How to handle tier 7 raids...

OK guys, my guild has progressed from tier 6 to tier 7 raids. We can crush the tier 7 raids in a couple hours (about the same amount of time we do tier 5 raids.) We have it down to where we have 2 people alone that defeat phase 1 alone. Then we allow each member to attack once in phase 2 and once in phase 3. Then anyone who missed phases 2 and 3 we allow to do phase 4.

This has become a problem. We are a guild with 50 members. Every member is at level 80, so we have some pretty significant rosters. This gets us through the entire raid in only a couple hours, however we still have a significant amount that never even get to raid.

How do other guilds handle this? We have a voluntary Line chat app, but the leader refuses to make this a requirement. I understand his thinking, we don't know the ages of everyone, and neither of us would want our children to be on a chat app with a bunch of adults, so this is NOT a possibility.

We must get this figured out, or we will start losing members. I apologize for posting this here and not the guild section, but that section seems strictly a recruiting page. I am not recruiting. I am asking the assistance of other currently established guilds. Thanks.

Replies

  • We could crush a heroic in minutes but this is what we do and it works pretty well:

    We schedule the raid for say 10pm. Everyone gets one attack for the first wave. They are free to attack any phase they wish.

    The second wave would start 12 hours later. Say 10am the following day. By then, most in our guild has had the chance to attack, and the rancor is usually somewhere in Phase 4. Everyone is allowed to take their second attack and it's usually dead within minutes.


    Everyone in our guild seems to agree this is a fair system and doesn't require much coordination or scheduling and everyone has a pretty big window to get an attack in.
  • sying
    982 posts Member
    Another problem I think would happen is that it's not easy to score all that great in p4. Nobody in our guild gets anywhere close to the top ten if they wind up in p4. That's not exactly fair either.

    What my guild does is we start a raid, say at certain times. Let's say, 7 pm PST. Everyone gets one turn and one turn only for the first 12 hours. 12 hours is plenty of time for everyone to get in one good shot but if they miss it then they miss it. Then, at 7 am the next day we start full zerg mode. Anybody awake gets to go in with all that they have left or until the rancor dies, whichever comes first.

    The advantage to this is we ensure everyone or mostly everyone gets a shot and everyone gets some good rewards. We have at least one guy that can solo p1 given good RNG. We can easily do it with two players. However, for some people, it's easier to score higher in p1 than in other phases so we are allowed to do whichever phase makes us happy.

    The disadvantage to this is it takes 12 hours and 1 minute. We don't mind but others might. We don't necessarily care about being at the top of any leader board because there's no reward. We care when we need to recruit but that's about it. If you don't mind waiting 12 hours after the raid starts to receive your rewards then this might not be a bad plan for you.
  • The space slugs are in the exact same situation. We allow everyone to use one team before phase 4. When we hit phase 4 everyone pauses until all slugs have gone. If after 24 hours we still have slugs that haven't gone (2 this raid) we just go ahead and blast Oprah and collect rewards. If you can't take 3 minutes to swing at Oprah in a 24 hour time frame maybe raids aren't for you.
  • fudgra
    982 posts Member
    Like others have said we do one attack only starting at a specific time, then at the chosen end time everyone uses whatever battles they can get in.

