Game doesn't reward Player for Veterancy

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MrGrips
521 posts Member
edited January 2017
TL;DR: Arena shards, Tournament brackets, and lack of new content create monotony and leave really old players playing for same rewards over months. When your enemy is almost always your peer (shardmate, or near it), their +1 cancels out your +1. And you're playing largely for the same rewards everyday as much younger players. This creates a feeling of no progress. Like a veteran is in the same place as a 3-month old newbie.

Ive played since the beginning of May and I've been faced with a really lame fact over and over again recently. The feeling of making no progress.

There isn't much to do first of all. Nothing new for months and the forseeable future. Sim the challenges and same nodes, auto the credit heist. Raiding is essential but often a huge drag and a chore. GW is a little fun sometimes but also a chore. Ship battles are often a draw, rewards for ranking higher aren't that exiting. I think the mode that feels the most important, largely due to the rewards, is arena. I know this isnt everyone, but I know its a lot of people. Everything I do, everything I progress in is to get farther in arena, with raiding a slight exception.

But arena sucks. Its always the same
shard mates. As arena continues, Im not spending anywhere near as much as many in the top 20, evidenced by the surplus of new gear 11 characters they have. Its a fight to stay in the same place, if not fall as slowly as possible. And everytime I upgrade, they upgrade. It feels like it cancels out.

This leads me to my main point. I sit and think to myself and say, hey, wait a second..... Im fighting to get the same rewards as someone who just started the game. Except I keep hearing newer shards are often even less competitive than those around my age. Whats up with that? Arena shards suck, they ensure that you always "keep pace" with people you arent beating anyone new or any of the new players.

Tournaments a great example of how progress in this game isn't really progress. Someone who's level 85 is probably better than that lvl 70 who won 6 Star Jyn Erso but the game has decided that that lvl 70 deserves better rewards than thousands of lvl 85s. Tournament brackets absolutely suck.

I am constantly feeling like despite having played for so long theres almost no reward, no advantage to being a veteran. Yeah, I know, several months ago I progressed enough to do better in raids and beat certain events, mostly with unimportant rewards... but even so these things are small exceptions in what feels like a game where there is no reward for progress.

And finally yes, You can play the game just to collect characters, but I know theres a lot of players who feel similarly to how I feel, competitive, I guess.

Ive been more and more tired of game lately. I feel like quiting, and maybe I will. But I've put a lot into the game... which is ironic because for what ive put in im in the same arena place, same raid award ranking, beating the same events and doing the same thing for months. I feel like I havent earned much for all the time $ and effort put in.

One solution I can see to this problem is a huge tournament bracket, the entire player base wide and with the top reward rank being several thousand players wide, and the second like that and so on..

What are your thoughts?
Post edited by MrGrips on

Replies

  • I just felt a sense of realism as to how much of a waste the money I've put into this game really was... Totally agree
  • This is going to sound weird, but take a break. Give it a week. Don't worry about dailies, your arena rank, any of it. The thing is if after a week you want to come back, you'll easily be able to regain whatever was lost. In fact, you might even have renewed excitement about new goals. If you decide you're only playing due to habit, it'll be easy to walk away and find something that you do enjoy.
  • Allenb60
    2171 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    Blame power-creep, it is a bad thing overall but an easy way to keep these kinds of games alive and fun. Don't feel bad about uninstalling if your burned out, you can always cloud save your data and if what you are saying is true you won't be missing out on anything
  • I am completely agree with you. I start thinking about same about a week ago. I think this is the biggest problem of this game - the longer you play the harder it become. Newcomer can have Rex and SF same way as me(Rex out perform 80% of my toons), they can have tournament toons much easier than me being in lower level shard. The only benefit to be a longer playing, max level player, is to have access to higher levels of cantina and LS/DS and there are nothing. Furthermore quantity of needed gear is increasing with levels and I just stopped to farm new toons anymore - I have more than 10 lvl1 gear 1 toons which will never upgrade because I need to farm white, green or blue gear for it. Also making Darth Vader farmable is slap in the face of veterans which made such big effort to have it maxed. I think that all later changes are against veterans which is strange for me because these players supports the game...
  • Allenb60 wrote: »
    Blame power-creep, it is a bad thing overall but an easy way to keep these kinds of games alive and fun. Don't feel bad about uninstalling if your burned out, you can always cloud save your data and if what you are saying is true you won't be missing out on anything


