Player Created Galactic War posts - MERGED HERE

Replies

  • Re: RNG -

    I WAS WRONG ABOUT THIS! In GW ONLY, the same party composition trying the same battles vs the same enemies will keep its RNG Seed (for those of you who know what that is). There's a vigorous discussion about this happening right now behind me.

    I'd like to apologize to everybody who I said was wrong :)

    I just spoke with some of our battle system programmers about this and they confirmed that this was added a while ago and it wasn't removed because there are some legitimate anti-exploit reasons for it.

    I don't always have to put my foot in my mouth, but when I do, I put it all the way in.

    -Aaron

    lol, it doesn't make me feel any better but thanks for the admission
  • Nicks075 wrote: »
    Retreat still works it just resets the match, everyone is back to full health or whatever health you had when you started the match.
    Its pretty much is the same as result as force closing. I for one think it was a good idea, if a match doesnt go your, retreat and start again fresh. I lkke it. Plus no more complaints of force closing being cheating.
    Nicks075 wrote: »
    Retreat still works it just resets the match, everyone is back to full health or whatever health you had when you started the match.
    Its pretty much is the same as result as force closing. I for one think it was a good idea, if a match doesnt go your, retreat and start again fresh. I lkke it. Plus no more complaints of force closing being cheating.

    If this is true, how is that making GW more of a Challenge? It makes it even easier since now you can keep treating till RNG favours you lol... Dooku didn't double Stun? Retreat till he does, Daka didn't revive? Retreat till she does lol...

    Now, ou CAN'T exile chars with immunity block, retreat your chars about to die to summon later for heal. You can't clear taunts through retreat-you need to live and deal with them. You cannot summon a fresh healer with 0 cooldown just when it pleases you. Should I go on??????

    See my above post, everything you mentioned could now never be an issue to begin with once RNG sides with you, now should I go on?
  • RIP

    At least I got Phasma to 7* and some gw currency left over still. Terrible change imo.
  • Barrok
    1753 posts Member
    Re: RNG -

    I WAS WRONG ABOUT THIS! In GW ONLY, the same party composition trying the same battles vs the same enemies will keep its RNG Seed (for those of you who know what that is). There's a vigorous discussion about this happening right now behind me.

    I'd like to apologize to everybody who I said was wrong :)

    I just spoke with some of our battle system programmers about this and they confirmed that this was added a while ago and it wasn't removed because there are some legitimate anti-exploit reasons for it.

    I don't always have to put my foot in my mouth, but when I do, I put it all the way in.

    -Aaron

    I accept your apology. I am glad you proved this to be true (and this is very good for anti-exploits). What this means is you can not restart over and over and over and hope to get that initial stun off on a character, if it doesn't go off the first time. That means you can still attack someone else and try and get the stuff off, but that first person you try it on will never happen.

  • Ppl just look for things to complain about. Quite simply put, this puts everyone on the same level. Those who fc and those who didn't. If something doesn't go right then u can switch in another toon and try something else. I don't see how this is a bad thing. Also, for those who looked for some sort of sand box to test out different team comps towards new synergies this is now the place it can be done. Yes, this wasn't noted in the update info and I agree it should have been, but having said that it should only make things more equal for everyone to complete it at the same rate.
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Re: RNG -

    I WAS WRONG ABOUT THIS! In GW ONLY, the same party composition trying the same battles vs the same enemies will keep its RNG Seed (for those of you who know what that is). There's a vigorous discussion about this happening right now behind me.

    I'd like to apologize to everybody who I said was wrong :)

    I just spoke with some of our battle system programmers about this and they confirmed that this was added a while ago and it wasn't removed because there are some legitimate anti-exploit reasons for it.

    I don't always have to put my foot in my mouth, but when I do, I put it all the way in.

    -Aaron

    Thanks. This is what I suspected and I've posted it to a number of threads. Reposted again... I am pretty sure now that this is correct.

