He's AOE kryptonite and he wrecks the AI regularly. I'll take 2 turns of slow over 1 turn of stun any day. At 5* he's the lowest starred member of my team and even still he's always the last man standing, wish he did a little more damage though. I'm still probably going to work him up to 7* just because his health is unreal already and he could fit into a lot of different builds.
Well I just fought a team with a high-star Fives and I did what everyone else says: ignored him and saved him for last. He didn't do much. It appears that Fives is another character that is much more useful on offense than defense. He's very slow and didn't impact the game very much. I may have to rethink 7*ing him.
I agree completely. He was more impressive at lower numbers. He seemed to get eclipsed quickly as the game progressed. I've stopped farming him for now at 5 stars.
I've just had the "fun experience" of attempting to deal with a Phasma/Poe team. I will stand by all of my earlier comments that he is broken and this combo is even more broken.
There is nothing fun about starting a game and watching the enemy get 8 of the first 9 turns while you stand by and watch your entire team get wrecked.
I don't care if there's some obscure $2000 team that can counter this. It needs to be fixed.
There's so many aspects that need fixed if you're trying to extend battles. Poggle being fast and O up is brutal. FOO is nearly as deadly as Poe - same speed, has same outcome on his meter control. Jinn with ally assist early on that has 75% more damage from the assisting ally. There's a lot of offense crammed in the early rounds.
We also don't know how this will play out at later levels. I was looking at some mined data for level 80+ and some toons that aren't in meta now get some pretty nasty stuff at true end game. I still say we need to be patient. The game is already planned out well beyond 70. Barriss for example may even pop back in the meta...or 5s....at end game. The last skill on many abilities / attacks / leaders is huge (assuming this is valid data that makes it to production).
Poe is a pain in the rear end I agree. If they nerfed him I wouldn't say it was a terrible idea, but you still have a lot of other powerful offensive stuff in the early rounds that will tend to push battles to be quicker.
I agree completely. He was more impressive at lower numbers. He seemed to get eclipsed quickly as the game progressed. I've stopped farming him for now at 5 stars.
The more complex a character is, the wider the gap between how well I play them and how well the AI plays them. Fives falls into this category. Played properly he can be a supreme menace. But the AI doesn't play him well.
I should also add that one reason I don't have much trouble with him as an enemy is that I run a stun team. Stunned means no counters and you can burst him down.
On offense, I think he has a lot of potential. I still want to try him on an assist/counter team. But I do think as you say that 5* will be enough to tell how well that will work. Maybe even 4*.
FTP Version: Sid, Dooku, Poggle, Geo Soldier and IG-86
Sid has already been explained so here is the synergy with Poggle, Geo Soldier and IG-86.
I will add Dooku's main goal is get a stun on a Jedi preferable Ben or GQJ, however with a Poggle buff he doesn't hit like a wet noodle. I've seen 3-4k x2 with his counter. That's with a 6* max ability Dooku, plus if he gets called to assist from either Geo S or IG 86 he get and additional damage multiple.
Poggle, Speed 136, gives a team offensive up, speed up to droids and comes with an ability block on his basic.
Geonosian Soldier, Speed 134, has an assist attack that if it calls another Geonosian gets increased damage. His unique give Geonosians increased crit chance and he gets 30% to his turn meter when scoring a crit hit. If you ever wondered why he jumps out of turn this is why.
Geo's special also has a 2 turn cool down so it often available twice in a match. Finally I must mention his basic crits for 4-5k (with Poggle buff) and with his unique he crits a lot.
Last is IG-86 why 86 over 88? He just has a better health pool. His special at max level with a Poggle buff will do some massive damage and gets and assist, he also becomes faster than FoTp after he received the poggle speeds buff.
This is not the be all end all FTP build again our objective was just to show that meter builds and FoTp can be beat. It's gives you good speed, stuns, ability blocks, dots, buffs, extra attacks, AOE and high single target dps.
So I had a couple of bad matches and threw out a variation of this team today and I'll be damned if it didnt work like a charm. I was running 7* Sid, 7* Lumi, 6* Poggle, 4* Dooku, and 4* Geo and totally chewed up a Phasma/Poe/FOTP team that had 2k power on this squad that had just beaten my main team the match before. Still probably wont stick with it because I'm miles away from getting Dooku strong enough long term and I want find a way to keep Luke in the mix, but I could see this squad being pretty lethal.
FTP Version: Sid, Dooku, Poggle, Geo Soldier and IG-86
Sid has already been explained so here is the synergy with Poggle, Geo Soldier and IG-86.
I will add Dooku's main goal is get a stun on a Jedi preferable Ben or GQJ, however with a Poggle buff he doesn't hit like a wet noodle. I've seen 3-4k x2 with his counter. That's with a 6* max ability Dooku, plus if he gets called to assist from either Geo S or IG 86 he get and additional damage multiple.
Poggle, Speed 136, gives a team offensive up, speed up to droids and comes with an ability block on his basic.