    I actually think powercreep would be okay if there was something that an 12 month player had over a 5 month player. But after unlocking all the tables and getting a raid team youve pretty much hit all the goalposts.
    CleverWes wrote: »
    This is going to sound weird, but take a break. Give it a week. Don't worry about dailies, your arena rank, any of it. The thing is if after a week you want to come back, you'll easily be able to regain whatever was lost. In fact, you might even have renewed excitement about new goals. If you decide you're only playing due to habit, it'll be easy to walk away and find something that you do enjoy.

    Yeaaah im considering doing this. I would say that if that week I took a break went well I would take it even further lol.
    JohnTS676 wrote: »
    I just felt a sense of realism as to how much of a waste the money I've put into this game really was... Totally agree
    +1
  • Ring
    559 posts Member
    CleverWes wrote: »
    This is going to sound weird, but take a break. Give it a week.

    So very much this. Back around April I got sick and tired of this game, which had become a daily chore instead of fun. I decided to take a break and just quit from one day to the next. Probably best decision I ever made. Came back a few months later with renewed enthusiasm and had a blast again.

    Now I'm just waiting for the MilitaryvMight event again and will probably be taking a break again. Too much to do and not enough time to do it in.
  • I've played for more and a year and would have to disagree.

    Yes, new players have access to better toons than I had, but guys like Poe and Dooku were superstars when I started. It would be a shame to only give new players access to the worst toons in the game.

    Guys like Sun Fac and Rex are still great, but Chaze is obviously better. So the best toons aren't farmable, just like it has always been and to be honest should be. People who are prepared to pay deserve better toons.

    I can understand the tournament frustration, but any other way to arrange it would make tournaments completely useless for new players. I believe everybody should have a chance to unlock the tournament toons if they spend enough time on it, no matter if you're an old or a new player.

    Old players have a way easier ride in events though.

    BUT one annoying thing is the Vader and GG shards in fleet shipments. It makes no sense to me and a lot of old players have a feeling it was promised those toons wouldn't be released elsewhere than in shard shop and of course in Vader's case achievements.
  • Monxie wrote: »
    Old players have a way easier ride in events though.

    Events?!? Almost all events are obsolete - are you waiting for Military Might?!? For what?!? To get Vader shards which we got already 7* from fleet shipments or to get shards for some of most useless empire toons? who needs general Veers anymore - we got Palp and TFP
  • I started in April/May and I am wishing that I had started again when tournaments first came out as I would be further into the game.

    Some of the Rogue One characters are o/p and the fact that players who started in November have them unlocked sometimes at 6 or 7 star and I am sitting on just shards which makes it feel like all the work I have put in has been for nothing.
  • Monxie wrote: »
    I've played for more and a year and would have to disagree.

    Yes, new players have access to better toons than I had, but guys like Poe and Dooku were superstars when I started. It would be a shame to only give new players access to the worst toons in the game.

    Guys like Sun Fac and Rex are still great, but Chaze is obviously better. So the best toons aren't farmable, just like it has always been and to be honest should be. People who are prepared to pay deserve better toons.

    I can understand the tournament frustration, but any other way to arrange it would make tournaments completely useless for new players. I believe everybody should have a chance to unlock the tournament toons if they spend enough time on it, no matter if you're an old or a new player.

    Old players have a way easier ride in events though.

    BUT one annoying thing is the Vader and GG shards in fleet shipments. It makes no sense to me and a lot of old players have a feeling it was promised those toons wouldn't be released elsewhere than in shard shop and of course in Vader's case achievements.

