Ventress Tag Update

With the addition of the Separatist tag to Ventress, there was a lot of discussion/disagreement over the proper tags for her in the update thread. I don't want to beat a dead horse on that thread when there are plenty of other important topics to discuss. Below I'll summarize my thoughts on the matter and hopefully clarify certain points for some players.

1. FACT: Ventress spent a majority of her canon "screen time" as a Separatist commander. Just like Grievous, she actually led the droid army into battle on many occasions when she wasn't performing special missions for Dooku. Rounding up, she spent approximately 3 seasons as a Separatist, 1 as a Nightsister and 2 as a Bounty Hunter. (Yes that takes into account other sources like Dark Disciple) Point being, I'm honestly not sure why anyone would dispute the addition of the Separatist tag, the fact that she eventually left is irrelevant.

2. FACT: Ventress was never a true Sith, but was referred to as a "sith apprentice" just like Savage.
OPINION: Unless EA decides to bring out Darth Revan or other non-canonical characters, for the time being there are a very small number of actual Sith lords to put into the game. Since characters like Ventress and Savage had a much closer relationship with actual Sith than other minions, I think for squad synergy purposes, it would be acceptable to add the Sith tag to her.

3. OPINION: Technically Ventress spent more time as a bounty hunter than a full fledged Nightsister so I don't see any reason why the Scoundrel tag (or future equivalent if they make more tags) can't be added. However, it would be a bit much to have all those tags on one character. I think people forget that multiple versions of the same character can be released (ex. Han Solo). And since the current version of Ventress is getting the Separatist tag, adding another wouldn't make sense, so I think for now, let's just wait to see what they have planned down the road, maybe they'll release a bounty hunter version of her.

TLDR; An argument can be made for a Separatist, Sith and Scoundrel tag to Ventress, although not necessarily all for the same version of the character.

Replies

  • Bladerz
    6 posts Member
    edited August 2016
    I wonder if they ' ll make characters unique; for example two Han solo characters appearing in the same battle doesn't make much sense.

    This would give relevance for a separatist version of Ventress or Scoundrel rather than limiting her or another character to fewer tags than they actually deserve.


    Post edited by Bladerz on
  • presence of HK-47 shows they're willing to go outside of canon.
  • presence of HK-47 shows they're willing to go outside of canon.

    Agreed, however, I would say 2 things to that. First, HK is part of an EA game, so if we do see any more non canon characters, I think it's a safe bet they will also come from EA games. Second, with all the new canon material coming out (movies, comics, ect) I feel like characters from those sources will take priority for a long time.
  • presence of HK-47 shows they're willing to go outside of canon.

    Agreed, however, I would say 2 things to that. First, HK is part of an EA game, so if we do see any more non canon characters, I think it's a safe bet they will also come from EA games. Second, with all the new canon material coming out (movies, comics, ect) I feel like characters from those sources will take priority for a long time.

    I would also like to add that there has to be room fro them to add more characters.... what I mean by that is that if they added them all at once, you wouldn't have many to add.
  • Bladerz wrote: »
    I wonder if they ' ll make characters unique; for example two Han solo characters appearing in the same battle does make much sense.

    EA_Jesse actually addressed this and they're not going to make them unique. This is a holotable and anything can happen. Just as they don't restrict somebody from using both Anakin and Darth Vader at the same time.
  • Bladerz wrote: »
    I wonder if they ' ll make characters unique; for example two Han solo characters appearing in the same battle does make much sense.

    EA_Jesse actually addressed this and they're not going to make them unique. This is a holotable and anything can happen. Just as they don't restrict somebody from using both Anakin and Darth Vader at the same time.

    Thanks for clearing that up, hope they bring out storm trooper Finn ;)
  • Agreed, Ventress also should get the Sith tag. She was more close to be a Sith than Savage.

    Hope to see one day an "old Maul" character.
  • War
    932 posts Member
    DieInFire wrote: »
    Agreed, Ventress also should get the Sith tag. She was more close to be a Sith than Savage.

    Hope to see one day an "old Maul" character.

    Savage was way closer to being Sith than Ventress, she was trained as a dark disciple by Dooku but nothing more, she was a tool and was never taught more than basic dark side abilities. Savage was initially discovered by Ventress and briefly trained by her, but it was Darth Maul who completed his training in the dark side.

    Darth Maul was a Sith and took Savage as a true apprentice making him a Sith apprentice. Count Dooku never did more than take Ventress's anger and shape it into a weapon for his needs. Plus Dooku spent just as much time training Grievous to be a Jedi hunter, and we don't consider him a Sith in the slightest.
  • War wrote: »
    DieInFire wrote: »
    Agreed, Ventress also should get the Sith tag. She was more close to be a Sith than Savage.

    Hope to see one day an "old Maul" character.

    Savage was way closer to being Sith than Ventress, she was trained as a dark disciple by Dooku but nothing more, she was a tool and was never taught more than basic dark side abilities. Savage was initially discovered by Ventress and briefly trained by her, but it was Darth Maul who completed his training in the dark side.