Geonosian Soldier, Speed 134, has an assist attack that if it calls another Geonosian gets increased damage. His unique give Geonosians increased crit chance and he gets 30% to his turn meter when scoring a crit hit. If you ever wondered why he jumps out of turn this is why.
Geo's special also has a 2 turn cool down so it often available twice in a match. Finally I must mention his basic crits for 4-5k (with Poggle buff) and with his unique he crits a lot.
Last is IG-86 why 86 over 88? He just has a better health pool. His special at max level with a Poggle buff will do some massive damage and gets and assist, he also becomes faster than FoTp after he received the poggle speeds buff.
This is not the be all end all FTP build again our objective was just to show that meter builds and FoTp can be beat. It's gives you good speed, stuns, ability blocks, dots, buffs, extra attacks, AOE and high single target dps.
So I had a couple of bad matches and threw out a variation of this team today and I'll be damned if it didnt work like a charm. I was running 7* Sid, 7* Lumi, 6* Poggle, 4* Dooku, and 4* Geo and totally chewed up a Phasma/Poe/FOTP team that had 2k power on this squad that had just beaten my main team the match before. Still probably wont stick with it because I'm miles away from getting Dooku strong enough long term and I want find a way to keep Luke in the mix, but I could see this squad being pretty lethal.
Lumi on Poggle was a solid adjustment, Luke as a leader may be decent lots of tenacity and he does hit hard. Been looking at a tenacity build for a while now. Has promise but still missing something.
FTP Version: Sid, Dooku, Poggle, Geo Soldier and IG-86
Sid has already been explained so here is the synergy with Poggle, Geo Soldier and IG-86.
I will add Dooku's main goal is get a stun on a Jedi preferable Ben or GQJ, however with a Poggle buff he doesn't hit like a wet noodle. I've seen 3-4k x2 with his counter. That's with a 6* max ability Dooku, plus if he gets called to assist from either Geo S or IG 86 he get and additional damage multiple.
Poggle, Speed 136, gives a team offensive up, speed up to droids and comes with an ability block on his basic.
Geonosian Soldier, Speed 134, has an assist attack that if it calls another Geonosian gets increased damage. His unique give Geonosians increased crit chance and he gets 30% to his turn meter when scoring a crit hit. If you ever wondered why he jumps out of turn this is why.
Geo's special also has a 2 turn cool down so it often available twice in a match. Finally I must mention his basic crits for 4-5k (with Poggle buff) and with his unique he crits a lot.
Last is IG-86 why 86 over 88? He just has a better health pool. His special at max level with a Poggle buff will do some massive damage and gets and assist, he also becomes faster than FoTp after he received the poggle speeds buff.
This is not the be all end all FTP build again our objective was just to show that meter builds and FoTp can be beat. It's gives you good speed, stuns, ability blocks, dots, buffs, extra attacks, AOE and high single target dps.
So I had a couple of bad matches and threw out a variation of this team today and I'll be damned if it didnt work like a charm. I was running 7* Sid, 7* Lumi, 6* Poggle, 4* Dooku, and 4* Geo and totally chewed up a Phasma/Poe/FOTP team that had 2k power on this squad that had just beaten my main team the match before. Still probably wont stick with it because I'm miles away from getting Dooku strong enough long term and I want find a way to keep Luke in the mix, but I could see this squad being pretty lethal.
Lumi on Poggle was a solid adjustment, Luke as a leader may be decent lots of tenacity and he does hit hard. Been looking at a tenacity build for a while now. Has promise but still missing something.
Goal right now is Sid/Luke/Poggle/86/Geo. 86 and Geo are still 4* so it will take a couple weeks before I can really see how it works, but I like the idea. Working on 88 too so between those and Lumi I can play around with it a bit. I've tried Luke as the leader a few times but the tenacity buff hasn't made enough of a difference to replace Sid. Still hits like a truck though and he isn't part of any of the standard meta builds so I want to try something new. Sometime in the future I want Boba as lead because that leader skill is amazing but his speed makes it hard to want to devote too many resources on him.
They won't nerf anything just because it's a good synergy. Getting beat? Farm the combo that beat you or accept you won't ever be at the top. This is one of the more balanced games I've ever played. I actually come to the forums now just to see who is whining about what today. What makes it hilarious is that there really isn't anything in the game that cant be countered. Either the player doesn't want to farm the necessary toons to do that or don't want to spend the money. Both ways its tough luck, can whine all you want I doubt they will bakance anything besides broken skills. Funny watching people cry tho!
They won't nerf anything just because it's a good synergy.
Poe isn't overpowered because of "good synergy". He's overpowered because he's overpowered. He can be dropped into ANY decent high-offense team and turn it from good into basically winning on the first round.. unless THAT team also has Poe, or is full of $$$ characters.
I'd be hard-pressed to think of a single team where he would not have "good synergy".. except maybe mine (but I run a very non-standard team). That's the definition of overpowered.