    Well, I dont really see why there being some characters that you have to earn over a long long time is a bad thing. And well, I also dont see why its necessary for
    tournaments to be the way they are. New players have plenty of stuff to play with, what do old players have that they get a chance to do once theyre old? And im not saying to remove the tournaments the way they are anyway, just to add a few new ones on top of the old ones, or a new feature, any feature, that adequately rewards veterancy.
  • Monxie
    559 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    pargame wrote: »
    Monxie wrote: »
    Old players have a way easier ride in events though.

    Events?!? Almost all events are obsolete - are you waiting for Military Might?!? For what?!? To get Vader shards which we got already 7* from fleet shipments or to get shards for some of most useless empire toons? who needs general Veers anymore - we got Palp and TFP
    The Yoda and EP events are good examples of events which old players could do perfectly well once they were released while new players had/have to build for quite a while to get their 7* iconic toons.
  • Monxie
    559 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    MrGrips wrote: »
    New players have plenty of stuff to play with, what do old players have that they get a chance to do once theyre old? And im not saying to remove the tournaments the way they are anyway, just to add a few new ones on top of the old ones, or a new feature, any feature, that adequately rewards veterancy.
    Old players have a great chance to activate Kenobi and Han (most would even have him at 7*) which is things new players simply can't do. For every new raid that is released, old players have a much faster way to complete the heroic level.

    Kenobi, Zeta and to get 7* ships are my targets now, other than the usual toon grinding.

  • Monxie wrote: »
    MrGrips wrote: »
    New players have plenty of stuff to play with, what do old players have that they get a chance to do once theyre old? And im not saying to remove the tournaments the way they are anyway, just to add a few new ones on top of the old ones, or a new feature, any feature, that adequately rewards veterancy.
    Old players have a great chance to activate Kenobi and Han (most would even have him at 7*) which is things new players simply can't do. For every new raid that is released, old players have a much faster way to complete the heroic level.

    Kenobi, Zeta and to get 7* ships are my targets now, other than the usual toon grinding.

    Welll, what about this. I can work on Han (have already been for a while, hes at 6star) and am about to start on Kenobi. Im not thaat old of a player, yet what can older players do or get that I cant? Theres toooones of players older than me.
    Monxie wrote: »
    pargame wrote: »
    Monxie wrote: »
    Old players have a way easier ride in events though.

    Events?!? Almost all events are obsolete - are you waiting for Military Might?!? For what?!? To get Vader shards which we got already 7* from fleet shipments or to get shards for some of most useless empire toons? who needs general Veers anymore - we got Palp and TFP
    The Yoda and EP events are good examples of events which old players could do perfectly well once they were released while new players had/have to build for quite a while to get their 7* iconic toons.

    True but after 3 or 4 or 5 months, nothing to do... Yes I know, older players than a guy who started yesterday obviously can do more but im saying the cutoff where you can do everything is maybe 6 months more or less, and there should be more. Lots and lots of people have played longer than 6 months.
  • MrGrips wrote: »
    Ive played since the beginning of May and I've been faced with a really lame fact over again recently. The feeling of making no progress.

    There isn't much to do first of all. Sim the challenges and same nodes, auto the credit heist. Raiding is essential but often a huge drag and a chore. GW is a little fun sometimes but also a chore. Ship battles are often a draw, rewards for ranking higher aren't that exiting. I think the mode that feels the most important, largely due to the rewards, is arena. I know this isnt everyone, but I know its a lot of people. Everything I do, everything I progress in is to get farther in arena, with raiding a slight exception.

    But arena sucks. Its always the same
    shard mates. As arena continues, Im not spending anywhere near as much as many in the top 20, evidenced by the surplus of new gear 11 characters they have. Its a fight to stay in the same place, if not fall as slowly as possible.

