When does DAZE apply?

Prana_lama
158 posts Member
edited December 2016
While using Darth Maul against heroes that counter attack like 5s and Aayla his Whirling Blades aoe applies DAZE which shouldn't let them counter attack. They always seem to counter the whirling blades as though they didn't have daze even though they have the icon above them. After that it works as intended but not on the applying attack. Is this working as intended? @EA_Jesse
Post edited by Prana_lama on

Replies

  • scuba
    14047 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    Edit: changed due to other points.
    Post edited by scuba on
  • That's contradictory to dispelling buffs though. When dispelling buffs, the buff is dispelled first, then damage is applied. I'd think it should be the same for debuffs...
    FN 2187, Mighty Chlorians (spelt with a lowercase l not a capital I): Heroic AAT Guide, The Gear Grind
  • scuba
    14047 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    benacrow wrote: »
    That's contradictory to dispelling buffs though. When dispelling buffs, the buff is dispelled first, then damage is applied. I'd think it should be the same for debuffs...

    going off of what I have seen with tmr vs Biggs which is really the only one I can think of that one debuff stops counters a buff.

    Biggs TM gain happens first than tmr.
  • scuba wrote: »
    Debuffs seem to apply at the end of the turn.

    1. Start turn
    2. Attack
    3. Opponent processes unique Counter/TM gain etc
    4. Apply debuff
    5. End turn

    This doesn't hold up in the situation of EP basic attack on Savage. The shock applies before savage applies his buffs and TM.
  • scuba wrote: »
    benacrow wrote: »
    That's contradictory to dispelling buffs though. When dispelling buffs, the buff is dispelled first, then damage is applied. I'd think it should be the same for debuffs...

    going off of what I have seen with tmr vs Biggs which is really the only one I can think of that one debuff stops counters a buff.

    Biggs TM gain happens first than tmr.

    Which is where the tactic of using teebo against GH comes in. Use him on the last hit on GG.
    Don't be a ****(4), and follow forum guidelines.
  • Can we just be frank.


    Tons of things in this game work totally different in game than on paper.

    Quit arguing about how moves are suppose to proc over what when the game is broken to begin with
  • xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Can we just be frank.


    Tons of things in this game work totally different in game than on paper.

    Quit arguing about how moves are suppose to proc over what when the game is broken to begin with

    Staying on topic I'm just trying to clear up if something is working as intended or not. Small details are important and need to be addressed and eventually are addressed once understood like the stun mechanics with Ayla's counter. If she stunned on a counter the stun resolved that turn. That changed to have the stun remain until the next turn. This is a huge discrepancy due to a minor change in clearing up a bug if it doesn't work as intended.
  • scuba wrote: »
    Debuffs seem to apply at the end of the turn.

    1. Start turn
    2. Attack
    3. Opponent processes unique Counter/TM gain etc
    4. Apply debuff
    5. End turn

    That isn't true at all, just stun anyone that counter attacks and you will see the difference
  • Allenb60 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Debuffs seem to apply at the end of the turn.

    1. Start turn
    2. Attack
    3. Opponent processes unique Counter/TM gain etc
    4. Apply debuff
    5. End turn

    That isn't true at all, just stun anyone that counter attacks and you will see the difference

    Exactly!
  • Prana_lama wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Can we just be frank.


    Tons of things in this game work totally different in game than on paper.

    Quit arguing about how moves are suppose to proc over what when the game is broken to begin with

    Staying on topic I'm just trying to clear up if something is working as intended or not. Small details are important and need to be addressed and eventually are addressed once understood like the stun mechanics with Ayla's counter. If she stunned on a counter the stun resolved that turn. That changed to have the stun remain until the next turn. This is a huge discrepancy due to a minor change in clearing up a bug if it doesn't work as intended.


    Well that was kind of my point


    Who knows if it's working as intended because working as intended on paper compared to how it translates in game is a whole different story
  • scuba
    14047 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    Allenb60 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Debuffs seem to apply at the end of the turn.

    1. Start turn
    2. Attack
    3. Opponent processes unique Counter/TM gain etc
    4. Apply debuff
    5. End turn

    That isn't true at all, just stun anyone that counter attacks and you will see the difference

    As said above tm gain and tmr was the ones I thought of off the bat.

    But yes forgot about stun. Never used ep vs Savage so definitely would not have seen that.
  • scuba
    14047 posts Member
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Can we just be frank.


    Tons of things in this game work totally different in game than on paper.

    Quit arguing about how moves are suppose to proc over what when the game is broken to begin with

    I don't see an argument but a discussion

    This has been posted in General Discussion which is well where general discussions go. If OP really wants it looked at should submit to the bugs and feedback section which is for well bugs and feed back. @CG_Kozispoon hangs out there and normally responds to that section.
  • scuba wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Can we just be frank.


