Though I dislike the removal of old retreat features, I agree, the new GW does require you to think much much more about what squad you're bringing into the battle.
Grown up...so if one finds the new design stupid they aren't a grown up? That's rich. I guess I am just a 37 year old child!
The retreat option made sense since in a real life battle, you could retreat or regroup and dead people come back to life. Sure, having effects drop and the turn meter restarted was a bug but that couldn't have been fixed on its own?
If anything, the new style is more "cheese" since you could play out a battle, see your characters are getting beat and then retreat and restart with different characters. It's like the force close built into the game.
It's Robert Downey's Sherlock Holme's, Star Wars style.
I just know half of you talk to yourselves as you replay levels you lost, going play-by-play because the dodge/attack order is predetermined for the AI.
Though I dislike the removal of old retreat features, I agree, the new GW does require you to think much much more about what squad you're bringing into the battle.
This doesn't really make much sense to me. Maybe it's because I -always- thought about bringing the best comp.
Previously if I was facing a droid team I could bring in my lvl 53 Datcha as lead even if they were level 60. Chances were pretty good he was going to get killed but it allowed me to leverage his ability for a couple rounds in a single match. I was willing to sacrifice some healing (Lumi is my normal lead) and even some offense to play with the anti-droid style. I didn't use force close so I knew I would likely suffer a little more HP loss and likely lose Datcha but if he could just survive a round or two as lead I could retreat and possibly save him for a later match against a team with Chewy or Bariss where I could heal him up again and try again if there was a later droid team.
Now I have no ability to use him. He's going to die against a level 60 (soon 70) droid team unless I level him up. Because I can't retreat mid battle and sub him out there's no possibility of me healing him up at a later time if he survives a round or two. He has to die.
So I'm never going to use him.
The retreat function previously acted exactly like a timeout in a basketball game. You took a timeout and it would both cool off hot players (on both teams) and give everyone a little breather. If you had injured or exhausted guys you could sub them in for fresh ones who might not be starters but could provide similar play (or even a bit of a twist) while they got back their focus.
In 'garbage time' you could bring in guys who just needed a little bit of work or healing (unlike basketball your doctors are on the floor with the injured guys). But you weren't always lucky enough to get garbage time.
Now it just acts like a cheap get-out-of-jail free card where you screw up and restart from scratch.
I think it's funny that the devs have a vision for the game and then implement their vision (being the "reload saved game" vision) and then we complain that we like the old way they did which obviously was not thought through (hence the reason for the change).
The old way was very thought through. It's obvious they did a fair amount of development to be able to know the state of the characters when retreat occurred. They maintain the history of the characters powers and health.
The vision, as OP noted, was a timeout in a basketball game where you could sub guys in for injured or 'tired' players.
The problem was not the retreat function. It was that people were using both the retreat function and the force close to effectively guarantee a winning GW. Since they could not do anything about the force close without a major change in the structure of the code in game they decided to just remove the entire retreat mode from the game.
Lol...a "grown-up" telling me he was using auto against all purple 60s AI.... this is pure ****, as it's a sure way to lose GW - as (pre-patch) all it took were 2 unlucky crits and a core member of your team is dead...
The problem was not the retreat function. It was that people were using both the retreat function and the force close to effectively guarantee a winning GW. Since they could not do anything about the force close without a major change in the structure of the code in game they decided to just remove the entire retreat mode from the game.
In other words, despite a 4-week lapse between updates, and despite making millions of dollars in revenues (this is a top-grossing game) they took the easy way out and in the process ruined the only interesting thing there was to do in this game for those of us who were playing GW the way it was meant to be played.
New GW: impossible for lower-level players, and a lame joke for higher-level players. No risk of death = no challenge.
This is how it's supposed to be.... Why would you want something so easy a free to play player can clear it just as much as a pay to play player can? You don't see free to play players finishing in the top 5 of arena(in a real server) do you?
Don't answer that, I fear the repetition of you guys answer will surface.
Dodging old Ben's debuffs, or chewys taunt so you can take less damage or preserve cooldowns is not strategy, and straight up lazy.
Leveling more toons so you can bring the right team is strategy and good preparation. the suicide team strategy still works if you guys didn't notice only difference is those level ones Have to actually go through with the suicide.
GW is a gauntlet and not everyone with a lumi and Barriss should be able to clear all 12 every day..
467-325-146
Pretty good collection of characters so far and GROWING
They simply made GW less strategic. You can argue if it is easier or more difficult. But less strategy means less fun. If you are an easy man who likes to have exactly one option to play a fight. Well congrats you have it now.
But remember GW now has the same strategic options than EVERY other mode in this game.
