Stealth needs reworked

I have 41 characters. I love the "potential" of this game. One of its flaws is certainly the stealth mechanic, and how it's simply not viable compared to other comps.

On a single character like Leia yes, stealth keeps her alive longer, but as a team comp I don't buy it. Especially with tanks. A stealth tank is useless.

AOE and counter comps shread stealth. Tank and Heal comps don't counter stealth, but stealth does not counter them either. I see, as of now, no place for a stealth comp in the game, other then the novelty of it.

Some of you will reply, "I have Teebo and my team is sweet". If you are truly in the TOP 20 on your server, then post a screen shot. Also, provide guidance as to how you managed to do that!

Easy fixes to make stealth viable: (any or some of these would help)

Whenever a stealthed character is counter attacked:
20% damage decrease
10 % evade chance

Whenever a character enters stealth:
They gain evade up/ defense up / speed up
They gain 10% evasion
30% turn meter gain

What do you guys think? Also, I would love to hear from staff on this issue.




Replies

  • At large, I agree. I do not think that stealthed characters should even be able to be counter attacked, but should definitely still be able to get hit by AoE. I think they should get 100% evade (except from AoE - maybe a +40% evade vs AoE), but I do not think they should get defense up, speed up, or any turn meter bonus.

    If all of your characters are in stealth then the opposing team either has to use an AoE ability or pass their turn. I don't think that is ridiculous since any all stealth team is going to be garbage and missing one turn because your opponent miraculously got into a 5-man stealth isn't going to hurt your chances very often.
  • Yeah because the last thing Leia needs is another power boost. Lol.
  • I've played with Teebo as the leader and it's a viable strategy, but it clearly has flaws.

    The Pro is that with a 50% chance to stealth it can hamper the opponents chance to burst damage on a given character.

    The Cons are that sometimes the character with all of the health goes stealth and increases the chance that a character at low heath gets targeted, and that the AI doesn't adjust for when playing a character that has stealth. Therefore, a low health stealth Jedi character may attack Dooku and get stunned or killed.

    As for guidance or strategy -

    Teebo's leadership skill also provides each character a 25% chance at end of turn to gain 25% turn meter, and this is as important a part of the strategy as stealth for Teebo and company.

    Used in conjunction with the Elder Ewok you get a healer that can revive and that has a base attack that can increase Ewok Elder's turn meter (so healing can occur more often) and grants half that bonus to other Ewoks. When Ewok Elder grants turn meter to Teebo he can use his active stealth skill which grants all Ewok allies a significant turn meter bonus (70% at level 3).

    If you add in the Ewok Scout then you start to strip turn meter. His basic attack at level 3 has a 25% chance to remove 50% turn meter. Ewok Scout also gains turn meter when he evades, with a small Evasion bonus of X% * number of living Ewoks. Ewok Scout's turn meter stripping ability is complimented by Teebo's base attack w/ stealth combo. Teebo's base attack at level 3 will remove 75% turn meter if he has stealth, which is very handy when Teebo probaby won't finish someone off but you can stop the opponent's healer from having a turn.

    Ewok Elder has two revives. One is active and one is a passive chance to do so when using Ewok Elder's healing ability. The healing ability also removes one negative status effect on each character (even though the ability's description says "all negative status effects"). Handy when facing Sids and Kylos.

    To further complicate things for the opponent use a character like Stormtrooper Han. He provides more turn meter manipulation, and when you see one of your characters with low health that doesn't have stealth you can activate his taunt.

    With the last slot you can:
    • use a Phasma to slow the opponent and gain additional turn meter.
    • bring a second healer.
    • bring Daka for additional chances to revive. In conjunction with the chance to stealth (or maybe the character still has it if they were killed by an AoE) there's a much better chance to heal them as well.
    • use Fives to help deal AoE attacks. He has a high chance to counter and his base attack inflicts Speed down.
    • use Hoth Rebel Scout and his base attack's chance to gain turn meter for all allies.
    • use Chewbacca for his taunt, self heal, and his base attack has a chance to steal turn meter.

    This team may not have appear to have the type of burst damage that can take down other teams, but when the team gets extra turns while the opponent's team loses turns it's effectively burst damage.

    I've been in first using Ewok/stealth/turn meter manipulation synergies, and on more than one occasion I've tried to initiate a match and been denied because I'm already engaged in combat without losing the #1 rank. It's not what I run at the moment, but I'm putting points into Ewoks so I can experiment with it more later.

    There are a few changes that I would like to see that would help:
    • Fix Ewok Elder so that he actually removes all negative status effects.
    • Modify the AI so that stealth characters avoid attacking characters that counterattack unless there's an acceptable chance to finish them off or gain some other benefit such as stunning the opponent.
    • Allow the use of taunt to prevent/negate/remove stealth.
    • Provide defensive bonuses to characters with stealth. If only stealth characters remain they can be targeted as though none had stealth. They still have stealth, and it should provide a bonus. In addition, if there are multiple character which all have stealth then targeting should be disabled and randomized.

    I hope that helps and good luck.
  • Plotts
    21 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Austin wrote: »
    Yeah because the last thing Leia needs is another power boost. Lol.

    Well, she is bugged which has a lot to do with her beastliness. She will get nerfed, and what happens to characters who get nerfed? ... ... ...Exactly.

