue, as it creates tension within the guild and promotes competition rather than cooperation.
- Determining rewards solely on the basis of DPS.
- Uneven phase difficulties where some are clearly easier than others, allowing some players to have a major advantage as we compete with each other for prizes.
- Lack of control over raid parameters other than tier and start time. In particular, not having refresh time 24 hours after raid start causes distortions and allows some players to get more fights than others.
I'm tired of trying to work around this system to create an even battlefield for my guild. I'm tired of having to choose between running up the score in the easy phases so I get better rewards, or not doing this and getting worse ones. I'm tired of having to watch the raid bar to see what phase we are in. I'm tired of having to choose between finishing the raid faster and finishing the raid fairly. I'm tired of endlessly trying different start times to find something that is fair for everyone because the system itself makes it impossible.
The T7 raid is also a major issue. End game content should not be finishable by any guild in under 1 hour forcing them to then have nothing to do for the following 47. Please address this ASAP, letting us know what you plan to do. If you make it harder that will make things more difficult for me and my guild, and will delay us getting Han Solo, and I am fine with that. I'd rather have something to work towards than be bored all the time.
The raid is the only actual real game content in this game, and should not become another grind. If this otherwise excellent content becomes a joke due to terrible balancing, I am going to have a hard time continuing to justify the time (and money) spent grinding everywhere else.
Thank you for listening.
+1000. I couldnt agree with you more. This needs to be revamped, whats taking so long Jesse,John?
Remember that ridiculous poll showing 96% not liking the current reward structure out of 1000 votes?
The only prob. with that poll was that a lot of people responding were angry at the fact the raids didn't guarantee unobtainable gear. They fixed that and a lot of the frustration seems to have dissipated. I have yet to see a poll on this forum that directly asks, for example, 'Do you think all guild members should receive equal raid rewards (or an equal chance of receiving raid rewards)?' I'm not sure that'd prove so popular - there are some who think competition is good and that those who do do more should get rewarded more, even despite the issues with the damage-based metric with phases and raid reset times as Qeltar mentioned.
For the record - I fully support raids rewarding guild members equally, including even those who did not participate.
The rewards definitely need changed. But your other points, not so much. Whenever characters reset, someone will get screwed.
And while I personally can't comment on the difficulty of tier 7, if they make it super hard for a group like team instinct, lesser guilds will have no chance at all.
I agree totally with Qeltar. The whole idea for a intra-guild competition instead of inter-guild is based on maximizing the benefits. Nothing wrong with that, but instead of making the game more fun, is more and more frustrating for the reasons have been developed here.
They have proven that their goal is far from making a good product for people to have fun attracting more costumers. It is prioritize the big spenders giving them a huge advantage so the money from them keep coming. Short term vs. long term vision.
Unfortunately, developers will only reconsider the strategy when experiencing a significant drop in the cash flow. Will that happen?
+1 and I don't think the change needs to be immediate, problem its we have no communication as to whether the devs agree with the problems or not. Understand coding takes time, but at least let us know what is on the horizon.
It's kind of sad that a clan has to limitate to 1 atack per player in tier 7, so everyone can participate, the heroic shouldn't end faster them VI tier. Together with this problem comes the great diference between damage output phase to phase (in my clan heroic phase fight, the poor **** that could only do the last part of rancor fight were in great disvantage).
Saying this, to me it´s not really the reward problem, but the way it works using damage output to ranking players in raid. See this talk about player who contribute with more damage needs more rewards is ****, how can u measure the rancor phases ppl fought? to me the ppl who face rancor at last mode are heroes and deserve more points for that.
Right now the system is like this: if u have the time to exploit rancor best phase for deal damage ur good (phase 2 and 3), if u can't, u'll probably not be on the leaderboard.
I don't think they should make tier seven more difficult by increasing the hp of the boss. I guess simply limit the number of attempts from infinite to 5 with no refreshes will make it hard enough.
The gap between the tiers v and vi is a bit of an issue, in my view. Tier vi takes in days whatever tier v takes you in hours.
It might seem that way, but most likely your guild isn't ready yet for tier 6.
I see a problem here also. For our guild, T5 is almost too easy (and that means you have to be awake at 1 a.m. or you get a bad rank) while T6 is so hard it takes us at least 4 days to finish. Yeah, we are not really ready for T6, but on the other hand there's no real challenge for us in T5. So the gap between T5 and T6 may be a bit too wide.
@Qeltar I completely agree to what you have written. @CG_JohnSalera please do something about it.