    --

    I think it's more like this. They roll a bunch of dice in advance: 72, 10, 35, 39, 55, 4, 98.
    Let's say the first thing I do is use Dooku's special on Sid. The code says "give me a random number and if it's 40 or below, Sid is stunned". The number returned is 72, so Sid is not stunned. Then more numbers are asked for to determine damage, secondary stun, etc.
    Say I force close and restart. The same numbers are generated, but this time I use Dooku's special on Luminara. The code this time says "give me a random number and if it's 90 or below, Lumi is stunned". The same 72 is returned, but this time Lumi IS stunned.
    This may appear "predetermined" but it isn't. It is still entirely random, whether "72, 10, 35, 39, 55, 4, 98" is rolled in advance or in real time.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • Telaan
    3454 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Telaan wrote: »

    @CG_AaronNemoyten Poor poor decision. I'm afraid this game is going down the typically dark path Star Wars games traditionally do.

    There were two separate ways that functioned differently. So what? Everyone had access to them. That's fair and consistent.....

    I'm sorry but I don't accept your vague and presumptive "dark path" comment.

    Many players considered force-quitting an exploit, and some considered Retreating an exploit. Neither of them are explicitly documented in the game. If we only have one, we're endorsing a method and establishing that we don't consider it an exploit.

    Seriously? Ok.

    Many players considered them legitimate means of rotating damaged heroes around to best manage heals in order to conserve the limited viable roster available to them. In the end you're liable to alienate more people than please on something like this. But how are you supposed to know either way as the forums traditionally comprise the minority of the player base.

    Then to release it without any mention in the patch notes....? I get that mistakes get made, but some are bigger than others and more impactful on the game. Maybe I'm just too used to MMOs where the patch notes are either made available before the patch is actually released (allowing mistakes to be caught and fixed) or are available via a test server.

    In the end it's your game. You do with it what you want. This is really no sweat off my back as I typically only used force close anyway. But your explanation of fair and consistent is meh...considering it already was since it was available to all. Using the explanation of "many players" to justify this is bogus as clearly "many players" disagree too. Just say you changed it cause it fit your vision and you wanted to. Less room for having the **** card thrown out.
  • Ivadek wrote: »
    Guys please dont complain you guys have your Lumi already. Im level 39. Wanted to spend money but I said after the patch..what if some new character comes in etc.. Now I cant farm lumi..I have like 2*jc 3*chewbacca and 3*talia as my best ofs.. Im ****.. I wont spend a cent on this game.. But i really wanted to..

    Bro, I absolutely feel for you. Anyone that farmed Luminara and Phasma to seven star before this are at a significant advantage. Any newer players or others that didn't get there yet are severely stunted now. What a horrible way to shift the game.

    I'm in the exact same boat. Just unlocked GW and was waiting til after patch to decide where to spend my money. Turns out the answer is Somewhere Else. Everyone told me the game would finally get good when I could grind GW. Now I can't even do that, can't get through until they fix the matchmaking to actually match my team...
  • Hey everyone,

    I'm REALLY sorry that the GW Retreat change went live without any announcement.

    The explanation for how that happened is embarrassing - we assembled patch notes from a list of data changes, but the GW Retreat change was a server change. Server releases are always handled separately from data releases from a technical perspective, but sometimes they happen to occur on the same day. We are going to have a meeting to discuss how we can GUARANTEE that important server change with player-facing consequences are not released without accompanying patch notes again.

    I wrote something to add to the patch notes, but I'm going to let Jesse edit his own post in a few minutes, so until then here's the explanation:

    The functionality of Retreat has been changed so that it behaves the same as force-quitting the app. While we understand that many players relied on Retreating as part of their strategy, ultimately there were two different ways to leave a battle that didn’t behave the same way (Retreating, and force-quitting the app). We decided that in order to keep the experience fair and consistent, we would change the behavior of Retreat to work the same as force-quitting.