- pick a team and fight till you or your enemy is dead
Also less strategy means that it is harder for players with weaker squads to get more out of it. This will drive the game more into a p2w direction.
- Only an immature person would scream "I am a grown up!" because his/her words and actions do not convey maturity
- Even more hilarious is someone applauding that word only because this "grown up" is in agreement with his view. A true grown up should be able to appreciate different opinions and not force his view onto others. What a sad comedy show
- I struggle to see how the official implementation of force close into GW makes the game more "fun." I guess some people call this more "fun" because a) they don't need to restart the game whenever they lose an hero or b) they love load-reload-reload more-reload as you are not there yet-reload till the game gives you the optimal output
Agreed. I found the title to be click bait and nothing more.
I don't really *like* the new GW, but the sky isn't falling either. I would occasionally force close if something outrageous happened and the rng hated me. I don't understand people acting like this makes GW something only P2W players can beat though, I've beaten it twice using only f2p players with the exception of dooku (who I guess could be called a f2p character now that he can be farmed)
GW is no longer fun or exciting and you no longer have to think your way though it, right now it is a JOB and a boring one at that, which takes ALOT OF time for very little reward....new players are pretty much hosed in all of this yet nobody seems to give a rats BLEEP.
Leveling more toons so you can bring the right team is strategy and good preparation.
There is no need for more toons. Because you can't swap, you are better off just putting in the same 5 guys and making sure you use lots of heals.
Boring.
Try GW with Dakka in the final battle. Every time I killed her she revived. Three times over. 10% revive chance my ***. She brought back every defeated ally. Made the final battle downright impossible.
I can accept a challenge, but this was a no win battle.
It does seem like it was an odd change as it is pretty easy now (had no problem completing it this morn) given all they did was put in the force close exploit and it takes away some of the fun of subbing in guys even if this means it is even easier to get good stuff form the chests.
You're just finding ways to complain I'm starting to notice qelter, for all of those counter responses, you are just proving my point tbh.
If old Ben is ineffective for you now that just means you are going out of your way to crowd control him which is how it's supposed to be. Not "let him do whatever then leave and come back."
467-325-146
Pretty good collection of characters so far and GROWING
The fact that you can retreat and reset the battle allows you a ton of freedom and singular perspective to experiment with different teams. Yesterday I found myself experimenting with team combos -- that I knew would lose -- just to pull out at the end and reset. By doing that a bunch I was able to find the team combo that actually worked. I never would have been able to do that under the old format. I would have used the same 5 guys I always used, lost 2 of them, and then lost GW 2-3 rounds later. Instead I used a total of 8 guys and cruised to victory. Did this both yesterday and today.
It's not harder if you look at it that way. It's trying to make you a better player. In a lot of ways I think it's easier now.
When I first noticed the change I was enraged, it has been left out of patch notes and majorly affects gameplay. Today I've cleared my 2nd 12/12 after the retreat update as a nearly F2P (only the initial doku pack) and I must say that I'm finally HAVING FUN. Battles DO get harder when you proceed since you start loosing toons. Before the update it was just autoing 'till 8, then retreating when you get stun, debuff, the enemy gets buffed. I laughed at very strong characters such as old ben or poggle because I could just retreat and gg.
Now it feels more like playing chess, I have some pieces and I must choose who to sacrifice for the greater good. Before, 12/12 was just a matter of time, now it finally requires some thought.
I am playing since one week after hard release and as almost F2P, so I'd say that 12/12 is still pretty doable even for F2P. My only concern is that given the insulting amount of QQ they make it easier soon enough..
Grown up...so if one finds the new design stupid they aren't a grown up? That's rich. I guess I am just a 37 year old child!
The retreat option made sense since in a real life battle, you could retreat or regroup and dead people come back to life. Sure, having effects drop and the turn meter restarted was a bug but that couldn't have been fixed on its own?
If anything, the new style is more "cheese" since you could play out a battle, see your characters are getting beat and then retreat and restart with different characters. It's like the force close built into the game.
It's Robert Downey's Sherlock Holme's, Star Wars style.
I just know half of you talk to yourselves as you replay levels you lost, going play-by-play because the dodge/attack order is predetermined for the AI.
How did it make it easier? Now it is based on luck instead of strategy, I was finally doing well and starting to complete gw after having failed it plenty of times. Unless you are p2w or have a deep bench then I think it will be pretty difficult. When you're facing multiple teams 4+ levels above you in a row its just really frustrating and takes up a lot of time retreating and trying to get rgn in your favor. Very little thought put into it now and you just have to hope you hit for crits.
The whole point of this update was to do a few things....