The current reward system is flawed. It does not encourage a good team-manship in guilds. It encourages players to snipe just after reset. The guy who did a lot of damage in the first Phase which needs lots or retreats, RNG help and strategy does not do reward him much. Instead, people wait on rancor and door down. There should be a better reward system to all those who fought and helped in the raid.
Agree with OP on all points that need to be addressed. But while 2 weeks seems like a long time to not hear a response, in my experience with mobile gaming, its not unusual. If something is clearly gamebreakingly broken in a way that benefits the players and hurts the developers bottom line (ie accidentally free or easily obtained stuff for everyone) or in a way that messes with the real money that people spend in the game (ie not receiving something they paid for or devaluing something people paid for to a ridiculous degree), they get a patch ouot ASAP. But in most other situations, developers tend to have a wait and see attitude. "Lets wait and see if everyone is still ticked about this in a few weeks." "Lets wait and see if the data shows it's really as bad as the players are saying it is." "Lets wait and see how it changes the meta". And most importantly "Lets wait and see if people spend less or more money because of this issue." Then once they have enough information they try to put together and throw in a fix, which hopefully will actually fix things without creating more issues. Nothing against this development team personally but I've played a lot of mobile games and been an active member of a lot of forums and this is always the way it goes.
I'm sure the changes will come, but it will be a little while longer.
How many Tier V raids to get 50 binoculars?
How many T7 raids to max out Han?
They slowed us down so they can develop and stop people from getting bored and having everything.
Even the biggest whales took down Tier 7 in 2 weeks, imagine if they put the Mk 5 Droid caller in shipments...
150k crystals later (all those refreshes!), P2W would have all characters in Gear 11 and 10 in their inventory to equip to gear 12 in a week by spending thousands of dollars.
+1 Qeltar. However, we've both been in the forums long enough to know that if fixing something won't improve their profits, then they don't care. The raids were designed the way they are to invoke people to spend money. It's the biggest cash grab in the game and its working. Why do you think we can't farm certain gear. They aren't going to lower their profits to make us happy. The only way to make them do what the playerbase wants is FOR EVERYONE TO STOP SPENDING MONEY.
Why not make the option to choose a "competitive" or "cooperative" raid when starting a raid? That way if you want a competition you can still do it, but if you want to distribute the rewards better you can do that as well.
Why not make the option to choose a "competitive" or "cooperative" raid when starting a raid? That way if you want a competition you can still do it, but if you want to distribute the rewards better you can do that as well.
I'd love that. See how long guilds that choose 'competitive' last
All of my toons are locked behind these and I can't progress or be competitive in arena anymore. Meanwhile those that precrafted are at gear 10/11 and they just sit there at the top of arena blocking any chance of me making it to #1 for rewards. Don't get me wrong they are my shard mates and I hold nothing against them, but it is killing arena for me. Arena was where I could shine with a good team but now it's hopeless. One of our biggest whales with a 7* Grievous has quit and has fallen into the 100's already. More will leave and I will follow soon. The competitive edge was gained not by how much money you have, but by seeing the post to go ahead and precraft. I missed it so I got punished and I consider myself a whale.
Was really looking forward to these raids and thought they would be the solution to the gear issue.
I started out trying hard to get a top score so I might get better rewards. Top 10 in 6 of those raids. Now I'm getting to the point I don't care anymore because I'm too far behind the rest of my guild/shard. I still do my part for raid activities but the raid feels like a chore already and I started just doing my last battles on auto. Those at the top are just getting stronger doing more damage with each raid, while the rest of us fall behind. There is nothing motivating about this at all. Putting us in competition with each other will destroy guilds, and I know this because I'm a few more bad raid rewards away from quitting.
I am very lucky to be in a great guild. If it wasn't for our amazing guild leader and the others in the guild I would have quit already. The only reason I'm sticking around is in the hopes that they fix this because i love being in a guild, and i love the game. However, my level of frustration is getting so high that I don't know how much more of this I can take. I mean seriously. You spend thousands on a game and they can't even give you decent rewards after supporting them like that.
The devs say they play the game but I'm really starting to doubt that. If they do, they are not top tier in arena unless they precrafted. I wonder if they even play the raids because if they did they might understand how disappointing these raid rewards are.
CG. You broke the game by allowing precrafting. Now fix it with the raid rewards like you said you would. Take out the competition in the guilds it's not wanted, or fun. Change the reset time it's terrible.