    -Aaron

    Swapping in characters was a great mechanic to GW. It was fun and tactical. You could have done other fixes like having the opponents save their buffs/debuffs but your "server change" went the easy route to make things consistently cheesy.

    Why change the mechanic at all? There is no in-game direct negative result to other players. There are no ranks in GW. It's practically PvE. The only thing you have are people who are b*tthurt because other people bragged about shutting down their phones, waiting for a 5 minute reboot to have a reset which you have officially made legal anyway.

    Bring it back to make GW fun again.
  • Keyzer_Soze
    117 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    @CG_AaronNemoyten This is a good change. I thought retreating was a cop out to clear buffs and manipulate cool downs, so I rarely did it. I've always enjoyed GW precisely because each level is a challenging puzzle to solve. Knowing the characters strengths and weaknesses, picking the right characters for each level, and figuring out an ultimately successful path to victory is extremely satisfying. If I fail a level(someone dies,) I quit and try again with a different approach. Sometimes it can take awhile to crack a particularly hard level. I like that. It should be hard. Cheers.
  • Stupid decision. **** ****. How am I supposed to beat a level 60 fully purple geared team now? I've spent £40 on this game so far, I want my money back now.
  • Barrok
    1753 posts Member
    Qeltar wrote: »
    Re: RNG -

    I WAS WRONG ABOUT THIS! In GW ONLY, the same party composition trying the same battles vs the same enemies will keep its RNG Seed (for those of you who know what that is). There's a vigorous discussion about this happening right now behind me.

    I'd like to apologize to everybody who I said was wrong :)

    I just spoke with some of our battle system programmers about this and they confirmed that this was added a while ago and it wasn't removed because there are some legitimate anti-exploit reasons for it.

    I don't always have to put my foot in my mouth, but when I do, I put it all the way in.

    -Aaron

    Thanks. This is what I suspected and I've posted it to a number of threads. Reposted again... I am pretty sure now that this is correct.

    --

    I think it's more like this. They roll a bunch of dice in advance: 72, 10, 35, 39, 55, 4, 98.
    Let's say the first thing I do is use Dooku's special on Sid. The code says "give me a random number and if it's 40 or below, Sid is stunned". The number returned is 72, so Sid is not stunned. Then more numbers are asked for to determine damage, secondary stun, etc.
    Say I force close and restart. The same numbers are generated, but this time I use Dooku's special on Luminara. The code this time says "give me a random number and if it's 90 or below, Lumi is stunned". The same 72 is returned, but this time Lumi IS stunned.
    This may appear "predetermined" but it isn't. It is still entirely random, whether "72, 10, 35, 39, 55, 4, 98" is rolled in advance or in real time.

    You can call it "entirely random" all you want, but if the exact same match plays out the exact same way EVERY TIME, it is not random. There is no amount of explaining you can do to tell me that is random.

    If it was random, the exact damage numbers would not be the same. The abilities and if they happen or are dodged or resisted, would not be the same.



  • Qeltar wrote: »
    I don't see how this adds challenge. It just removes strategy while formalizing what used to be arguably an exploit.
    Deciding when and how to retreat was one of the most fun parts of GW. Now you can just keep trying the same fight over and over until you get good luck and win.
    Awful change.

    Not sure where the challenge is in throwing in a team (posisbly proxies), retreating when you've lost a char and the defence has blown all their cooldowns. Managing retreat wasn't a strategy, it was just an easy mode leading to full rewards for a lot people - which I guess is where the anger is coming from. Yes it's somewhat "trial and error" now, but you have to complete the battle without those added advantages.

  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Barrok wrote: »
    You can call it "entirely random" all you want, but if the exact same match plays out the exact same way EVERY TIME, it is not random.

