Why change the Speed bonuses on Mods??
July 27, 2016 5:48PM
edited July 2016
I've read rumors that serious discussions are being had to limit the Speed bonuses on mods...I don't really see the reasoning behind this.
The Speed primary stat is only available on one mod. Offensively, there is no better mod than a Speed primary and that's a cold, hard fact...but there is only one slot for that offensive madness to be had.
Are we talking about removing speed as a secondary stat? I mean, the fact that it can pop up in a golden level one mod and end up with +16 speed as a secondary stat is insane. At least the availability issue of the single +30 speed bonus and then single +10% speed bonus has it's form of balance, but the idea that every mod could be adding +12 speed AND the +30 AND the +10% seems excessive. This being a serious case of either "luck" or "volume" to achieve makes it seem awful, game-wise, so I can see the appeal to oppose this.
If we are worried about the fact that +30 speed is so much higher than the set bonus of 10%, just look at health primary stat bonuses versus it's set: you can get +23.52% health from primary stat mod bonuses, and just 15% from set bonuses. Speed primary on Rey could give 18.29% stat bonus versus 10% set bonus. Both those are separated by a little over 8%. Sure, the slower the character, the higher the % the primary stat gives, but is anyone griping about adding +30 speed to "slow" characters?
Let's be clear before open discussion: I have a serious bit of strategy geared towards speed in my one and only team I have in this game. They're all decked with speed primaries and one with speed set bonus. So yeah, I stand to lose a lot if the primary stat was eradicated, but what sets me apart from the other guys (at least on my leaderboard) isn't speed primaries, but my insane speed secondaries: +16, +12, +8, +8, +7... all that on the same guy with a +30 primary....+81 speed. That's ridiculous.
Right now I'm faster than the Droids on my leaderboard, but I've investigated the effects of eradicating the speed secondaries, and without at least the speed secondaries to set you apart, no one could outpace the Droids. And if you can't outpace the Droids then they are likely going to beat you so perhaps everyone is sore about the speed bonuses for one reason or another but making a single build so much faster than everything else doesn't seem like a good idea...
The Speed primary stat is only available on one mod. Offensively, there is no better mod than a Speed primary and that's a cold, hard fact...but there is only one slot for that offensive madness to be had.
Are we talking about removing speed as a secondary stat? I mean, the fact that it can pop up in a golden level one mod and end up with +16 speed as a secondary stat is insane. At least the availability issue of the single +30 speed bonus and then single +10% speed bonus has it's form of balance, but the idea that every mod could be adding +12 speed AND the +30 AND the +10% seems excessive. This being a serious case of either "luck" or "volume" to achieve makes it seem awful, game-wise, so I can see the appeal to oppose this.
If we are worried about the fact that +30 speed is so much higher than the set bonus of 10%, just look at health primary stat bonuses versus it's set: you can get +23.52% health from primary stat mod bonuses, and just 15% from set bonuses. Speed primary on Rey could give 18.29% stat bonus versus 10% set bonus. Both those are separated by a little over 8%. Sure, the slower the character, the higher the % the primary stat gives, but is anyone griping about adding +30 speed to "slow" characters?
Let's be clear before open discussion: I have a serious bit of strategy geared towards speed in my one and only team I have in this game. They're all decked with speed primaries and one with speed set bonus. So yeah, I stand to lose a lot if the primary stat was eradicated, but what sets me apart from the other guys (at least on my leaderboard) isn't speed primaries, but my insane speed secondaries: +16, +12, +8, +8, +7... all that on the same guy with a +30 primary....+81 speed. That's ridiculous.
Right now I'm faster than the Droids on my leaderboard, but I've investigated the effects of eradicating the speed secondaries, and without at least the speed secondaries to set you apart, no one could outpace the Droids. And if you can't outpace the Droids then they are likely going to beat you so perhaps everyone is sore about the speed bonuses for one reason or another but making a single build so much faster than everything else doesn't seem like a good idea...
Post edited by StormTro0p3R_H on
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And yes, I see all primary stats at the higher end being better than the set bonuses as a problem. I can get +22.5% Crit Damage bonus from a 1* mod while the set bonus that takes up 4 slots gives me +30%. Potency on a 1* mod is +15%, way above it's set bonus. Those set bonuses should be the gold standard, not second fiddle.
I agree with @gobears21
Rumors are rumors but OP you hold abit of weight to your name so where do these rumors come from?.
If no speed bonuses on mods: the droid TEAM can move at up to 203 speed with 189 being the highest speed a single non-droid character can move and 168 being the fastest you can get any other TEAM to move.
If only primary stat and set bonus: the droid TEAM can move at up to 248 speed with 235 being the highest speed a single non-droid character can move and 212 being the fastest you can get any other TEAM to move. This is also the baseline at which we set now, pre-speed secondaries.
So the only hope that there is against Droids being the single fastest team is having better luck than them on your speed secondaries. And just to dampen the effectiveness of a neat fix I've seen: the inverse % speed bonus would make the droids even further ahead UNLESS speed bonuses apply nominal bonuses before inverse % bonuses. But honestly it seems like a headache to fix. Easiest would be to nerf the turn meter boost on Jawa Engineer...
GIve me a bit to find it. I'd rather quote it than just say...
I don't know this guy but that's a bold claim if he's just blowing smoke.
My point is, you actually have to work at forming a full team and farm all of them to get to that great speed advantage (not to mention adding the mods too). Other toons like Rey, you just need to add the mods and she can easily slide into any roster as an absolute killer at one of the fastest speeds.
So yeah, all the droid talk annoys me because I run droids but they are not in the same boat as single characters when it comes to speed. That IS their synergy advantage and you only get that when they max out and join them all together.