Qeltar sorry for going into the precrafting thing again I know that's not the main point of your post. But these raids were supposed to fix this. With the current rewards I feel like it's directly related because it's making the situation worse.
CG communication appears to go in waves, and right now we are in a "trough". It's now been half a month since guilds were released, and unless I missed it, nothing has been said formally about plans to fix some of the serious issues affecting guilds and raids, with the exception of an adjustment to the reward table almost two weeks ago.
The main issue was, is and will continue to be that the entire system is designed to tear guilds apart rather than bring them together. Specifically:
- The reward curve is too steep, with top 3 finishers getting much more than middle finishers who get much more than those on the bottom. This is the #1 issue, as it creates tension within the guild and promotes competition rather than cooperation.
- Determining rewards solely on the basis of DPS.
- Uneven phase difficulties where some are clearly easier than others, allowing some players to have a major advantage as we compete with each other for prizes.
- Lack of control over raid parameters other than tier and start time. In particular, not having refresh time 24 hours after raid start causes distortions and allows some players to get more fights than others.
I'm tired of trying to work around this system to create an even battlefield for my guild. I'm tired of having to choose between running up the score in the easy phases so I get better rewards, or not doing this and getting worse ones. I'm tired of having to watch the raid bar to see what phase we are in. I'm tired of having to choose between finishing the raid faster and finishing the raid fairly. I'm tired of endlessly trying different start times to find something that is fair for everyone because the system itself makes it impossible.
The T7 raid is also a major issue. End game content should not be finishable by any guild in under 1 hour forcing them to then have nothing to do for the following 47. Please address this ASAP, letting us know what you plan to do. If you make it harder that will make things more difficult for me and my guild, and will delay us getting Han Solo, and I am fine with that. I'd rather have something to work towards than be bored all the time.
The raid is the only actual real game content in this game, and should not become another grind. If this otherwise excellent content becomes a joke due to terrible balancing, I am going to have a hard time continuing to justify the time (and money) spent grinding everywhere else.
I find the reward system flawed big time as well. Those who can't rack up the damage are destined to progress slower, when the guild should helping them grow more quickly to strengthen the team. This system really hurts the progression.
I'm in the same boat as you on holding back. I want5 others to share the wealth and I can rack up the damage, so I try to sit out a bit to let others get up there.
One thing I've done in mine is we just raid non stop(except the hour tally) We keep a Tier 6 going always allowing everyone a chance to hit all stages.
@GenKillYou, the precrafting issue actually fits in perfectly with the guild problem. Because of the need for damage to earn higher prize tiers from raids, guilds are also somewhat split due to precrafted vs not.
The state of guild raids is nauseatingly sad. I approve wholeheartedly that seeing contributions is nice, but competing against people, staying up until 1 am just to launch attacks, it's counter to everything a guild could be.
If CG wants to keep guilds the way they are, may I suggest a name change to "Competition Group" or "Passive Aggressive Raid Buddies" or "Why are we friends again?"
First off, let me say I love my guild. HOWEVER, with that being said, +1 to @Qeltar on this baloney. Every single one of us puts in our daily contribution. A lot of us put in more than we're comfortable to bring the guild to a higher tier of rewards. We have to cap GW day at 24 so we are all treated equally, then when the raid starts the reward system is based on who does the most damage, not who puts in the most work with what they have even though everyone initially contributes the same. The rich get richer, the poor stay stuck in the mud. It is absolute TRASH the way the rewards system works. Isn't the whole point of a guild to work together? Why am I going to bust my hump to help the higher levels when I see bare minimum benefit from it? Because I do it for the greater good of the guild, but there HAS to be a break even point for this. For T6, I have approximately 6 or 7 toons that can participate period, so I get shafted on rewards.
The T7 raid is also a major issue. End game content should not be finishable by any guild in under 1 hour forcing them to then have nothing to do for the following 47. Please address this ASAP, letting us know what you plan to do.
I agree with most of it but this.
Very strongly disagree here. Please keep it easy and quick.
This is a mobile game, not WoW MMO.
Nothing to do for the following 47? I have plenty to do, as I'm sure most of us do - I want to finish the raids as quickly as possible. We have to work, sleep, eat, tend to families and loved ones and friends, watch Game of Thrones, go to the movies, play with our cats, believe me... every minute I can spend doing RL stuff because I don't have to be tied forcefully to a game due to overlong content is a-ok with me
As a raid leader myself, I completely understand your frustration. We just finished the Herioc raid but luckily we were able to implement a 1 attack system for the first 8 hrs or so so everyone got 1 attack in.
