Is Vader actually even worth it yet in a palpateam? Buff him generally
August 21, 2016 3:23PM
edited August 2016
First off im very glad theyve made vader useful and fun now. He's vader, i mean come on to have this game where vader was so bad and unusable was ridiculous. Thank you for fixing him somewhat CG although you also should never made him so terrible. However it does look like it was always planned to give vader this buff, I wonder if you have plans to make him better still. Vader should actually be OP. He is vader. The grind to star him is also really long, and i should have always been very excited to 6* him and then grind to 7*, and til now didnt care at all. On the other side of that everyone has him so of course he cant be so OP that every team is a vader team.
I want to take him to gear 10 to use with emp, but dont know if hes really actually worth it. I want it to be worth it and would like advice on this.
I have 2 problems with him:
1. He is still useless on his own. He works well with palpatine which is cool but lets not act for a second like vader wouldnt be a boss in any possible battle on his own. Its vader, everyone should gear him and star him and be excited about him regardless. The fact that you can only have him at 5* for a while and 6* for a long time should make you eager to upgrade him more. He is completely dependent on the emperor right now and so you cant just throw vader in your team,which i think is a shame. I will have 7* emperor by the end of the event before you all start...
2. This is up for debate - right now, Even with Palp, i think there are others you can get to put in a palpy team who quite simply still do more damage per second. And vader's only role is dps, so if others do more damage, then there is no reason to put him in other than for fun. His ability block basic is good. That basic does very little damage though, and he is slower than other dps. So you are waiting a while for hime to get culling blade back without him doing any damage. So all he really does is toss out his saber at the start, and then not for a while. That is his only damage, and its on a 4 turn cooldown assuming you cant kill someone with his saber throw.
so it all comes down to how powerful is his saber throw? This obviously depends on how many debuffs. It would be very helpful to know some numbers for a maxed (6*) vader pre-mods.
Just to know how much he hits for and crits for with 3 debuffs, 4, 5 so we can know how good his only move actually is, and how much better he could be with supporting characters. As it stands this is his one move before the bulk of the fight is over, and as far as i can tell, a non crit with 3 debuffs it looks like around 11k with 3 debuffs for a non crit.
These are estimations but his natural crit rating looks around 25%. I have thought of getting his crit chance to 50% or so through mods, and saving some space for crit damage. with MAXED mods that would make around 22k crit, for his only move in the whole game, and that's only a 50% chance. If you don't crit, i dont think youre doing significant enough damage to justify a spot in the team. Before you get the best possible mods you can probably only crit about 18k. his aoe DOTs will do some more but you wont see more damage from him for a while.
In my opinion thats not enough for our little dark lord of sith. I am willing to be corrected here, nay i hope to be corrected so i can use vader, but it doesnt seem like he has enough damage to really be better than other options, even when he is optimised under palpatine. Lando for example has almost the same speed and can do 50k every turn after his first. Vader's initial burst of damage doesnt have the same effect as what land will do to you over time, nor is the initial burst as big as rey's, who can also do constant damage at a far higher speed. Rey can ensure someone is dead after two quick turns, vader can't. Rey and lando have nowhere near the health of vader and cant recover 30% of every turn like vader under emperor lead, but she will make sure someone you need dead is dead and cannot make a move against you, which is bigger for me than the damage vader can do throwing out his laser sword 2 or 3 times a battle. The beginning of battles is the most important, getting someone dead before that character can dismantle your team.
I understand you can build around him and use other toons and make it maybe 6 dots but I think you would then probably be changing meta teams to the point where meta teams with or without palpatine would just be better anyway
This is not the point of my post, the point is to talk about whether or not he is actually worth it at the top level of arena, but I might as well make a suggestion as this post is huge. Not sure if this is the best suggestion and its just one i'm throwing out there, but give him a force choke. I mean vader just has to have a choke. Maybe it takes away 50%-75%of an enemy's HPP. Call it something like dark lord's mercy, because he lets them go before they die like he did when tarkin told him to stop. Between emperor's shock and vader's choke double taunt meta's defeat would be inevitable.
I want to take him to gear 10 to use with emp, but dont know if hes really actually worth it. I want it to be worth it and would like advice on this.
