Galactic War Unfair?

SwordsLFD

As a player at level 51, why in Galactic War am I fighting against level 60 and level 58 teams? Half of my attacks don't register on such a high opponent. I understand making things a challenge, but it needs to be fun as well, and loosing to such a team after 5 battles just seems wrong. Maybe change it so that you won't face anyone +- 2 level from your own, or something of that nature?

Mittens

First of all, I apologize if this is already known or discussed elsewhere.

So I was on stage 11 of GW today when I noticed something interesting. I have recently learned that if you force close the game during the match, it will reset back to before you entered. But as I was doing this, I noticed the same characters took the same turns and did the same exact damage every time. I started with my Dooku attacking theirs and getting the bonus attack. As expected his countered both of mine, followed by another attack and lightning stunning my Barriss. His Sid then crit and killed mine, which is why I reset. This same exact scenario played out every time. From the exact damage numbers from each attack to resists by each team. I played this out (for testing purposes) for additional attacks to see how it would progress. My QGJ was up next and I used the assist ability on his Dooku. QGJ's attack was deflected, and Dooku attacked twice (bonus attack). Again, I reset and played this scenario 10+ times as I was in disbelief that the exact same things were happening.

I decided to change my team, and while the attacks were different, it was still reproducible with this team. Each time I force closed the app, and I started the attacks, each would hit for the same exact damage, resist the same targets, and positive/negative effects were all exactly the same. I changed back to my original team, and the first scenario played out exactly as before.

This leads me to believe the game follows a predetermined path, not random or choice based. If I have team A-B-C, and fighting team D-E-F, and A attacks D with ability 1, then it will be resisted. If I decided to use ability 2, it will be a critical for X damage. This will always be the case for this scenario.

I would really like someone from CG to comment on this, as it takes away actual choice, it only leaves the ILLUSION of choice. It's like the math game:

choose any number:
Example : 43

Add the next highest number to it
43 + 44 = 87

Add 9
87 + 9 = 96

Divide by 2
96 / 2 = 48

Subtract your original number
48 - 43 = 5

Everyone's answer will always be 5

It appears you have a choice, since you feel like you can pick any number, but the end result will always be the same.

Again, I apologize if this is old news or common knowledge, but I found it to be very interesting!

/discuss

Rogerfan

To me its common knowlegde. I did an experiment on this once when I Force closed at GW when Sid dogded a couple of times with rage, then got back and wanted to hit him again and same dodges happened. I finished that one and in the next one I force closed after first dooku hits, 6 times, all of them I hit different targets with my dooku and sid twice. His dooku hit my dooku every time with a crit everytime and 3444 power. My hits on Sid were also the same.
I went to further investigate it and found out that all crits will repeat, all stuns etc.

To all haters - no, I'm not using force close as tactic in GW, did it only a couple of times because of pure rage. I did this experiment obviously on purpose to gain knowledge not to cheat.

Edit: I also failed to mention that I did ENTIRE FIGHTS in exactly the same order later on, force closed before the finishing hit and repeated it 4 times, every single thing was exactly the same, every number, action and buff/debuff

DanTom

Agree with the above post. If you want to change the numbers I have gotten different results by subbing in someone else.

Mittens

Cpt_Dan wrote: »

Agree with the above post. If you want to change the numbers I have gotten different results by subbing in someone else.

This is exactly my point. If you sub in someone else, the fight is still predetermined based on that team makeup. Same actions will result in the exact same reactions. Which shouldn't be the case.

Triple_S

Random generators use alsways some sort of seed. This is a number from which all following random numbers are being calculated. A random generator will always produce the same random numbers if the seed is equal. I belive that the seed is being calculated based on the armys fighting each other. If you want to change your seed, just change a tiny detail, like switch the places of two characters or attack with the regular attack instead of the special one and you will see that the opponent behaves different too.