    Tons of things in this game work totally different in game than on paper.

    Quit arguing about how moves are suppose to proc over what when the game is broken to begin with

    I don't see an argument but a discussion

    This has been posted in General Discussion which is well where general discussions go. If OP really wants it looked at should submit to the bugs and feedback section which is for well bugs and feed back. @CG_Kozispoon hangs out there and normally responds to that section.


    Yes all mighty scuba of august a discussion
  • xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Prana_lama wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Can we just be frank.


    Tons of things in this game work totally different in game than on paper.

    Quit arguing about how moves are suppose to proc over what when the game is broken to begin with

    Staying on topic I'm just trying to clear up if something is working as intended or not. Small details are important and need to be addressed and eventually are addressed once understood like the stun mechanics with Ayla's counter. If she stunned on a counter the stun resolved that turn. That changed to have the stun remain until the next turn. This is a huge discrepancy due to a minor change in clearing up a bug if it doesn't work as intended.


    Well that was kind of my point


    Who knows if it's working as intended because working as intended on paper compared to how it translates in game is a whole different story

    Your totally right about that, some things work as you would expect while others don't.
    One example is when a character dodges they are sometimes still affected by a de-buff or turn meter reduction, but if they dodge a dispel attack they will not lose their other buffs, while if your character dispels a crit immunity buff they can still be critically hit on the same attack, so there really isn't any consistency
  • xReDeMpx
    1690 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    Allenb60 wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Prana_lama wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Can we just be frank.


    Tons of things in this game work totally different in game than on paper.

    Quit arguing about how moves are suppose to proc over what when the game is broken to begin with

    Staying on topic I'm just trying to clear up if something is working as intended or not. Small details are important and need to be addressed and eventually are addressed once understood like the stun mechanics with Ayla's counter. If she stunned on a counter the stun resolved that turn. That changed to have the stun remain until the next turn. This is a huge discrepancy due to a minor change in clearing up a bug if it doesn't work as intended.


    Well that was kind of my point


    Who knows if it's working as intended because working as intended on paper compared to how it translates in game is a whole different story

    Your totally right about that, some things work as you would expect while others don't.
    One example is when a character dodges they are sometimes still affected by a de-buff or turn meter reduction, but if they dodge a dispel attack they will not lose their other buffs, while if your character dispels a crit immunity buff they can still be critically hit on the same attack, so there really isn't any consistency


    This.


    There's a lot of broken and things not working "As intended" but people need to understand paper translations don't translate the same in actual game code and in progress
  • scuba
    14047 posts Member
    Allenb60 wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Prana_lama wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Can we just be frank.


    Tons of things in this game work totally different in game than on paper.

    Quit arguing about how moves are suppose to proc over what when the game is broken to begin with

    Staying on topic I'm just trying to clear up if something is working as intended or not. Small details are important and need to be addressed and eventually are addressed once understood like the stun mechanics with Ayla's counter. If she stunned on a counter the stun resolved that turn. That changed to have the stun remain until the next turn. This is a huge discrepancy due to a minor change in clearing up a bug if it doesn't work as intended.


    Well that was kind of my point


    Who knows if it's working as intended because working as intended on paper compared to how it translates in game is a whole different story

    Your totally right about that, some things work as you would expect while others don't.
    One example is when a character dodges they are sometimes still affected by a de-buff or turn meter reduction, but if they dodge a dispel attack they will not lose their other buffs, while if your character dispels a crit immunity buff they can still be critically hit on the same attack, so there really isn't any consistency

    Off topic.. Dispel was set to happen before damage applied because of QGJ vs Savage.
  • Just like bobba execute can still crit through crit immunity.

    And we can play the well this and that game all night.

    Why is the sky blue
  • scuba
    14047 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Just like bobba execute can still crit through crit immunity.

    And we can play the well this and that game all night.

    Why is the sky blue

    Off topic.
    http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html
  • scuba wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Just like bobba execute can still crit through crit immunity.

    And we can play the well this and that game all night.

    Why is the sky blue

    Off topic.
    http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html

    At least one thing is working as intended
  • scuba
    14047 posts Member
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Just like bobba execute can still crit through crit immunity.

    And we can play the well this and that game all night.

    Why is the sky blue

    Off topic.
    http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html

    At least one thing is working as intended

    Lol
  • scuba wrote: »
    Allenb60 wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Prana_lama wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Can we just be frank.


    Tons of things in this game work totally different in game than on paper.