    The match only plays out the same way if you make the same moves, which causes the random numbers to be allocated in the same order.
    I *thought* they did that to prevent people force-quitting and just trying again over and over until they got good luck. Now, I have no idea what they are thinking.
    @CG_AaronNemoyten - Retreating required thought and planning and strategy. I discuss that strategy in my (now-useless) guide in the Guides section, see if you want.
    Force-closing is just "oops, this is going bad, reload from save game". I have no idea how you could consider these comparable, and leave us only with the cheeseball option.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • I'm just gonna level my dooku and daka and retreat untill I stun 4 toons. This is just trial and error, no real tactic.
  • This change is actually terrible. Adding Restart Option along with Retreat is what we were asking but not taking the retreat itself - the only reason GW was about strategy.
    Now it will turn into P2W show, it was the only instance in which F2P also had a chance to catch up, bye bye to that...
    i have to say this decision might lose you more players than you expect
  • J7000
    2059 posts Member
    J7000 wrote: »
    How about new content instead of making changes that I would venture would anger over 70 percent of your players.

    We did just increase the level cap and introduce a ton of new content, so it's not a mutually exclusive thing.

    You added some new battles which we will be simming for shards and increased the level cap. Then you messed with one of the few things that I would consider content. I honestly don't think you guys appreciate how hard you will have made this for your newer players and your maxed players that go up against REALLY devastating teams. I've faced them. I have four solid healers and some great "dps" toons. I'm not f2p either.

    Maybe this will pan out but man, I'm glad I got Lumni, Phasma, and most of the stars for my droids that I wanted before the change. Me, I'm annoyed. Others will be crippled.

    You also seem to have a bad habit of caving to nerf whines. Still think Bariss needed a nerf?
  • Pilot wrote: »
    Good job @CG_AaronNemoyten on the change. The players here dont understand that easy things (instant gratification) quickly become boring things. Until now, GW has just been a means to an end... gain shards. I remember when leveling up how challenging GW was and it was the most fun part of the game.

    Id recommend avoiding engaging the complainers. They are relentless with their crying on this forum. Just state the facts and leave it there. In a day or so they will all find something else to complain about.

    So now it goes from apparently "easy" to tedious because the only strategy in this new design is to restart the whole match when the enemy gets a stun and you don't. When the original design gave you numerous choices to react to things like that


  • @Qeltar -- I agree 1000% with this:

    "@CG_AaronNemoyten - Retreating required thought and planning and strategy. I discuss that strategy in my (now-useless) guide in the Guides section, see if you want.
    Force-closing is just "oops, this is going bad, reload from save game". I have no idea how you could consider these comparable, and leave us only with the cheeseball option."
  • New players who still don't have luminara and phasma have my sincerest condolence.
  • It makes sense to only allow this. As long as one of the two means stayed it's fine. No problems with that.
  • Re: RNG -

    I WAS WRONG ABOUT THIS! In GW ONLY, the same party composition trying the same battles vs the same enemies will keep its RNG Seed (for those of you who know what that is). There's a vigorous discussion about this happening right now behind me.

    I'd like to apologize to everybody who I said was wrong :)

    I just spoke with some of our battle system programmers about this and they confirmed that this was added a while ago and it wasn't removed because there are some legitimate anti-exploit reasons for it.

    I don't always have to put my foot in my mouth, but when I do, I put it all the way in.

    -Aaron

    LOL AWESOME!

    Apology Accepted!
    --Nud Stark--
  • Hey everyone,

    I'm REALLY sorry that the GW Retreat change went live without any announcement.

    The explanation for how that happened is embarrassing - we assembled patch notes from a list of data changes, but the GW Retreat change was a server change. Server releases are always handled separately from data releases from a technical perspective, but sometimes they happen to occur on the same day. We are going to have a meeting to discuss how we can GUARANTEE that important server change with player-facing consequences are not released without accompanying patch notes again.

    I wrote something to add to the patch notes, but I'm going to let Jesse edit his own post in a few minutes, so until then here's the explanation:

    The functionality of Retreat has been changed so that it behaves the same as force-quitting the app. While we understand that many players relied on Retreating as part of their strategy, ultimately there were two different ways to leave a battle that didn’t behave the same way (Retreating, and force-quitting the app). We decided that in order to keep the experience fair and consistent, we would change the behavior of Retreat to work the same as force-quitting.

