Watch the Christmas special. Even makes the prequels become good
The Christmas special is definitely the worst thing ever produced with the STAR WARS brand.
100% agree
I am a star wars nut - owning all movies, even the terrible 2 Ewok movies, but the Christmas Special is where I draw the line.
I enjoyed the 2 Ewok movies for what they were. The original Anthology movies. Considering how little special FX were required, it still felt "sci-fi" to me.
Plus the 2nd one, "Battle for Endor" had more on-screen deaths than a typical family movie.
Here's a scary thought: Would animating (or Special Edition'ing) The Christmas Special into something that looks a LOT less like **** work? Keeping some of the dialogue and live-action shots of the principle characters, but getting rid of what most people would consider the worst parts visually.
I parts I did like were:
-Han and Chewie escaping the Star Destroyers
-Luke working on his X-Wing
-mini animated story
Which seriously needs to be re-animated to look more like it's part of OT timeline. Side job for Filoni?
Could it be cut up and re-done into something salvageable?
Some good ideas there, but as the saying goes...throwing good money after bad?
Watch the Christmas special. Even makes the prequels become good
The Christmas special is definitely the worst thing ever produced with the STAR WARS brand.
100% agree
I am a star wars nut - owning all movies, even the terrible 2 Ewok movies, but the Christmas Special is where I draw the line.
I enjoyed the 2 Ewok movies for what they were. The original Anthology movies. Considering how little special FX were required, it still felt "sci-fi" to me.
Plus the 2nd one, "Battle for Endor" had more on-screen deaths than a typical family movie.
Here's a scary thought: Would animating (or Special Edition'ing) The Christmas Special into something that looks a LOT less like **** work? Keeping some of the dialogue and live-action shots of the principle characters, but getting rid of what most people would consider the worst parts visually.
I parts I did like were:
-Han and Chewie escaping the Star Destroyers
-Luke working on his X-Wing
-mini animated story
Which seriously needs to be re-animated to look more like it's part of OT timeline. Side job for Filoni?
Could it be cut up and re-done into something salvageable?
Some good ideas there, but as the saying goes...throwing good money after bad?
I'd rather the money be spent updating the CGI in the Original Trilogy.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
Rogue one relied on nostalgia and familiar imagery to engage the audience. Every single thing that was good about it was only good because it was ripped directly out of the original trilogy. It didnt bring anything new to the saga.
The characters in rogue one were one dimensional at best and merely vessels for the story and script. In the original trilogy and TFA, we see how relationships between characters grow and evolve and we care about them. Since we know who they are, what their motivations are, and whats at stake for them, we care about the action sequences and are drawn in. In rogue one, we have to be told how characters act instead of showing us who they are.
Rogue one was far more complicated and cluttered than it had to be. The plot is simple: rebel spys steal the plans to the death star. But the first 30 minutes is spent planet hopping trying to introduce us to all these different characters and plot points instead of focusing on and following a main character's adventure. While im ok with the writers trying something darker, im not ok with them taking away that sense of wonder and adventure that keeps us engaged.
I could go on, but for now, if you have a rebuttal, please be specific and ill respond with enthusiasm.
Rogue one relied on nostalgia and familiar imagery to engage the audience. Every single thing that was good about it was only good because it was ripped directly out of the original trilogy. It didnt bring anything new to the saga.
The characters in rogue one were one dimensional at best and merely vessels for the story and script. In the original trilogy and TFA, we see how relationships between characters grow and evolve and we care about them. Since we know who they are, what their motivations are, and whats at stake for them, we care about the action sequences and are drawn in. In rogue one, we have to be told how characters act instead of showing us who they are.
Rogue one was far more complicated and cluttered than it had to be. The plot is simple: rebel spys steal the plans to the death star. But the first 30 minutes is spent planet hopping trying to introduce us to all these different characters and plot points instead of focusing on and following a main character's adventure. While im ok with the writers trying something darker, im not ok with them taking away that sense of wonder and adventure that keeps us engaged.
I could go on, but for now, if you have a rebuttal, please be specific and ill respond with enthusiasm.
coughEpisodecough7coughcough
Believe me, im fully aware of how similar TFA is to ANH. There are more similarities between those than rogue one. But my point is that the best parts of TFA were the things we hadn't seen before. What were the best parts of Rogue One? It wasn't the characters, the plot, the new worlds, or the writing. The best parts of Rogue One were Darth Vader, the ending that led up to ANH, AT ATs, the Death Star blowing things up, etc. My point is that these are all things we've seen before, just with updated visuals to make it eye candy. The best parts of TFA were the characters, the writing, the sense of adventure, and the emotional investment of both the crew and the audience.
I've always believed star wars should be more than shallow eye candy. Yes, it has incredible visuals, but those visuals only exist to enhance the heart and passion of the story and characters. Rogue One looked like a star wars movie but its all surface level. Once you take away the "look" of the movie, you're left with something as bland and boring as the prequels. If you think fancy visuals and explosions are more important that emotive characters with real heart and engaging stories, then go watch a michael bay movie. Leave that trash out of star wars.
Also, id like to point out that even though TFA's story is nearly identical to ANH, its a story that works on its own. The story is only a problem when you compare it to other movies, not when seen on its own. If TFA was the first star wars movie you ever saw, you could have a good time. When i say it doesnt rely on fan service, thats what i mean.