Cater to the base of players looking for new content-Unfortunately, they didn't fix/add anything that I was interested in seeing added/fixed.
Cater to the players who didn't like the retreat option-Usually, it was P2W players complaining about this because it allowed free teams to compete with them more easily. Now you have to build a large squad in order to complete GW so the elite players now have a more established advantage here.
The saddest part about the whole thing to me is that the writing is on the wall guys and you need to recognize it. As time passes, my belief is that in EA's infinite wisdom, it's the 1% of whale players that are the customers they made this game for clearly. The other free and low spending 99% were brought in as cannon fodder for those 1% to be entertained with. As time passes and EA meets their financial targets, their need or use for the free player will lessen and the way they'll scare you off is to force you to either pay or move on because playing the free way you are used to will eventually get almost impossible unless you started from Day 1 and had the opportunity to keep up, maybe.
The rubber is meeting the road. My advice for the average player is, unless you have a large amount of money to dump into this game, your life within the game will slowly become more difficult and tedious until you are eventually forced to step away because you are stuck at a point where the money has to be spent to even compete and the level of money you'll have to spend to stay relevant will be beyond your budget.
I don't think it's right but I guess EA does and we'll need to each handle that dilemma as we each see fit, but it still saddens me because this will certainly affect the shelf life of a game that could have gone on for years longer than it will. I really wanted this game to succeed and I saw the potential of what it could be, too bad EA doesn't see through my eyes......
I am a proud force closer. I always felt cheap using the old Retreat system though. This change made me very happy.
I'm admittedly a little taken aback by all the rage on the forum. The change definitely made it so you need to think a little bit more. Spend a little more time, just as you said. But quite a few players are actually acting like this killed the game for them. I just can't understand how the reaction is proportionate to the change implemented.
I suppose we all just feel differently about the game. Some feel strongly about it, obviously.
I do believe that in a week from now, the doomsday heralds will have quieted down a little and hopefully adapted. The new system has strengths and weaknesses just like the old one had.
Try facing a final team with Dakka. She's so over buffed she self revives every time I defeat her and revives any defeated ally on a heal. 10% revive chance on defeat my ***.
I can accept a challenge, but this is an impossible no win scenario.
I lol'd. Top 1%? Try just 1%. I can promise you there are plenty of people who CAN afford to spend whale amounts of cash on this game but choose not to because they have common sense. Some people simply have better resistance to impulse buys and recognize this for what it is....a mobile game.
In the end of the day at this pace, all that will remain are the 1% when they close up shop. It'll be like being a King with no kingdom.....
Replies
It's Robert Downey's Sherlock Holme's, Star Wars style.
I just know half of you talk to yourselves as you replay levels you lost, going play-by-play because the dodge/attack order is predetermined for the AI.
- Barriss 4*7
- Lumi 7*7
- JC 6*8
- Sid 7*7
& switch between Dooku 4*7, Talia 6*7 & CT 4*7This doesn't really make much sense to me. Maybe it's because I -always- thought about bringing the best comp.
Previously if I was facing a droid team I could bring in my lvl 53 Datcha as lead even if they were level 60. Chances were pretty good he was going to get killed but it allowed me to leverage his ability for a couple rounds in a single match. I was willing to sacrifice some healing (Lumi is my normal lead) and even some offense to play with the anti-droid style. I didn't use force close so I knew I would likely suffer a little more HP loss and likely lose Datcha but if he could just survive a round or two as lead I could retreat and possibly save him for a later match against a team with Chewy or Bariss where I could heal him up again and try again if there was a later droid team.
Now I have no ability to use him. He's going to die against a level 60 (soon 70) droid team unless I level him up. Because I can't retreat mid battle and sub him out there's no possibility of me healing him up at a later time if he survives a round or two. He has to die.
So I'm never going to use him.
The retreat function previously acted exactly like a timeout in a basketball game. You took a timeout and it would both cool off hot players (on both teams) and give everyone a little breather. If you had injured or exhausted guys you could sub them in for fresh ones who might not be starters but could provide similar play (or even a bit of a twist) while they got back their focus.
In 'garbage time' you could bring in guys who just needed a little bit of work or healing (unlike basketball your doctors are on the floor with the injured guys). But you weren't always lucky enough to get garbage time.
Now it just acts like a cheap get-out-of-jail free card where you screw up and restart from scratch.
The old way was very thought through. It's obvious they did a fair amount of development to be able to know the state of the characters when retreat occurred. They maintain the history of the characters powers and health.
The vision, as OP noted, was a timeout in a basketball game where you could sub guys in for injured or 'tired' players.