    This leads me to my main point. I sit and think to myself and say, hey, wait a second..... Im fighting to get the same rewards as someone who just started the game. Except I keep hearing newer shards are often even less competitive than those around my age. Whats up with that? Arena shards suck, they ensure that you always "keep pace" with people you arent beating anyone new or any of the new players.

    Tournaments a great example of how progress in this game isn't really progress. Someone who's level 85 is probably better than that lvl 70 who won 6 Star Jyn Erso but the game has decided that that lvl 70 deserves better rewards than thousands of lvl 85s. Tournament brackets absolutely suck.

    I am constantly feeling like despite having played for so long theres almost no reward, no advantage to being a veteran. Yeah, I know, several months ago I progressed enough to do better in raids and beat certain events, mostly with unimportant rewards... but even so these things are small exceptions in what feels like a game where there is no reward for progress.

    And finally yes, You can play the game just to collect characters, but I know theres a lot of players who feel similarly to how I feel, competitive, I guess.

    Ive been more and more tired of game lately. I feel like quiting, and maybe I will. But I've put a lot into the game... which is ironic because for what ive put in im in the same arena place, same raid award ranking, beating the same events and doing the same thing for months. I feel like I havent earned much for all the time $ and effort put in.

    One solution I can see to this problem is a huge tournament bracket, the entire player base wide and with the top reward rank being several thousand players wide, and the second like that and so on..

    What are your thoughts?

    TL;DR: Arena shards, Tournament brackets, and lack of new content leave player playing for same rewards over months and left with a feeling of no progress. Like a veteran is in the same place as a 2-month old newbie.

    So. Many. Words.. :D
  • Totally agree with OP.
  • Older shards are more competitive because a) only die hards are still playing daily after 1.2 years and b) die hard fans play every SW game that comes out.

    I think their view is that the SW player base is limited so their only option is to keep tapping the die hard players for revenue so they focus on new content for revenue streams and making it take longer to obtain new content over quality of content (design,playability, bugs ect).

    The die hard people paying and that love SW will deal with taking a month to gear one toon one level or pay for it.
  • Iron_Zilla
    347 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    I've been playing this game since it was released back in 2015. That's a veteran status. Picking up the game in mid 2016 isn't anywhere close to being a vet. I still think this game is quite competitive but not to the point where you have to keep spending money to keep up. GW is a easy when you have the right teams. Arena is fine once you get between 200-100. Ships is meh but a good source of shards for exclusive toons. Raids are a brilliant way to get the gear you need provided you have a good roster/guildies. Tournaments suck but I play for The resources rather than chars.

    However, I do think they should have some kind of reward for people who have been playing for the games duration(since 2015). I've stuck by this game through the **** like the evasion meta for example. Not big reward, just something tiny to say "Hey thanks for playing our game! Here's a little reward as appreciation"

    But the biggest thing that separates people is TIME. Some people are happy to wait and grind others just want stuff now now now.
  • vincentlondon
    4527 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    I dont agree as in arena i always rank in same range so i always get the same rewards
    So i dont see what is fun about arena
  • I dont agree as in arena i always rank in same range so i always get the same rewards
    So i dont see what is fun about arena

    +1 and fighting against same players and very very rare someone changed his team
  • MrGrips
    521 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    Iron_Zilla wrote: »
    I've been playing this game since it was released back in 2015. That's a veteran status. Picking up the game in mid 2016 isn't anywhere close to being a vet. I still think this game is quite competitive but not to the point where you have to keep spending money to keep up. GW is a easy when you have the right teams. Arena is fine once you get between 200-100. Ships is meh but a good source of shards for exclusive toons. Raids are a brilliant way to get the gear you need provided you have a good roster/guildies. Tournaments suck but I play for The resources rather than chars.

    However, I do think they should have some kind of reward for people who have been playing for the games duration(since 2015). I've stuck by this game through the **** like the evasion meta for example. Not big reward, just something tiny to say "Hey thanks for playing our game! Here's a little reward as appreciation"

    But the biggest thing that separates people is TIME. Some people are happy to wait and grind others just want stuff now now now.