Rogue One only works because it assumes the audience's prior knowledge of star wars. If you dont know anything about star wars, you dont know anything about the empire, rebellion, tarkin, jedi, the force, vader, AT ATs, etc. Sure, some of these things are explained but most wont make any sense (like the entire last ten minutes).
True, neither Rogue One or The Force Awakens were perfect. Both had different problems.
I liked both, but favor RO way more.
RO put me back in the OT time period (again). It's a time period I "live" in frequently. Ranging from old PC games, ol' Shadows of the Empire, and most obviously, the toys. Plus the time period made me like Rebels more than I would of.
I went into Rebels with metaphorically speaking, a stern face with crossed arms look, because it was the source of my loss. Namely The Clone Wars.
Clone Wars => space battles, Clones, multiple Jedi on-screen, various Battle Droids, Sith using Lightsabers often, Hondo, etc....good stuff to me.
Anyways, both films gave me what I wanted to see:
Rogue One => Y-Wings and "real" X-Wings vs "real" TIE Fighters, that shot of the X-Wing exiting hyperspace into the battle (video game feeling right there), vintage Star Destroyers, Corellian Corvettes and Nebulon-B Frigates in action, and Darth Vader doing stuff, though the music wasn't vintage, it was close enough.
The Force Awakens => OT cast on-screen together (we kind of that), the Falcon, new Star Destroyer, new characters interacting with OT cast, old OT stuff referenced (which they did a lot on Jakku).
Stuff That Bugged Me:
RO => Krennic's shuttle, why does he get a fancy ship? Vader and Palpatine used the standard shuttle. It's a uniformity thing with the Empire. No prequel stuff referenced in the movie, verbal or visual. Example: use of rusted old ships, old B1 Battle Droid heads hanging off a wall, etc
TFA => no advanced ships, (though the FO Troop Transport was kinda cool. Resistance Troop Transport? Interesting). But the biggest offenders were the X-Wing "variant" and the TIE "variant", and Starkiller Base.
When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
Started mid-FEB 2017, and not trying to reach the top.
Also, id like to point out that even though TFA's story is nearly identical to ANH, its a story that works on its own. The story is only a problem when you compare it to other movies, not when seen on its own. If TFA was the first star wars movie you ever saw, you could have a good time. When i say it doesnt rely on fan service, thats what i mean.
Rogue One only works because it assumes the audience's prior knowledge of star wars. If you dont know anything about star wars, you dont know anything about the empire, rebellion, tarkin, jedi, the force, vader, AT ATs, etc. Sure, some of these things are explained but most wont make any sense (like the entire last ten minutes).
True, neither Rogue One or The Force Awakens were perfect. Both had different problems.
I liked both, but favor RO way more.
RO put me back in the OT time period (again). It's a time period I "live" in frequently. Ranging from old PC games, ol' Shadows of the Empire, and most obviously, the toys. Plus the time period made me like Rebels more than I would of.
I went into Rebels with metaphorically speaking, a stern face with crossed arms look, because it was the source of my loss. Namely The Clone Wars.
Clone Wars => space battles, Clones, multiple Jedi on-screen, various Battle Droids, Sith using Lightsabers often, Hondo, etc....good stuff to me.
Anyways, both films gave me what I wanted to see:
Rogue One => Y-Wings and "real" X-Wings vs "real" TIE Fighters, that shot of the X-Wing exiting hyperspace into the battle (video game feeling right there), vintage Star Destroyers, Corellian Corvettes and Nebulon-B Frigates in action, and Darth Vader doing stuff, though the music wasn't vintage, it was close enough.
The Force Awakens => OT cast on-screen together (we kind of that), the Falcon, new Star Destroyer, new characters interacting with OT cast, old OT stuff referenced (which they did a lot on Jakku).
Stuff That Bugged Me:
RO => Krennic's shuttle, why does he get a fancy ship? Vader and Palpatine used the standard shuttle. It's a uniformity thing with the Empire. No prequel stuff referenced in the movie, verbal or visual. Example: use of rusted old ships, old B1 Battle Droid heads hanging off a wall, etc
TFA => no advanced ships, (though the FO Troop Transport was kinda cool. Resistance Troop Transport? Interesting). But the biggest offenders were the X-Wing "variant" and the TIE "variant", and Starkiller Base.
True, neither Rogue One or The Force Awakens were perfect. Both had different problems.
I liked both, but favor RO way more.
RO put me back in the OT time period (again). It's a time period I "live" in frequently. Ranging from old PC games, ol' Shadows of the Empire, and most obviously, the toys. Plus the time period made me like Rebels more than I would of.
I went into Rebels with metaphorically speaking, a stern face with crossed arms look, because it was the source of my loss. Namely The Clone Wars.
Clone Wars => space battles, Clones, multiple Jedi on-screen, various Battle Droids, Sith using Lightsabers often, Hondo, etc....good stuff to me.
Anyways, both films gave me what I wanted to see:
Rogue One => Y-Wings and "real" X-Wings vs "real" TIE Fighters, that shot of the X-Wing exiting hyperspace into the battle (video game feeling right there), vintage Star Destroyers, Corellian Corvettes and Nebulon-B Frigates in action, and Darth Vader doing stuff, though the music wasn't vintage, it was close enough.
The Force Awakens => OT cast on-screen together (we kind of that), the Falcon, new Star Destroyer, new characters interacting with OT cast, old OT stuff referenced (which they did a lot on Jakku).