The problem was not the retreat function. It was that people were using both the retreat function and the force close to effectively guarantee a winning GW. Since they could not do anything about the force close without a major change in the structure of the code in game they decided to just remove the entire retreat mode from the game.
In other words, despite a 4-week lapse between updates, and despite making millions of dollars in revenues (this is a top-grossing game) they took the easy way out and in the process ruined the only interesting thing there was to do in this game for those of us who were playing GW the way it was meant to be played.
New GW: impossible for lower-level players, and a lame joke for higher-level players. No risk of death = no challenge.
Don't answer that, I fear the repetition of you guys answer will surface.
Dodging old Ben's debuffs, or chewys taunt so you can take less damage or preserve cooldowns is not strategy, and straight up lazy.
Leveling more toons so you can bring the right team is strategy and good preparation. the suicide team strategy still works if you guys didn't notice only difference is those level ones Have to actually go through with the suicide.
GW is a gauntlet and not everyone with a lumi and Barriss should be able to clear all 12 every day..
Pretty good collection of characters so far and GROWING
But remember GW now has the same strategic options than EVERY other mode in this game.
- pick a team and fight till you or your enemy is dead
Also less strategy means that it is harder for players with weaker squads to get more out of it. This will drive the game more into a p2w direction.
Agreed. I found the title to be click bait and nothing more.
Boring.
I can accept a challenge, but this was a no win battle.
If old Ben is ineffective for you now that just means you are going out of your way to crowd control him which is how it's supposed to be. Not "let him do whatever then leave and come back."
Pretty good collection of characters so far and GROWING
The fact that you can retreat and reset the battle allows you a ton of freedom and singular perspective to experiment with different teams. Yesterday I found myself experimenting with team combos -- that I knew would lose -- just to pull out at the end and reset. By doing that a bunch I was able to find the team combo that actually worked. I never would have been able to do that under the old format. I would have used the same 5 guys I always used, lost 2 of them, and then lost GW 2-3 rounds later. Instead I used a total of 8 guys and cruised to victory. Did this both yesterday and today.
It's not harder if you look at it that way. It's trying to make you a better player. In a lot of ways I think it's easier now.
(the only downside is it takes more time)
/2cents
Now it feels more like playing chess, I have some pieces and I must choose who to sacrifice for the greater good. Before, 12/12 was just a matter of time, now it finally requires some thought.
I am playing since one week after hard release and as almost F2P, so I'd say that 12/12 is still pretty doable even for F2P. My only concern is that given the insulting amount of QQ they make it easier soon enough..
More like Egde of tomorrow
- Cater to the base of players looking for new content-Unfortunately, they didn't fix/add anything that I was interested in seeing added/fixed.
- Cater to the players who didn't like the retreat option-Usually, it was P2W players complaining about this because it allowed free teams to compete with them more easily. Now you have to build a large squad in order to complete GW so the elite players now have a more established advantage here.
The saddest part about the whole thing to me is that the writing is on the wall guys and you need to recognize it. As time passes, my belief is that in EA's infinite wisdom, it's the 1% of whale players that are the customers they made this game for clearly. The other free and low spending 99% were brought in as cannon fodder for those 1% to be entertained with. As time passes and EA meets their financial targets, their need or use for the free player will lessen and the way they'll scare you off is to force you to either pay or move on because playing the free way you are used to will eventually get almost impossible unless you started from Day 1 and had the opportunity to keep up, maybe.The rubber is meeting the road. My advice for the average player is, unless you have a large amount of money to dump into this game, your life within the game will slowly become more difficult and tedious until you are eventually forced to step away because you are stuck at a point where the money has to be spent to even compete and the level of money you'll have to spend to stay relevant will be beyond your budget.
I don't think it's right but I guess EA does and we'll need to each handle that dilemma as we each see fit, but it still saddens me because this will certainly affect the shelf life of a game that could have gone on for years longer than it will. I really wanted this game to succeed and I saw the potential of what it could be, too bad EA doesn't see through my eyes......
I'm admittedly a little taken aback by all the rage on the forum. The change definitely made it so you need to think a little bit more. Spend a little more time, just as you said. But quite a few players are actually acting like this killed the game for them. I just can't understand how the reaction is proportionate to the change implemented.
I suppose we all just feel differently about the game. Some feel strongly about it, obviously.
I do believe that in a week from now, the doomsday heralds will have quieted down a little and hopefully adapted. The new system has strengths and weaknesses just like the old one had.
I can accept a challenge, but this is an impossible no win scenario.
In the end of the day at this pace, all that will remain are the 1% when they close up shop. It'll be like being a King with no kingdom.....