    One attack in phase 2 and one in phase 3 is taking away too much damage too fast since everyone get two doors.
  • Bilbo
    2 posts Member
    The 1 attack is awful , it is then up to the individual not go cheat a second go, easy solution is to have a 24 hour cool down when you start the raid , if people want to send 1 toon to attack a pig only to get on the board as a zero damage they can if they done think they can make the raid after the 24hrs is up the raid is a go works perfectly and everyone gets rewards .
  • My guild has a specific timing to it. Every raids p1 is scheduled at the same daily time. My guild has a roster of about 10 p1 fighters, who are rotated each raid. Four to six hours before p1 is scheduled to start, we start the actual raid, and allow people who expect to miss the raid times to take in a toon, and do 0 damage. This allows such a person to register on the raid so they at least get something from rewards. Then when p1 is scheduled to begin, we allow the previously chosen p1 raiders to do their attacks. They must be able to do a certain amount of p1 damage to be allowed to do p1. 2 hours later, We start p2-3. During p2-3, members can only do 1 attack on rancor. If a member misses p2-3, they are allowed to do 2 attacks in p4. 6 hours after the beginning of p2-3, we open up the raid to everyone for a free for all. The ffa usually lasts a min-2 mins
  • OK guys, my guild has progressed from tier 6 to tier 7 raids. We can crush the tier 7 raids in a couple hours (about the same amount of time we do tier 5 raids.) We have it down to where we have 2 people alone that defeat phase 1 alone. Then we allow each member to attack once in phase 2 and once in phase 3. Then anyone who missed phases 2 and 3 we allow to do phase 4.

    This has become a problem. We are a guild with 50 members. Every member is at level 80, so we have some pretty significant rosters. This gets us through the entire raid in only a couple hours, however we still have a significant amount that never even get to raid.

    How do other guilds handle this? We have a voluntary Line chat app, but the leader refuses to make this a requirement. I understand his thinking, we don't know the ages of everyone, and neither of us would want our children to be on a chat app with a bunch of adults, so this is NOT a possibility.

    We must get this figured out, or we will start losing members. I apologize for posting this here and not the guild section, but that section seems strictly a recruiting page. I am not recruiting. I am asking the assistance of other currently established guilds. Thanks.
    First of all you need to set a raid start time that suits ALL members, and then a Zerg time 2 hours later. You will raid every other day because of 30,000 guild coins being put in (you don't want slackers) and this means everyone knows when raids wil happen. Then you open the raid; announcing that it is open in discord (for us) or line (for you) in the separate raid announcement channel. Then, everyone had a two battle limit for the first 2 hours of the raid. Most of our guys do phase 1 because we are all players who have played for at least 6 months (mostly F2P) so we have very deep rosters. We probably overkill phase 1 by about 10,000,000 damage. if anyone does 3 or more attacks, they get a full 1 raid ban, and if caught again, you must remove them from the guild. When Zerg time hits, you should have most members in, and be about half way through phase 4. Everyone just throws all they have left at the rancor and we normally only get one attack each before it dies.
  • Sunnie1978
    2937 posts Moderator
    We also use the one battle for so many hours until free for all is called method. Even then, we have multiple people who can solo the pigs, so we use over-damage by our strongest members on P1 to give more raid to the rest of the members.

    If you don't know how over-damage works: When raid is opened, everyone who wants to hit P1 goes in at the same time when the rancor is at 100%. Then they wait a bit before finishing their battle, usually 20 minutes, to give everyone who wants to do P1 a chance to start their battle. Then, multiple people kill the pigs. Since damage from P1 doesn't carry over to P2, we can have multiple people earn 1 million damage points for pig killing, and leave the damage they would have done in P2 or P3 for the rest of the guild members.
  • sying
    982 posts Member
    Bilbo wrote: »
    The 1 attack is awful , it is then up to the individual not go cheat a second go, easy solution is to have a 24 hour cool down when you start the raid , if people want to send 1 toon to attack a pig only to get on the board as a zero damage they can if they done think they can make the raid after the 24hrs is up the raid is a go works perfectly and everyone gets rewards .

    That's why we submit screenshots and boot people who cheat. Even if we didn't have screenshots, our officers routinely check to see that nobody's damage has improved before zerg. We even have punishments for people who go in before zerg is supposed to start, get their damage, and wait until zerg start time to actually lose their last toon. That way they register damage right away and can get in right away. Our officers monitor all this heavily.
  • Don't just have 2 people attacking in p1. We have a guy who can solo p1 bur have at least 10 attack it. P1 is over in 2 or 3 attacks. Other 6 or 7 people still get there damage but it doesn't carry over to p2. So it gives everyone else a attack b4 raid ends. Your way of only 2 attacking p1 basically cuts out 10 people
  • Homish
    65 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    We pause for a long period of time after phase 3. Everyone who has not attacked gets to send one squad at phase 4.
    Then at a preset hour we zerg phase 4.

