Player Created Galactic War posts - MERGED HERE

Replies

  • Barrok wrote: »
    The game predetermines the moves. If you start a match with the same 5 players in the same 5 slots, and you make the same moves, they will play out exactly the same right down to the damage.

    Not true. Please stop.

    I have found this to be true as well. Before the update when you use force close and restart the battle, everything went down exactly as before. There have been multiple threads about this with players trying to explain it (prerolled RNG and more theories). But from my experience this happens just like Barrok says.
  • Retreat completely resets the entire battle. Your side and theirs. It is exactly like force close now.

    I've tested it 10+ times in GW since the update.

    It's a bit harder but I still got through it. I have faith in you guys.

    Thanks. It's back to normal for me. Although I very occasionally used retreat (which feels extremely cheap), I liked passing the entire battle clean, no bit using 40 chars per battle in a chess where you can add queens and rooks any time you want.

  • Brownie
    282 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    d3gauss wrote: »
    Barrok wrote: »
    The game predetermines the moves. If you start a match with the same 5 players in the same 5 slots, and you make the same moves, they will play out exactly the same right down to the damage.

    Not true. Please stop.

    You should test it, it is true. If you retreat the match will play or the exact same way if you don't change your team and you do the exact same moves. Exact same way.

    I agree. I just did this trying to figure out the new retreat system. The AI will attack in the EXACT same manner every time. The stuns will occur the exact same way. The damage will be the same.

    You would be better offer removing the Force Close option and bringing back the original retreat button.
  • Barrok wrote: »
    The game predetermines the moves. If you start a match with the same 5 players in the same 5 slots, and you make the same moves, they will play out exactly the same right down to the damage.

    Not true. Please stop.

    It is 100% true. I just retested it. Ask your testers to test this. How many times you start, if enemy sid dodged an attack it will keep on dodging on 20 restarts. If enemy doku stuns it will stun on new restart. The function for randomness if not being called I guess.

    Anyways thanks for answering our doubts.
  • Reposting from another thread:

    Without the tactical retreat, the AI has a huge advantage unless you have a deep bench. I noticed I had to bench my Kylo because he was low on health and I would be fighting with a weakened squad as I won't be able to bring in a substitute in case he dies before I can heal him up. And he did, lol, 3 times before getting benched. The AI has a full strength squad while mine is half spent, special attacks recharging and can't take anyone low on health as I won't be able to sub. Basically, if your toons are low on health, they're already dead and cannot be taken in.

    That said, finished the war with 2 casualties, Dooku dead, Kylo as good as dead. Daaka's and Finn's stuns carried me halfway and Lumi the rest. Got much easier opponents compared to last few matches that I remember.

    Despite my deeper bench, apart from my A squad, none of them have any proper synergy. And without being able to sub toons, I don't see how I'll even reach halfway if I get my regular opponents, 7 starred, purple gear, lvl 60 synergised squads from the 3rd to 4th matches onwards. My A squad is not all 7 starred.

    @elFlaco, lol, 4 starred toons won't last one match if you get my usual opponents in GW.
  • Nosnibor wrote: »
    It'll soon get changed back when they realise they're losing money. All these high and mighty "I don't use retreat because it's cheating" players probably don't put a penny into the game. Those who do should speak with their wallets and see who the devs agree with then.

    The game is supposed to be played without putting a penny into it. Theoretically that is what "free to play" means. I've put just a little money in it but I don't call it cheating, just exploiting something that wasn't meant to be done.

    GW is not like regular battles. GW is all about strategy use the retreat button to your advantage. Unless you have plenty of characters level up. I have completed GW 5 times now and I wouldn't done it without the retreat button. Its there for a reason I don't think its consider cheating and if your are a "free to play player" like me you'll definitely need it. Good luck.
  • Imo they chose the easy way out since there is no way they can control when person force closes an app on their device.

    If they were able to work up a way to maintain buffs and debuffs between fights and retreats while still keeping the old retreat function as it did before that would be way more fair. Let chewie keep his taunt up if it means I can bring in a different character when one of mine is about to die.

    Please consider maintaining buffs and debuffs throughout the war and as a way to level things out instead of this change that adds nothing fun and merely forces people to spread their resources thin in an effort to progress in GW.

  • Good job @CG_AaronNemoyten on the change. The players here dont understand that easy things (instant gratification) quickly become boring things. Until now, GW has just been a means to an end... gain shards. I remember when leveling up how challenging GW was and it was the most fun part of the game.

