Defense/Armor Calculator

Finity
308 posts Member
edited October 2016
EDIT: Recently, I have noticed (and I have had them too) questions about how defense impacts armor. With the help of Josh_K, czarbss and scuba, a formula has been found for the defense/armor relations, and a calculator to reflect that formula has been created:

http://realityskewedgamers.blogspot.com/2016/09/defense-and-armor-calculator-version-2.html

This updated version of the calculator was created on September 16th, so needs some testing just to verify everything is correct. So please check to see if the calculator works properly so that we can have a good tool to use to gauge the effects of defense mods on characters without having to actually have them.
Love SWGOH and want to keep it great! YouTube: Reality Skewed Gamers
Post edited by Finity on

Replies

  • scuba
    12142 posts Member
    Very nice. Me and another have been working on the formula for a couple a days and yours seems to also have the same problem of not coming out right, typically off by 1-3 flat defense.

    So far the ones I have found off are 5's, sunffac, bariss, teebo

    If you want to make it easier the Flat Armor value can be calculated

    ArmorValue = (600*Armor%)/(100-Armor%)
    Example 5's base armor is 37.89%
    (600*37.89)/(100-37.89)=366.02

    We have also found when calculating the % armor added but % defense mods if you truncate and not round the numbers come out closer

    Example 366*.1335=48.86474
    Don't round to 49 just truncate to 48

  • Josh_K
    1150 posts Member
    edited September 2016
    So I believe the below formula yields almost exact results:

    Damage Reduction % = Modded Defense / (Modded Defense + (level * 7.5))

    where Modded Defense = Floor(Floor(gear_level_armor_rating_compoundable + agi_armor_rating + str_armor_rating) * Def % multiplier from mods + Flat Defense from Mods + gear_level_armor_rating_noncompoundable)

    gear_level_armor_rating_noncompoundable is any direct defense added from the current level of gear.

    gear_level_armor_rating_compoundable is any accumulated defense stats added from previous gear levels other than the current

    agi_armor_rating = Agi * 0.07
    str_armor_rating = Str * 0.14

    e.g. Fives has 15 armor added on gear level 10; this is non-compoundable. However, the armor from +30 str +5 agi added from equipped gear on g10 is compoundable.

    Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/52n4mc/brute_forced_defensearmor_calculator/
  • scuba
    12142 posts Member
    edited September 2016
    @Josh_K Yeah that mostly works. I have seen some characters, as I mentioned that are off by a +/- 3 defense if adding %defense via mods.
    5's for example if you add just 11.75% defense and calculate it out out it is off by 2
    Maxed 5's has 366 base armor adding 11.75% defense should add +43 armor. Somehow in game it is only adding +41 armor.
  • So this is also excluding armor from gear at g10 in the fives example? He gets 15 armor at g10 so not compounding that and accounting for some rounding could account for that 2 defense.
  • Finity wrote: »
    Recently, I have noticed (and I have had them too) questions about how defense impacts armor. As of right now, since a clear formula isn't out there, the only way to figure it out is by actually trying to equip mods, but this doesn't help if all you want to do is theorize on your character if you don't have the mods. I recently brute forced an equation to help create the relationship between the defense stat on mods and the armor % your character will have. I have posted the calculator in a couple of places for testing, and now I would like the help of the SWGOH Forum community too. So far through testing, the armor % is accurate within 0.10% armor, although most tests have been within 0.03%. I am still working on adjusting the formula, but I think this is a good start to the testing. Please use the calculator, test it out on your characters, and please let me know if you get any large deviations between the actual armor and the estimated armor. Hopefully this will be a tool to help everyone on figuring out how to use defense mods/stats on their characters and which characters will have the greater benefit. There is also a video that goes through how to use the calculator. For right now, the formulas used are only for level 80 characters. I hope to work on non-level 80 characters moving forward.

    http://realsithofgenius.blogspot.com/2016/09/defense-and-armor-calculator.html

    Please let me know what you think and how your results of testing went.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/4amo0g/as_the_game_evolves_there_seems_to_be_a_great/d12hhch

    You're welcome.
  • scuba
    12142 posts Member
    Josh_K wrote: »
    So this is also excluding armor from gear at g10 in the fives example? He gets 15 armor at g10 so not compounding that and accounting for some rounding could account for that 2 defense.

