Fix Raid Han or change wording please

Reyalp

His 'Shoots first' ability clearly states it 'will stun the target for 1 turn'.

If its possible to resist this then it should be 'has a chance to stun the target'.

Thanks

Reyalp

And before people come on moaning about 'all chars have a base resist' that isn't my point here. Its the use of the word 'will'

slickdealer

You would need to change every ability in the game.

Palps stun says 70% chance. In reality it will never be 70% due to base resist.

WAI

Reyalp

slickdealer wrote: »

You would need to change every ability in the game.

Palps stun says 70% chance. In reality it will never be 70% due to base resist.

WAI

Nope - 70% chance it says which means 30% of the time it is subject to RNG. Hans ability has no element of chance mentioned in the text - it states it 'WILL' stun target .

And you wouldn't need to change every ability in the game - either reword Hans to say 'with a chance to stun the target for one turn' OR make it Stun everytime as it currently suggests

slickdealer

Rex - It says deal physical damage and remove 25% turn meter.

It doesn't say a CHANCE of removing.

Go read his basic.

There are hundreds of these.

Reyalp

slickdealer wrote: »

Rex - It says deal physical damage and remove 25% turn meter.

It doesn't say a CHANCE of removing.

Go read his basic.

There are hundreds of these.

Again, I get what your saying but its the use of the word 'WILL' - that specific word is what irritates me. I suggested a fix to this in my last post

CronozNL

Irritated me from the start as well. OP has a point but I doubt han will get buffed to his current description (altho he could use it since he is squishy).

tmntguy86

The first time I used him I was confused by this as well. I fought him plenty and he always stunned my toons. Anytime I've fought him he's never not stunned one of my toons on the start. Then I finally got him and tried him out. I landed maybe 1 out of 3 or 1 out of 4 on average. I had to add a decent amount of potency to him to make it work often. Which is a bit disappointing since he's pretty squishy and could use the attention to health/protection more than stun.

Tav1n_Yo

Reyalp wrote: »

His 'Shoots first' ability clearly states it 'will stun the target for 1 turn'.

If its possible to resist this then it should be 'has a chance to stun the target'.

Thanks

Agree with the OP on this one and I think a lot of other folks were confused as well. Not crying about it, but it definitely doesn't read the way it acts out. This same issue happened with th3 whole Dengar and tenacity down issue which they not only changed the wording but also how it functioned, followed by a revamp of tenacity/potency as a whole. General Grievous is a perfect example of how to correctly display the wording of an ability with his basic. Pretty simple IMO.

medetec

It is working as it reads. For example Aayla reads "In addition, she Stuns her target for 1 turn whenever she critically hits" but can be resisted when she crits. While it does work as advertised per how this game plays out, I would be very much in favor of it reading instead as:

Shoots First
Han has +35% Counter Chance and +10% Critical Chance. Han takes a bonus turn at the start of each encounter. During this turn, he can only use his Basic ability, but it will Stun the target for 1 turn and targets cannot Evade or Resist the effects of this attack.

kalidor

It would be nice if they consistently used "cannot resist this effect" for effects that cannot be resisted, since these have a history of changing.

• TM reduction used to be unresistible, until was changed to do a pot/ten check.
• Debuffing used to be resistible, now in some cases it can't be resisted (eg. QGJ's humbling blow, Mace's Smite)

Then you'd know if might be resisted if it didn't explicitly state it can't.

Ztyle

It says
He can only use his basic, but it will stun the target for 1 turn
It should say
He can only use his basic, but it can stun the target for 1 turn

That would be a correct description, as he's basic normally don't have stun and it shows it can be resisted

Jnbentzel81

Reyalp!!! It's me barad dur!! Hello shard mate!!

Vertigo

If you look at other similar descriptions like Sid's AOE it says it will apply 3 DoT effects if it crits. As in its guaranteed to attempt to apply 3 DoTs if it crits, but it will still have to get through a tenacity/potency check. This is true for all abilities like this.

It WILL stun the target, but only if you have high enough potency compared to their tenacity. This has been true since the beginning and always will be. Teebo's basic WILL remove 100% turn meter if he's stealthed but it can still be resisted. It's not broken.

aibeira

Interesting... I interpret these things as a two chances. One chance to use the effect on the target (stun in this case, TM reduction in others, defense down, offense down, etc...), and the other chance to actual have it take effect...