    Id recommend avoiding engaging the complainers. They are relentless with their crying on this forum. Just state the facts and leave it there. In a day or so they will all find something else to complain about.
    "There is no 'try'." - Master Yoda
  • Barrok
    1753 posts Member
    Barrok wrote: »
    The game predetermines the moves. If you start a match with the same 5 players in the same 5 slots, and you make the same moves, they will play out exactly the same right down to the damage.

    Not true. Please stop.

    I expect an apology if you prove what I said to be true :)
  • SG6
    7 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Why are you killing your game, the only nice and funny mode now is frustrating and unenjoyable. How am I supposed to clear it? I can win one tough game. Maybe two. That's it cause I will end without tools. Then the AI buff.. It is lame, enemy team goes faster, crits more, and as stated there is almost no really rng, if you go with the same team vs same opponent the same things will happen turn by turn. Why? I loved the game till now, since.that update I don't know what to think, I just don't like it at all.. if i win at least heal our survivors and reset CD's or it will become unplayable. I want to like it, more challenge is OK, but not like that... And yet, no patch notes... :/ This is terrible, I am concerned about this game's future :sweat:
  • Nicks075 wrote: »
    Retreat still works it just resets the match, everyone is back to full health or whatever health you had when you started the match.
    Its pretty much is the same as result as force closing. I for one think it was a good idea, if a match doesnt go your, retreat and start again fresh. I lkke it. Plus no more complaints of force closing being cheating.
    Nicks075 wrote: »
    Retreat still works it just resets the match, everyone is back to full health or whatever health you had when you started the match.
    Its pretty much is the same as result as force closing. I for one think it was a good idea, if a match doesnt go your, retreat and start again fresh. I lkke it. Plus no more complaints of force closing being cheating.

    If this is true, how is that making GW more of a Challenge? It makes it even easier since now you can keep treating till RNG favours you lol... Dooku didn't double Stun? Retreat till he does, Daka didn't revive? Retreat till she does lol...

    LOL THATS TRUE UNTIL RNG FAVOR YOU..LOL

  • Qeltar wrote: »
    d3gauss wrote: »
    Barrok wrote: »
    The game predetermines the moves. If you start a match with the same 5 players in the same 5 slots, and you make the same moves, they will play out exactly the same right down to the damage.

    Not true. Please stop.

    You should test it, it is true. If you retreat the match will play or the exact same way if you don't change your team and you do the exact same moves. Exact same way.

    It's not true, the game just uses some sort of pre-rolling scheme, so it is random, but the numbers are assigned to different things depending on what you do.

    @CG_AaronNemoyten could you confirm this? It would make it a lot easier for people like me who have been trying for a long time to explain that the game is not predetermined (ask Jesse, I've been doing this for weeks...)

    If it pre rolls, and the AI goes first....then logically at the very least that first move is pre determined.
  • Hey everyone,

    I'm REALLY sorry that the GW Retreat change went live without any announcement.

    The explanation for how that happened is embarrassing - we assembled patch notes from a list of data changes, but the GW Retreat change was a server change. Server releases are always handled separately from data releases from a technical perspective, but sometimes they happen to occur on the same day. We are going to have a meeting to discuss how we can GUARANTEE that important server change with player-facing consequences are not released without accompanying patch notes again.

    I wrote something to add to the patch notes, but I'm going to let Jesse edit his own post in a few minutes, so until then here's the explanation:

    The functionality of Retreat has been changed so that it behaves the same as force-quitting the app. While we understand that many players relied on Retreating as part of their strategy, ultimately there were two different ways to leave a battle that didn’t behave the same way (Retreating, and force-quitting the app). We decided that in order to keep the experience fair and consistent, we would change the behavior of Retreat to work the same as force-quitting.

    -Aaron

    This is a terrible change that makes the gap even bigger on P2P and F2P. I've spent 4 digits on this game, only because I enjoyed GW with the retreat so I could in battles test multiple scenarios and such. Players with 1 team or not strong toons are screwed by this. I face Max LVL 60's by fight 3 all they way until the end and retreat was a huge help for resetting cooldowns so I had healers ready to go since I was facing 9 strait max level purple gear 6-7* teams in a row that started with fresh cooldowns, and full health. You removing retreat was just plain terrible. You guys got a lot of money from me, would have gotten a lot more, but I for 1 will not spend another cent since this change. You made it terrible for collectors like me, and F2P.
  • Not to **** of people but maybe... just maybe. Gw wasn't supposed to be easily beaten by everyone? If that was the point why not just give you all the rewards and move along. This while the only time I should loose ever period is on defense in arena attitude needs to just go away. I'm sorry not winning 100% all the time isn't fun to yall.
  • Guys this is expansion

    Galaxy of Retreating Heroes

    May the RnG force be with you
  • Barrok wrote: »
    The game predetermines the moves. If you start a match with the same 5 players in the same 5 slots, and you make the same moves, they will play out exactly the same right down to the damage.

