I have the privilege of being on a very competitive server. Players like Pilot, Ailan and Cythis (guild and / or chat mates as well) that post on these forums are always pushing the envelope. From reading these forums from the start, the meta on that server has tended to be 2-3 weeks ahead of the general meta information available on the forum. I say that to set up what's been going on in the meta over time.
Currently, FOTP and Poe are all the rage on the forums and nerf bunnies are nipping at their toes ... but these guys have been prominent and dominant in the meta as soon as Poe was released nearly 4 weeks ago. This is really not a recent phenomenon. I had Poe 6* in just a few days after launch as a result of hoarding Cantina shipments. So we've collectively been planning (Cythis, Pilot, A, and me) to go beyond Poe for a few weeks now and I'd like to officially announce that the current Poe era and speed / meter barrier (FOO is in there too) has been busted at a high rate in the P2P segment. This was done WITHOUT the use of Poe OR FOTP.
The build is simple in it's premise, but took some faith given the lack of health and dependency on early killing. Toons that can be used:
Jinn
Leia
Poggle
Rey
Dooku
Sid (leader)
This was tested against various TIE / Poe team compositions (always including Poe/Tie though) involving toons like Jinn, Old Ben, Leia, TIE, Poe, Phasma, Lumi, Poggle, Sid....the top build compositions you've been reading about recently.
Poggle and Leia are somewhat interchangeable here - both work well. Poggle is better to leave in the D slot since his special actually does something unlike Leia's stealth in rd 1.
Really here you have multiple toons that are faster than Poe and can effectively kill him before he moves. Dooku kind of makes a big return here as his Jedi stun on an opposing Lumi / Ben / Jinn can be huge. Even without that Jedi stun, having Jinn (he gives offense up on dispel), Leia (crit up chance), or Poggle (offense up) makes the multi-hit point Dooku a pretty deadly toon again.
Sid as the leader is great for the crit % up and crit damage - you're going speedy glass cannons here so you need kills quick. He also does great damage + DOT early in the match to soften toons up. His DoTs on FoTP also count as "hits" that can help remove advantage on FOTP, which is key to reduce his chance to hit multiple times and do less damage.
Rey here is deadly - with 140 speed and the ability to crit >6k on her 2nd ability and >9-11k crit on her third ability early in round 2...she's a killing machine.
Jinn is phenominal with the assist that gives the ally increased damage - he can bring most any toon near death with that skill. Then he's a champ with the dispel (kill FOTP adv, or an opposing poggle O up on FOTP, or taunt or Poe, etc.) and giving the team offense up. Top tier toon for sure. Anyone that says different doesn't know him in depth.
Leia if I use her is just early damage on Poe to kill him quick - Poggle for the O up. I find both to be about equally effective attacking. You trade earlier damage for stronger damage later on. These toons are really fast so they hit pretty early on in rd 2 so Poggle buffing after they move is still strong.
I've even had situations where I didn't kill Poe as he jumped out in the speed turn, he still proc'd the meter reduction and it wasn't a big nerf because of the overall speed of this team. Plus he's so heavily damaged that he's dead asap anyway...which means he can't protect the other toons.
The funny thing is once FOTP doesn't have anyone giving him meter and he doesn't have advantage...he's a really average toon. He gets in one hit in round 1 and then he's dead. His lack of speed becomes very apparent. He really is balanced once you're truly evaluating him among the wider meta - not just the common subset of toons most have built right now. That was most baffling to me really out of this. Just watching him sit there and be an average guy that gets off one hit. He's nothing special at all without the proper team support and setup (this can be said about many toons).
So what does this mean for nerfing TIE / Poe, etc. and other toons? Just means we need to be patient. Patient patient patient. We can't truly evaluate OP / no OP until the game and roster is much more mature. I wouldn't say any of the toons in the build above are OP, but they are just good because they rob the Poe / TIE build of it's main asset: Speed advantage.