    You can only do 3.5 raids per week. There's no extra prize for finishing a raid quick so the pause hurts no-one.
    On our weekday raids we pause for 24 hours. At the weekends 5 hours.
  • Homish
    65 posts Member
    We usually get 50/50 participation on wekday raid and 48/50 at weekend
  • Robert
    150 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    I spent so much time working on elder, lobot and ackbar for phase 1 and now don't get a chance to even use them there since 2 people in our guild knock it out. Something should be done to balance out the difficulty between the phases in t7.
  • sugarmonster
    204 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    Robert wrote: »
    I spent so much time working on elder, lobot and ackbar for phase 1 and now don't get a chance to even use them there since 2 people in our guild knock it out. Something should be done to balance out the difficulty between the phases in t7.

    you know what u can do, set a 30 minute period after your raid starts. People can start and restart their p1 attempts but no one should post damage. After 30 minutes everyone can complete their p1 run. You end up with a lot of damage that doesn't count but everyone gets to use their p1 team that way. Now how fair is that to all the non p1 teams? Probably not very fair since the p1 people get to maximize their damage and the p2-4 people don't.
  • MrJx3
    257 posts Member
    At least you guys can do heroics...
  • Homish
    65 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    We send six guys at phase 1 and rotate who the guys are. Everyone that wants to can take their turn.

    Hope you can work out something with your guild Robert. You've got the toons you want to use them.
  • Toukai
    1822 posts Member
    MrJx3 wrote: »
    At least you guys can do heroics...

    You can too with just one easy payment of $20,000! -EA probably
  • Doga
    808 posts Member
    We do the single attack any phase until Zerg hour. Also encourage any and as many that want to hit phase 1 do so, and do as much over damage as possible.
  • pac0naut
    3236 posts Member
    Doga wrote: »
    We do the single attack any phase until Zerg hour. Also encourage any and as many that want to hit phase 1 do so, and do as much over damage as possible.

    This.
    Meanwhile, down on the farm....
  • NCNER8R
    162 posts Member
    We could crush a heroic in minutes but this is what we do and it works pretty well:

    We schedule the raid for say 10pm. Everyone gets one attack for the first wave. They are free to attack any phase they wish.

    The second wave would start 12 hours later. Say 10am the following day. By then, most in our guild has had the chance to attack, and the rancor is usually somewhere in Phase 4. Everyone is allowed to take their second attack and it's usually dead within minutes.


    Everyone in our guild seems to agree this is a fair system and doesn't require much coordination or scheduling and everyone has a pretty big window to get an attack in.

    This is exactly how we do it as well. We have about half our guild in Line Chat and half may not even speak English. The biggest thing here is that if anyone takes a 2nd or additional hit, you need to call them out in, in game, chat. You want to deter any people trying to get more than 1 hit in prior to burning off the boss ("Zerg" Mode - 12 hours from the start).

    This system will likely serve well for a few weeks. As your guild progresses, you will likely have to have your heaviest hitters take on P1 only or P4 only (if they are willing to agree).

    It's tough getting everyone on the same page, but sounds like your dialogue will get you there.
  • NCNER8R
    162 posts Member
    Robert wrote: »
    I spent so much time working on elder, lobot and ackbar for phase 1 and now don't get a chance to even use them there since 2 people in our guild knock it out. Something should be done to balance out the difficulty between the phases in t7.

    you know what u can do, set a 30 minute period after your raid starts. People can start and restart their p1 attempts but no one should post damage. After 30 minutes everyone can complete their p1 run. You end up with a lot of damage that doesn't count but everyone gets to use their p1 team that way. Now how fair is that to all the non p1 teams? Probably not very fair since the p1 people get to maximize their damage and the p2-4 people don't.

