If Teebo can't be fixed can he PLEASE just be reworked (in a very simple way)

TLDR - Teebo could be easily fixed just by making his Scramble Tactics have a much shorter cooldown (without having to address the stealth bug directly).


After just having had another nightmare rancor raid where my team failed spectacularly for no other reason than the Teebo stealth bug, I feel the need to make a very simple suggestion.

We all know Teebo is bugged and we know that (apparently) the bug is much more complex than it seems according to the devs. At the moment when he uses his Scramble Tactics special ability the 3 turns of stealth end up being 1 turn unless you are very lucky. This is because his leader ability gives him a 55% chance to gain stealth (and equivalently a 45% chance to lose stealth) at the start of each turn and this overwrites the special.


So can I suggest a simple rework:

- Leave his leader ability exactly as it is.

- Leave his scramble tactics special exactly as it is (bug and all) but reduce the cooldown to 3 turns rather than the 6 turns as currently.

This will mean that we have a lot more control of when Teebo can be stealthed (as we don't have to wait 5 turns to use it again) and we will get effectively the same total number of turns in stealth as we should have (but don't get) currently.

Replies

  • Twin
    527 posts Member
    On average I usually have 2 turns left of cool down when things go south. So I think reducing the cool down by 3 is probably too much. I would probably go with reduction at 2. This still leaves some RNG at play which I think is ok.

    I honestly think they don't fix the bug because even with it people still use teebo quite successfully for rancor.

    They have stated to fix the bug they would basically have to rewrite the stealth mechanic. Since teebo is still useful as is and the work involved for one character only... there seems to be other things to work on.

    Personally I think the teebo/rancor dynamic is as close to broken without being broken as can be. When guilds can beat heroic in 30 minutes, somethings up imho. They should increase the tenacity of rancor by a bit.

    I don't think any raid should have an infinite freeze of the boss like that.
  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    Yeah that might be to much as he will always be stealthed.
    When it is working right he will come out of stealth with CD showing 3 so dropping it by 3 means when not lead he could always be stealthed and never loose a turn because of the 100% TM gain.
  • Okay - points taken! But reducing the cooldown would be a very easy fix.
  • An easy fix that may cause issues.

    I don't think it will be fixed as when they created the mechanic they did not realise how broken it could be against the rancor with potency mods.

    If they fix it could have a chance of breaking other areas of the game.
  • How would adjusting the cooldown affect other areas of the game?
  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    An easy fix that may cause issues.

    I don't think it will be fixed as when they created the mechanic they did not realise how broken it could be against the rancor with potency mods.

    If they fix it could have a chance of breaking other areas of the game.

    The mechanic was created before rancor raids and mods. IMO they completely expected teebo to be king in rancor raid. TMR was made resistable right before rancor raid was released.
  • I really don't see how it could be that hard to fix unless the original code was a huge steaming pile of kludge in the first place. Given how many bugs keep occurring and reoccurring I suppose that that is possible, the code doesn't seem to contain anything but kludge sometimes.
  • This isn't a Teebo bug. It is how buffs and debuffs work in the game. If Teebo procs his stealth for one turn because he was the leader then it will overwrite his three turn buff. That simple. This applies to any buff or debuff that can only be applied once each.

    One way to fix this would be to apply the longest remaining version of each buff and debuff as it is applied. Then everyone would be happy again.
  • Allenb60
    2171 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    What if it gave him some unique buff for three turns instead of stealth, and if he deals damage with that buff he will gain stealth for one turn? I think the ability could keep the six turn cool-down if it worked like that?
  • I don't think Teebo is broken. So you use scramble tactics and he goes stealth but then his leader ability kicks in next turn and he loses stealth. Well that's the risk you take running him as a leader. Unfortunately his leader doesn't say 55% chance for non-stealthed allies to go stealth. Everyone just wants him stealthed forever so they can take Rancor all by themselves. But if you're really having problems you can just retreat and replay until RNG works in your favor. Might be annoying but that's the best you can do.
  • Actually, the easiest fix would be to change the ability description to match what is happening. Other toons need a rework more. For example, all of the toons you don't ever use. Teebo is one of the most used toons
  • Apoc88 wrote: »
    I don't think Teebo is broken. So you use scramble tactics and he goes stealth but then his leader ability kicks in next turn and he loses stealth. Well that's the risk you take running him as a leader. Unfortunately his leader doesn't say 55% chance for non-stealthed allies to go stealth. Everyone just wants him stealthed forever so they can take Rancor all by themselves. But if you're really having problems you can just retreat and replay until RNG works in your favor. Might be annoying but that's the best you can do.