    Darth Maul was a Sith and took Savage as a true apprentice making him a Sith apprentice. Count Dooku never did more than take Ventress's anger and shape it into a weapon for his needs. Plus Dooku spent just as much time training Grievous to be a Jedi hunter, and we don't consider him a Sith in the slightest.

    Assaj passed most of her life trained as a Jedi, after turned into the dark side, spent many years learning the dark side by herself, and trained by dooku for some years during the clone wars.
    Dooku trained savage maybe a few weeks? Mail trained him a mere few months? Maybe a year? When savage was dying he said to Maul "I was never like you"
  • War
    932 posts Member
    DieInFire wrote: »
    War wrote: »
    DieInFire wrote: »
    Agreed, Ventress also should get the Sith tag. She was more close to be a Sith than Savage.

    Hope to see one day an "old Maul" character.

    Savage was way closer to being Sith than Ventress, she was trained as a dark disciple by Dooku but nothing more, she was a tool and was never taught more than basic dark side abilities. Savage was initially discovered by Ventress and briefly trained by her, but it was Darth Maul who completed his training in the dark side.

    Darth Maul was a Sith and took Savage as a true apprentice making him a Sith apprentice. Count Dooku never did more than take Ventress's anger and shape it into a weapon for his needs. Plus Dooku spent just as much time training Grievous to be a Jedi hunter, and we don't consider him a Sith in the slightest.

    Assaj passed most of her life trained as a Jedi, after turned into the dark side, spent many years learning the dark side by herself, and trained by dooku for some years during the clone wars.
    Dooku trained savage maybe a few weeks? Mail trained him a mere few months? Maybe a year? When savage was dying he said to Maul "I was never like you"

    That still doesn't change the fact that Ventress was a dark disciple and Savage was taken as a Sith apprentice, this is all about titles and teams, not how well they were trained.
  • War wrote: »
    DieInFire wrote: »
    Agreed, Ventress also should get the Sith tag. She was more close to be a Sith than Savage.

    Hope to see one day an "old Maul" character.

    Savage was way closer to being Sith than Ventress, she was trained as a dark disciple by Dooku but nothing more, she was a tool and was never taught more than basic dark side abilities. Savage was initially discovered by Ventress and briefly trained by her, but it was Darth Maul who completed his training in the dark side.

    Darth Maul was a Sith and took Savage as a true apprentice making him a Sith apprentice. Count Dooku never did more than take Ventress's anger and shape it into a weapon for his needs. Plus Dooku spent just as much time training Grievous to be a Jedi hunter, and we don't consider him a Sith in the slightest.
    Exactly this. Ventress was trained to be a force-using assassin, not a sith. There's a difference, even if her trainer was a Sith.
    Team Steroid Council Member - "A wise leader knows when to follow"
  • ShewardN wrote: »
    War wrote: »
    DieInFire wrote: »
    Agreed, Ventress also should get the Sith tag. She was more close to be a Sith than Savage.

    Hope to see one day an "old Maul" character.

    Savage was way closer to being Sith than Ventress, she was trained as a dark disciple by Dooku but nothing more, she was a tool and was never taught more than basic dark side abilities. Savage was initially discovered by Ventress and briefly trained by her, but it was Darth Maul who completed his training in the dark side.

    Darth Maul was a Sith and took Savage as a true apprentice making him a Sith apprentice. Count Dooku never did more than take Ventress's anger and shape it into a weapon for his needs. Plus Dooku spent just as much time training Grievous to be a Jedi hunter, and we don't consider him a Sith in the slightest.
    Exactly this. Ventress was trained to be a force-using assassin, not a sith. There's a difference, even if her trainer was a Sith.

    Ventress and Savage were both trained to be force using assassins, not Sith. Again, because of this, they are both classified as "sith apprenctices"....dark disciple is just the title of a book about her. Additionally, Maul never truly completed Savages training.
  • War
    932 posts Member
    ShewardN wrote: »
    War wrote: »
    DieInFire wrote: »
    Agreed, Ventress also should get the Sith tag. She was more close to be a Sith than Savage.

    Hope to see one day an "old Maul" character.

    Savage was way closer to being Sith than Ventress, she was trained as a dark disciple by Dooku but nothing more, she was a tool and was never taught more than basic dark side abilities. Savage was initially discovered by Ventress and briefly trained by her, but it was Darth Maul who completed his training in the dark side.

    Darth Maul was a Sith and took Savage as a true apprentice making him a Sith apprentice. Count Dooku never did more than take Ventress's anger and shape it into a weapon for his needs. Plus Dooku spent just as much time training Grievous to be a Jedi hunter, and we don't consider him a Sith in the slightest.
    Exactly this. Ventress was trained to be a force-using assassin, not a sith. There's a difference, even if her trainer was a Sith.

    Ventress and Savage were both trained to be force using assassins, not Sith. Again, because of this, they are both classified as "sith apprenctices"....dark disciple is just the title of a book about her. Additionally, Maul never truly completed Savages training.