However, the time I set of open attacks (paficic timezone here) was when all the Europeans were all asleep (like 4 or 5 am their time). Needless to say, some of them were not happy. To get around this I might start staggering start times to Americas and Europe or just allow these members to use 2 attacks instead of one.
Regardless, the current system is bogus and needs to be revisted.
The T7 raid is also a major issue. End game content should not be finishable by any guild in under 1 hour forcing them to then have nothing to do for the following 47. Please address this ASAP, letting us know what you plan to do.
I agree with most of it but this.
Very strongly disagree here. Please keep it easy and quick.
This is a mobile game, not WoW MMO.
Nothing to do for the following 47? I have plenty to do, as I'm sure most of us do - I want to finish the raids as quickly as possible. We have to work, sleep, eat, tend to families and loved ones and friends, watch Game of Thrones, go to the movies, play with our cats, believe me... every minute I can spend doing RL stuff because I don't have to be tied forcefully to a game due to overlong content is a-ok with me
The T7 raid is also a major issue. End game content should not be finishable by any guild in under 1 hour forcing them to then have nothing to do for the following 47. Please address this ASAP, letting us know what you plan to do.
I agree with most of it but this.
Very strongly disagree here. Please keep it easy and quick.
This is a mobile game, not WoW MMO.
Nothing to do for the following 47? I have plenty to do, as I'm sure most of us do - I want to finish the raids as quickly as possible. We have to work, sleep, eat, tend to families and loved ones and friends, watch Game of Thrones, go to the movies, play with our cats, believe me... every minute I can spend doing RL stuff because I don't have to be tied forcefully to a game due to overlong content is a-ok with me
Replies
+1000. I couldnt agree with you more. This needs to be revamped, whats taking so long Jesse,John?
Remember that ridiculous poll showing 96% not liking the current reward structure out of 1000 votes?
Omg, thanks! And please, don't...
Let's see: lvl cap (bypassed), 50 gear pieces (bypassed), exponentially increasing refreshes (bypassed), great characters in chromium lottery (bypassed)
Realistically speaking, it's quite difficult to design a perfect end game when u have so many hardcore whales.
Other than that, I agree on all other points. The tiered gear rewards is not necessary.
The only prob. with that poll was that a lot of people responding were angry at the fact the raids didn't guarantee unobtainable gear. They fixed that and a lot of the frustration seems to have dissipated. I have yet to see a poll on this forum that directly asks, for example, 'Do you think all guild members should receive equal raid rewards (or an equal chance of receiving raid rewards)?' I'm not sure that'd prove so popular - there are some who think competition is good and that those who do do more should get rewarded more, even despite the issues with the damage-based metric with phases and raid reset times as Qeltar mentioned.
For the record - I fully support raids rewarding guild members equally, including even those who did not participate.
And while I personally can't comment on the difficulty of tier 7, if they make it super hard for a group like team instinct, lesser guilds will have no chance at all.
They have proven that their goal is far from making a good product for people to have fun attracting more costumers. It is prioritize the big spenders giving them a huge advantage so the money from them keep coming. Short term vs. long term vision.
Unfortunately, developers will only reconsider the strategy when experiencing a significant drop in the cash flow. Will that happen?
Saying this, to me it´s not really the reward problem, but the way it works using damage output to ranking players in raid. See this talk about player who contribute with more damage needs more rewards is ****, how can u measure the rancor phases ppl fought? to me the ppl who face rancor at last mode are heroes and deserve more points for that.
Right now the system is like this: if u have the time to exploit rancor best phase for deal damage ur good (phase 2 and 3), if u can't, u'll probably not be on the leaderboard.
Sorry for the english errors.
I see a problem here also. For our guild, T5 is almost too easy (and that means you have to be awake at 1 a.m. or you get a bad rank) while T6 is so hard it takes us at least 4 days to finish. Yeah, we are not really ready for T6, but on the other hand there's no real challenge for us in T5. So the gap between T5 and T6 may be a bit too wide.
The current reward system is flawed. It does not encourage a good team-manship in guilds. It encourages players to snipe just after reset. The guy who did a lot of damage in the first Phase which needs lots or retreats, RNG help and strategy does not do reward him much. Instead, people wait on rancor and door down. There should be a better reward system to all those who fought and helped in the raid.
I'm sure the changes will come, but it will be a little while longer.
How many T7 raids to max out Han?