I have 2 problems with him:
1. He is still useless on his own. He works well with palpatine which is cool but lets not act for a second like vader wouldnt be a boss in any possible battle on his own. Its vader, everyone should gear him and star him and be excited about him regardless. The fact that you can only have him at 5* for a while and 6* for a long time should make you eager to upgrade him more. He is completely dependent on the emperor right now and so you cant just throw vader in your team,which i think is a shame. I will have 7* emperor by the end of the event before you all start...
2. This is up for debate - right now, Even with Palp, i think there are others you can get to put in a palpy team who quite simply still do more damage per second. And vader's only role is dps, so if others do more damage, then there is no reason to put him in other than for fun. His ability block basic is good. That basic does very little damage though, and he is slower than other dps. So you are waiting a while for hime to get culling blade back without him doing any damage. So all he really does is toss out his saber at the start, and then not for a while. That is his only damage, and its on a 4 turn cooldown assuming you cant kill someone with his saber throw.
so it all comes down to how powerful is his saber throw? This obviously depends on how many debuffs. It would be very helpful to know some numbers for a maxed (6*) vader pre-mods.
Just to know how much he hits for and crits for with 3 debuffs, 4, 5 so we can know how good his only move actually is, and how much better he could be with supporting characters. As it stands this is his one move before the bulk of the fight is over, and as far as i can tell, a non crit with 3 debuffs it looks like around 11k with 3 debuffs for a non crit.
These are estimations but his natural crit rating looks around 25%. I have thought of getting his crit chance to 50% or so through mods, and saving some space for crit damage. with MAXED mods that would make around 22k crit, for his only move in the whole game, and that's only a 50% chance. If you don't crit, i dont think youre doing significant enough damage to justify a spot in the team. Before you get the best possible mods you can probably only crit about 18k. his aoe DOTs will do some more but you wont see more damage from him for a while.
In my opinion thats not enough for our little dark lord of sith. I am willing to be corrected here, nay i hope to be corrected so i can use vader, but it doesnt seem like he has enough damage to really be better than other options, even when he is optimised under palpatine. Lando for example has almost the same speed and can do 50k every turn after his first. Vader's initial burst of damage doesnt have the same effect as what land will do to you over time, nor is the initial burst as big as rey's, who can also do constant damage at a far higher speed. Rey can ensure someone is dead after two quick turns, vader can't. Rey and lando have nowhere near the health of vader and cant recover 30% of every turn like vader under emperor lead, but she will make sure someone you need dead is dead and cannot make a move against you, which is bigger for me than the damage vader can do throwing out his laser sword 2 or 3 times a battle. The beginning of battles is the most important, getting someone dead before that character can dismantle your team.
I understand you can build around him and use other toons and make it maybe 6 dots but I think you would then probably be changing meta teams to the point where meta teams with or without palpatine would just be better anyway
This is not the point of my post, the point is to talk about whether or not he is actually worth it at the top level of arena, but I might as well make a suggestion as this post is huge. Not sure if this is the best suggestion and its just one i'm throwing out there, but give him a force choke. I mean vader just has to have a choke. Maybe it takes away 50%-75%of an enemy's HPP. Call it something like dark lord's mercy, because he lets them go before they die like he did when tarkin told him to stop. Between emperor's shock and vader's choke double taunt meta's defeat would be inevitable.
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Replies
He just needs a little more damage in his basic and he will be great.
The Palp/Vader combo is such a great move I the right direction.
How easy or hard it is to get a character should have a minor effect, if any, on how strong they are. That has a detrimental effect on the game as a whole because as a new player you're going to have to grind those characters out in order to be competetive, such as Yoda, Greivous, Vader, or Palpatine. These characters should be rewards for natural progression (Develop enough Jedi, earn Yoda; develop enough Empire, get Palpatine; play the game long enough get Vader; play it even longer, get Greivous) instead of being things you have to sit down and grind out.
Vader is fine. I have been using him in arena for months. His culling blade is especially useful for avoiding RG taunts. He can one shot full health toons easily.
Your point about new players being "behind the curve" is irrelevant. New players start on new shards with other new players. They will all be at the same level to start, so none will have the advantage of getting Yoda or Grievous or Palpatine before the others.