    Not true. Please stop.

    Not doubting what you're saying, but I too have tested this many times. In the past if I retreated a match and did nothing different - didn't change / move players and attacked in the same order - everything would happen identically. Ever stun, every bonus attack, every resisted skill - everything. Again - not saying you're not being truthful with it, or that this is the intended function, but after a couple months of GW battles it happened every time - unless I would waited at least 5-10 minutes before re-enterint the match. However, if I changed the order of my team RNG would be different. Also - changing the order of my team, or especially if I changed out one of my characters, would often result in a slightly different turn order for the opposing team as well - which always confused me since turn order should be by speed alone, not any RNG. Some things would never change - Dooku going first for example, and often Sidious next..but there are times when IG-86 would take his turn before Poggle for some reason, or Luke would take his turn much earlier than his speed alone should do.
  • exshot04 wrote: »
    Qeltar wrote: »
    Hey everyone,

    I'm REALLY sorry that the GW Retreat change went live without any announcement.

    The explanation for how that happened is embarrassing - we assembled patch notes from a list of data changes, but the GW Retreat change was a server change. Server releases are always handled separately from data releases from a technical perspective, but sometimes they happen to occur on the same day. We are going to have a meeting to discuss how we can GUARANTEE that important server change with player-facing consequences are not released without accompanying patch notes again.

    I wrote something to add to the patch notes, but I'm going to let Jesse edit his own post in a few minutes, so until then here's the explanation:

    The functionality of Retreat has been changed so that it behaves the same as force-quitting the app. While we understand that many players relied on Retreating as part of their strategy, ultimately there were two different ways to leave a battle that didn’t behave the same way (Retreating, and force-quitting the app). We decided that in order to keep the experience fair and consistent, we would change the behavior of Retreat to work the same as force-quitting.

    -Aaron

    The response and explanation are appreciated.

    Destroying the ONLY aspect of this game that required actual strategy is baffling and EXTREMELY disappointing.

    It's a war of attrition. Retreat and substituting in new characters is a strategy for winning war. You've just removed a big part of the strategy of this mode.

    Basically, there were two ways to deal with a fight going south: one was complete cheese (force-quitting) and the other some people disliked but was seen as at least a valid way of using tactics to win. Retreat was also a way to manage resources by swapping in characters. You removed the tactical option and basically legitimized the cheese option.

    I'm absolutely floored by this. Amazing.

    @CG_AaronNemoyten It's a strategy that majority of the people were using to improve there teams. Now with this gone i'm pretty sure certain amount of people will be able to still clear and the people who don't will quit. It was fun while it lasted.

    I agree. I'll cut my losses on the over a grand invested. This change was just bad and brutal and shows they only care about a very small % of players. Not even just P2P because I'm P2P but I P2P not P2W so this change will even hinder me who has several teams go through. Ruined the fun strategy part of it. Very disappointed CUSTOMER.
  • @CG_AaronNemoyten the problem with treating retreat the same as force quitting is that retreat actually had strategic benefit...for example, you could retreat toward the end of the battle and come back in with just one or two characters whose cooldowns you wanted to burn through while taking out the last opponent. A far, far, far better and more strategic approach would have been to institute a numerical limit on retreats. It would have forced players to make choices about when debuffs were worth getting rid of, when toons were worth subbing in/out. This is just a horribly blunt solution.

    I say all of this as someone with 12 purple geared level 60 characters who regularly faces very challenging GW battles starting at the 5th battle.

    I think in light of this change to retreat, you really need to revisit how matches are made in GW. I think the completion rate is going to plummet as a result of this.
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    d3gauss wrote: »
    If it pre rolls, and the AI goes first....then logically at the very least that first move is pre determined.

    This isn't always true either. If you change team composition, who goes first can change.
    Also, to those saying they had to do this because they couldn't eliminate force-closes: that is not true. They could have done so with a minimal amount of effort.
    This is a TERRIBLE change.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • I'm sorry if you spent a grand and can't beat gw now the issue has nothing to do with the change.
  • Pilot wrote: »
    Good job @CG_AaronNemoyten on the change. The players here dont understand that easy things (instant gratification) quickly become boring things. Until now, GW has just been a means to an end... gain shards. I remember when leveling up how challenging GW was and it was the most fun part of the game.