They slowed us down so they can develop and stop people from getting bored and having everything.
Even the biggest whales took down Tier 7 in 2 weeks, imagine if they put the Mk 5 Droid caller in shipments...
150k crystals later (all those refreshes!), P2W would have all characters in Gear 11 and 10 in their inventory to equip to gear 12 in a week by spending thousands of dollars.
Dare I say it, but whales ruined pay to win
I'd love that. See how long guilds that choose 'competitive' last
8 Tier 6 raids completed. Furnaces 0, Droid Callers 0.
All of my toons are locked behind these and I can't progress or be competitive in arena anymore. Meanwhile those that precrafted are at gear 10/11 and they just sit there at the top of arena blocking any chance of me making it to #1 for rewards. Don't get me wrong they are my shard mates and I hold nothing against them, but it is killing arena for me. Arena was where I could shine with a good team but now it's hopeless. One of our biggest whales with a 7* Grievous has quit and has fallen into the 100's already. More will leave and I will follow soon. The competitive edge was gained not by how much money you have, but by seeing the post to go ahead and precraft. I missed it so I got punished and I consider myself a whale.
Was really looking forward to these raids and thought they would be the solution to the gear issue.
I started out trying hard to get a top score so I might get better rewards. Top 10 in 6 of those raids. Now I'm getting to the point I don't care anymore because I'm too far behind the rest of my guild/shard. I still do my part for raid activities but the raid feels like a chore already and I started just doing my last battles on auto. Those at the top are just getting stronger doing more damage with each raid, while the rest of us fall behind. There is nothing motivating about this at all. Putting us in competition with each other will destroy guilds, and I know this because I'm a few more bad raid rewards away from quitting.
I am very lucky to be in a great guild. If it wasn't for our amazing guild leader and the others in the guild I would have quit already. The only reason I'm sticking around is in the hopes that they fix this because i love being in a guild, and i love the game. However, my level of frustration is getting so high that I don't know how much more of this I can take. I mean seriously. You spend thousands on a game and they can't even give you decent rewards after supporting them like that.
The devs say they play the game but I'm really starting to doubt that. If they do, they are not top tier in arena unless they precrafted. I wonder if they even play the raids because if they did they might understand how disappointing these raid rewards are.
CG. You broke the game by allowing precrafting. Now fix it with the raid rewards like you said you would. Take out the competition in the guilds it's not wanted, or fun. Change the reset time it's terrible.
Qeltar sorry for going into the precrafting thing again I know that's not the main point of your post. But these raids were supposed to fix this. With the current rewards I feel like it's directly related because it's making the situation worse.
Well thought out post as per the norm @Qeltar
I find the reward system flawed big time as well. Those who can't rack up the damage are destined to progress slower, when the guild should helping them grow more quickly to strengthen the team. This system really hurts the progression.
I'm in the same boat as you on holding back. I want5 others to share the wealth and I can rack up the damage, so I try to sit out a bit to let others get up there.
One thing I've done in mine is we just raid non stop(except the hour tally) We keep a Tier 6 going always allowing everyone a chance to hit all stages.
We need this system fixed big time for sure.
The state of guild raids is nauseatingly sad. I approve wholeheartedly that seeing contributions is nice, but competing against people, staying up until 1 am just to launch attacks, it's counter to everything a guild could be.
If CG wants to keep guilds the way they are, may I suggest a name change to "Competition Group" or "Passive Aggressive Raid Buddies" or "Why are we friends again?"
I agree with most of it but this.
Very strongly disagree here. Please keep it easy and quick.
This is a mobile game, not WoW MMO.
Nothing to do for the following 47? I have plenty to do, as I'm sure most of us do - I want to finish the raids as quickly as possible. We have to work, sleep, eat, tend to families and loved ones and friends, watch Game of Thrones, go to the movies, play with our cats, believe me... every minute I can spend doing RL stuff because I don't have to be tied forcefully to a game due to overlong content is a-ok with me
As a raid leader myself, I completely understand your frustration. We just finished the Herioc raid but luckily we were able to implement a 1 attack system for the first 8 hrs or so so everyone got 1 attack in.
However, the time I set of open attacks (paficic timezone here) was when all the Europeans were all asleep (like 4 or 5 am their time). Needless to say, some of them were not happy. To get around this I might start staggering start times to Americas and Europe or just allow these members to use 2 attacks instead of one.
Regardless, the current system is bogus and needs to be revisted.
I hear ya.
This is a more than fair point imo!