    -Aaron


    Maybe while you are at it you can make it so people who have only lvl 50 characters don't run up against lvl 60's in their 2nd and 3rd battles all the gosh dang time. If it is something you only want PTW players playing let us know cause right now, they are getting such a huge advantage winning it every day compared to some who might win it once a week cause they get crap teams to face that was way more over powered than anything they can throw at it.
  • Telaan
    3454 posts Member
    Barrok wrote: »
    Telaan wrote: »
    Hey everyone,

    I'm REALLY sorry that the GW Retreat change went live without any announcement.

    The explanation for how that happened is embarrassing - we assembled patch notes from a list of data changes, but the GW Retreat change was a server change. Server releases are always handled separately from data releases from a technical perspective, but sometimes they happen to occur on the same day. We are going to have a meeting to discuss how we can GUARANTEE that important server change with player-facing consequences are not released without accompanying patch notes again.

    I wrote something to add to the patch notes, but I'm going to let Jesse edit his own post in a few minutes, so until then here's the explanation:

    The functionality of Retreat has been changed so that it behaves the same as force-quitting the app. While we understand that many players relied on Retreating as part of their strategy, ultimately there were two different ways to leave a battle that didn’t behave the same way (Retreating, and force-quitting the app). We decided that in order to keep the experience fair and consistent, we would change the behavior of Retreat to work the same as force-quitting.

    -Aaron

    Poor poor decision. I'm afraid this game is going down the typically dark path Star Wars games traditionally do.

    There were two separate ways that functioned differently. So what? Everyone had access to them. That's fair and consistent.....
    LOL your response is gold. Have you not read the forums in the last week or two? The user base was fractured on if Force closing was a cheat or not. If it was intended by the developers or not. People wanted FC users to be BANNED. Now of all of a sudden the developers change it so that it behaves like FC, and we act like everyone was using these features and fine with them before. No, everyone wasn't. The user base was fractured and this was a solution to that fracture. Now we have 1 way it behaves (though reports show that sometimes it behaves like the old way) and this should cut down on confusion and requests for being banned.


    Plus, retreating always felt broken. Oh, Darth Vaders only good move was cast... retreat, come back. Ah all is well.

    Though, my biggest flaw with GW is that each new game starts off fresh for the opponent, but not for you. I don't get why they can always use their Chewie taunts turn 1, while mine will be on cool down :(

    Fractured? I read those threads and it turned into nothing more than philosophical debates on what deserved what level of punitive action and people arguing over the definitions of bug vs cheat vs exploit vs hack. Those threads were a total joke and most of it was the same four people trolling/flaming one another.

    A better fix would've been to find a way to save buffs and debuffs so people can't retreat then re-enter with the same toons to dupe the system.
  • Vampire_X
    1431 posts Moderator
    Chico wrote: »

    Swapping in characters was a great mechanic to GW. It was fun and tactical. You could have done other fixes like having the opponents save their buffs/debuffs but your "server change" went the easy route to make things consistently cheesy.

    Why change the mechanic at all? There is no in-game direct negative result to other players. There are no ranks in GW. It's practically PvE. The only thing you have are people who are b*tthurt because other people bragged about shutting down their phones, waiting for a 5 minute reboot to have a reset which you have officially made legal anyway.

    Bring it back to make GW fun again.

    Top 5 developer responses to that question: drum roll please...

    Reason 1) rewards
    Reason 2) slows down rewards
    Reason 3) fun does not equal rewards
    Reason 4) you winning gw should not be quareented
    And finally the top 5th reason) if you brag about making it easy we will nerf herd it !

    Tune in tomorrow for dave's top 5 whompa jokes
    Wicked Sith Queen with the Pink Saber
  • At least if you guys want to remove retreat and force close should noticed at bugs and issues. And also player's health and special attack cool time also have to reset before next battle!
  • I'm just gonna level my dooku and daka and retreat untill I stun 4 toons. This is just trial and error, no real tactic.