Mittens

Triple_S wrote: »

Random generators use alsways some sort of seed. This is a number from which all following random numbers are being calculated. A random generator will always produce the same random numbers if the seed is equal. I belive that the seed is being calculated based on the armys fighting each other. If you want to change your seed, just change a tiny detail, like switch the places of two characters or attack with the regular attack instead of the special one and you will see that the opponent behaves different too.

I agree, and again, this is the problem. If a current team results in character 1 taking the first turn, using ability A will ALWAYS result in series 1 2 3. Using ability B will ALWAYS result in series 4 5 6. Character 3 attacking character 7 with ability Y will ALWAYS result in a conclusion of X. This is the exact opposite of 'random'. It would be different if the first action was predetermined, and the following actions were randomized after, but it is not.

This can result in knowing that I have Dooku, Sid, lumi, barris, Chewie (for example) and if I see a team of Phasma, Kylo, Leia, JC, Sid (example), I KNOW that (example) if I use Dooku's lighting on Kylo, then Kylo and JC will both be stunned, and I can use Sid to attack JC, and then their Sid will attack my Dooku and he will counter twice. If I know the exact way the battle will play out before the battle even begins, then it's a simple matter of finding the progression that will result in my victory. With enough data, it would not be hard for a computer to be able to tell me what character needs to attack to result in the desired outcome.

Qeltar

We don't really know how the game works internally. Only the devs know that (and they won't tell us). I do know that in GW many of my fights open the same way, which Dooku zapping either Sid or Lumi. The results always differ.
I do not think the results are based on a simple calculation. I think they are simply prerolling the dice and putting them in a table. As Triple_S said, many games use numbers based on a seed, with pseudorandom numbers generated using an algorithm. (True random numbers are now possible though.)
If this is happening, then a seed is being computed based on some combination of factors in the fight, including who is fighting, and then each time something happens with a chance, the numbers are used in order off the table. This is exactly the same as if the numbers were rolled in real time, except that since the seed doesn't change, the results are the same if you do the same steps again.
This is actually a good thing, because if the numbers were truly random, everyone could just force-close repeatedly every time a fight started out not exactly as they liked. (Even as it is, the force-closing is too strong.)

Preemo_Magin

Since the AI can't know exactly when they will need a heal, and these aren't timed in advance, I think things are a but complicated. I think as Qeltar says the use an opening book. Much like in Chess, the initial mives follow a best practice. However, I have also seen that the outcome of chances seems predetermined to an extent. A stun will happen or not happen as determined before the battle starts. This could be the case if they run a tree. Remember resist and dodge apparently are decided by enemy char, but potency may define your side of things (eg: if nkt resisted my attack will land a critical).

That's how I see it. I don't think rng happens much at the client. I think most odds are defined prior to doing anything.

Qeltar

I think it's more like this. They roll a bunch of dice in advance: 72, 10, 35, 39, 55, 4, 98.
Let's say the first thing I do is use Dooku's special on Sid. The code says "give me a random number and if it's 40 or below, Sid is stunned". The number returned is 72, so Sid is not stunned. Then more numbers are asked for to determine damage, secondary stun, etc.
Say I force close and restart. The same numbers are generated, but this time I use Dooku's special on Luminara. The code this time says "give me a random number and if it's 90 or below, Lumi is stunned". The same 72 is returned, but this time Lumi IS stunned.
This may appear "predetermined" but it isn't. It is still entirely random, whether "72, 10, 35, 39, 55, 4, 98" is rolled in advance or in real time.

HavokTrigger

If you use a different ability or attack a different target, the rest of the battle plays out differently.

Barrok

I have noticed the same thing and it is upsetting. Seeing that things are predetermined sucks. You would hope it wasn't.

Merilon

I think it is good the way it is. Otherwise force closing would let you win battles you are simply not supposed to win (like reloading untill you dodge the first wave etc.)