    I am talking about team synergies and compositions. AOE vs single target burst vs heals vs control vs stall vs counter

    Stealth is in no way viable against any of those, other than the fact it barely counters single target burst comps. Tank/Heals/Counter is better. Much better.
  • Plotts wrote: »
    Austin wrote: »
    Yeah because the last thing Leia needs is another power boost. Lol.

    Well, she is bugged which has a lot to do with her beastliness. She will get nerfed, and what happens to characters who get nerfed? ... ... ...Exactly.

    I am talking about team synergies and compositions. AOE vs single target burst vs heals vs control vs stall vs counter

    Stealth is in no way viable against any of those, other than the fact it barely counters single target burst comps. Tank/Heals/Counter is better. Much better.

    I think that it's best to look at Teebo's leadership ability is a two part control synergy ability, with its chance to provide turn meter being the first and the stealth aspect controlling or limiting the opponent's targets being the second. Add taunts or additional turn meter manipulation for more control.
  • I agree with all that's been said with Reebok and add my gripe when everyone is stealthed no one is stealthed. Everyone can get attacked.
  • How about this
    A team led by teebo (50% chance to grant stealth at the beginning of a character turn)
    Fives
    Boba
    Bariss
    Finn

    So this is purely a defense team that you leave over night to hold your rank in arena. All characters are tanks so they can take a lot of damage, Finn and boba have high damage and good abilities, you can't target down one enemy bc there is a good chance they will stealth and you will be forced to focus on someone else, bariss then heals all+ she has a lot of health herself. This cycles repeats and eventually they wear you down or the timer runs out. Stealth can work
  • These types of scenarios is exactly why some sort of testing area would be great - to see if a strategy is actually viable or if it just sounds like a good idea. I think that @Bochista hit it on the head as far as possible uses for an ewok team, which would utilize stealth. Would be curious to see how it would stack up against a team that is either based on high-damage or AOE.
  • bleeaauuh wrote: »
    How about this
    A team led by teebo (50% chance to grant stealth at the beginning of a character turn)
    Fives
    Boba
    Bariss
    Finn

    So this is purely a defense team that you leave over night to hold your rank in arena. All characters are tanks so they can take a lot of damage, Finn and boba have high damage and good abilities, you can't target down one enemy bc there is a good chance they will stealth and you will be forced to focus on someone else, bariss then heals all+ she has a lot of health herself. This cycles repeats and eventually they wear you down or the timer runs out. Stealth can work

    For overnight defense I would use Old Daka & Ewok Elder as healers since they both have two chances to heal. Old Daka will slow them down with her potential to double stun, while Ewok Elder provides meter gain to itself and Teebo, so he can meter gain/steal more.

    Boba Fett provides more opportunities for revives, and they have a chance to stealth so it's not always a one shot kill upon revive. Han's taunt can be a pain to deal with too, especially since it feeds the turn meter of Ewoks.

    Try running the group through the Light/Dark levels to get a feel for them. If you have the confidence in your other team(s) then try them in GW. I think that it's a great place to test.
  • akositzke wrote: »
    These types of scenarios is exactly why some sort of testing area would be great - to see if a strategy is actually viable or if it just sounds like a good idea. I think that @Bochista hit it on the head as far as possible uses for an ewok team, which would utilize stealth. Would be curious to see how it would stack up against a team that is either based on high-damage or AOE.

    If the meta on the shard leans towards AoE then Fives is great for slowing them down, or Boba Fett. Fives has a great chance to counter and inflicts slow for two turns. High-damage teams tend to avoid him, and if the meta leaned that way I'd run stun & then ability block heavy while trying to maintain the primary synergy.
  • Bochista wrote: »

    The Cons are that sometimes the character with all of the health goes stealth and increases the chance that a character at low heath gets targeted, and that the AI doesn't adjust for when playing a character that has stealth. Therefore, a low health stealth Jedi character may attack Dooku and get stunned or killed.


    There are a few changes that I would like to see that would help:
    • Fix Ewok Elder so that he actually removes all negative status effects.
    • Modify the AI so that stealth characters avoid attacking characters that counterattack unless there's an acceptable chance to finish them off or gain some other benefit such as stunning the opponent.
    • Allow the use of taunt to prevent/negate/remove stealth.
    • Provide defensive bonuses to characters with stealth. If only stealth characters remain they can be targeted as though none had stealth. They still have stealth, and it should provide a bonus. In addition, if there are multiple character which all have stealth then targeting should be disabled and randomized.

    I hope that helps and good luck.

    Thanks a ton! DO you think Ackbar is viable with his debuff heals

    That is my point, when on auto it's just too broken. That's why people just run burst AoE comps, because the auto AI needs a lot of work.

    Mods: Wish list:

    -stealth targeting AI
    -Ewok Elder properly removes all debuffs.
    -Some buff when in stealth


  • Ackbar on defense is a matter of the current meta. Would his speed place his turn after an opponent has debuffed? That's what I would think about to limit the chance of the AI wasting a skill/turn.
  • Lazerrift
    27 posts Member
    edited February 2016
    Brando usually gets to around 3 with a teebo led team.

    Hmm strange the img wont be embedded well http://imgur.com/Zg53twH
  • Lazerrift wrote: »
    Brando usually gets to around 3

    The horror....the horror.....;)
    Ally Code: 945-699-762
  • Good thread
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