    That is it!!! The Armor added by +armor at current gear level is not used in the BaseValue*%ModDefense Calulation
  • Pcx99 wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »
    Recently, I have noticed (and I have had them too) questions about how defense impacts armor. As of right now, since a clear formula isn't out there, the only way to figure it out is by actually trying to equip mods, but this doesn't help if all you want to do is theorize on your character if you don't have the mods. I recently brute forced an equation to help create the relationship between the defense stat on mods and the armor % your character will have. I have posted the calculator in a couple of places for testing, and now I would like the help of the SWGOH Forum community too. So far through testing, the armor % is accurate within 0.10% armor, although most tests have been within 0.03%. I am still working on adjusting the formula, but I think this is a good start to the testing. Please use the calculator, test it out on your characters, and please let me know if you get any large deviations between the actual armor and the estimated armor. Hopefully this will be a tool to help everyone on figuring out how to use defense mods/stats on their characters and which characters will have the greater benefit. There is also a video that goes through how to use the calculator. For right now, the formulas used are only for level 80 characters. I hope to work on non-level 80 characters moving forward.

    http://realsithofgenius.blogspot.com/2016/09/defense-and-armor-calculator.html

    Please let me know what you think and how your results of testing went.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/4amo0g/as_the_game_evolves_there_seems_to_be_a_great/d12hhch

    You're welcome.

    Without mods that formula works. That was a post from 6 months ago and I have seen it, but mods put that formula into question.
    Love SWGOH and want to keep it great! YouTube: Reality Skewed Gamers
  • scuba
    12142 posts Member
    Here is what has worked!! tried on multiple characters now Thanks @J0K3R and @Josh_K for providing the missing pieces

    BaseArmorValue = ROUND(((CharaterLevel*7.5)*BaseArmor%))/(100-BaseArmor%),0)

    %DefModArmorAdded = TRUNC((BaseArmorValue-ArmorAddedatCurrentGearLevel)*(%defMods/100))

    ModdedArmorValue =
    BaseArmorValue + %DefModArmorAdded + IntegerDefModArmorAdded

    ModdedArmor% = ROUND((ModdedArmorValue*100)/(ModdedArmorValue+(CharaterLevel*7.5)),2)

    Example 1
    5's Base Armor 37.89%
    Level 80
    G10 with +15 armor added at G10
    Mods with Defense
    Diamond +8 and +11.75
    Triangle +9
    Cross +8

    BaseArmor Value = Round(((80*7.5)*37.89)/(100-37.89),0)= 366

    %DefModArmorAdded = TRUNC((366-15)*(11.75/100)) = 41

    ModdedArmorValue = 366+41+8+9+8 = 432

    ModdedArmor% = ROUND((432*100)/(432+(80*7.5)),2) = 41.86% Armor.

    Shows same in game

    Example 2
    Kylo Ren Base armor 19.35
    Level 70
    G7 with 0 armor added at G10
    Mods with Defense
    Diamond with 11.75%

    BaseArmor Value = Round(((70*7.5)*19.35)/(100-19.35),0)= 126

    %DefModArmorAdded = TRUNC((126-0)*(11.75/100)) = 14

    ModdedArmorValue = 126+14+0 = 140

    ModdedArmor% = ROUND((140*100)/(140+(70*7.5)),2) = 21.05% Armor.

    Shows Same in Game
  • Josh_K wrote: »
    So I believe the below formula yields almost exact results:

    Damage Reduction % = Modded Defense / (Modded Defense + (level * 7.5))

    where Modded Defense = Floor(Floor(gear_level_armor_rating_compoundable + agi_armor_rating + str_armor_rating) * Def % multiplier from mods + Flat Defense from Mods + gear_level_armor_rating_noncompoundable)

    gear_level_armor_rating_noncompoundable is any direct defense added from the current level of gear.

    gear_level_armor_rating_compoundable is any accumulated defense stats added from previous gear levels other than the current

    agi_armor_rating = Agi * 0.07
    str_armor_rating = Str * 0.14

    e.g. Fives has 15 armor added on gear level 10; this is non-compoundable. However, the armor from +30 str +5 agi added from equipped gear on g10 is compoundable.

    Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/52n4mc/brute_forced_defensearmor_calculator/

    yeah, it is the separation of the gear at the current stage that is making the difference, because I could not get the formula to work properly without that.

    I am updating the calculator based on yours and czarbss post.
    Love SWGOH and want to keep it great! YouTube: Reality Skewed Gamers
  • Finity
    308 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Thanks to @Josh_K and czarbss for helping get the formula for the latest version: http://realityskewedgamers.blogspot.com/2016/09/defense-and-armor-calculator-version-2.html

    The original post has been edited to reflect the new calculator
    Post edited by Finity on
    Love SWGOH and want to keep it great! YouTube: Reality Skewed Gamers
  • scuba
    12142 posts Member
    @Finity instead of trial and error or swgoh.gg site for base armor value
    Armorvalue = (CharaterLevel*7.5)*BaseArmor%)/(100-BaseArmor%)

    basearmor% can come right out of the stats
  • scuba wrote: »
    @Finity instead of trial and error or swgoh.gg site for base armor value
    Armorvalue = (CharaterLevel*7.5)*BaseArmor%)/(100-BaseArmor%)

    basearmor% can come right out of the stats

    Good point. since level is now a variable in the equation, should be easier to calculate it that way. Thanks!
    Love SWGOH and want to keep it great! YouTube: Reality Skewed Gamers
  • Finity
    308 posts Member
    edited September 2016
    And it has been updated! Thanks, @scuba . I'm sure there are more improvements to make it easier too
    Post edited by Finity on
    Love SWGOH and want to keep it great! YouTube: Reality Skewed Gamers
  • Looks good. Is there an explanation of how armor works?

    Is the armor % how much physical damage is reduced by when it's dealt?
    You guys had a riot? On account o' me? My very own riot?
  • scuba
    12142 posts Member
    Looks good. Is there an explanation of how armor works?

    Is the armor % how much physical damage is reduced by when it's dealt?

    That seems to be the accepted and IMO the correct theory. I have been meaning to test it but part of the testing is there seems to be a 5% variance in damage and there is the pesky armor penetration stat to take into account.
  • scuba wrote: »
    Looks good. Is there an explanation of how armor works?

    Is the armor % how much physical damage is reduced by when it's dealt?

    That seems to be the accepted and IMO the correct theory. I have been meaning to test it but part of the testing is there seems to be a 5% variance in damage and there is the pesky armor penetration stat to take into account.

    And don't forget there is also armor penetration involved with that too. But yes - the armor is the amount the damage is reduced without other considerations.
    Love SWGOH and want to keep it great! YouTube: Reality Skewed Gamers
  • scuba
    12142 posts Member
    edited September 2016
    Looks good. Is there an explanation of how armor works?

    Is the armor % how much physical damage is reduced by when it's dealt?

    So I ran some calculations based on a battle I ran earlier and that definitly look like what happens

    Example 1
    Attacker:
    Anakin AoE
    Physical Damage 2481
    Critical Damage 216%
    Armor Penetration (AP) 40
    AoE damage modifier 1.886

    Defender:
    SunFac Armor 36.51% reduced to 33.7% by AP
    Aalya Armor 29.08% reduced to 25.56% by AP
    5's Armor 40.89% reduced to 38.46 by AP
    Rex Armor 24.05% reduced to 20% by AP
    Anakin Armor 29.33% reduced to 25.93% by AP

    Calculated damage
    Non-Crit=PD*Modifer*(1-(Armor/100)
    Crit=PD*Modifer*(CD/100)*(1-(Armor/100)

    SunFac 3470
    Aalya 7522
    5's 6219
    Rex 8084
    Anakin 3470

    All calculated values were within 5% of actual.
    FTWMHMQ.png

    Example 2
    Aalya Basic
    Physical Damage 2263
    Critical Damage 186%
    Armor Penetration (AP) 25
    Basic damage modifier 1.645

    Defender:
    Rex Armor 24.05% reduced to 20% by AP

    Calculated damage
    Crit=PD*Modifer*(CD/100)*(1-(Armor/100)
    Rex 8145

    Calculated damage was within 5% of actual.
    7F2hU60.png

    I assumed AP reduce the hidden flat armor value by that amount
    Example SunFac Armor is 36.51% converted to flat value = 345
    345-40 = 305
    305 converter back is 33.7% armor

    ArmorValue = (Armor%*(CharacterLevel*7.5))/100-Armor%)
    Armor% = (ArmorValue*100)/(ArmorValue+(CharacterLevel*7.5))
  • the link is broken, can u post it back please?
  • Tiggus
    735 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Priceless information, thanks for bumping this thread!!