He just needs a little more basic damage if anything
@Bulldog1205 I thought someone might bring that up and I sort of know what you mean. The ability block is probably quite useful at times. That debuff does add some utility and 20 TM most turns, but I'd still say his main role is to stick around and do damage, which I think he does well, but just not as well as others, and the way that characters like rey can do more damage more quickly and kill someone quickly still outweighs what vader can do in an arena Battle.
as for qui-gon I would say there are a lot of other counters to that so it doesn't matter much, just get anyone to have any buff before his turn and he'll dispel it. I just think vader's ability block is probly useful at times
He shouldn't be fine, he's vader he should be really strong. He's one of the coolest movie characters ever and that's not even a debate, let alone the best Star Wars character. It's vader of course he should be amazing.
Are you near the top of arena? How much does culling blade do with how many debuffs? I really want to use him but think there are probly better options
it's star wars according to eacg, a parallel universe where a nameless random royal guard is the best and most used tank
Honestly what are you....... Different characters have different uses and some are better than others. In a Star Wars game, obviously Darth vader should be one of the very good characters. Because he is Darth vader. I don't know how I can explain that more clearly. He should be amazing because he's iconic in films.
I also said that obviously he shouldn't be game-breaking before. Especially since everyone has him. I don't know why you are assuming I think he should be game-breaking. I'm using the term OP colloquially if that is what is confusing you guys.
He needs a buff. Geonosian Spy a generic character has a much better special and unique than Vader and can easily one shot Vader and not miss.
Maybe not a buff since with the right team he's pretty **** good, but more likely they'll have an event with a lot of vader shards as a reward
The fact you can force choke and immediately sabre throw after makes Vader a no brainer for any emperor led squad.
Most people haven't played with or against a seven star Vader - until you have, you can have no basis for saying he needs any buffing.
@CaptainRex this thread is supposed to be debating if he is good or not. And how many vaders have you seen at the top of your shard? I've never seen one and still not seen one yet since palpatine's event. I'm sure others have. Whether he's good or not is currently up for debate seeing as he is not common at the top of arena yet thus not one of the best toons. There are so many other toons at the top of arena and DARTH VADER should be competing with them in a Star Wars game. He is not good enough until he is at the top of arena shards.
@Rogan_Ban84 @TerraArran This is making me not want to gear him up. If he's still not good enough then they have to make him arena worthy somehow soon. I like the idea of a really good unique. I'd love him to have one more ability though.
Well, they are the Emperor's guards. Sure they never did anything in the movies, but I'd guess they earned that job being pretty good fighters.
I'd lower the cooldowns of both Force Crush and Culling Blade by 1. I'd give Force Crush 15% more damage. I'd raise his base offense. I'd tweak his leader to be a more obvious dark side variant to Always on the Offensive, ie. needs more utility than simply Offense bonus to Empire.
Anakin is much scarier. Many heroes are much scarier. Vader, as iconic as he is, deserves to be top tier.
The fact that he is not in arena simply means he is not one of the best toons. Add to that the fact that he is not useful in any current game mode without the emperor.
The fact he can for he choke then saber throw doesn't make him a no-brainer. He has to do enough damage from his saber throw to be worth it in arena.
@Mynd completely agree.
I like those suggestions. And i think he will be buffed sometime, hopefully soon. The emperor was obviously supposed to be a big buff for him though, and he could still not be good enough. Wouldn't you like to see him have another ability?
Vader at 6 stars is comparable to many other toons but not crazy strong. At 7 stars he will be a very good attacker with tonnes of hp. And being able to aoe and follow up with an attack that can do upwards of 20k damage after palp has already opened with his stun and any other debuffs that are landed before his turn - yeah that's a total no brainer. A character that regains 10k+ health on aoe with palp lead is also a no brainer.
Just because 6 star Vader is all you have, it doesn't mean he should be great at that level. If that were the case, he'd be crazy OP at 7 stars. Stop being so short sighted. They are adding more achievements all the time and you'll start seeing 7 star vaders all the time soon enough.
Also yeah, guy on my February shard was 4th today with palp and Vader.
*edit* actually he's currently 2nd and doesn't even have all palp's abilities at 7 let alone maxed.