    Ventress trained Savage to be a force assassin, but Maul made him an apprentice. Being trained by a Sith does not make you a Sith apprentice, you have to be taken as an apprentice. So as powerful as Ventress was, she was never taken as an apprentice therefore not considered a Sith apprentice.

    The ultimate reason for this is because of the rule of two, Sidious was the master and Dooku was the apprentice. The situation that happened here was that Maul was assumed dead, so Sidious took a new apprentice, but it turned out he was alive and you don't simply lose the title Darth. So for awhile we had three Sith, and then four when Maul took on Savage as an apprentice.
  • War wrote: »
    ShewardN wrote: »
    War wrote: »
    DieInFire wrote: »
    Agreed, Ventress also should get the Sith tag. She was more close to be a Sith than Savage.

    Hope to see one day an "old Maul" character.

    Savage was way closer to being Sith than Ventress, she was trained as a dark disciple by Dooku but nothing more, she was a tool and was never taught more than basic dark side abilities. Savage was initially discovered by Ventress and briefly trained by her, but it was Darth Maul who completed his training in the dark side.

    Darth Maul was a Sith and took Savage as a true apprentice making him a Sith apprentice. Count Dooku never did more than take Ventress's anger and shape it into a weapon for his needs. Plus Dooku spent just as much time training Grievous to be a Jedi hunter, and we don't consider him a Sith in the slightest.
    Exactly this. Ventress was trained to be a force-using assassin, not a sith. There's a difference, even if her trainer was a Sith.

    Ventress and Savage were both trained to be force using assassins, not Sith. Again, because of this, they are both classified as "sith apprenctices"....dark disciple is just the title of a book about her. Additionally, Maul never truly completed Savages training.

    Ventress trained Savage to be a force assassin, but Maul made him an apprentice. Being trained by a Sith does not make you a Sith apprentice, you have to be taken as an apprentice. So as powerful as Ventress was, she was never taken as an apprentice therefore not considered a Sith apprentice.

    The ultimate reason for this is because of the rule of two, Sidious was the master and Dooku was the apprentice. The situation that happened here was that Maul was assumed dead, so Sidious took a new apprentice, but it turned out he was alive and you don't simply lose the title Darth. So for awhile we had three Sith, and then four when Maul took on Savage as an apprentice.

    Your logic makes sense, but Wookpedia and the Clone Wars tv show have both referred to her as Dooku's or a sith's apprentice. So she definitely was taken in as an apprentice. With all the Sith backstabbing, it's not surprising that they don't always completely follow the Rule of 2.
  • but pickachoo
  • Boo
    4134 posts Member
    Bladerz wrote: »
    Bladerz wrote: »
    I wonder if they ' ll make characters unique; for example two Han solo characters appearing in the same battle does make much sense.

    EA_Jesse actually addressed this and they're not going to make them unique. This is a holotable and anything can happen. Just as they don't restrict somebody from using both Anakin and Darth Vader at the same time.

    Thanks for clearing that up, hope they bring out storm trooper Finn ;)

    And storm trooper Luke! lol
  • Boo
    4134 posts Member
    War wrote: »
    ShewardN wrote: »
    War wrote: »
    DieInFire wrote: »
    Agreed, Ventress also should get the Sith tag. She was more close to be a Sith than Savage.

    Hope to see one day an "old Maul" character.

    Savage was way closer to being Sith than Ventress, she was trained as a dark disciple by Dooku but nothing more, she was a tool and was never taught more than basic dark side abilities. Savage was initially discovered by Ventress and briefly trained by her, but it was Darth Maul who completed his training in the dark side.

    Darth Maul was a Sith and took Savage as a true apprentice making him a Sith apprentice. Count Dooku never did more than take Ventress's anger and shape it into a weapon for his needs. Plus Dooku spent just as much time training Grievous to be a Jedi hunter, and we don't consider him a Sith in the slightest.
    Exactly this. Ventress was trained to be a force-using assassin, not a sith. There's a difference, even if her trainer was a Sith.

    Ventress and Savage were both trained to be force using assassins, not Sith. Again, because of this, they are both classified as "sith apprenctices"....dark disciple is just the title of a book about her. Additionally, Maul never truly completed Savages training.

    Ventress trained Savage to be a force assassin, but Maul made him an apprentice. Being trained by a Sith does not make you a Sith apprentice, you have to be taken as an apprentice. So as powerful as Ventress was, she was never taken as an apprentice therefore not considered a Sith apprentice.

    The ultimate reason for this is because of the rule of two, Sidious was the master and Dooku was the apprentice. The situation that happened here was that Maul was assumed dead, so Sidious took a new apprentice, but it turned out he was alive and you don't simply lose the title Darth. So for awhile we had three Sith, and then four when Maul took on Savage as an apprentice.

    Ventress is actually described as a sith acolyte and also a sith assassin.

    Opress was only considered to be a sith apprentice because Maul took him on as his apprentice and belived himself to be a sith master to rival sidious and tyranus (so technically you could say in that season of the clone wars there were 4 sith lords, which was a perversion on the rule of two anyway).
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