    I agree on some content or reward for really old players like yourself.

    Just to clarify, my point is that as only a May shard player, I feel like ive already hit the limit of content, progress. Im playing for the same rewards as you, or someone a few months younger/older. No progression.
    I dont agree as in arena i always rank in same range so i always get the same rewards
    So i dont see what is fun about arena

    I dont rlly think its fun either lol! Im playing the same people all the time and its a battle of spending lately tbh.
  • MrGrips wrote: »
    Iron_Zilla wrote: »
    I've been playing this game since it was released back in 2015. That's a veteran status. Picking up the game in mid 2016 isn't anywhere close to being a vet. I still think this game is quite competitive but not to the point where you have to keep spending money to keep up. GW is a easy when you have the right teams. Arena is fine once you get between 200-100. Ships is meh but a good source of shards for exclusive toons. Raids are a brilliant way to get the gear you need provided you have a good roster/guildies. Tournaments suck but I play for The resources rather than chars.

    However, I do think they should have some kind of reward for people who have been playing for the games duration(since 2015). I've stuck by this game through the **** like the evasion meta for example. Not big reward, just something tiny to say "Hey thanks for playing our game! Here's a little reward as appreciation"

    But the biggest thing that separates people is TIME. Some people are happy to wait and grind others just want stuff now now now.

    I agree on some content or reward for really old players like yourself.

    Just to clarify, my point is that as only a May shard player, I feel like ive already hit the limit of content, progress. Im playing for the same rewards as you, or someone a few months younger/older. No progression.
    I dont agree as in arena i always rank in same range so i always get the same rewards
    So i dont see what is fun about arena

    I dont rlly think its fun either lol! Im playing the same people all the time and its a battle of spending lately tbh.

    So you're spending money on something you don't find fun? That seems to be your problem. Clearly CG is achieving its goal (you're spending). If you stopped spending money on things you don't find fun, perhaps CG would add things that you do find fun.

    I personally don't have that problem. I find the arena quite fun. I also enjoy GW and ships, and to a certain extent even tournaments. Are there many things I feel could be improved? Absolutely. But I have clear goals in the game that I can work towards. Granted, I am one of those newer players that the OP is moaning about, so who knows how I'll feel in a few months. I started in September.
  • There's a reason why you don't see names like Telaan, Qeltar or CosmicTurtle posting (or playing) anymore. Sadly, the lack of any decent reward system for veteran players is one of those reasons.

    :/
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • The tournaments are a joke. Being lower leveled gives you a much easier time to get the over powered new characters. But the same new content everyone keeps requesting creates this problem. Every time the level cap is increased, everyone needs to up abilities, gear, and level. Omega abilities should have been the end abilities, but now we have Zeta, and when level 90 comes there be an additional ability over that. New players get these over powered characters so they can compete against the veterans and older established accounts. The game creators want new players to be able to do something in the game fast.

    In a matter of a few years this game will most likely cease to exist and the fun will be over. There is only so much new content that the devs can keep releasing.
  • MrGrips
    521 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    Acrofales wrote: »
    MrGrips wrote: »
    Iron_Zilla wrote: »
    I've been playing this game since it was released back in 2015. That's a veteran status. Picking up the game in mid 2016 isn't anywhere close to being a vet. I still think this game is quite competitive but not to the point where you have to keep spending money to keep up. GW is a easy when you have the right teams. Arena is fine once you get between 200-100. Ships is meh but a good source of shards for exclusive toons. Raids are a brilliant way to get the gear you need provided you have a good roster/guildies. Tournaments suck but I play for The resources rather than chars.

    However, I do think they should have some kind of reward for people who have been playing for the games duration(since 2015). I've stuck by this game through the **** like the evasion meta for example. Not big reward, just something tiny to say "Hey thanks for playing our game! Here's a little reward as appreciation"

    But the biggest thing that separates people is TIME. Some people are happy to wait and grind others just want stuff now now now.