Stuff That Bugged Me:
RO => Krennic's shuttle, why does he get a fancy ship? Vader and Palpatine used the standard shuttle. It's a uniformity thing with the Empire. No prequel stuff referenced in the movie, verbal or visual. Example: use of rusted old ships, old B1 Battle Droid heads hanging off a wall, etc
TFA => no advanced ships, (though the FO Troop Transport was kinda cool. Resistance Troop Transport? Interesting). But the biggest offenders were the X-Wing "variant" and the TIE "variant", and Starkiller Base.
I think this proves my previous point. The people who liked rogue one didnt like it for what it added to the star wars universe. They just liked seeing old stuff with new updated visuals.
True, neither Rogue One or The Force Awakens were perfect. Both had different problems.
I liked both, but favor RO way more.
RO put me back in the OT time period (again). It's a time period I "live" in frequently. Ranging from old PC games, ol' Shadows of the Empire, and most obviously, the toys. Plus the time period made me like Rebels more than I would of.
I went into Rebels with metaphorically speaking, a stern face with crossed arms look, because it was the source of my loss. Namely The Clone Wars.
Clone Wars => space battles, Clones, multiple Jedi on-screen, various Battle Droids, Sith using Lightsabers often, Hondo, etc....good stuff to me.
Anyways, both films gave me what I wanted to see:
Rogue One => Y-Wings and "real" X-Wings vs "real" TIE Fighters, that shot of the X-Wing exiting hyperspace into the battle (video game feeling right there), vintage Star Destroyers, Corellian Corvettes and Nebulon-B Frigates in action, and Darth Vader doing stuff, though the music wasn't vintage, it was close enough.
The Force Awakens => OT cast on-screen together (we kind of that), the Falcon, new Star Destroyer, new characters interacting with OT cast, old OT stuff referenced (which they did a lot on Jakku).
Stuff That Bugged Me:
RO => Krennic's shuttle, why does he get a fancy ship? Vader and Palpatine used the standard shuttle. It's a uniformity thing with the Empire. No prequel stuff referenced in the movie, verbal or visual. Example: use of rusted old ships, old B1 Battle Droid heads hanging off a wall, etc
TFA => no advanced ships, (though the FO Troop Transport was kinda cool. Resistance Troop Transport? Interesting). But the biggest offenders were the X-Wing "variant" and the TIE "variant", and Starkiller Base.
I think this proves my previous point. The people who liked rogue one didnt like it for what it added to the star wars universe. They just liked seeing old stuff with new updated visuals.
I find this to be true because it took away everything introduced. I mean, how many of us would like the film if it wasn't in the original era? I know I surely wouldn't.
True, neither Rogue One or The Force Awakens were perfect. Both had different problems.
I liked both, but favor RO way more.
RO put me back in the OT time period (again). It's a time period I "live" in frequently. Ranging from old PC games, ol' Shadows of the Empire, and most obviously, the toys. Plus the time period made me like Rebels more than I would of.
I went into Rebels with metaphorically speaking, a stern face with crossed arms look, because it was the source of my loss. Namely The Clone Wars.
Clone Wars => space battles, Clones, multiple Jedi on-screen, various Battle Droids, Sith using Lightsabers often, Hondo, etc....good stuff to me.
Anyways, both films gave me what I wanted to see:
Rogue One => Y-Wings and "real" X-Wings vs "real" TIE Fighters, that shot of the X-Wing exiting hyperspace into the battle (video game feeling right there), vintage Star Destroyers, Corellian Corvettes and Nebulon-B Frigates in action, and Darth Vader doing stuff, though the music wasn't vintage, it was close enough.
The Force Awakens => OT cast on-screen together (we kind of that), the Falcon, new Star Destroyer, new characters interacting with OT cast, old OT stuff referenced (which they did a lot on Jakku).
Stuff That Bugged Me:
RO => Krennic's shuttle, why does he get a fancy ship? Vader and Palpatine used the standard shuttle. It's a uniformity thing with the Empire. No prequel stuff referenced in the movie, verbal or visual. Example: use of rusted old ships, old B1 Battle Droid heads hanging off a wall, etc
TFA => no advanced ships, (though the FO Troop Transport was kinda cool. Resistance Troop Transport? Interesting). But the biggest offenders were the X-Wing "variant" and the TIE "variant", and Starkiller Base.
I think this proves my previous point. The people who liked rogue one didnt like it for what it added to the star wars universe. They just liked seeing old stuff with new updated visuals.
I find this to be true because it took away everything introduced. I mean, how many of us would like the film if it wasn't in the original era? I know I surely wouldn't.
True, neither Rogue One or The Force Awakens were perfect. Both had different problems.
I liked both, but favor RO way more.
RO put me back in the OT time period (again). It's a time period I "live" in frequently. Ranging from old PC games, ol' Shadows of the Empire, and most obviously, the toys. Plus the time period made me like Rebels more than I would of.
I went into Rebels with metaphorically speaking, a stern face with crossed arms look, because it was the source of my loss. Namely The Clone Wars.
Clone Wars => space battles, Clones, multiple Jedi on-screen, various Battle Droids, Sith using Lightsabers often, Hondo, etc....good stuff to me.
Anyways, both films gave me what I wanted to see:
Rogue One => Y-Wings and "real" X-Wings vs "real" TIE Fighters, that shot of the X-Wing exiting hyperspace into the battle (video game feeling right there), vintage Star Destroyers, Corellian Corvettes and Nebulon-B Frigates in action, and Darth Vader doing stuff, though the music wasn't vintage, it was close enough.
