Something Poe related
January 21, 2016 11:09PM
edited January 2016
First 5 fights has been a disaster. My last fight just before reset hits showed something interesting.
Notice the switch I made at the start of the vid.
Anyway I'm uploading a 6 streak this way and showing this would explain a bit more perhaps. I'll stop now because I don't want to get on peoples nerves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zg80WL61xI
Notice the switch I made at the start of the vid.
Anyway I'm uploading a 6 streak this way and showing this would explain a bit more perhaps. I'll stop now because I don't want to get on peoples nerves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zg80WL61xI439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
0
- 61.6K General Discussion
- -35 Developer Q&A Archive
- 2.6K New Players
- 30.7K Arena and Character Strategy
- 3.2K Individual Events
- 5.5K Guild Events
- 4.7K PVP and Rivalry
- 51K Guild Recruitment
- 751 Art and Media
- 4.2K Off Topic
Howdy, Stranger!
Replies
Some people that were following the earlier videos. Thanks for your input as well from both sides. I'll try this out for a few more days and see if it continues to work.
Small note: At 0:45 in the video when you used your Kylo AoE.
The probably "right/correct/most promising" approach here should/would have been to use Kylo's Ourage on QGJ.
This would have either
- Blown up QGJ right away (with a crit) - unlikely but COULD have happened
- or allowed for Asajj to clean up with her AoE
Thus QGJ wouldn't have nuked your Phasma and would have allowed an even easier - in this case "cleaner" - win.Also from the numbers seen in the video, i take it that your Kylo is FAR from max gear. He is critting for 1,8k. He SHOULD be critting for ~3k on his AoE with max gear. Thats at least what mine is critting atm
That explains Kylo's lower damage since he is probably not one of your "main" toons (yet) in regard to gear/skill levels.
I just started gearing kylo again, got a minor power boost
@Darivon
I was testing that AoE more or less, wasn't sure if I should use Outrage yet. Killed him 1 turn later for 7.3k dmg @ 01:24
Yeah - I'm telling you - that other fight you would have won. Vent with O up and adv...that's heavy stuff. He's lucky she didn't crit on Jinn or Leia..they would have been toast. Her passive O up and AOE is absolutely perfect vs this glass cannon build. It's clear in these videos. Then instead of fighting with other glass cannons, you use some tankier toons that can hold server in round 1 decently. Kylo is another great option hear as he has a passive in that as he's damaged he gets higher damage on his outrage. These are great passive tactics that can lead to the demise of this build.
See...that's the point...it's something - it's a base to start and tweak from. that's how you come up with counters. Something has promise, then you look for stuff to enhance it. That takes time though and trial and error. And that's my point always on this topic...we MAY be calling this OP way too early. Poe just hit 143 speed. I was thinking Kylo myself on this as an option along with other toons that I'm building (none mentioned as OP currently or even top tier)...but was not thinking Vent at all - yet she looks really perfect for countering this team with her passive. That's why I was liking Kylo - he has good health so he can take a hit or two..and if he's wounded he could come back and put a heavy hit on one of these glass cannons. Vent just can do that on all 5
Great job Cronoz. You just beat what looks like a max 7* top tier team with a 4* and 2x 6* toons. Is that Ventress even gear 8 yet? Since his team looks maxed out, your squad will only perform better over time as it matures relative to his maxed team.
Thanks for tagged me on this....glad to see that played out as suspected. Reinforces my desire to build Vent as a tactical tool going forward. That passive is a great skill.
Asajj is so slow that with sparcille's team she will never ever even get to even fire her AoE once, unless you entire team is speed buffing.
in 3 videos he posted, Vent was alive to hit in all 3...the AI doesn't FF weakest opponent necessarily. Slow or not, his tank toons are absorbing enough damage to soak it up and she's living. Check the vid above in the other thread.
Seriously this here is somewhat of a prime example of a "decent"/sound Character trait you have. Something a LOT of people are lacking nowadays.
You had a view/opinion on something. Doesn't matter if it's considered wrong or right or whatever. You changed the way you look on this specific circumstance/event, made adjustments and experienced different results in your reality. More in line with what you initially expected.
