Thermal Detonators and the heroes that use them
January 16, 2016 11:48PM
edited January 2016
Thermal detonators have many issues to deter them (and the hero's that have them - Greedo, Nute Gunray, and Mob Enforcer) from being used.
1.) All 3 hero's that wield them get very little (or none at all in the case of Nute Gunray) potency boosts from gear. Which renders them inconsistent at best, and virtually useless against units with at least 40% tenacity - which most units have more than by the time they reach gear VII.
2.) They can be evaded AND resisted. So basically, not only do they roll against tenacity, they also roll against evasion just to have a chance to deal damage.
3.) They can be evaded or resisted both during the round of their application in addition to the round of their detonation (application being the round you used them to have a chance for them to "stick" - detonation being the round they actually go off). Thus, there are 4 (?) roll-checks just to see if they will do ANY damage. Given the fact that their users have such low potency compared to the average tenacity value of targets, doesn't this seem to be a bit extreme?
4.) They can be removed from a target prior to their detonation via Barriss (unique skill) if Jedi, Ackbar, Lobot, and Ewok Elder's abilities to remove debuffs. Seriously? As if getting them to "stick" and "detonate" weren't difficult enough on their own.
Basically, with these 4 mechanics, there's very little sense to use them (and ultimately, to use the heroes that have them excluding niche role reasons). Which bring me to my question:
Is this intended? Are they so overly powerful as to require so many mechanics to prevent them from dealing any damage whatsoever lest they be game-breakingly overpowered or something?
I honestly want to try some scoundrel-composed synergy groups, but with thermal detonators behaving in such a manner, it's pretty much unviable.
Side-note: the opponents on many missions (namely, Mob Enforcers, since they're frequent opponents) have very little issue with getting their thermal detonators to stick and detonate, so I'm assuming they get potency values unobtainable by our playable versions.
1.) All 3 hero's that wield them get very little (or none at all in the case of Nute Gunray) potency boosts from gear. Which renders them inconsistent at best, and virtually useless against units with at least 40% tenacity - which most units have more than by the time they reach gear VII.
2.) They can be evaded AND resisted. So basically, not only do they roll against tenacity, they also roll against evasion just to have a chance to deal damage.
3.) They can be evaded or resisted both during the round of their application in addition to the round of their detonation (application being the round you used them to have a chance for them to "stick" - detonation being the round they actually go off). Thus, there are 4 (?) roll-checks just to see if they will do ANY damage. Given the fact that their users have such low potency compared to the average tenacity value of targets, doesn't this seem to be a bit extreme?
4.) They can be removed from a target prior to their detonation via Barriss (unique skill) if Jedi, Ackbar, Lobot, and Ewok Elder's abilities to remove debuffs. Seriously? As if getting them to "stick" and "detonate" weren't difficult enough on their own.
Basically, with these 4 mechanics, there's very little sense to use them (and ultimately, to use the heroes that have them excluding niche role reasons). Which bring me to my question:
Is this intended? Are they so overly powerful as to require so many mechanics to prevent them from dealing any damage whatsoever lest they be game-breakingly overpowered or something?
I honestly want to try some scoundrel-composed synergy groups, but with thermal detonators behaving in such a manner, it's pretty much unviable.
Side-note: the opponents on many missions (namely, Mob Enforcers, since they're frequent opponents) have very little issue with getting their thermal detonators to stick and detonate, so I'm assuming they get potency values unobtainable by our playable versions.
Post edited by SinnerWill on
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Replies
Lol. Killing on detonation is probably the least of the problems with thermal detonators. What would it matter if they can kill if they still can't "stick" or "detonate" for any damage ~95% of the time?
Sure, at low levels/gear values, they worked, somewhat, but at max levels and against gears VII+ enemies, using a TD like passing a turn.
So, the matter still stands. Please, @EA_Jesse, can you shed some light on this matter or have it addressed?
Thank you very much!
it would be a race ot kill the guy who the TD attatched to.
Your idea would help with the fact that TD functionality is nil on targets that die prior to detonation, but I think it would make Greedo's version of TD far too powerful.
Still, however, with multiple chances for characters to resist and/or evade, in addition to the fact that their users tend to have very low potency, shouldn't this warrant an overhaul to make them roll strictly against evasion like all other damage-dealing attacks (excluding DoT's, albeit every single DoT application ability deals up-front damage as well)?
Shouldn't Detonators be impervious to "cleanses" (Ackbar, Lobot, Ewok Elder, etc.) as well since they're ultimately just a damage-dealing ability on a time-delay?
They have significant duration delays (long enough to make them nearly useless in arena PvP except for particular turn-jumping individuals, since the first rounds determine the outcome), and the highest damage from one that I've witnessed is nowhere near the damage values dished out by most direct-damage sources.
So... Let's please make them at least worth the wasted turn the AI takes when controlling their characters, I beseech you.
1. No right-minded human throwS a timed grenade on someone who is almost dead.
2. No right-minded human focuses attacks on someone with a timed grenade attached to them. When there are other targets.
3. You cannot dispel a grenade according to the laws of physics.
4. You cannot resist grenades according to the laws of physics
I digress
Help our underpowered underplayed characters achieve playable status CG
Ultimately, they are a damage-dealing ability on a timed delay. No other damage-dealing abilities (including DoT's which are an "added bonus" attached to the damage-dealing abilities that deliver them, from which only the DoT application rolls against tenacity) suffer a roll against tenacity to completely abate damage (yet detonators roll twice -application and detonation round). Evasion should be the only way to avoid them.
With the sheer quantity of "cons" to the behavior of thermal detonators, you'd think their damage in the rare occasion where they successfully detonate would be amazing, but they aren't.
So, suggestions:
1.) Either tone up the damage significantly (in the hands of player-owned characters since AI versions of the characters seem to have unattainable values of potency) while keeping them as they are to justify their use.
2.) Shorten their durations to "start of the target's next turn". Potentially decreasing their base damage to balance, and remove at least one (or both) of the tenacity (and evade) rolls to negate their damage.
3.) Remove tenacity rolls against them completely, leaving only ONE evasion roll chance (either application OR detonation). Leave durations and damage as they are.
4.) (Least desired option): make them deal instantaneous damage like all other damage-dealing abilities (meaning they can cause counter-attacks), with toned-down damage. This would circumvent both tenacity rolls, leaving only 1 evasion roll, but it would alter the unique purpose of thermal detonators (which is to avoid triggering counter-attacks). Damage would likely need to be toned down to compensate, however, and I feel this should only be used as a "temporary band-aid" while a permanent re-work of Thermal Detonators is in the works. This option would make them function like the grenades tossed by the AI versions of "Recon Stormtrooper" and a few others.