    It's clearly broken. "Allies have a 55% chance to gain stealth at the beginning of their turns". It says nothing about removing stealth for those that have it already.

    Honestly though, this bug should be a trivial fix. Just don't roll teebo's leadership ability pertaining to stealth for allies that are already stealthed. I know that this fix was attempted In the past and somehow failed.. but that outcome can't logically be possible if the fix was correctly implemented. If you create a conditional statement that doesn't apply, then there's no difference in the rest of the execution. When the conditional statement does apply, then it should make the stealth roll as it works now, and there shouldn't be any issues here. I remember something about this fix always forcing teebo out of stealth after one or two turns were taken, but again, this isn't even logically possible when the fix is correctly implemented.
  • MetxChris wrote: »
    Apoc88 wrote: »
    I don't think Teebo is broken. So you use scramble tactics and he goes stealth but then his leader ability kicks in next turn and he loses stealth. Well that's the risk you take running him as a leader. Unfortunately his leader doesn't say 55% chance for non-stealthed allies to go stealth. Everyone just wants him stealthed forever so they can take Rancor all by themselves. But if you're really having problems you can just retreat and replay until RNG works in your favor. Might be annoying but that's the best you can do.

    It's clearly broken. "Allies have a 55% chance to gain stealth at the beginning of their turns". It says nothing about removing stealth for those that have it already.

    Honestly though, this bug should be a trivial fix. Just don't roll teebo's leadership ability pertaining to stealth for allies that are already stealthed. I know that this fix was attempted In the past and somehow failed.. but that outcome can't logically be possible if the fix was correctly implemented. If you create a conditional statement that doesn't apply, then there's no difference in the rest of the execution. When the conditional statement does apply, then it should make the stealth roll as it works now, and there shouldn't be any issues here. I remember something about this fix always forcing teebo out of stealth after one or two turns were taken, but again, this isn't even logically possible when the fix is correctly implemented.

    This......
  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    MetxChris wrote: »
    Apoc88 wrote: »
    I don't think Teebo is broken. So you use scramble tactics and he goes stealth but then his leader ability kicks in next turn and he loses stealth. Well that's the risk you take running him as a leader. Unfortunately his leader doesn't say 55% chance for non-stealthed allies to go stealth. Everyone just wants him stealthed forever so they can take Rancor all by themselves. But if you're really having problems you can just retreat and replay until RNG works in your favor. Might be annoying but that's the best you can do.

    It's clearly broken. "Allies have a 55% chance to gain stealth at the beginning of their turns". It says nothing about removing stealth for those that have it already.

    Honestly though, this bug should be a trivial fix. Just don't roll teebo's leadership ability pertaining to stealth for allies that are already stealthed. I know that this fix was attempted In the past and somehow failed.. but that outcome can't logically be possible if the fix was correctly implemented. If you create a conditional statement that doesn't apply, then there's no difference in the rest of the execution. When the conditional statement does apply, then it should make the stealth roll as it works now, and there shouldn't be any issues here. I remember something about this fix always forcing teebo out of stealth after one or two turns were taken, but again, this isn't even logically possible when the fix is correctly implemented.