    Id recommend avoiding engaging the complainers. They are relentless with their crying on this forum. Just state the facts and leave it there. In a day or so they will all find something else to complain about.

    If the match making is fair. Only if.

    Wouldn't hurt to make shards easier to farm so people can actually build a deeper bench without needing to spend thousands. Moderate spenders, recharge and pack guys, are now in the same boat as totally F2P guys now, in relation to GW. Totally in the beep bucket.

    Art imitates life, I guess. The richest get richer. Have more to spend? You'll earn more, lol.

    People clearing GW regularly without the earlier retreat option either face easier opponents or have really deep benches.

    I'm in the game as long as I find it fun. With the need to raise my A squad to lvl 70 to be viable in Arena, I'm not sure I'll be able to concentrate on building a viable deeper bench for GW. If it becomes a drag, I'll quit. For now, I'm sticking, hoping for some corrections.
  • Barrok wrote: »
    Barrok wrote: »
    Telaan wrote: »
    Hey everyone,

    I'm REALLY sorry that the GW Retreat change went live without any announcement.

    The explanation for how that happened is embarrassing - we assembled patch notes from a list of data changes, but the GW Retreat change was a server change. Server releases are always handled separately from data releases from a technical perspective, but sometimes they happen to occur on the same day. We are going to have a meeting to discuss how we can GUARANTEE that important server change with player-facing consequences are not released without accompanying patch notes again.

    I wrote something to add to the patch notes, but I'm going to let Jesse edit his own post in a few minutes, so until then here's the explanation:

    The functionality of Retreat has been changed so that it behaves the same as force-quitting the app. While we understand that many players relied on Retreating as part of their strategy, ultimately there were two different ways to leave a battle that didn’t behave the same way (Retreating, and force-quitting the app). We decided that in order to keep the experience fair and consistent, we would change the behavior of Retreat to work the same as force-quitting.

    -Aaron

    Poor poor decision. I'm afraid this game is going down the typically dark path Star Wars games traditionally do.

    There were two separate ways that functioned differently. So what? Everyone had access to them. That's fair and consistent.....
    LOL your response is gold. Have you not read the forums in the last week or two? The user base was fractured on if Force closing was a cheat or not. If it was intended by the developers or not. People wanted FC users to be BANNED. Now of all of a sudden the developers change it so that it behaves like FC, and we act like everyone was using these features and fine with them before. No, everyone wasn't. The user base was fractured and this was a solution to that fracture. Now we have 1 way it behaves (though reports show that sometimes it behaves like the old way) and this should cut down on confusion and requests for being banned.


    Plus, retreating always felt broken. Oh, Darth Vaders only good move was cast... retreat, come back. Ah all is well.

    Though, my biggest flaw with GW is that each new game starts off fresh for the opponent, but not for you. I don't get why they can always use their Chewie taunts turn 1, while mine will be on cool down :(

    Lol but now it's, oh they have Poe/Vader, I'll just stun with Daka or ability block with Poggle. Oh it didn't land? No worries I can reset till it does.

    Instead of retreating to clear debuffs, now you can keep dangerous abilities or toons locked down by having the match reset till debuffs land.

    it doesn't work like that. All moves are predetermined if they land or not. You will see once you FC/retreat, that if they didn't stun the first time they will not stun the next 10000 times, unless you switch up your team (or possibly move them around).

    You know, the other solution is you bring a team that matches up well against your opponent (since they show us the entire team) and that way Vaders ability isn't nearly as big of a problem.

    I will say this though, it does make it tougher. In the past against the very tough Leia, FOTP, POE, QuiJon teams, I have had to FC till I got a decent start, then retreat after I killed FOTP. Now its 4 on 5. With this new change, I might down FOTP but they storm right back and wreck me. No way to retreat out of that.

    It works exactly like that. Here.

    http://imgur.com/aFhO8Um

    All my heals were on cooldown from the previous fight so I had to get through this match taking as little dmg as possible, using the new "retreat" I manipulated RNG by retreating a few times till it heavily favoured me and gave me such results. Match ended with my guys fully healed and off cooldown.