He should and I believe will be adjusted so that he can't go early AND taunt AND expose AND reduce turn meters. Because no character should be able to do all of that in one action so early in the game. If they do not adjust him, he will soon be on EVERY team.
FOTP -- also overpowered. Period. Not because of synergy, but because he does too much damage for his health total. He's not a glass cannon, he's a plexiglas cannon. He needs to be fixed. In fact, all of the one-shotting nonsense needs to go away. Soonest.
I actually come to the forums now just to see who is whining about what today.
I see lots of people discussing characters and options, and sharing experiences. Your post, on the other hand, is actually what you describe, with no useful contribution, and full of insults as well.
What makes it hilarious is that there really isn't anything in the game that cant be countered.
That's irrelevant. The fact that there exists an obscure counter to something doesn't mean it is not overpowered. We don't have the luxury of knowing who we are facing in Arena ahead of time. And if it's necessary to put specific characters in to counter 1 of 71 characters, again that proves that that one is broken.
Either the player doesn't want to farm the necessary toons to do that or don't want to spend the money.
This is nonsense. And Poe is an F2P character, it should not require spending $1000 to counter him. If it does, then again, that means 95%+ of teams will be running Poe.
Both ways its tough luck, can whine all you want I doubt they will bakance anything besides broken skills. Funny watching people cry tho!
Both Poe and FOTP are broken. It's too bad you can't discuss this subject without resorting to your usual condescending and name-calling, though. Of course you are flatly ignoring the fact that some very top players, many of whom have spent a lot more on the game than you have, agree that Poe is overpowered. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.
just a side note, Poe will reach top tier speed when fully geared in level VIII, and GS/Poggle will become 2nd tier. The only hope to counter this setup is to bring Rey+Sidious/Dooku, hopefully they can dps down FOTP before Poe taunts
I have the privilege of being on a very competitive server. Players like Pilot, Ailan and Cythis (guild and / or chat mates as well) that post on these forums are always pushing the envelope. From reading these forums from the start, the meta on that server has tended to be 2-3 weeks ahead of the general meta information available on the forum. I say that to set up what's been going on in the meta over time.
Currently, FOTP and Poe are all the rage on the forums and nerf bunnies are nipping at their toes ... but these guys have been prominent and dominant in the meta as soon as Poe was released nearly 4 weeks ago. This is really not a recent phenomenon. I had Poe 6* in just a few days after launch as a result of hoarding Cantina shipments. So we've collectively been planning (Cythis, Pilot, A, and me) to go beyond Poe for a few weeks now and I'd like to officially announce that the current Poe era and speed / meter barrier (FOO is in there too) has been busted at a high rate in the P2P segment. This was done WITHOUT the use of Poe OR FOTP.
The build is simple in it's premise, but took some faith given the lack of health and dependency on early killing. Toons that can be used:
Jinn
Leia
Poggle
Rey
Dooku
Sid (leader)
This was tested against various TIE / Poe team compositions (always including Poe/Tie though) involving toons like Jinn, Old Ben, Leia, TIE, Poe, Phasma, Lumi, Poggle, Sid....the top build compositions you've been reading about recently.
Poggle and Leia are somewhat interchangeable here - both work well. Poggle is better to leave in the D slot since his special actually does something unlike Leia's stealth in rd 1.
Really here you have multiple toons that are faster than Poe and can effectively kill him before he moves. Dooku kind of makes a big return here as his Jedi stun on an opposing Lumi / Ben / Jinn can be huge. Even without that Jedi stun, having Jinn (he gives offense up on dispel), Leia (crit up chance), or Poggle (offense up) makes the multi-hit point Dooku a pretty deadly toon again.
Sid as the leader is great for the crit % up and crit damage - you're going speedy glass cannons here so you need kills quick. He also does great damage + DOT early in the match to soften toons up. His DoTs on FoTP also count as "hits" that can help remove advantage on FOTP, which is key to reduce his chance to hit multiple times and do less damage.
Rey here is deadly - with 140 speed and the ability to crit >6k on her 2nd ability and >9-11k crit on her third ability early in round 2...she's a killing machine.
Jinn is phenominal with the assist that gives the ally increased damage - he can bring most any toon near death with that skill. Then he's a champ with the dispel (kill FOTP adv, or an opposing poggle O up on FOTP, or taunt or Poe, etc.) and giving the team offense up. Top tier toon for sure. Anyone that says different doesn't know him in depth.
Leia if I use her is just early damage on Poe to kill him quick - Poggle for the O up. I find both to be about equally effective attacking. You trade earlier damage for stronger damage later on. These toons are really fast so they hit pretty early on in rd 2 so Poggle buffing after they move is still strong.
I've even had situations where I didn't kill Poe as he jumped out in the speed turn, he still proc'd the meter reduction and it wasn't a big nerf because of the overall speed of this team. Plus he's so heavily damaged that he's dead asap anyway...which means he can't protect the other toons.