On top of that you documented all of that via visual proof of the situation at hand. Without deviating - into less usefull habits all of us have, like quarrelling or something - from your initial goal. From a human/my perspective this in itself is an accomplishment and you deserve nothing short than a decoration! Much respect to you!
And Thank you that you allowed us/everyone else to have a share in these events. No matter how small and/or insignificant they may seem to others.
Hopefully this will be seen and of use for some of the folks out there. (I mean your causal train. Not Poe or Nerfs or something).
If nothing else you may give yourself a "Pat on the back" for being a sound human being!
Edit: Just to clarify cause while re-reading it i realize this might be a bit "too deep".
I simply mean you COULD have started an arguement with me or others, you COULD have started throwing insults around, you COULD have blamed CG for creating an uneven playing field, you COULD have proceeded to hit "the wall" , you COULD have done so many things.
But you didn't. You did what was/seemed most "natural"/logic to/for you at any given moment. THAT is what i mean, THAT'S what deserves appreciation IMO.
Hope to see lesser 20 sec loss this way. Poor noel, he took back his spot right after. I'm adding @IM_UR_UPGRADE as well since he is on my "server" and might be interested in seeing noel took a loss. Off to sleep!
However...based on the reddit link posted that got a Dev's attention and going by the Dev's response, I think the topic of Poe is going to come to an end with a nerf before we can build long enough to go through the trial and error process of raising a counter. It will be really sad though if Poe ends up getting FOTP nerfed as well. He really will drop in value if he's nerfed in damage at all AND Poe is also nerfed. I promise on everything, FOTP is seen as he is because of Poe. When I had that speed build that killed Poe before he moved, FOTP was just another slow guy that got off one shot - even a 7* version. GS, Dooku, Sid, Rey, and Jinn ran circles around him. Once he's reduced back to being slow because of no Poe and he's hitting in his proper relative round...he will not be used nearly as much as he is today even if he's left untouched (including leaving bugs in place). You have higher speed options that do nearly as much damage.
I think the nerf crowd seems to have won another one. We will just wait and see. Maybe it's the right move...but I'd have preferred we get to 70 and sit there for a few weeks trying to build counters before throwing in the towel.
- "Identify" a possibly strong/"OP" toon
- Create LOTS of NERF threads
- Invite a LOT of NERF BUNNIES
- Get some "valid/logic" evidence, preferably from some of the "more respected"/LOUD community members
- --> Toon ends up on the .. WATCH LIST! Yeahhhh
- --> Possible Nerf/Adjustment happens
Won't become too much of a habit around hereEdit: I don't mean to disrespect the "nerf bunnies" - or anyone else for that matter - and/or their point of view! Thanks.
This is my concern. We already know Barriss was nerfed unjustly in hindsight - even if unchanged she wouldn't be factoring in against these builds at all. The game was way too immature and too many new toons were yet to be added. The game is still immature. New heroes will still be added later.
I don't understand why knowing this past recent history with a toon, why people don't have more patience. Poe's been 143 speed for what...like 6-7 days? Before we even hit cap lift there were nerf Poe threads. I think it's just moving way too fast without proper diligence being put in to defeating this setup first. I'm not saying it's going to be the wrong move, but I really don't think people KNOW it's a necessary move...just like they didn't know what was coming after Barriss. Remember all the Dooku threads too with Barriss? The guy is nowhere mentioned in these threads now. What if Dooku had been nerfed? Are we sure we won't look back at FOTP / Poe after a change and say something similar?
I'll have some happiness if they are nerfed actually. This topic has become so terribly beat in to the ground it's made the forums really intolerable and it drowns out actually good information. Will just be nice to have closure at this point...either way it goes.
Why don't you two start a nerf conspiracy against say ewok Scout and see how that works out for you.
Devs don't just take players words for it. They actually look at data.
So why did they nerf Barris than? Barriss would be no factor in the current meta.
This also makes no sense because Ewok Scout isn't the top meta. Poe is....just like Barriss was...that doesn't mean he always will be or necessarily that he deserves a nerf.
Because everyone was using her and she was freaking boss? I used her, I got really mad when she got nerfed. But honestly, she is still good she just doesn't fit the current meta, but she makes GW a cake walk.