    It completely proved what I was saying, now GW is easy beyond believe as long as you don't mind spending time on each match getting RNG to assist you. The previous retreat still allowed for strategy even if you could get rid of debuffs, now it's just trail and error.
  • Jeks
    52 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Pilot wrote: »
    Good job @CG_AaronNemoyten on the change. The players here dont understand that easy things (instant gratification) quickly become boring things. Until now, GW has just been a means to an end... gain shards. I remember when leveling up how challenging GW was and it was the most fun part of the game.

    Id recommend avoiding engaging the complainers. They are relentless with their crying on this forum. Just state the facts and leave it there. In a day or so they will all find something else to complain about.

    Agree with Pilot on both points. Adding challenge to the game adds longevity, and GW has become a daily chore versus something that required thought and planning. It was the most interesting part of the game for me, which I had to later replace with refreshes of Arena battles. Good job CG and please don't take the negativity on here to heart!
  • Re: RNG -

    I WAS WRONG ABOUT THIS! In GW ONLY, the same party composition trying the same battles vs the same enemies will keep its RNG Seed (for those of you who know what that is). There's a vigorous discussion about this happening right now behind me.

    I'd like to apologize to everybody who I said was wrong :)

    I just spoke with some of our battle system programmers about this and they confirmed that this was added a while ago and it wasn't removed because there are some legitimate anti-exploit reasons for it.

    I don't always have to put my foot in my mouth, but when I do, I put it all the way in.

    -Aaron
  • Ive never been a fan of the Force Close option. But I did use the retreat to my advantage as much as I could. This is a good change to GW, but I think it came at the wrong time. Matchmaking and character balance needs to touched upon before this. The reason force close and retreat was abused so heavily(and why this change is such a sore point) was because of how incredibly hard GW could be. Even with a decent line up AND abusing the retreat option to clear debuffs or enemy buffs there was still no guaruntee you could finsh the GW. The amount of damage output compared to HP or HP recovery or mitigation is severly skewed toward damage. This makes modes like this where you face fresh enemy after fresh enemey increasingly hard. Ive had days where GW could be completed no problem, but other days I dont even make it to the last 3 battles.
  • Barrok
    1753 posts Member
    Ok, I had a team of 5 (anakin, lumi, JC, IG88, Kylo) against a GW team.

    I played the game 4 times, this is how the first 3 turns went every single time.

    Opposing dooku went first, stunned JC for 2559 damage. EVERY TIME.

    Then I attacked dooku for 1545, and he got healing immunity, EVERY TIME.

    Then he countered against me for 1779 and Anakin resisted his ability, everytime. Each of these 4 times he did NOT double counter, just single counter.

    Then Sid attacked JC and gave him healing immunity, every single time.

    So, You can tell me that it is purely random but these first few moves were the exact same everytime, even down to the resists and the DAMAGE.

    I am not calling you a liar, but I do think something is going on.
  • Algren wrote: »
    So to stop people cheating and force closing, they've made it "legal" and instead punished the rest of us by taking away the "legal" tactic we use. Interesting idea. Now got to come up with a completely new tactic to try beat gw (which I've never done despite being lvl60).

    That tactic you know nothing about is called...trying to win fairly. Summin your chars, win. If you want to try again, be my guess. Guess what? RNG won't help you. It does not work that way. The chances are predetermined.

    I agree with Algren. They just made GW an extended Arena Wars. It is now 1 battle at a time and not a war of attrition anymore. It definitely got harder in that you won't be able to beat teams you have zero chance of beating without wearing them down with more than 5 characters. But they also made it easier in that I can just try over and over and over with no penalty until I do actually win.

    IMO - If this is the direction thaey wanted to go, they should have eliminated Force close by saving the characters states when force closed (or make you actually fail) and left GW retreat as it was. People (especially F2P) will now hit a wall they can't get past. If they eliminated force close and left retreat as it was, they would have a chance to get past that wall, at the cost of multiple characters. If they hit another wall, then you are out of luck because you've blown too many on the first wall, but at least you made it further.
    --Nud Stark--
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    Jeks wrote: »
    Agree with Pilot on both points. Adding challenge to the game adds longevity, and GW has become a daily chore versus something that required little thought. Good job CG and please don't take the negativity on here to heart!

    I don't see how this adds challenge. It just removes strategy while formalizing what used to be arguably an exploit.
    Deciding when and how to retreat was one of the most fun parts of GW. Now you can just keep trying the same fight over and over until you get good luck and win.
    Awful change.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • How exactly is "trial and error" an improvement over strategy???
  • @CG_AaronNemoyten in light of this admission that the the RNG Seed stays exactly the same, the loss of retreat is more egregious.
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