The funny thing is once FOTP doesn't have anyone giving him meter and he doesn't have advantage...he's a really average toon. He gets in one hit in round 1 and then he's dead. His lack of speed becomes very apparent. He really is balanced once you're truly evaluating him among the wider meta - not just the common subset of toons most have built right now. That was most baffling to me really out of this. Just watching him sit there and be an average guy that gets off one hit. He's nothing special at all without the proper team support and setup (this can be said about many toons).
So what does this mean for nerfing TIE / Poe, etc. and other toons? Just means we need to be patient. Patient patient patient. We can't truly evaluate OP / no OP until the game and roster is much more mature. I wouldn't say any of the toons in the build above are OP, but they are just good because they rob the Poe / TIE build of it's main asset: Speed advantage.
Now, currently under testing with good initial results is a F2P version that should be able to take down a Poe + FOTP build at a satisfactory rate. Cythis is currently working on this and it's an impressive composition that he will detail later on in this post.
TL;DR: The reign of Poe and FOTP is officially over!!!...Almost just as it was getting started on the forums. Lesson here is just be aware that meta moves fast and moves often. Don't overreact to a seemingly OP toon at any give time. Have patience. We are early in the game's existence. NO ONE - repeat - NO ONE knows true end game and has built all possible toon combinations and has the expertise to for certain say something is OP and needs nerfed. This team I reference above as a counter has already lost in PVP - it's far from unbeatable.
Thanks for your time - please feel free to ask any details.
you know whats funny, i was probably the only poe user on my server in the top 10-50. Everyone always said he was useless now everyone is on the rage about him. QGJ can just despell his taunt and it's over for poe's effectiveness. I still use him b/c i have him geared and maxed (not stared) but once i get ig86 geared up and ready for pvp i think i'm going to drop either JC or Poe for him.
FTP Version: Sid, Dooku, Poggle, Geo Soldier and IG-86
Sid has already been explained so here is the synergy with Poggle, Geo Soldier and IG-86.
I will add Dooku's main goal is get a stun on a Jedi preferable Ben or GQJ, however with a Poggle buff he doesn't hit like a wet noodle. I've seen 3-4k x2 with his counter. That's with a 6* max ability Dooku, plus if he gets called to assist from either Geo S or IG 86 he get and additional damage multiple.
Poggle, Speed 136, gives a team offensive up, speed up to droids and comes with an ability block on his basic.
Geonosian Soldier, Speed 134, has an assist attack that if it calls another Geonosian gets increased damage. His unique give Geonosians increased crit chance and he gets 30% to his turn meter when scoring a crit hit. If you ever wondered why he jumps out of turn this is why.
Geo's special also has a 2 turn cool down so it often available twice in a match. Finally I must mention his basic crits for 4-5k (with Poggle buff) and with his unique he crits a lot.
Last is IG-86 why 86 over 88? He just has a better health pool. His special at max level with a Poggle buff will do some massive damage and gets and assist, he also becomes faster than FoTp after he received the poggle speeds buff.
This is not the be all end all FTP build again our objective was just to show that meter builds and FoTp can be beat. It's gives you good speed, stuns, ability blocks, dots, buffs, extra attacks, AOE and high single target dps.
I am sorry, but how is this team comp an effective counter to a Poe/FOTP team?
Most Poe/FOTP teams that I come across have Poe, FOTP, Leia and two out of Phasma/Sid/Lumi/QGJ (and maybe Kylo).
Let's assume a team of Phasma (L), Poe, FOTP, Leia and QGJ (which I find as the most lethal setup). The way how I see the match pans out is,
1. I try to stun Poe with Dooku because he poses as the biggest threat with his taunt/expose/turn meter manipulation. If the stun works, awesome, but often times I find it fails as Poe has high tenacity. Leia is another likely option to go after
2. Leia goes stealth. Let's assume Phasma's assist bonus did not kick in
3. I attack the opponent using Sid - whether it is the AOE or single target attack, doesn't really matter
4. Poe uses taunt. Again, no assist for the sake of argument, but some of my squad loses turn meter
5. Long story short, game over. QGJ attacks with assist and if the assist comes from Leia or FOTP, one of my heroes is gone. Phasma uses AOE slow and FOTP uses his attack which takes out another hero. My Poggle, Genosian Soldier and/or IG-86 didn't even get a chance to act. Even if they did get a turn and take out Poe, Leia will strike with her bugged 3/4 hits early in Round 2. You are probably down to 3,4 heroes by early Round 2 with little chance to turn the tide unless you suddenly get extremely lucky
My point is unless Poe is neutralised by Dooku (which often fails than it happens), my heavy hitters will probably not get a chance to hit. What am I missing here?
ObiWan good stuff! I've also noticed Dooku's stun is not very reliable with Poe. Daka's isn't much better and Poe dodges it. Thanks for the insight on IG-86. I have him underway but began thinking I needed IG-88 instead. I just acquired Poggle, GEO and HK-47. Seems like droid teams need to fight droid teams but need stunning!