The Force Awakens => OT cast on-screen together (we kind of that), the Falcon, new Star Destroyer, new characters interacting with OT cast, old OT stuff referenced (which they did a lot on Jakku).
Stuff That Bugged Me:
RO => Krennic's shuttle, why does he get a fancy ship? Vader and Palpatine used the standard shuttle. It's a uniformity thing with the Empire. No prequel stuff referenced in the movie, verbal or visual. Example: use of rusted old ships, old B1 Battle Droid heads hanging off a wall, etc
TFA => no advanced ships, (though the FO Troop Transport was kinda cool. Resistance Troop Transport? Interesting). But the biggest offenders were the X-Wing "variant" and the TIE "variant", and Starkiller Base.
True, neither Rogue One or The Force Awakens were perfect. Both had different problems.
I liked both, but favor RO way more.
RO put me back in the OT time period (again). It's a time period I "live" in frequently. Ranging from old PC games, ol' Shadows of the Empire, and most obviously, the toys. Plus the time period made me like Rebels more than I would of.
I went into Rebels with metaphorically speaking, a stern face with crossed arms look, because it was the source of my loss. Namely The Clone Wars.
Clone Wars => space battles, Clones, multiple Jedi on-screen, various Battle Droids, Sith using Lightsabers often, Hondo, etc....good stuff to me.
Anyways, both films gave me what I wanted to see:
Rogue One => Y-Wings and "real" X-Wings vs "real" TIE Fighters, that shot of the X-Wing exiting hyperspace into the battle (video game feeling right there), vintage Star Destroyers, Corellian Corvettes and Nebulon-B Frigates in action, and Darth Vader doing stuff, though the music wasn't vintage, it was close enough.
The Force Awakens => OT cast on-screen together (we kind of that), the Falcon, new Star Destroyer, new characters interacting with OT cast, old OT stuff referenced (which they did a lot on Jakku).
Stuff That Bugged Me:
RO => Krennic's shuttle, why does he get a fancy ship? Vader and Palpatine used the standard shuttle. It's a uniformity thing with the Empire. No prequel stuff referenced in the movie, verbal or visual. Example: use of rusted old ships, old B1 Battle Droid heads hanging off a wall, etc
TFA => no advanced ships, (though the FO Troop Transport was kinda cool. Resistance Troop Transport? Interesting). But the biggest offenders were the X-Wing "variant" and the TIE "variant", and Starkiller Base.
I think this proves my previous point. The people who liked rogue one didnt like it for what it added to the star wars universe. They just liked seeing old stuff with new updated visuals.
I find this to be true because it took away everything introduced. I mean, how many of us would like the film if it wasn't in the original era? I know I surely wouldn't.
True, neither Rogue One or The Force Awakens were perfect. Both had different problems.
I liked both, but favor RO way more.
RO put me back in the OT time period (again). It's a time period I "live" in frequently. Ranging from old PC games, ol' Shadows of the Empire, and most obviously, the toys. Plus the time period made me like Rebels more than I would of.
I went into Rebels with metaphorically speaking, a stern face with crossed arms look, because it was the source of my loss. Namely The Clone Wars.
Clone Wars => space battles, Clones, multiple Jedi on-screen, various Battle Droids, Sith using Lightsabers often, Hondo, etc....good stuff to me.
Anyways, both films gave me what I wanted to see:
Rogue One => Y-Wings and "real" X-Wings vs "real" TIE Fighters, that shot of the X-Wing exiting hyperspace into the battle (video game feeling right there), vintage Star Destroyers, Corellian Corvettes and Nebulon-B Frigates in action, and Darth Vader doing stuff, though the music wasn't vintage, it was close enough.
The Force Awakens => OT cast on-screen together (we kind of that), the Falcon, new Star Destroyer, new characters interacting with OT cast, old OT stuff referenced (which they did a lot on Jakku).
Stuff That Bugged Me:
RO => Krennic's shuttle, why does he get a fancy ship? Vader and Palpatine used the standard shuttle. It's a uniformity thing with the Empire. No prequel stuff referenced in the movie, verbal or visual. Example: use of rusted old ships, old B1 Battle Droid heads hanging off a wall, etc
TFA => no advanced ships, (though the FO Troop Transport was kinda cool. Resistance Troop Transport? Interesting). But the biggest offenders were the X-Wing "variant" and the TIE "variant", and Starkiller Base.
I think this proves my previous point. The people who liked rogue one didnt like it for what it added to the star wars universe. They just liked seeing old stuff with new updated visuals.
I find this to be true because it took away everything introduced. I mean, how many of us would like the film if it wasn't in the original era? I know I surely wouldn't.
Let me put it this way. For star war nerds like us who are incredibly critical of every star wars product, its imperative that we have a standard to which we can compare those new products. Empire is that standard. It is the 10/10 perfect star wars film that all future star wars films should be compared to. Every single scene is saturated with emotion, every character feels like a real person, and its absolutely hilarious without sacrificing tension or drama. Because of all this, the action scenes reach a new level of engagement for the audience because they're so emotionally invested in the characters involved. Every component of the production and post production process whether is kershner's directing, kasden's writing, burtt's sounds, william's composing, or the cast all come together equally to tell an incredible story. Not to mention everything it adds to the saga and innovated (force telekinesis, imperial march and other iconic themes, yoda, gave vader a character, lando, etc).