    This won't work. I just restarted 5 times with the same moves. Results? It's the same every fracking time. Dooku don't apply stun to Lumi (90% chance, not single one success). Enemy Sid apply his heal block to my Asajj every time (100%)...

    What is the point when all throws are determined in advanced? **** this ****
  • ... picking the right characters for each level, and figuring out an ultimately successful path to victory is extremely satisfying. If I fail a level(someone dies,) I quit and try again with a different approach. Sometimes it can take awhile to crack a particularly hard level. I like that. It should be hard. Cheers.

    Hahaha, hahaha :lol:, you do realize that people are complaining about the change because they don't have the luxury of "picking the right characters" for an average 3~4 matches against much higher powered teams after fighting through much more battles against none easy or lower than them squads? When the powerful teams were capped at 60? And now it's become even more difficult to even slog your way to be able to "pick" the right characters :lol:?

    But don't worry about us, you go on your merry way. More cash to buy lotteries for toons equals strategy, I guess...

    Devs, fix match making or reset abilities between matches at least. 50% health minimum would also help. Right now, injured toons are as good as dead.
  • Barrok
    1753 posts Member
    Qeltar wrote: »
    Barrok wrote: »
    You can call it "entirely random" all you want, but if the exact same match plays out the exact same way EVERY TIME, it is not random.

    The match only plays out the same way if you make the same moves, which causes the random numbers to be allocated in the same order.
    I *thought* they did that to prevent people force-quitting and just trying again over and over until they got good luck. Now, I have no idea what they are thinking.
    @CG_AaronNemoyten - Retreating required thought and planning and strategy. I discuss that strategy in my (now-useless) guide in the Guides section, see if you want.
    Force-closing is just "oops, this is going bad, reload from save game". I have no idea how you could consider these comparable, and leave us only with the cheeseball option.

    I still can't feel comfortable calling something entirely random if it plays out exactly the same everytime (if the same moves are made). But I will agree to disagree here.

    With that said, I also disagree that one way is (FC or retreating) is better than the other. Both are cheesing the situation. You know how many times I retreated once Vader used his dots on me, or Chewie/Poe taunted? That seemed way worse than FC'ing.

    Both ways have "strategy" and both ways have "cheesyness". I think the fairest is the force close method, because it requires you to change up your game plan if your first game plan didn't work. You can't just sub in 5 of your D team, take all of the special abilities and then quit out. That was sooo cheese.

    Now, it might take 20 minutes of battling to find the best approach with FC, but it still means you have to put in time to use the cheese, rather than just retreating.

    Now, the ultimate cheese was being able to use a combination of both (retreat and FC) and I am glad they picked one way instead of leaving both.

  • Jeks wrote: »
    Qeltar wrote: »
    I don't see how this adds challenge. It just removes strategy while formalizing what used to be arguably an exploit.
    Deciding when and how to retreat was one of the most fun parts of GW. Now you can just keep trying the same fight over and over until you get good luck and win.
    Awful change.

    Not sure where the challenge is in throwing in a team (posisbly proxies), retreating when you've lost a char and the defence has blown all their cooldowns. Managing retreat wasn't a strategy, it was just an easy mode leading to full rewards for a lot people - which I guess is where the anger is coming from. Yes it's somewhat "trial and error" now, but you have to complete the battle without those added advantages.

    You can still get your opponent to blow their cooldowns by fielding your team D and letting them die. Furthermore, the retreat is still buggy. Some times it saves and some times it doesn't. When the battle saves needs to be consistent. I've retreated and returned to a almost dead jawa when he should have healed back to full health.

    If you want it more "trial and error" reset health and cooldowns because if your faced with multiple 60 purple teams in a row the way it is now, you've got no chance.

    GW was fine the way it was.
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