Known as íN Quartus Ω in the game
Member of Team Instinct
I have the privilege of being on a very competitive server. Players like Pilot, Ailan and Cythis (guild and / or chat mates as well) that post on these forums are always pushing the envelope. From reading these forums from the start, the meta on that server has tended to be 2-3 weeks ahead of the general meta information available on the forum. I say that to set up what's been going on in the meta over time.
Currently, FOTP and Poe are all the rage on the forums and nerf bunnies are nipping at their toes ... but these guys have been prominent and dominant in the meta as soon as Poe was released nearly 4 weeks ago. This is really not a recent phenomenon. I had Poe 6* in just a few days after launch as a result of hoarding Cantina shipments. So we've collectively been planning (Cythis, Pilot, A, and me) to go beyond Poe for a few weeks now and I'd like to officially announce that the current Poe era and speed / meter barrier (FOO is in there too) has been busted at a high rate in the P2P segment. This was done WITHOUT the use of Poe OR FOTP.
The build is simple in it's premise, but took some faith given the lack of health and dependency on early killing. Toons that can be used:
Jinn
Leia
Poggle
Rey
Dooku
Sid (leader)
This was tested against various TIE / Poe team compositions (always including Poe/Tie though) involving toons like Jinn, Old Ben, Leia, TIE, Poe, Phasma, Lumi, Poggle, Sid....the top build compositions you've been reading about recently.
Poggle and Leia are somewhat interchangeable here - both work well. Poggle is better to leave in the D slot since his special actually does something unlike Leia's stealth in rd 1.
Really here you have multiple toons that are faster than Poe and can effectively kill him before he moves. Dooku kind of makes a big return here as his Jedi stun on an opposing Lumi / Ben / Jinn can be huge. Even without that Jedi stun, having Jinn (he gives offense up on dispel), Leia (crit up chance), or Poggle (offense up) makes the multi-hit point Dooku a pretty deadly toon again.
Sid as the leader is great for the crit % up and crit damage - you're going speedy glass cannons here so you need kills quick. He also does great damage + DOT early in the match to soften toons up. His DoTs on FoTP also count as "hits" that can help remove advantage on FOTP, which is key to reduce his chance to hit multiple times and do less damage.
Rey here is deadly - with 140 speed and the ability to crit >6k on her 2nd ability and >9-11k crit on her third ability early in round 2...she's a killing machine.
Jinn is phenominal with the assist that gives the ally increased damage - he can bring most any toon near death with that skill. Then he's a champ with the dispel (kill FOTP adv, or an opposing poggle O up on FOTP, or taunt or Poe, etc.) and giving the team offense up. Top tier toon for sure. Anyone that says different doesn't know him in depth.
Leia if I use her is just early damage on Poe to kill him quick - Poggle for the O up. I find both to be about equally effective attacking. You trade earlier damage for stronger damage later on. These toons are really fast so they hit pretty early on in rd 2 so Poggle buffing after they move is still strong.
I've even had situations where I didn't kill Poe as he jumped out in the speed turn, he still proc'd the meter reduction and it wasn't a big nerf because of the overall speed of this team. Plus he's so heavily damaged that he's dead asap anyway...which means he can't protect the other toons.
The funny thing is once FOTP doesn't have anyone giving him meter and he doesn't have advantage...he's a really average toon. He gets in one hit in round 1 and then he's dead. His lack of speed becomes very apparent. He really is balanced once you're truly evaluating him among the wider meta - not just the common subset of toons most have built right now. That was most baffling to me really out of this. Just watching him sit there and be an average guy that gets off one hit. He's nothing special at all without the proper team support and setup (this can be said about many toons).
So what does this mean for nerfing TIE / Poe, etc. and other toons? Just means we need to be patient. Patient patient patient. We can't truly evaluate OP / no OP until the game and roster is much more mature. I wouldn't say any of the toons in the build above are OP, but they are just good because they rob the Poe / TIE build of it's main asset: Speed advantage.
Now, currently under testing with good initial results is a F2P version that should be able to take down a Poe + FOTP build at a satisfactory rate. Cythis is currently working on this and it's an impressive composition that he will detail later on in this post.
TL;DR: The reign of Poe and FOTP is officially over!!!...Almost just as it was getting started on the forums. Lesson here is just be aware that meta moves fast and moves often. Don't overreact to a seemingly OP toon at any give time. Have patience. We are early in the game's existence. NO ONE - repeat - NO ONE knows true end game and has built all possible toon combinations and has the expertise to for certain say something is OP and needs nerfed. This team I reference above as a counter has already lost in PVP - it's far from unbeatable.
Thanks for your time - please feel free to ask any details.
you know whats funny, i was probably the only poe user on my server in the top 10-50. Everyone always said he was useless now everyone is on the rage about him. QGJ can just despell his taunt and it's over for poe's effectiveness. I still use him b/c i have him geared and maxed (not stared) but once i get ig86 geared up and ready for pvp i think i'm going to drop either JC or Poe for him.