In similar fashion to Fives having and 80% change to counter attack. (Never mind that the AI seems to get more like 95%...)

So, Rex's basic says "Deal Physical damage to target enemy and remove 25% turn meter." I interpret this to mean that on 100% of his attacks, we will try and remove 25% turn meter. Every time he attacks with this basic, there will be a potency vs. tenacity comparison resulting in chance of the effect happening. To a minimum of 15%, and then RNG decides it.

In like fashion, QGJ's basic says "Deal Physical damage to target enemy with a 65% chance to gain 30% Turn Meter and a 65% chance to remove 30% of the target's Turn Meter." So, 65% of his basic attacks will attempt to remove 30% turn meter - RNG determines which of the attacks do so. When this happens, the same potency vs tenacity comparison happens, and RNG decides it.

Han's "First Shot" ability would seem to follow more like Rex's - always tries to be applied, but may still be resisted.

NotMatt

And people say tenacity is irrelevant...

Cigbreak

To OP...the wording is correct...the wording means there is a 100% chance the target will be subjected to stun effect...however once a character is affected by an effect, it has the ability to resist. Han's effect still affects target but his tenacity may overrule that effect.

However targets immune to stun such as Raid Bosses will never be affected because they have a 100% resist effect bonus.

Vertigo

NotMatt wrote: »

And people say tenacity is irrelevant...

Raid Han's base potency is also like the 10th lowest in the game which doesnt help

Z_Cavaricci

Luminara

Deal physical damage to target enemy and inflict ability block for 1 turn.

These are all over. Deal with it.

Nikoms565

Cigbreak wrote: »

To OP...the wording is correct...the wording means there is a 100% chance the target will be subjected to stun effect...however once a character is affected by an effect, it has the ability to resist. Han's effect still affects target but his tenacity may overrule that effect.

Except that is not how it's worded...and that's simply the OP's point. The ability shouldn't say "WILL" when it means "MIGHT". Put another way, it shouldn't say will, when there's a chance it won't.

Vertigo

It should say "Will attempt to apply" not "Will apply" I'll give you that much, but it shouldn't say "might" that's just stupid. Theres still a 100% chance for it to try and and stun the target.

Nikoms565

Vertigo wrote: »

It should say "Will attempt to apply" not "Will apply" I'll give you that much, but it shouldn't say "might" that's just ****. Theres still a 100% chance for it to try and and stun the target.

Please reread my post. I never said it should say "might"

Baal

Get you potency mods.

johnne

Lol, in this case every wording needs to be fixed, for ALL the basic skills.

"Deal Physical Damage to target Enemy.. " is so WROOOONG. cuz enemy may evade.

Ok, dont be naughty.

Mithrawnuodo

Semantics are important.
That said, you should understand that at times intent trumps literal interpretation.
Tldr; don't be a grammar ****. Bigger problems exist.

scuba

"..... Can only use his basic ability, and stuns the target for 1 turn."

Now the wording is similar to every other 100% chance debuff wording that is resistable.

"... she stuns her target for 1 turn whenever she critically hits"

".. Removes 25% TM"

"... Inflict a damage over time effect whenever they score a Critical Hit "

"... Also remove 100% Turn Meter"

".. Inflict defense down until the end of wedge's next turn"

"... Inflict speed down for 2 turns. "

Etc...

Mithrawnuodo

I see where the problem is, but, that's small potatoes compared to the million and one things that still need to be fixed, like teebo's stealth.
Tying up programmers to reword everything is an exercise in absurdity.

scuba

Mithrawnuodo wrote: »

I see where the problem is, but, that's small potatoes compared to the million and one things that still need to be fixed, like teebo's stealth.
Tying up programmers to reword everything is an exercise in absurdity.

Nailed it!

jackTHErandom

Reading some of the abilities discriptions makes you wonder if the devs understand how the game actually works...

Even though other things need their attention, fixing discriptions of a couple of abilities doesnt take days...

DjangoQuik

Jnbentzel81 wrote: »

Reyalp!!! It's me barad dur!! Hello shard mate!!

@Jnbentzel81 don't necro old threads just to say hi to someone - that's what PMs are for.

Tronixi

Imagine this. If in the original movie Han who shot first would have missed his shot instead?
Whats the point to shoot first if it will miss?