    I agree on some content or reward for really old players like yourself.

    Just to clarify, my point is that as only a May shard player, I feel like ive already hit the limit of content, progress. Im playing for the same rewards as you, or someone a few months younger/older. No progression.
    I dont agree as in arena i always rank in same range so i always get the same rewards
    So i dont see what is fun about arena

    I dont rlly think its fun either lol! Im playing the same people all the time and its a battle of spending lately tbh.

    So you're spending money on something you don't find fun? That seems to be your problem. Clearly CG is achieving its goal (you're spending). If you stopped spending money on things you don't find fun, perhaps CG would add things that you do find fun.

    I personally don't have that problem. I find the arena quite fun. I also enjoy GW and ships, and to a certain extent even tournaments. Are there many things I feel could be improved? Absolutely. But I have clear goals in the game that I can work towards. Granted, I am one of those newer players that the OP is moaning about, so who knows how I'll feel in a few months. I started in September.

    Well As ive been having less and less fun I dont really spend anymore actually, my arena team is the old school danger zone and has none of the rogue one guys. But for most of the people in the top 20 it is a battle of spending. Which is only a problem because of stale arena shards. And well maybe you will, because for months and many more to come I just dont feel like im earning anything.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    There's a reason why you don't see names like Telaan, Qeltar or CosmicTurtle posting (or playing) anymore. Sadly, the lack of any decent reward system for veteran players is one of those reasons.

    :/

    ):
  • I started in April/May and I am wishing that I had started again when tournaments first came out as I would be further into the game.

    Some of the Rogue One characters are o/p and the fact that players who started in November have them unlocked sometimes at 6 or 7 star and I am sitting on just shards which makes it feel like all the work I have put in has been for nothing.

    The fact that the game rewards those who start over with a new account is evidence that things are broken. I agree with the OP, there is no reward for being a veteran. The fact new accounts can gain access to new characters via tournaments and I can't without spending major $ because I'm a vet and have to face a whole pod of whales to get a top spot is a slap in the face. It's also the reason I stopped spending money on this game. I think there should be some rebalancing of the shards as well. Reduce the shard size and move players from old shards to new shards to give others a shot at getting to the top.
  • Agree, this is a chore and I'm getting burnt out not making any progress.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    But what is the alternative?
    honest question, rewarding veterancy has a major drawback. New players will never, ever catch up.
    (edit: i think they should increase the rate of progression for all players, new and old alike)
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Well, to make veterans and newbies alike feel they are progressing you need to pump out sufficient content to keep everybody busy. Problem is that in most cases players can go through content a lot faster than devs can create it. That's why there's absurd, repetitive grinds in any game with some form of longevity. You have to run the same dungeon a million times in WoW to get all the marks of uberness that you need to trade in for a single ring of the mediocre. Rince and repeat to upgrade your ring of mediocre to a ring of the good, etc. And this game follows the same principle. Inevitably, regardless of the grind, some people will hit the endgame wall before the devs are ready to release the next step and will complain there is no benefit in being there and now everybody else can catch up.

    Another thing is to remember is that the devs don't really care about *you*. They care about having a large, paying playerbase. If the largest, paying, player base is simply a base of constantly renewing players that burn out after 8-12 months, then that is the way they will create the game. No game has infinite longevity (although WoW is really trying hard).
  • leef wrote: »
    But what is the alternative?
    honest question, rewarding veterancy has a major drawback. New players will never, ever catch up.
    (edit: i think they should increase the rate of progression for all players, new and old alike)

    Well one idea I have, and I would like feedback on this, is the rare or occasional server wide tournament with a large (several thousand players wide) rank#1, ect. These characters might be exclusive to old players, but I think a few would not be bad for the health of the game. Or maybe not even characters, some other interesting reward.
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