Now, currently under testing with good initial results is a F2P version that should be able to take down a Poe + FOTP build at a satisfactory rate. Cythis is currently working on this and it's an impressive composition that he will detail later on in this post.
TL;DR: The reign of Poe and FOTP is officially over!!!...Almost just as it was getting started on the forums. Lesson here is just be aware that meta moves fast and moves often. Don't overreact to a seemingly OP toon at any give time. Have patience. We are early in the game's existence. NO ONE - repeat - NO ONE knows true end game and has built all possible toon combinations and has the expertise to for certain say something is OP and needs nerfed. This team I reference above as a counter has already lost in PVP - it's far from unbeatable.
Thanks for your time - please feel free to ask any details.
JSA, being a total badass as usual. :-) Thanks for cracking this meta build mate. Been trying different things myself; mostly using Poe and Poggle but the issue has been initiative rolls. As always, thanks for countering the nerf/OP arguments. We are still in the early months of this game with much of the roster still untapped for strategic value and purpose.
JSA, being a total badass as usual. :-) Thanks for cracking this meta build mate. Been trying different things myself; mostly using Poe and Poggle but the issue has been initiative rolls. As always, thanks for countering the nerf/OP arguments. We are still in the early months of this game with much of the roster still untapped for strategic value and purpose.
While the ideas presented in this thread were great thoughts at the time, they are no longer applicable. At the time this thread was created, Poe went after the characters mentioned (Leia, Rey, Dooku, Sid, etc.)
This is no longer the case. Now Poe can act before all of these characters as determined by RNG.
I am a F2P player so I cant build this team quick enough to try it out, though im slowly grinding to it. wondering if you guys had any insight into how well this team would face against the current meta kings, dont know if you have tried it or faced it.
Sid (L)
Poe
Poggle
IG88
Kylo
Idea behind is to AOE behind an expose/taunt of poe. Hopeing sid and poggle buffing IG88 will allow him to do mega damage. Kylo to do his (lesser) aoe or single target damage to pick people off. kylo could be swapped for another AOE'er from F2P
Are you able to provide any thoughts/views on this team if you have used it or faced it? would the AOE's be strong enough after turn 1 to have killed one of the other team?
great post,
many thanks
I use the same team, except replace Kylo with ig-86. After completing this team it has enabled my standings to shoot from top 200 to top 30, I play on a beta server so the competition is tough. I think ig-86 is key to snipe off a healer as usually ig-88 will only bring them into the red and big heal follow ups from the enemy can reverse the situation. My Poe is only 5 star but he can take at least 4-5 hits before going down which is enough for everyone else to mop up.
I am a F2P player so I cant build this team quick enough to try it out, though im slowly grinding to it. wondering if you guys had any insight into how well this team would face against the current meta kings, dont know if you have tried it or faced it.
Sid (L)
Poe
Poggle
IG88
Kylo
Idea behind is to AOE behind an expose/taunt of poe. Hopeing sid and poggle buffing IG88 will allow him to do mega damage. Kylo to do his (lesser) aoe or single target damage to pick people off. kylo could be swapped for another AOE'er from F2P
Are you able to provide any thoughts/views on this team if you have used it or faced it? would the AOE's be strong enough after turn 1 to have killed one of the other team?
great post,
many thanks
Lol I had the exact same idea for a team last night. I suspect the enemy could get a heal off after IG-88 but before Kylo, which would be a setback for this build.
Let me know how it goes, I'll get Kylo after I finish Luke.
JSA, do you have any updates for us, following the level 70 cap? Thanks.