    Quit arguing about how moves are suppose to proc over what when the game is broken to begin with

    Staying on topic I'm just trying to clear up if something is working as intended or not. Small details are important and need to be addressed and eventually are addressed once understood like the stun mechanics with Ayla's counter. If she stunned on a counter the stun resolved that turn. That changed to have the stun remain until the next turn. This is a huge discrepancy due to a minor change in clearing up a bug if it doesn't work as intended.


    Well that was kind of my point


    Who knows if it's working as intended because working as intended on paper compared to how it translates in game is a whole different story

    Your totally right about that, some things work as you would expect while others don't.
    One example is when a character dodges they are sometimes still affected by a de-buff or turn meter reduction, but if they dodge a dispel attack they will not lose their other buffs, while if your character dispels a crit immunity buff they can still be critically hit on the same attack, so there really isn't any consistency

    Off topic.. Dispel was set to happen before damage applied because of QGJ vs Savage.

    The question is when does the Dazed effect apply, and other scenarios can give multiple answers, so I think that would make my statement sort of relevant? It just is weird that the dispel occurs before damage even though you would expect that dealing damage would cause the dispel
  • scuba
    14047 posts Member
    Allenb60 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Allenb60 wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Prana_lama wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Can we just be frank.


    Tons of things in this game work totally different in game than on paper.

    Quit arguing about how moves are suppose to proc over what when the game is broken to begin with

    Staying on topic I'm just trying to clear up if something is working as intended or not. Small details are important and need to be addressed and eventually are addressed once understood like the stun mechanics with Ayla's counter. If she stunned on a counter the stun resolved that turn. That changed to have the stun remain until the next turn. This is a huge discrepancy due to a minor change in clearing up a bug if it doesn't work as intended.


    Well that was kind of my point


    Who knows if it's working as intended because working as intended on paper compared to how it translates in game is a whole different story

    Your totally right about that, some things work as you would expect while others don't.
    One example is when a character dodges they are sometimes still affected by a de-buff or turn meter reduction, but if they dodge a dispel attack they will not lose their other buffs, while if your character dispels a crit immunity buff they can still be critically hit on the same attack, so there really isn't any consistency

    Off topic.. Dispel was set to happen before damage applied because of QGJ vs Savage.

    The question is when does the Dazed effect apply, and other scenarios can give multiple answers, so I think that would make my statement sort of relevant? It just is weird that the dispel occurs before damage even though you would expect that dealing damage would cause the dispel

    Sorry. I meant my comment was off topic. Just something I remember from long ago.
    QGJ was able to hit Savage with humbling blow, when he had no buffs, and gain offense up.
    Many complained about that so it was changed so dispel happens first than damage.

    Now with crit immunity we are seeing the opposite problem.
  • scuba wrote: »
    Allenb60 wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    Allenb60 wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Prana_lama wrote: »
    xReDeMpx wrote: »
    Can we just be frank.


    Tons of things in this game work totally different in game than on paper.

    Quit arguing about how moves are suppose to proc over what when the game is broken to begin with

    Staying on topic I'm just trying to clear up if something is working as intended or not. Small details are important and need to be addressed and eventually are addressed once understood like the stun mechanics with Ayla's counter. If she stunned on a counter the stun resolved that turn. That changed to have the stun remain until the next turn. This is a huge discrepancy due to a minor change in clearing up a bug if it doesn't work as intended.


    Well that was kind of my point


    Who knows if it's working as intended because working as intended on paper compared to how it translates in game is a whole different story

    Your totally right about that, some things work as you would expect while others don't.
    One example is when a character dodges they are sometimes still affected by a de-buff or turn meter reduction, but if they dodge a dispel attack they will not lose their other buffs, while if your character dispels a crit immunity buff they can still be critically hit on the same attack, so there really isn't any consistency

    Off topic.. Dispel was set to happen before damage applied because of QGJ vs Savage.

    The question is when does the Dazed effect apply, and other scenarios can give multiple answers, so I think that would make my statement sort of relevant? It just is weird that the dispel occurs before damage even though you would expect that dealing damage would cause the dispel

    Sorry. I meant my comment was off topic. Just something I remember from long ago.
    QGJ was able to hit Savage with humbling blow, when he had no buffs, and gain offense up.
    Many complained about that so it was changed so dispel happens first than damage.

    Now with crit immunity we are seeing the opposite problem.

    My bad, I didn't recognize what you meant but now I remember that change, that would explain a lot of things
  • Agree with OP. The swirly is over enemy fives and he counters Everytime.
  • scuba
    14047 posts Member
    So to sum up maul is still horrible
  • scuba wrote: »
    So to sum up maul is still horrible

    This lol
  • RJ__Brando
    1500 posts Moderator
    scuba wrote: »
    So to sum up maul is still horrible

    Until we can test him with zeta lead.....yes
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