Its no surprise that its the film in the saga lucas had the least involvement in.
True, neither Rogue One or The Force Awakens were perfect. Both had different problems.
I liked both, but favor RO way more.
RO put me back in the OT time period (again). It's a time period I "live" in frequently. Ranging from old PC games, ol' Shadows of the Empire, and most obviously, the toys. Plus the time period made me like Rebels more than I would of.
I went into Rebels with metaphorically speaking, a stern face with crossed arms look, because it was the source of my loss. Namely The Clone Wars.
Clone Wars => space battles, Clones, multiple Jedi on-screen, various Battle Droids, Sith using Lightsabers often, Hondo, etc....good stuff to me.
Anyways, both films gave me what I wanted to see:
Rogue One => Y-Wings and "real" X-Wings vs "real" TIE Fighters, that shot of the X-Wing exiting hyperspace into the battle (video game feeling right there), vintage Star Destroyers, Corellian Corvettes and Nebulon-B Frigates in action, and Darth Vader doing stuff, though the music wasn't vintage, it was close enough.
The Force Awakens => OT cast on-screen together (we kind of that), the Falcon, new Star Destroyer, new characters interacting with OT cast, old OT stuff referenced (which they did a lot on Jakku).
Stuff That Bugged Me:
RO => Krennic's shuttle, why does he get a fancy ship? Vader and Palpatine used the standard shuttle. It's a uniformity thing with the Empire. No prequel stuff referenced in the movie, verbal or visual. Example: use of rusted old ships, old B1 Battle Droid heads hanging off a wall, etc
TFA => no advanced ships, (though the FO Troop Transport was kinda cool. Resistance Troop Transport? Interesting). But the biggest offenders were the X-Wing "variant" and the TIE "variant", and Starkiller Base.
I think this proves my previous point. The people who liked rogue one didnt like it for what it added to the star wars universe. They just liked seeing old stuff with new updated visuals.
I find this to be true because it took away everything introduced. I mean, how many of us would like the film if it wasn't in the original era? I know I surely wouldn't.
I love when we find something to agree on
DatBoi can we agree ESB is the best SW movie?
Let me put it this way. For star war nerds like us who are incredibly critical of every star wars product, its imperative that we have a standard to which we can compare those new products. Empire is that standard. It is the 10/10 perfect star wars film that all future star wars films should be compared to. Every single scene is saturated with emotion, every character feels like a real person, and its absolutely hilarious without sacrificing tension or drama. Because of all this, the action scenes reach a new level of engagement for the audience because they're so emotionally invested in the characters involved. Every component of the production and post production process whether is kershner's directing, kasden's writing, burtt's sounds, william's composing, or the cast all come together equally to tell an incredible story. Not to mention everything it adds to the saga and innovated (force telekinesis, imperial march and other iconic themes, yoda, gave vader a character, lando, etc).
Its no surprise that its the film in the saga lucas had the least involvement in.
Let me put it this way. For star war nerds like us who are incredibly critical of every star wars product, its imperative that we have a standard to which we can compare those new products. Empire is that standard. It is the 10/10 perfect star wars film that all future star wars films should be compared to. Every single scene is saturated with emotion, every character feels like a real person, and its absolutely hilarious without sacrificing tension or drama. Because of all this, the action scenes reach a new level of engagement for the audience because they're so emotionally invested in the characters involved. Every component of the production and post production process whether is kershner's directing, kasden's writing, burtt's sounds, william's composing, or the cast all come together equally to tell an incredible story. Not to mention everything it adds to the saga and innovated (force telekinesis, imperial march and other iconic themes, yoda, gave vader a character, lando, etc).
Its no surprise that its the film in the saga lucas had the least involvement in.
Im done
Ahh! Finally found something to agree 100% on!
Proud and Belgian officer of [DTA] BIER DTA | official Lando Calrissian fanboy KappaPride
Rogue one relied on nostalgia and familiar imagery to engage the audience. Every single thing that was good about it was only good because it was ripped directly out of the original trilogy. It didnt bring anything new to the saga.
The characters in rogue one were one dimensional at best and merely vessels for the story and script. In the original trilogy and TFA, we see how relationships between characters grow and evolve and we care about them. Since we know who they are, what their motivations are, and whats at stake for them, we care about the action sequences and are drawn in. In rogue one, we have to be told how characters act instead of showing us who they are.
Rogue one was far more complicated and cluttered than it had to be. The plot is simple: rebel spys steal the plans to the death star. But the first 30 minutes is spent planet hopping trying to introduce us to all these different characters and plot points instead of focusing on and following a main character's adventure. While im ok with the writers trying something darker, im not ok with them taking away that sense of wonder and adventure that keeps us engaged.
I could go on, but for now, if you have a rebuttal, please be specific and ill respond with enthusiasm.
coughEpisodecough7coughcough
Believe me, im fully aware of how similar TFA is to ANH. There are more similarities between those than rogue one. But my point is that the best parts of TFA were the things we hadn't seen before. What were the best parts of Rogue One? It wasn't the characters, the plot, the new worlds, or the writing. The best parts of Rogue One were Darth Vader, the ending that led up to ANH, AT ATs, the Death Star blowing things up, etc. My point is that these are all things we've seen before, just with updated visuals to make it eye candy. The best parts of TFA were the characters, the writing, the sense of adventure, and the emotional investment of both the crew and the audience.