Not yet, but a few options are in the hopper as we build up toward 70 - Cythis and Pilot are both working on things as well. I just hit 65 today, will be 66 tomorrow. There's been some initial testing that shows promise, but it needs more time to build as it's a completely different approach. I wouldn't report anything until it is tested over multiple iterations and validated with a good estimate on the winning %. This build posted here took a good bit of time to put together when we were at 60. There's a process that takes a few days to identify the issues of a team, then to research / theorycraft available options to defeat it, and then the building action that can take 7-10 days to really get a group of heros ready to take on opponents that are already 7*, max gear, max abilities. It's possible maybe this build is OP and needs nerfed, but I don't think we are there yet to definitively say it can't be countered.
FTP Version: Sid, Dooku, Poggle, Geo Soldier and IG-86
Alternates for IG-86
Lumi
Daka
Luke
FoTp
Tusken Raider
Sid has already been explained so here is the synergy with Poggle, Geo Soldier and IG-86.
I will add Dooku's main goal is get a stun on a Jedi preferable Ben or GQJ, however with a Poggle buff he doesn't hit like a wet noodle. I've seen 3-4k x2 with his counter. That's with a 6* max ability Dooku, plus if he gets called to assist from either Geo S or IG 86 he get and additional damage multiple.
Thank you very much for this. Just curious what the counter to Sid,dooku,poggle,geo,86 is. Just run with a ventress?
I put poggle 4* into my line up in place of my 7* JC tonight and loved it. I don't have geo or 86 yet but am running Daka and with a phasma lead for the bonus attacks. Dooku, Sid, Daka and poggle all have great speed so I usually get 1-2 bonus attacks off the bat.
FTP Version: Sid, Dooku, Poggle, Geo Soldier and IG-86
Alternates for IG-86
Lumi
Daka
Luke
FoTp
Tusken Raider
Sid has already been explained so here is the synergy with Poggle, Geo Soldier and IG-86.
I will add Dooku's main goal is get a stun on a Jedi preferable Ben or GQJ, however with a Poggle buff he doesn't hit like a wet noodle. I've seen 3-4k x2 with his counter. That's with a 6* max ability Dooku, plus if he gets called to assist from either Geo S or IG 86 he get and additional damage multiple.
Poggle, Speed 136, gives a team offensive up, speed up to droids and comes with an ability block on his basic.
Geonosian Soldier, Speed 134, has an assist attack that if it calls another Geonosian gets increased damage. His unique give Geonosians increased crit chance and he gets 30% to his turn meter when scoring a crit hit. If you ever wondered why he jumps out of turn this is why.
Geo's special also has a 2 turn cool down so it often available twice in a match. Finally I must mention his basic crits for 4-5k (with Poggle buff) and with his unique he crits a lot.
Last is IG-86 why 86 over 88? He just has a better health pool. His special at max level with a Poggle buff will do some massive damage and gets and assist, he also becomes faster than FoTp after he received the poggle speeds buff.
This is not the be all end all FTP build again our objective was just to show that meter builds and FoTp can be beat. It's gives you good speed, stuns, ability blocks, dots, buffs, extra attacks, AOE and high single target dps.
Thank you very much for this. Just curious what the counter to Sid,dooku,poggle,geo,86 is. Just run with a ventress?
I put poggle 4* into my line up in place of my 7* JC tonight and loved it. I don't have geo or 86 yet but am running Daka and with a phasma lead for the bonus attacks. Dooku, Sid, Daka and poggle all have great speed so I usually get 1-2 bonus attacks off the bat.
Your version is solid. Once Poe is adjusted it should do really well at higher ranks with max skills. You should be able to counter with your build now. Stuns can stop a lot of teams if RNG is on your side
FTP Version: Sid, Dooku, Poggle, Geo Soldier and IG-86
Alternates for IG-86
Lumi
Daka
Luke
FoTp
Tusken Raider
Sid has already been explained so here is the synergy with Poggle, Geo Soldier and IG-86.
Thank you very much for this. Just curious what the counter to Sid,dooku,poggle,geo,86 is. Just run with a ventress?
I put poggle 4* into my line up in place of my 7* JC tonight and loved it. I don't have geo or 86 yet but am running Daka and with a phasma lead for the bonus attacks. Dooku, Sid, Daka and poggle all have great speed so I usually get 1-2 bonus attacks off the bat.