    We had not considered this, this actually can solve some of our upcoming problems. THANKS!
  • Stingray
    107 posts Member
    We've been tweaking our raid schedule since we started doing them about three weeks ago. We've got a system now that works well so far for our guild. We've got members from around the world so time zones spread -12hr/+12hr. We rotate guild start time +6hrs once a week so all get a shot at a more ideal time for them. To avoid time zone confusion, once the raid starts we all follow the countdown timer.

    We have also broken all 50 members into 3 groups (we call them squadrons) that rotate which gets the 1st window of attacks.

    We do "4 Windows" of 12hrs each as follows

    1st Window 2 days - 1 day 13hrs remaining: Group A get one attack each. At 25% of damage in P1 they must attempt retreating all players and auto battle those who fail to escape

    2nd Window 1 day 12hrs - 1 day 1hr remaining: All who have not yet attacked get one attack each

    3rd Window 24hrs - 13hrs remaining: All members get a second attack

    4th Window 12hrs - 0hrs remaining: Free-for-all (if needed)

    Since you can't do more than one T7 every 48hrs there is no need to rush through the raids. Also since P1/P2 is the highest chance of massive damage, by rotating who gets the first shot at it you rotate those with the best chance for top 5 finish. In addition, by limiting the damage in P1 to 25% max per person you keep from too much damage coming off the board.

    We also have a graphic of the raid schedule and a FAQ posted in our guild chat. So far that's been working well for us. In almost every single T7 we've had 100% of our members get damage in. I'm sure we will have to tweak it more in the future, but for us it's working well so far.
  • Fher
    188 posts Member
    What we do is start raid at a certain time for everyone to log ZERO damage, then 12 hours later it's FFA.

    We have at least 4-5 members who can solo P1 and do 2 mil+ myself included.

    We also monitor to make sure no one cheats. We kicked out a member who cleared P1 in less than 10 minutes which we know it's impossible. The ratio is about 10% every 2 1/2 to 3 minutes. It's possible with great RNG to finish under 20 minutes, but definitely not under 10.

    All members who can solo P1 finish well after Rancor is dead, but their damage on pigs registers after the fact. It's a great thing because allows other members to do more damage on pigs.

    Not the best system, but works for us.
  • sying wrote: »
    That's why we submit screenshots and boot people who cheat. Even if we didn't have screenshots, our officers routinely check to see that nobody's damage has improved before zerg. We even have punishments for people who go in before zerg is supposed to start, get their damage, and wait until zerg start time to actually lose their last toon. That way they register damage right away and can get in right away. Our officers monitor all this heavily.

    Last guild leadership did that. That's why we left and made our own heroic guild.

    Frustrated me in particular to no end that anyone would think that was okay. You set a "go" time, you wait for that go. You don't get 10x retreats to create the perfect run before finishing the raid so you get the best possibly score at the "Zerg" time. That's unfair to those who follow the rules.

  • How do other guilds handle this? We have a voluntary Line chat app, but the leader refuses to make this a requirement. I understand his thinking, we don't know the ages of everyone, and neither of us would want our children to be on a chat app with a bunch of adults, so this is NOT a possibility.

    Try this: https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/4psr22/the_squadron_system_an_option_for_higherlevel/

    We run this system right now and it works really well. The "on" team usually gets 3 - 4 attacks. The "off" team gets to play a game of who can get closest to 10,500 damage in p4 without going over.

    Also, you have to coordinate somehow outside of game chat. Otherwise it will be a mess.
  • We run a damage cap system and our raid last about 13.5hours. All members are allowed 1 attack and their damage is limited to 225k with a penalty for going over. This leaves almost all of phase 4 as a free for all. Most members run a weak squad and save their A team for ffa, others run a 4 man team. At ffa everyone can attack as much as they like. It's a little difficult to get figured out but it allows almost all members an equal opportunity to place in top 10 and it ensures all 50 can get an attack.
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