Preemo_Magin

Qeltar wrote: »

I think it's more like this. They roll a bunch of dice in advance: 72, 10, 35, 39, 55, 4, 98.
Let's say the first thing I do is use Dooku's special on Sid. The code says "give me a random number and if it's 40 or below, Sid is stunned". The number returned is 72, so Sid is not stunned. Then more numbers are asked for to determine damage, secondary stun, etc.
Say I force close and restart. The same numbers are generated, but this time I use Dooku's special on Luminara. The code this time says "give me a random number and if it's 90 or below, Lumi is stunned". The same 72 is returned, but this time Lumi IS stunned.
This may appear "predetermined" but it isn't. It is still entirely random, whether "72, 10, 35, 39, 55, 4, 98" is rolled in advance or in real time.

This is proby correct and rhey to validate this is in the TAnks challenge. When you reach the boss, sometimes Daka Fails every single stun attempt, and this means 9 in a row. A different time she may Stun 8 out of 9 tries. I've seen it consistently happening in the Challenges, and it persists for the entire battle.

Put it more simply, the server determines which char will be lucky throughout the entire game, or unlucky through the entire battle as well. In galactic war, this is likely determined at Battle 1, for the entire 12 battles, and so It doesn't change regardless of your retreats or restarts.

ThalosKirano

Simple question really; given the backlash they've faced on here alone, do you think CG will restore the old retreat functionality? Money talks and with this move I think they'll lose money. New players will spend less as they'll struggle to keep up with older players and those like me who aren't yet level 60 will eventually grow bored of getting wasted by level 60+ teams and most likely stop playing the game.

Qeltar

Yes, it's the logical thing to do. No, they won't do it.

Kwynne4444

I feel like everyone should try out the new GW retreat atleast for a few weeks before making so many post about it

MRFREE2PLAY90

The 5% of the wallet warriors are benefiting from the recent change the other 95% are not, it was a completely unnecessary change. The only good post i saw trying to prove us wrong was someone with a 7* wallet stack saying that you could come out and go back in manipulating the enemies turns but he forgot the original point that it does not benefit anyone but the wallet warriors!. The P2P peeps have a much larger roster of toons then F2P ones its clear that the new change was aimed at the P2P audiences indirectly ?, probably so but i have a suspicion EA are starting to nerf the F2P aspects of the game .

Nicks075

No and they shouldn't.

Eaywen

Nope I'm actually plying a game now instead of manipulating a flawed system.

Daishi

I'd already beaten it before the update... what changed?

MRFREE2PLAY90

Funny that the majority of speakers said the change was wrong in another thread!. If the majority of people are unhappy with a change then CG need to acknowledge this not listen to the minority of speakers happy with the change!.

JerBu

Seems to work pretty good actually.

ThalosKirano

Daishi wrote: »

I'd already beaten it before the update... what changed?

Retreat now works like force close.

Copy145

Eaywen wrote: »

Nope I'm actually plying a game now instead of manipulating a flawed system.

You should try and add the word strategy to your vocabulary. GW has now less options. Obviously this does not bother you because you are a simple man, right?

Terrorize89

There was a bigger backlash over barriss and that never changed, so yeah lol GW won't.

MRFREE2PLAY90

https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/6133/new-galactic-war-changes/p1

Please go here it speaks for itself no need to rabble on trying to prove anything any longer to the wallet warriors.

warmonkey

I'm not gonna log into a game everyday to play a mode where I have retreat to reroll the dice.

Hope they change it back so I'll want to continue playing. I was already getting frustrated by how slow it is to build up a character in stars and gear and this has made it even worse.

Galvine

They should change it back, but I think we're stuck with it for now as we were with Barriss. I feel for the f2p and moderate spenders on this change.

RoninRenee

The starting characters you think are "cool" are bad, if you don't buy the premium heroes you're screwed as some can't be obtained any other way. The grind to get any heroes better than your starting ones takes forever. You find out just how messed up you are in arena when you face a team of premium. Characters vs your starting lineup. I'm so over this game I am now knocked back to 495 in arena and each day get pushed a little further down. So tired of these pay to win games.

Kevz57

I'm stuck in the lower 500 ranks but I'm pretty content because I know promoting one or two characters or leveling up a move makes a big difference. Where's the value of having a dominating team if it's easily achieved. I'm F2p just make it clear.