Blaming the Barris nerf on anything but her data is ridiculous. You might as well blame the illuminati.
So if she isn't current meta now...and the devs are all knowing and used data and knew what was coming....why did they nerf her? Isn't it possible they caved to pressure early? Just like the caved to pressure and pulled Dooku from the start pack, despite him not being OP. That false information on Dooku has put newer players at a disadvantage. Poe has been planned for 143 as long as we know. Why are they just now reacting to this based on player feedback? What data are they really looking at if they need players to make long write-ups and then act off of that? Anyone playing would have known Poe getting faster was going to be strong. Why react now? Seems to me maybe they aren't using as much data as you think. Now if that is the case...and they are relying on player feedback...similar to Barriss, who's really the end-all authority that is making the call here? Even the most advanced players here do not have all toons built and maxed and have tested all possible combinations AND know how all new toons to be relased are going to factor in to the equation.
If the devs use data and look ahead they should already be aware of her relative position at this moment. None of this should be a surprise. She's a non-factor in PVP and that wouldn't be any different if she were untouched. If they knew what fate she was going to come up against anyway...why nerf her?
Meta is player driven, company can get an idea of what's happening but won't know for sure. There are at least hundreds of thousands of us and a few of them. They can't come up with the sheer number of ideas we can.
And who said they required a player write up? I saw the reddit thread, he didn't say "I have read this abd we are now going ti take action", he basically gave a hint that they are at the very least already looking into poe.
A lot of times things on paper look different than they play out. And it is pretty clear CG does not put a lot of time into testing. So th ings ate going to happen.
I can remember arguments when poe and phasma first came out on who was gong ti be better just reading their abilities, no one having used either. I got the impression that poe was going to be op just reading his abilities, so I steered clear of him; having learned my lesson from barriss.
If a character is too good to be true, don't get mad when they get brought back into line.
You keep referring to Barriss when she really wasn't OP at all. That Barriss nerf was premature and in hindsight totally unnecessary and you know it. No way that was based on forward looking data. She's garbage in top PVP meta now.
So if players set the meta..and players want meta nerfed, but yet players were also wrong on Barriss and her role going forward...again I ask, who's the authority here? Players so far seem to be a pretty bad overall source if you look at Barriss and the threads on Dooku from early on. Barriss should never have been nerfed and everyone freaking out over Dooku was ridiculous. Seems to me players overreact way to quick and have very short patience. We are not even much more than a week in on Poe at 143 and that's all the forums are about. Are you 100% sure this isn't just repeating the same past mistake? What confidence level are you that this time, the consensus has it pegged correctly?
I don't think you understand what players set the meta means. Players at the meta because 1 or 2 players find a build that is better than other builds. it isn't necessarily the best build, but it is better than what is being used currently. Queue thousands of copies. The meta is now set. You need a team at least that good if not better and it needs to be able to combat that specific build.
Players have no say in what happens in this game. We can say hey we wish it was this way, but it is no more than a suggestion. Tons of posts happened after the gw change, people were mad. They didn't cave, they stick to their guns. It would have been far easier for them to roll the change back but they didn't, because they don't just pander to players.
Barriss nerf was not unwarranted, she was freaking OP, she doesn't fit the meta BECAUSE she was nerfed, not despite it.
You keep saying forward looking data. They don't have a time machine they don't know what we are going to do to break their game. And we WILL break their game, because like I said we just have an astronomically higher combined IQ than they can ever hope for. All of their data is reactionary, sure they know what they are going to do next and they can have a little idea, but they can't know what we are going to do with it.
Just take it as a lesson learned, if you start to see tons of OP posts it is likely because the character is in some way OP, degrees don't matter and how doesn't matter, because they will hit that character with the nerf bat so hard they won't be in anyone's line up in a week.
Tell me how, looking at these videos vs. Poe - would barriss unnerfed make any impact at all? Her heal was reduced significantly - the point everyone is making about Poe is that everything dies before it has a chance to move. If that's true and there's no hope to counter Poe without nefing him...what difference would Barriss's original heal make if her allies are dead? How could she still be OP and in the meta now? Shocking you're still sticking to her as being OP given what we know and see now, that's just way off man and you're not budging off that to prove a point.