So I was reliably wining against many Poe teams but Poe gets his speed upgrade (bumping him to 143) at level 61 (his speed gear at Gear8 is not level-gated) so now he moves in the 7th turn, where he at very worst case still moves before both GS, Poggle, QGJ and with RNG-chance before Leia&Sid and co.
Any thoughts on how to beat him now? I do use my own Poe but I believe he either needs his speed tweaked to be 142 or turn-meter removal being resistible.
So I was reliably wining against many Poe teams but Poe gets his speed upgrade (bumping him to 143) at level 61 (his speed gear at Gear8 is not level-gated) so now he moves in the 7th turn, where he at very worst case still moves before both GS, Poggle, QGJ and with RNG-chance before Leia&Sid and co.
Any thoughts on how to beat him now? I do use my own Poe but I believe he either needs his speed tweaked to be 142 or turn-meter removal being resistible.
Not at this point - I haven't faced enough yet to tinker with counters. There are folks theorycrafting builds though based on higher level projections. For the foreseeable future that's the next challenge at this 61-70 stopping point. Dealing with the clone Poe at 143 speed. Seems hard to do right now without also having Poe, but that's something to work on and explore in the coming weeks.
I thought Leia/FOTP were bad enough, but P2P players are loading more up on speedy heavy hitters.
Faced a P2P team of Sid (L), Rey, QGJ, Genosian Soldier and Poe today and got obliterated. Who needs Phasma when you get guaranteed assists up so fast? No need to rely on RNG. Since the team was full of high dps, each attack/assist amplified by Sid's leader bonus meant a sure kill. Granted, the team was higher level than me (62 vs. 60), but I was done by Round 2.
The more I play this game, the more I am scratching my head at the overall hero design. There should always be a trade-off between speed and damage (can you imagine a super heavy tank that is as nimble as a light tank? Nope) - which this game clearly seems to ignore.
Some people complain about Dooku, but he fits that principle perfectly: super-fast and very annoying, but little damage, just like a skirmisher. However, the game has too many anomalies; heroes that go fast and hit hard.
I thought Leia/FOTP were bad enough, but P2P players are loading more up on speedy heavy hitters.
Faced a P2P team of Sid (L), Rey, QGJ, Genosian Soldier and Poe today and got obliterated. Who needs Phasma when you get guaranteed assists up so fast? No need to rely on RNG. Since the team was full of high dps, each attack/assist amplified by Sid's leader bonus meant a sure kill. Granted, the team was higher level than me (62 vs. 60), but I was done by Round 2.
The more I play this game, the more I am scratching my head at the overall hero design. There should always be a trade-off between speed and damage (can you imagine a super heavy tank that is as nimble as a light tank? Nope) - which this game clearly seems to ignore.
Some people complain about Dooku, but he fits that principle perfectly: super-fast and very annoying, but little damage, just like a skirmisher. However, the game has too many anomalies; heroes that go fast and hit hard.
What are you thinking, CG?
See....it's not Leia or TIE specifically....pointing out those two or any one toon is missing the main point. It's the fact that too much really strong stuff in general is way too early in the match. GS is an arguably more dangerous and better toon than TIE because he goes so early and has the assist call. He also gains meter on crits and is a crit boosted character with a small cooldown on the assist - so he's hitting a lot more than TIE...he can also gain self-offense up. Jinn is quite similar. In this overall speed race, when I'm facing off vs. Jinn / GS / TIE type teams above, I actually kill Jinn and GS first and leave TIE last. That may sound crazy, but TIE is slow - I know I can likely kill him after one hit. If I let Jinn and GS run crazy though I can get just outhit and die very quick. TIE does heavy damage on one toon, but I don't have to worry about him being all over the match with multiple hit points. In this damage conversation, I bet we'd find that GS would be responsible for on average, close to or maybe even more damage than TIE because he's hitting hard, but more often and on more units.
Ha I'm on this server! It does seem like half the arena teams are some variation on Phasma/Poe/FOTP/Kylo but it seems so boring. Im (mostly) F2P so I've been focusing on farmable characters to try to break into the top 5 without using the usual first order/resistance goons. For the past couple weeks I've been building up some new characters on the side to make a team very similar to the one Cythis mentioned except I plan on using Sid/Poggle/Luke as my core and playing around with a few different sets. Got up to #2 for a little while today - should have the rest of my squad ready soon and then I can start doing work!
Nice to get a hold of the top guns of the same server!
Ha I'm on this server! It does seem like half the arena teams are some variation on Phasma/Poe/FOTP/Kylo but it seems so boring. Im (mostly) F2P so I've been focusing on farmable characters to try to break into the top 5 without using the usual first order/resistance goons. For the past couple weeks I've been building up some new characters on the side to make a team very similar to the one Cythis mentioned except I plan on using Sid/Poggle/Luke as my core and playing around with a few different sets. Got up to #2 for a little while today - should have the rest of my squad ready soon and then I can start doing work!