I've always believed star wars should be more than shallow eye candy. Yes, it has incredible visuals, but those visuals only exist to enhance the heart and passion of the story and characters. Rogue One looked like a star wars movie but its all surface level. Once you take away the "look" of the movie, you're left with something as bland and boring as the prequels. If you think fancy visuals and explosions are more important that emotive characters with real heart and engaging stories, then go watch a michael bay movie. Leave that trash out of star wars.
So the visual effects are only to exist in order to enhance the heart and passion of the story and characters (don't get me wrong I totally agree with you).
But, Rogue One was not a saga movie - was a stand alone movie that was made and designed to enhance the heart and passion of the overall saga and its character - which I think it did so very well.
Also, id like to point out that even though TFA's story is nearly identical to ANH, its a story that works on its own. The story is only a problem when you compare it to other movies, not when seen on its own. If TFA was the first star wars movie you ever saw, you could have a good time. When i say it doesnt rely on fan service, thats what i mean.
Rogue One only works because it assumes the audience's prior knowledge of star wars. If you dont know anything about star wars, you dont know anything about the empire, rebellion, tarkin, jedi, the force, vader, AT ATs, etc. Sure, some of these things are explained but most wont make any sense (like the entire last ten minutes).
100% correct - Rogue One was a movie for fans, bridging the gap between movies within the star wars saga. I wouldn't recommend watching Rogue One to anyone as a stand alone movie.
But the same could be said if you hadn't seen any star wars movies and jumped right in to ROTJ - any member of the audience under those conditions would be just as lost as to what the hec is this about and what the hec is going on.
I fail to see how this point really makes Rogue One a bad movie
True, neither Rogue One or The Force Awakens were perfect. Both had different problems.
I liked both, but favor RO way more.
RO put me back in the OT time period (again). It's a time period I "live" in frequently. Ranging from old PC games, ol' Shadows of the Empire, and most obviously, the toys. Plus the time period made me like Rebels more than I would of.
I went into Rebels with metaphorically speaking, a stern face with crossed arms look, because it was the source of my loss. Namely The Clone Wars.
Clone Wars => space battles, Clones, multiple Jedi on-screen, various Battle Droids, Sith using Lightsabers often, Hondo, etc....good stuff to me.
Anyways, both films gave me what I wanted to see:
Rogue One => Y-Wings and "real" X-Wings vs "real" TIE Fighters, that shot of the X-Wing exiting hyperspace into the battle (video game feeling right there), vintage Star Destroyers, Corellian Corvettes and Nebulon-B Frigates in action, and Darth Vader doing stuff, though the music wasn't vintage, it was close enough.
The Force Awakens => OT cast on-screen together (we kind of that), the Falcon, new Star Destroyer, new characters interacting with OT cast, old OT stuff referenced (which they did a lot on Jakku).
Stuff That Bugged Me:
RO => Krennic's shuttle, why does he get a fancy ship? Vader and Palpatine used the standard shuttle. It's a uniformity thing with the Empire. No prequel stuff referenced in the movie, verbal or visual. Example: use of rusted old ships, old B1 Battle Droid heads hanging off a wall, etc
TFA => no advanced ships, (though the FO Troop Transport was kinda cool. Resistance Troop Transport? Interesting). But the biggest offenders were the X-Wing "variant" and the TIE "variant", and Starkiller Base.
I think this proves my previous point. The people who liked rogue one didnt like it for what it added to the star wars universe. They just liked seeing old stuff with new updated visuals.
I find this to be true because it took away everything introduced. I mean, how many of us would like the film if it wasn't in the original era? I know I surely wouldn't.
Let me put it this way. For star war nerds like us who are incredibly critical of every star wars product, its imperative that we have a standard to which we can compare those new products. Empire is that standard. It is the 10/10 perfect star wars film that all future star wars films should be compared to. Every single scene is saturated with emotion, every character feels like a real person, and its absolutely hilarious without sacrificing tension or drama. Because of all this, the action scenes reach a new level of engagement for the audience because they're so emotionally invested in the characters involved. Every component of the production and post production process whether is kershner's directing, kasden's writing, burtt's sounds, william's composing, or the cast all come together equally to tell an incredible story. Not to mention everything it adds to the saga and innovated (force telekinesis, imperial march and other iconic themes, yoda, gave vader a character, lando, etc).
Its no surprise that its the film in the saga lucas had the least involvement in.
Also, id like to point out that even though TFA's story is nearly identical to ANH, its a story that works on its own. The story is only a problem when you compare it to other movies, not when seen on its own. If TFA was the first star wars movie you ever saw, you could have a good time. When i say it doesnt rely on fan service, thats what i mean.
Rogue One only works because it assumes the audience's prior knowledge of star wars. If you dont know anything about star wars, you dont know anything about the empire, rebellion, tarkin, jedi, the force, vader, AT ATs, etc. Sure, some of these things are explained but most wont make any sense (like the entire last ten minutes).
100% correct - Rogue One was a movie for fans, bridging the gap between movies within the star wars saga. I wouldn't recommend watching Rogue One to anyone as a stand alone movie.
But the same could be said if you hadn't seen any star wars movies and jumped right in to ROTJ - any member of the audience under those conditions would be just as lost as to what the hec is this about and what the hec is going on.