    It failed because it was basically checked before the last turn stealth would wear off not allowing multiple turn stealth from lead. Ended up being even worse.
  • MetxChris
    112 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    scuba wrote: »
    MetxChris wrote: »
    Apoc88 wrote: »
    I don't think Teebo is broken. So you use scramble tactics and he goes stealth but then his leader ability kicks in next turn and he loses stealth. Well that's the risk you take running him as a leader. Unfortunately his leader doesn't say 55% chance for non-stealthed allies to go stealth. Everyone just wants him stealthed forever so they can take Rancor all by themselves. But if you're really having problems you can just retreat and replay until RNG works in your favor. Might be annoying but that's the best you can do.

    It's clearly broken. "Allies have a 55% chance to gain stealth at the beginning of their turns". It says nothing about removing stealth for those that have it already.

    Honestly though, this bug should be a trivial fix. Just don't roll teebo's leadership ability pertaining to stealth for allies that are already stealthed. I know that this fix was attempted In the past and somehow failed.. but that outcome can't logically be possible if the fix was correctly implemented. If you create a conditional statement that doesn't apply, then there's no difference in the rest of the execution. When the conditional statement does apply, then it should make the stealth roll as it works now, and there shouldn't be any issues here. I remember something about this fix always forcing teebo out of stealth after one or two turns were taken, but again, this isn't even logically possible when the fix is correctly implemented.

    It failed because it was basically checked before the last turn stealth would wear off not allowing multiple turn stealth from lead. Ended up being even worse.

    Why on earth would the stealth check occur before the current stealth is allowed to wear off? Just make the check afterwards. Done.
  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    MetxChris wrote: »
    scuba wrote: »
    MetxChris wrote: »
    Apoc88 wrote: »
    I don't think Teebo is broken. So you use scramble tactics and he goes stealth but then his leader ability kicks in next turn and he loses stealth. Well that's the risk you take running him as a leader. Unfortunately his leader doesn't say 55% chance for non-stealthed allies to go stealth. Everyone just wants him stealthed forever so they can take Rancor all by themselves. But if you're really having problems you can just retreat and replay until RNG works in your favor. Might be annoying but that's the best you can do.

    It's clearly broken. "Allies have a 55% chance to gain stealth at the beginning of their turns". It says nothing about removing stealth for those that have it already.

    Honestly though, this bug should be a trivial fix. Just don't roll teebo's leadership ability pertaining to stealth for allies that are already stealthed. I know that this fix was attempted In the past and somehow failed.. but that outcome can't logically be possible if the fix was correctly implemented. If you create a conditional statement that doesn't apply, then there's no difference in the rest of the execution. When the conditional statement does apply, then it should make the stealth roll as it works now, and there shouldn't be any issues here. I remember something about this fix always forcing teebo out of stealth after one or two turns were taken, but again, this isn't even logically possible when the fix is correctly implemented.

    It failed because it was basically checked before the last turn stealth would wear off not allowing multiple turn stealth from lead. Ended up being even worse.

    Why on earth would the stealth check occur before the current stealth is allowed to wear off? Just make the check afterwards. Done.

    i don't know why it was done that way but the way it responded with the "fix" seems like that was what it was doing
  • Kozispoon
    3245 posts EA Staff (retired)
    Thank you for your patience 8D Forum Guidelines
  • @CG_Kozispoon - thanks for responding but i don't think this really addresses the point.

    We know that you are aware of the bug and trying to fix it but Jesse's post was over 4 months ago and nothing has changed since then.

    Can you let us know if/when the Teebo bug will be fixed? And if it can't be fixed can we have some sort of alternative solution as discussed in this thread?

    Having a key character broken for so long with no recent updates about the bug fix status is very demoralizing for the players.
  • Also, the Teebo bug appeared on the list of things being investigated AFTER the 8/5 post. So if you guys felt the 8/5 post was the answer what we're you investigating?

    We're just wanting an update on where this standsite 6 months after it became an issue, 4 months after Jesse said you were stumped and nearly two months after you said you were investigating.

    A simple blurb with an update or even stating that you guys are still working and testing fixes every week or two would prevent threads like this from happening.
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