Nice to get a hold of the top guns of the same server!
There he is. Nice to see some new blood welcome man
Poe isn't going anywhere for the next few months atleast. His expose will be 65% -> 80% in the lvl80 cap. So hurry up all farm Poe! http://swgohdb.com/heroes/poe
I agree with the poster who said you should trade things for speed. For example, imagine Poe's taunt is 1 turn only, no debuff, while Chewacca is 2 turns and expose. Then you'll have to decide: should I get a weaker taunt, but earlier? Or a better taunt, but later? Same goes with damage. Imagine Leia is slow. Then you have to chose between a slow char that one-shots people, or another faster toon who doesn't hit hard.
Currently, many top abilities (Poe's taunt with expose and turn meter control, Rey/Leia triple hits, Poggle super buff) are also faster than weaker abilities in other chars. So Speed becomes the only thing that matters
I agree with the poster who said you should trade things for speed. For example, imagine Poe's taunt is 1 turn only, no debuff, while Chewacca is 2 turns and expose. Then you'll have to decide: should I get a weaker taunt, but earlier? Or a better taunt, but later? Same goes with damage. Imagine Leia is slow. Then you have to chose between a slow char that one-shots people, or another faster toon who doesn't hit hard.
Currently, many top abilities (Poe's taunt with expose and turn meter control, Rey/Leia triple hits, Poggle super buff) are also faster than weaker abilities in other chars. So Speed becomes the only thing that matters
It would be great if CG could consider this speed vs. damage trade-off and make changes to the overall hero design - though I guess it is unlikely given it would require a major overhaul.
Moreover, some players will go ballistic if their heroes are nerfed and CG would certainly like to avoid Barriss Gate Season 2...
Replies
I agree completely. He was more impressive at lower numbers. He seemed to get eclipsed quickly as the game progressed. I've stopped farming him for now at 5 stars.
There's so many aspects that need fixed if you're trying to extend battles. Poggle being fast and O up is brutal. FOO is nearly as deadly as Poe - same speed, has same outcome on his meter control. Jinn with ally assist early on that has 75% more damage from the assisting ally. There's a lot of offense crammed in the early rounds.
We also don't know how this will play out at later levels. I was looking at some mined data for level 80+ and some toons that aren't in meta now get some pretty nasty stuff at true end game. I still say we need to be patient. The game is already planned out well beyond 70. Barriss for example may even pop back in the meta...or 5s....at end game. The last skill on many abilities / attacks / leaders is huge (assuming this is valid data that makes it to production).
Poe is a pain in the rear end I agree. If they nerfed him I wouldn't say it was a terrible idea, but you still have a lot of other powerful offensive stuff in the early rounds that will tend to push battles to be quicker.
Not sure I completely understand the question - I apologize. Could you explain please?
The more complex a character is, the wider the gap between how well I play them and how well the AI plays them. Fives falls into this category. Played properly he can be a supreme menace. But the AI doesn't play him well.
I should also add that one reason I don't have much trouble with him as an enemy is that I run a stun team. Stunned means no counters and you can burst him down.
On offense, I think he has a lot of potential. I still want to try him on an assist/counter team. But I do think as you say that 5* will be enough to tell how well that will work. Maybe even 4*.
So I had a couple of bad matches and threw out a variation of this team today and I'll be damned if it didnt work like a charm. I was running 7* Sid, 7* Lumi, 6* Poggle, 4* Dooku, and 4* Geo and totally chewed up a Phasma/Poe/FOTP team that had 2k power on this squad that had just beaten my main team the match before. Still probably wont stick with it because I'm miles away from getting Dooku strong enough long term and I want find a way to keep Luke in the mix, but I could see this squad being pretty lethal.
Lumi on Poggle was a solid adjustment, Luke as a leader may be decent lots of tenacity and he does hit hard. Been looking at a tenacity build for a while now. Has promise but still missing something.
Goal right now is Sid/Luke/Poggle/86/Geo. 86 and Geo are still 4* so it will take a couple weeks before I can really see how it works, but I like the idea. Working on 88 too so between those and Lumi I can play around with it a bit. I've tried Luke as the leader a few times but the tenacity buff hasn't made enough of a difference to replace Sid. Still hits like a truck though and he isn't part of any of the standard meta builds so I want to try something new. Sometime in the future I want Boba as lead because that leader skill is amazing but his speed makes it hard to want to devote too many resources on him.
But I've enjoyed this thread.
I'd be hard-pressed to think of a single team where he would not have "good synergy".. except maybe mine (but I run a very non-standard team). That's the definition of overpowered.
He should and I believe will be adjusted so that he can't go early AND taunt AND expose AND reduce turn meters. Because no character should be able to do all of that in one action so early in the game. If they do not adjust him, he will soon be on EVERY team.