    I ran a few example with more than Fives to see what's the worth of boosting your defense (vs. health or protection). It usually speaks in favor of health/protection. Actual numbers vary depending on the character and the attacker's armor penetration but here are a few conclusions:
    1. A defense mod set bonus (5%) is always worse than a health one (is equivalent to a boost of 1.5 - 4.0% of health value)
    2. A defense main stat (+11.75%) is often better than a health main stat (+5.88%): More so for whoever has larger armor values to start with (mostly tanks), not so much for attackers
    3. A defense main stat (+11.75) is always much worse than the protection one (+23.5%)
    4. A defense% secondary stat (+1.5%) is almost always worse than a health one (+1.12%)
    5. A defense plain value secondary stat (8 or 9) equates or exceeds a health one (300 - 400). In the case of Royal Guard, +10 defense = +650 HP.
    6. Boosting defense is always more profitable for Tanks (larger initial values) than for Attackers

    I can share the spreadsheet if anyone wants to investigate this further...
    ☮ Consular ☮ - https://swgoh.gg/u/tiggus/
  • Finity
    308 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Thanks for letting me know about the links, @AnakinCanonSolo - I have updated the links in the previous messages, but I'll put it here too: http://realityskewedgamers.blogspot.com/2016/09/defense-and-armor-calculator-version-2.html
    Post edited by Finity on
    Love SWGOH and want to keep it great! YouTube: Reality Skewed Gamers
  • Shleppy
    36 posts Member
    Schnazzy! thanks guys (all above) for lending a better understanding of how DEF actually works when it's all said and done. Appreciate your time and effort to help us ley peeps. Cheers!
  • Awesome info.

    +1
  • Ronoaldo
    739 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    Everyone. A bit of help here. Can we estimate the defense/armor Stormtrooper will have in a full empire team after the rework?
    My favorite characters Empire - Sith
  • scuba
    12142 posts Member
    Ronoaldo wrote: »
    Everyone. A bit of help here. Can we estimate the defense/armor Stormtrooper will have in a full empire team after the rework?

    Use the calculator to figure out his modded values for armor/resistance
    Then plug that in as the base to the calculator and put the bonus defense into the "set bonus"
    This will give you what is armor/resistance should be.
  • scuba wrote: »
    Ronoaldo wrote: »
    Everyone. A bit of help here. Can we estimate the defense/armor Stormtrooper will have in a full empire team after the rework?

    Use the calculator to figure out his modded values for armor/resistance
    Then plug that in as the base to the calculator and put the bonus defense into the "set bonus"
    This will give you what is armor/resistance should be.

    Thanks!
    My favorite characters Empire - Sith
  • LeoRavus
    1165 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    Finity wrote: »
    EDIT: Recently, I have noticed (and I have had them too) questions about how defense impacts armor. With the help of Josh_K, czarbss and scuba, a formula has been found for the defense/armor relations, and a calculator to reflect that formula has been created:

    http://realityskewedgamers.blogspot.com/2016/09/defense-and-armor-calculator-version-2.html

    This updated version of the calculator was created on September 16th, so needs some testing just to verify everything is correct. So please check to see if the calculator works properly so that we can have a good tool to use to gauge the effects of defense mods on characters without having to actually have them.

    Looks like that's for mods. How much should Barriss gain from the +60 armor/resistance gear piece at G12?
  • There is diminishing returns, +60 defense by itself can't give you a value. When original made it was to figure out the value of mods, but if you put the +60 in one of the mod slots, you will get the correct result.
    Love SWGOH and want to keep it great! YouTube: Reality Skewed Gamers
  • Roughly 4/5% damage mitigation
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