Your version is solid. Once Poe is adjusted it should do really well at higher ranks with max skills. You should be able to counter with your build now. Stuns can stop a lot of teams if RNG is on your side
Thanks. While I have your attention. 2 quick questions.
#1. I have kylo Ren at 140 shards currently. Think I'd be better off finishing him off and replacing... Not sure( I had planned on replacing JC but now I'm planning poggle for that slot.. Or getting Geo and replacing Phasma. Or just leave it as is.
#2. I have a little over 6000 arena currency I'm sitting on and climbing daily. What would you do? Farm ventress as a counter to tank/poggle/future buffing characters or just hold onto them and wait to see if any new characters come out.
Replies
JSA, being a total badass as usual. :-) Thanks for cracking this meta build mate. Been trying different things myself; mostly using Poe and Poggle but the issue has been initiative rolls. As always, thanks for countering the nerf/OP arguments. We are still in the early months of this game with much of the roster still untapped for strategic value and purpose.
While the ideas presented in this thread were great thoughts at the time, they are no longer applicable. At the time this thread was created, Poe went after the characters mentioned (Leia, Rey, Dooku, Sid, etc.)
This is no longer the case. Now Poe can act before all of these characters as determined by RNG.
TeamInstinct.net -- Community Site and Home to Team Instinct
I use the same team, except replace Kylo with ig-86. After completing this team it has enabled my standings to shoot from top 200 to top 30, I play on a beta server so the competition is tough. I think ig-86 is key to snipe off a healer as usually ig-88 will only bring them into the red and big heal follow ups from the enemy can reverse the situation. My Poe is only 5 star but he can take at least 4-5 hits before going down which is enough for everyone else to mop up.
Lol I had the exact same idea for a team last night. I suspect the enemy could get a heal off after IG-88 but before Kylo, which would be a setback for this build.
Let me know how it goes, I'll get Kylo after I finish Luke.
Not yet, but a few options are in the hopper as we build up toward 70 - Cythis and Pilot are both working on things as well. I just hit 65 today, will be 66 tomorrow. There's been some initial testing that shows promise, but it needs more time to build as it's a completely different approach. I wouldn't report anything until it is tested over multiple iterations and validated with a good estimate on the winning %. This build posted here took a good bit of time to put together when we were at 60. There's a process that takes a few days to identify the issues of a team, then to research / theorycraft available options to defeat it, and then the building action that can take 7-10 days to really get a group of heros ready to take on opponents that are already 7*, max gear, max abilities. It's possible maybe this build is OP and needs nerfed, but I don't think we are there yet to definitively say it can't be countered.
Thank you very much for this. Just curious what the counter to Sid,dooku,poggle,geo,86 is. Just run with a ventress?
I put poggle 4* into my line up in place of my 7* JC tonight and loved it. I don't have geo or 86 yet but am running Daka and with a phasma lead for the bonus attacks. Dooku, Sid, Daka and poggle all have great speed so I usually get 1-2 bonus attacks off the bat.
Your version is solid. Once Poe is adjusted it should do really well at higher ranks with max skills. You should be able to counter with your build now. Stuns can stop a lot of teams if RNG is on your side
Thanks. While I have your attention. 2 quick questions.
#1. I have kylo Ren at 140 shards currently. Think I'd be better off finishing him off and replacing... Not sure( I had planned on replacing JC but now I'm planning poggle for that slot.. Or getting Geo and replacing Phasma. Or just leave it as is.
#2. I have a little over 6000 arena currency I'm sitting on and climbing daily. What would you do? Farm ventress as a counter to tank/poggle/future buffing characters or just hold onto them and wait to see if any new characters come out.
Thanks a bunch for your input.
This is obsolete for now
Now that QGJ shifted to FTP, who would you replace here? IG-86?