FOTP -- also overpowered. Period. Not because of synergy, but because he does too much damage for his health total. He's not a glass cannon, he's a plexiglas cannon. He needs to be fixed. In fact, all of the one-shotting nonsense needs to go away. Soonest. I see lots of people discussing characters and options, and sharing experiences. Your post, on the other hand, is actually what you describe, with no useful contribution, and full of insults as well. That's irrelevant. The fact that there exists an obscure counter to something doesn't mean it is not overpowered. We don't have the luxury of knowing who we are facing in Arena ahead of time. And if it's necessary to put specific characters in to counter 1 of 71 characters, again that proves that that one is broken. This is nonsense. And Poe is an F2P character, it should not require spending $1000 to counter him. If it does, then again, that means 95%+ of teams will be running Poe. Both Poe and FOTP are broken. It's too bad you can't discuss this subject without resorting to your usual condescending and name-calling, though. Of course you are flatly ignoring the fact that some very top players, many of whom have spent a lot more on the game than you have, agree that Poe is overpowered. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.
you know whats funny, i was probably the only poe user on my server in the top 10-50. Everyone always said he was useless now everyone is on the rage about him. QGJ can just despell his taunt and it's over for poe's effectiveness. I still use him b/c i have him geared and maxed (not stared) but once i get ig86 geared up and ready for pvp i think i'm going to drop either JC or Poe for him.
ObiWan good stuff! I've also noticed Dooku's stun is not very reliable with Poe. Daka's isn't much better and Poe dodges it. Thanks for the insight on IG-86. I have him underway but began thinking I needed IG-88 instead. I just acquired Poggle, GEO and HK-47. Seems like droid teams need to fight droid teams but need stunning!
Known as íN Quartus Ω in the game
Member of Team Instinct
"The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated" -Poe Dameron
If that's true, im sorry but you really are just a rich guy with no gaming experience! At all!!!
Here we go already, coming from the level 70. Pretty good quote though.
Any thoughts on how to beat him now? I do use my own Poe but I believe he either needs his speed tweaked to be 142 or turn-meter removal being resistible.
Not at this point - I haven't faced enough yet to tinker with counters. There are folks theorycrafting builds though based on higher level projections. For the foreseeable future that's the next challenge at this 61-70 stopping point. Dealing with the clone Poe at 143 speed. Seems hard to do right now without also having Poe, but that's something to work on and explore in the coming weeks.
I thought Leia/FOTP were bad enough, but P2P players are loading more up on speedy heavy hitters.
Faced a P2P team of Sid (L), Rey, QGJ, Genosian Soldier and Poe today and got obliterated. Who needs Phasma when you get guaranteed assists up so fast? No need to rely on RNG. Since the team was full of high dps, each attack/assist amplified by Sid's leader bonus meant a sure kill. Granted, the team was higher level than me (62 vs. 60), but I was done by Round 2.
The more I play this game, the more I am scratching my head at the overall hero design. There should always be a trade-off between speed and damage (can you imagine a super heavy tank that is as nimble as a light tank? Nope) - which this game clearly seems to ignore.
Some people complain about Dooku, but he fits that principle perfectly: super-fast and very annoying, but little damage, just like a skirmisher. However, the game has too many anomalies; heroes that go fast and hit hard.
What are you thinking, CG?
See....it's not Leia or TIE specifically....pointing out those two or any one toon is missing the main point. It's the fact that too much really strong stuff in general is way too early in the match. GS is an arguably more dangerous and better toon than TIE because he goes so early and has the assist call. He also gains meter on crits and is a crit boosted character with a small cooldown on the assist - so he's hitting a lot more than TIE...he can also gain self-offense up. Jinn is quite similar. In this overall speed race, when I'm facing off vs. Jinn / GS / TIE type teams above, I actually kill Jinn and GS first and leave TIE last. That may sound crazy, but TIE is slow - I know I can likely kill him after one hit. If I let Jinn and GS run crazy though I can get just outhit and die very quick. TIE does heavy damage on one toon, but I don't have to worry about him being all over the match with multiple hit points. In this damage conversation, I bet we'd find that GS would be responsible for on average, close to or maybe even more damage than TIE because he's hitting hard, but more often and on more units.
Nice to get a hold of the top guns of the same server!
There he is. Nice to see some new blood welcome man
TIE will be more OP too! Farm them! Farm them all! http://swgohdb.com/heroes/firstordertiepilot
Currently, many top abilities (Poe's taunt with expose and turn meter control, Rey/Leia triple hits, Poggle super buff) are also faster than weaker abilities in other chars. So Speed becomes the only thing that matters
It would be great if CG could consider this speed vs. damage trade-off and make changes to the overall hero design - though I guess it is unlikely given it would require a major overhaul.
Moreover, some players will go ballistic if their heroes are nerfed and CG would certainly like to avoid Barriss Gate Season 2...