I fail to see how this point really makes Rogue One a bad movie
My point is that there's nothing there for people who don't know anything about star wars. ROTJ probably isn't the best movie to use as a comparison (it really isnt all that great), so lets use Empire. If Empire was the first star wars film someone saw, sure they might be a bit hazy on plot points, but the characters are still incredibly likable, the narrative is still satisfying, and the audience has a good time. Sure there are lots of iconic ships, characters, and scenes, but they aren't "cool" because they're exploiting your nostolgia or reminding you of another movie. They're iconic on they're own.
I realize any star wars movie set near the OT will have much of the same "stuff" as the old movies, thats not my issue. My issue is that the quality of Rogue One depends on making you think about other, better movies instead of being its own movie.
I posted a link to a video earlier in the thread. Its pretty short and it perfectly parodies the "good" things about this movie. I recommend it.
Also, id like to point out that even though TFA's story is nearly identical to ANH, its a story that works on its own. The story is only a problem when you compare it to other movies, not when seen on its own. If TFA was the first star wars movie you ever saw, you could have a good time. When i say it doesnt rely on fan service, thats what i mean.
Rogue One only works because it assumes the audience's prior knowledge of star wars. If you dont know anything about star wars, you dont know anything about the empire, rebellion, tarkin, jedi, the force, vader, AT ATs, etc. Sure, some of these things are explained but most wont make any sense (like the entire last ten minutes).
100% correct - Rogue One was a movie for fans, bridging the gap between movies within the star wars saga. I wouldn't recommend watching Rogue One to anyone as a stand alone movie.
But the same could be said if you hadn't seen any star wars movies and jumped right in to ROTJ - any member of the audience under those conditions would be just as lost as to what the hec is this about and what the hec is going on.
I fail to see how this point really makes Rogue One a bad movie
My point is that there's nothing there for people who don't know anything about star wars. ROTJ probably isn't the best movie to use as a comparison (it really isnt all that great), so lets use Empire. If Empire was the first star wars film someone saw, sure they might be a bit hazy on plot points, but the characters are still incredibly likable, the narrative is still satisfying, and the audience has a good time. Sure there are lots of iconic ships, characters, and scenes, but they aren't "cool" because they're exploiting your nostolgia or reminding you of another movie. They're iconic on they're own.
I realize any star wars movie set near the OT will have much of the same "stuff" as the old movies, thats not my issue. My issue is that the quality of Rogue One depends on making you think about other, better movies instead of being its own movie.
I posted a link to a video earlier in the thread. Its pretty short and it perfectly parodies the "good" things about this movie. I recommend it.
Did not enjoy this video - one of the worst Star Wars parodies in history! Tremendous disappointment! No talent!
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Also, id like to point out that even though TFA's story is nearly identical to ANH, its a story that works on its own. The story is only a problem when you compare it to other movies, not when seen on its own. If TFA was the first star wars movie you ever saw, you could have a good time. When i say it doesnt rely on fan service, thats what i mean.
Rogue One only works because it assumes the audience's prior knowledge of star wars. If you dont know anything about star wars, you dont know anything about the empire, rebellion, tarkin, jedi, the force, vader, AT ATs, etc. Sure, some of these things are explained but most wont make any sense (like the entire last ten minutes).
100% correct - Rogue One was a movie for fans, bridging the gap between movies within the star wars saga. I wouldn't recommend watching Rogue One to anyone as a stand alone movie.
But the same could be said if you hadn't seen any star wars movies and jumped right in to ROTJ - any member of the audience under those conditions would be just as lost as to what the hec is this about and what the hec is going on.
I fail to see how this point really makes Rogue One a bad movie
My point is that there's nothing there for people who don't know anything about star wars. ROTJ probably isn't the best movie to use as a comparison (it really isnt all that great), so lets use Empire. If Empire was the first star wars film someone saw, sure they might be a bit hazy on plot points, but the characters are still incredibly likable, the narrative is still satisfying, and the audience has a good time. Sure there are lots of iconic ships, characters, and scenes, but they aren't "cool" because they're exploiting your nostolgia or reminding you of another movie. They're iconic on they're own.
I realize any star wars movie set near the OT will have much of the same "stuff" as the old movies, thats not my issue. My issue is that the quality of Rogue One depends on making you think about other, better movies instead of being its own movie.
I posted a link to a video earlier in the thread. Its pretty short and it perfectly parodies the "good" things about this movie. I recommend it.
Did not enjoy this video - one of the worst Star Wars parodies in history! Tremendous disappointment! No talent!
I personally think R1 was the worst out of all the movies. I'm a 42 year old super fan, so I guess I fall into the targeted demographic of a mature audience.
I didn't see it in the theaters, I waited till it came out on Blu Ray. I was extremely hyped to see it.
I could not have been more disappointed in Chirrut and Baze's characters. After seeing Baze and Chirrut in game, I was thinking "man - these guys are cool - I bet they basically made the movie". Well - they did make the movie... bad. Saw Gerrera almost had no part - probably could have done without him entirely.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
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Some good ideas there, but as the saying goes...throwing good money after bad?
I'd rather the money be spent updating the CGI in the Original Trilogy.
As it is now, no one would buy The Christmas Special....at least I think no one would.
But it was a refreshed with some crystals (HA!) into something they can insert into DVD/Blu-Ray box sets or sell toys of, Disney would and should.
Started mid-FEB 2017, and not trying to reach the top.
Good point - like a special feature documentary on a bonus disc or something.
My wife, who never watched STAR WARS until she met me did not like the original trilogy but enjoyed Rogue One.