If more people ran Ewok teams everyone would be screaming about all the Ewok nuttiness that goes on and how they need to be nerfed but it is the same thing. If you take the time to invest and level up a full wok squad, more power to you. That is when they become most powerful.
On the contrary, it is much easier to adjust and farm one single character into a speed god, especially if you already have them at a decent level. You can essentially take any 5 random characters and become nearly as fast as the droids without any synergy. But without the synergy, they shouldn't be faster. I don't see a problem here. I see Storm's point about secondary stats but I think the speed synergy complaints with droids is off base.
It doesn't have to mean every mod stat is good for every character, but every mod stat should be good for someone.
I'd like to say, "darn I didn't get a speed mod, but this health mod will really upgrade rg."
What I'm saying now is, "darn I didn't get a speed mod, here's another worthless mod for the mod pile."
I use droids in arena and their ability to take multiple attacks and go first is huge on offense (they don't do as well on AI defense as other teams).
JE is insane for the team and makes Poggle all by pointless. JE gets a bonus of +10 speed for each droid and Jawa so at the minimum he'll get +40 speed. Stack some speed stuff on him and he can easily reach 190+ speed before his own speed bonus applies (my JE uses only 1 and 2* mods and is sitting at 191 speed). So when it comes to the first turn, JE has 230+ speed, allowing him to take the first action. He then use his TM and crit boost ability to boost every droid to 100% TM which means they now take their turns. This then combo'd with HK's lead now allows droids to take multiple actions as when 88 and HK use their AoE's, each instant of a crit provides a +50% TM bonus and with all the crit bonuses you pretty much always score at least two crits.
I regularly kill Rey before the opposing team gets to take a single action so regular Rey teams are pretty easy to beat. However, due to the low HP of the key droids, Anikan teams are pretty difficult to beat as his buffed AoE can usually kill several of your guys in a single go. Thankfully that team isn't too popular at the moment. At least not on my server.
I like Droids for all the reasons you mentioned. Before Droids had JE I cobbled together a Rebel-HRS-centric team to basically allow what JE does for Droids to be done with my Rebels. I only bring them up because when you talk about speed, JE is without a doubt the fastest character in the game. So when you talk about removing speed boosts, you eliminate the little chance you have of meeting or exceeding the speed of the droid team.
I mentioned that nerfing the turn meter boost to JE would be easier than "fixing" speed mods, but honestly my stance, and I realize it isn't perfectly clear, is that they should leave the speed mods alone, leave JE alone, and let droids keep the base advantage they have at being the fastest and continue to allow the "chance" for other teams to meet or exceed their speed.
Can't see why they would chance it though, anyone that didn't spend tons of cash on the two 100% drop rate days have huge incentive to spend crystals on mod-energy refreshes to try and luck on speed primary (and secondary).
All in all with the exception of making a toon like Han viable (the new one not sth) and maybe one or two others mods have been virtually a net zero proposition or perhaps added a little offense to people who got lucky in the mod lottery. Overall I said it before and I'll say it again; I like them for raid purposes but I hate them for arena... big expense little value.
I'm all for this, but as you can see the game state concerning speed NEEDS high speed secondary stats. The primary stat can be lowered, even eradicated, but without high speed secondary stats what hope is there that you can get a team to move as fast as droids?
I know from experience that most Droid encounters I've had, even before I got my sick speed bonuses from mods, resulted in: JE, 88, 88, 86 and then possibly 88 again or possibly 47,47. A team that does this is not what I'm worried about, 3-4 attacks are not the issue. Droids can go: JE, 88, 88, 86, 47, 47, 100, 100. Hitting you with 3 AoEs, and 3 rock solid 10K bursts before you move! Clones break up this party, as does Anakin. As of now, so does my Rebel team. I don't mind the idea of an Anakin team, cause who doesn't like Anakin? But having to choose Droid or Clones otherwise? Where's the fun and diversity?
So if we need high speed, and want equal bonus...then boost other mod bonuses?? Not sure why the change was so drastic when it happened on anything but speed mods. I honestly don't remember the others but speed was twice as much, lol. Were the others so bad they needed hit so hard?
In my experience running droids, against an OldB lead, either Rey or GS will dodge and survive that initial rush. I've also faced teams that had quite substantial protection/hp bonuses on Rey that made killing her before the rush finished very difficult. Throw a RG in there, and maybe Daka, and I wouldn't even try to face that team with my droids. At least not in the 100-200 range that I'm in. There are plenty of easier teams available to face there. In top 10, maybe I'd have to chance it. Keep in mind that if droids DIDN'T act the way they did, then Rey would just go first every fight and OHKO someone anyway. Either way, someone gets their first turn down a toon. At least droids require full synergy to do it, instead of a single toon accomplishing much the same.
Beat them every day with ease with IGD, Aalya, QGJ, Anakin, Sun Fac. First 30-45 seconds is AI attacking, jedi couter attacking, B2 attacking, jedi counter attacking.
B2 and 88 just about kill themselves before I make a move.
Tough call. I like Sunfac for his dispell and taunt.
5's might be good for some surviability I have seen him hold his own against 4 opponents and through speed down not a bad thing.
Thinkin
Ani Lead
Lando
Clone Sargent (for turn 1 aoe TM reduc)
Phasma
And maybe IG88 to go after phasma speed down?
Might be fun for GW clear lol
It's hard to imagine they will make (more) sweeping changes to mods and droids though. They've already angered people enough lately.
If you were to change only one thing, I think health and especially defense could stand to improve significantly in relation to other mods.
That is similar team comp I am thinking but with 88 lead.
Also thoughts on this
Gun Di lead
Aayla
Anakin
Lumi/Barris? Or just more dps?
Plo for dispel in place of sun Fac?
Or is qui gon good enough dispel?