Also on your last comment about number of OP posts...so was Dooku OP? Is Dooku OP? There was no shortage of Dooku posts - they were as common as Barriss at the time. If I went by every OP / nerf thread on a toon I wouldn't build anything but Ewoks. So what lesson would I learn? Should I just build the weakest toons to avoid a possible nerf?
Lastly, if the OP nerf threads are an endless cycle of nerf threads...just like an onion...as you start to peel back the layers of meta...nerfing the top layer as you go...is anything theoretically safe? Don't you just continually nerf the top meta over and over and then it's next toon up?
It's nothing personal dude. In fact i don't really care what happens to Poe anymore. Things will be how they will be. I've voiced my opinion - no matter if it's the right one or a wrong one or a silly one - some while ago. From the looks of it = the amount of nerf threads, it didn't have that much of an impact on the "public" opinion whatsoever. That's neither good nor bad. It is how it is. I accept it and make personal adjustments. --> All good.
Regarding @JohnnySteelAlpha Well .. all i can say is that i KNOW what kind of UPHILL battle he was "fighting" in CG's other game Heroes of Dragon Age. Cause i've read a lot of the stuff he "contributed" over there. I wasn't concerned with it since i was not posting there. I just frequently visited the Forum in search for opinions on different toons and/or strategies how to optimize those.
And to be honest, especially in the last case i witnessed - When CG released/sold a toon called "Advisor Leliana" - which seemed "Overpowered" and was deemed like the toon that "singlehandedly broke" the game - cause it provided certain immunities to an already "Overpowered Group" of toons - I felt dreadfully sorry for him. Really i was almost pitying him. And was asking myself more than once:"Why is he doing it? Is it passion? Does he really love this game THAT much to go through so much trouble to try and calm the people. To show them different options. To point out REASON and LOGIC? Was/is it worth it (for him) ?"
All of the HATE/NEGATIVITY towards him/his point of view on this matter was more than shocking. (Not that it could have dented his reputation cause he really has done A LOT for HoDA.)
Of course, cause people spent HUGE $$ to obtain this new toon and it was NERFED within A WEEK of the release. Imagine! WITHIN A WEEK?! THAT fast ?!
There WERE huge guilds who represented a LOT OF $$ (for CG) who WANTED THAT TOON NERFED. Cause it made a lot of their previous investments/toons obsolete. And CG bowed. WITHIN A WEEK! It was a HUGE OUTCRY. And rather "amusing" to watch/read how it unfolded.
It was a prime example of HOW opinions = in this case the amount of cash, cause ALL of them were threatening CG that they would stop spending, some with actual numbers on HOW MUCH THE GUILD spends/spent, CAN influence the decisions the devs of CG make.
Make no mistake according to all the stuff he contributed and all the praise he earned for doing so, he was/is one the most respected members of the HoDA community over there. Who probably had nothing more than the BALANCE of the Game in mind. Yet when it comes to real $$ there IS NO FRIEND in community. And all possible balance reasons aside , people WANT WHAT THEY PAID FOR. Justifiable.
So for me, from the "outside" not directly involved in all those debates, it seemed like he was pretty much ALONE with his voice of reason against a MAJORITY that had a certain demand and voiced their opinions, sometimes packaged in "less than friendly" posts/threads. I felt truly sorry for him.
Don't know that much what happened thereafter since i left HoDA - and all of my "investments" - shortly after that.
So, i hope Johnny doesn't mind that i took this example and that i pictured the events of this case in an acceptable manner.
The idea of all of the above was just to show HOW MUCH actually, stuff/feedback that people post on the forum (=Nerf threads) CAN influence CG in THEIR decisions regarding BALANCE.
Which in itself is actually a really good sign. Speaks FOR CG and that they DO indeed listen to feedback and tend to react rather sooner than later.
It's a very difficult balance act to balance the game (hah what a pun) for EVERY POSSIBLE point of view. All that while maintaining a decent clashflow and hitting certain treshholds. But .. that's what they get paid for, right ?
Edit: I forgot to mention that after the Nerf of Advisior Leliana CG rolled out a "generous compensation" for what it felt like EVERY ACCOUNT that bought that toon within a certain timeframe.