Booooooooooooooo
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coughEpisodecough7coughcough
Believe me, im fully aware of how similar TFA is to ANH. There are more similarities between those than rogue one. But my point is that the best parts of TFA were the things we hadn't seen before. What were the best parts of Rogue One? It wasn't the characters, the plot, the new worlds, or the writing. The best parts of Rogue One were Darth Vader, the ending that led up to ANH, AT ATs, the Death Star blowing things up, etc. My point is that these are all things we've seen before, just with updated visuals to make it eye candy. The best parts of TFA were the characters, the writing, the sense of adventure, and the emotional investment of both the crew and the audience.
I've always believed star wars should be more than shallow eye candy. Yes, it has incredible visuals, but those visuals only exist to enhance the heart and passion of the story and characters. Rogue One looked like a star wars movie but its all surface level. Once you take away the "look" of the movie, you're left with something as bland and boring as the prequels. If you think fancy visuals and explosions are more important that emotive characters with real heart and engaging stories, then go watch a michael bay movie. Leave that trash out of star wars.
Rogue One only works because it assumes the audience's prior knowledge of star wars. If you dont know anything about star wars, you dont know anything about the empire, rebellion, tarkin, jedi, the force, vader, AT ATs, etc. Sure, some of these things are explained but most wont make any sense (like the entire last ten minutes).
I liked both, but favor RO way more.
RO put me back in the OT time period (again). It's a time period I "live" in frequently. Ranging from old PC games, ol' Shadows of the Empire, and most obviously, the toys. Plus the time period made me like Rebels more than I would of.
I went into Rebels with metaphorically speaking, a stern face with crossed arms look, because it was the source of my loss. Namely The Clone Wars.
Clone Wars => space battles, Clones, multiple Jedi on-screen, various Battle Droids, Sith using Lightsabers often, Hondo, etc....good stuff to me.
Anyways, both films gave me what I wanted to see:
Rogue One => Y-Wings and "real" X-Wings vs "real" TIE Fighters, that shot of the X-Wing exiting hyperspace into the battle (video game feeling right there), vintage Star Destroyers, Corellian Corvettes and Nebulon-B Frigates in action, and Darth Vader doing stuff, though the music wasn't vintage, it was close enough.
The Force Awakens => OT cast on-screen together (we kind of that), the Falcon, new Star Destroyer, new characters interacting with OT cast, old OT stuff referenced (which they did a lot on Jakku).
Stuff That Bugged Me:
RO => Krennic's shuttle, why does he get a fancy ship? Vader and Palpatine used the standard shuttle. It's a uniformity thing with the Empire. No prequel stuff referenced in the movie, verbal or visual. Example: use of rusted old ships, old B1 Battle Droid heads hanging off a wall, etc
TFA => no advanced ships, (though the FO Troop Transport was kinda cool. Resistance Troop Transport? Interesting). But the biggest offenders were the X-Wing "variant" and the TIE "variant", and Starkiller Base.
Started mid-FEB 2017, and not trying to reach the top.
This
I think this proves my previous point. The people who liked rogue one didnt like it for what it added to the star wars universe. They just liked seeing old stuff with new updated visuals.
I find this to be true because it took away everything introduced. I mean, how many of us would like the film if it wasn't in the original era? I know I surely wouldn't.
I think thats perfect
@DatBoi can we agree ESB is the best SW movie?
Its no surprise that its the film in the saga lucas had the least involvement in.
Im done
100@ agreed
Ahh! Finally found something to agree 100% on!
So the visual effects are only to exist in order to enhance the heart and passion of the story and characters (don't get me wrong I totally agree with you).
But, Rogue One was not a saga movie - was a stand alone movie that was made and designed to enhance the heart and passion of the overall saga and its character - which I think it did so very well.
100% correct - Rogue One was a movie for fans, bridging the gap between movies within the star wars saga. I wouldn't recommend watching Rogue One to anyone as a stand alone movie.
But the same could be said if you hadn't seen any star wars movies and jumped right in to ROTJ - any member of the audience under those conditions would be just as lost as to what the hec is this about and what the hec is going on.
I fail to see how this point really makes Rogue One a bad movie
100% True!!!!
My point is that there's nothing there for people who don't know anything about star wars. ROTJ probably isn't the best movie to use as a comparison (it really isnt all that great), so lets use Empire. If Empire was the first star wars film someone saw, sure they might be a bit hazy on plot points, but the characters are still incredibly likable, the narrative is still satisfying, and the audience has a good time. Sure there are lots of iconic ships, characters, and scenes, but they aren't "cool" because they're exploiting your nostolgia or reminding you of another movie. They're iconic on they're own.
I realize any star wars movie set near the OT will have much of the same "stuff" as the old movies, thats not my issue. My issue is that the quality of Rogue One depends on making you think about other, better movies instead of being its own movie.
I posted a link to a video earlier in the thread. Its pretty short and it perfectly parodies the "good" things about this movie. I recommend it.
Did not enjoy this video - one of the worst Star Wars parodies in history! Tremendous disappointment! No talent!
I didn't see it in the theaters, I waited till it came out on Blu Ray. I was extremely hyped to see it.
I could not have been more disappointed in Chirrut and Baze's characters. After seeing Baze and Chirrut in game, I was thinking "man - these guys are cool - I bet they basically made the movie". Well - they did make the movie... bad. Saw Gerrera almost had no part - probably could have done without him entirely.