Mace Zeta unique idea

Since his unique stops at level 7, and since Mace is underwhelming in this game when he should be one of the most terrifying Jedi to face... I think he's ripe for a Zeta unique to make him more useful.

His Shatterpoint ability currently gives a 45% chance to expose a random enemy (irresistible) just during his turn, and he gets 25% TM for hitting them.

For a Zeta version up the chance to expose to 50-60%, and the TM boost to 40-50%. Then allow him to attack ANY exposed enemy. Meaning that he could ignore a taunt, or attack a stealthed enemy, but ONLY if they're exposed. Don't know how much trouble that would be to code. The ignore taunt part works for Boba. Stealth they haven't seemed to figure out. Even if it was just that he could ignore taunt to hit exposed enemies it would help. He could also buff block or daze exposed enemies when he attacks them or otherwise add some detrimental effects.

It would have been nice to see him get a rework. His Vaapad (since it's his lightsaber fighting style) should be a second unique just like General Kenobi's Soresu is a unique. Vaapad should give him bonuses of some kind when attacking Sith. Keep his leadership the same, and rename it, but make Vaapad a second unique. That's probably wishful thinking on my part. I doubt it will happen. But at least a Zeta on Shatterpoint seems likely.

Give me a +1 if you think Mace needs love, or if you have other/better ideas for bringing him out of the gutter then let's hear them.

Replies

  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    mace is too easy to gear to be super powerfull :p
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • quant_jock_101
    7 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    There have been a lot of suggestions for buffing Mace. This one is pretty good, and even a bit modest.

    Here's what I'd like to see. Some are improvements, some just changes.

    1: his expose chance remains the same but he exposes the entire team and can choose who to attack. At top level this would ignore taunts, can't be evaded/resisted and is an automatic crit.

    2: zeta for Mace is to apply offense and speed up to his team when he scores a critical hit. If the team are Jedi the effect lasts two turns, otherwise one turn.


    These would make him much more effective, especially as a leader. Right now he's kinda weak tea.
  • leef wrote: »
    mace is too easy to gear to be super powerfull :p

    I doubt this would make him super powered. I'm just trying to nudge him up to useful. lol
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    +1
    There have been a lot of suggestions for buffing Mace. This one is pretty good, and even a bit modest.

    Here's what I'd like to see. Some are improvements, some just changes.

    1: his expose chance remains the same but he exposes the entire team and can choose who to attack. At top level this would ignore taunts, can't be evaded/resisted and is an automatic crit.

    2: zeta for Mace is to apply offense and speed up to his team when he scores a critical hit. If the team are Jedi the effect lasts two turns, otherwise one turn.


    These would make him much more effective, especially as a leader. Right now he's kinda weak tea.

    Not this, this would be too much because of....see below:
    leef wrote: »
    mace is too easy to gear to be super powerfull :p

  • Totally agree he needs some love. I think you may be playing a bit too safe to be worth a Zeta though. Since the enemy he applies the expose to is totally random and therefore isn't always useful I think it's OK to bump up the percentages a little more significantly. If not your idea of leaving behind one or multiple debuffs would be a must I think. Or maybe gain foresight and tenacity up on successful execution of shatterpoint.

    But the ignore taunt for shatterpoint totally makes sense, both game-play wise and conceptually as far as the lore goes.

    +1
    Great Idea
  • fascizio wrote: »
    Totally agree he needs some love. I think you may be playing a bit too safe to be worth a Zeta though. Since the enemy he applies the expose to is totally random and therefore isn't always useful I think it's OK to bump up the percentages a little more significantly. If not your idea of leaving behind one or multiple debuffs would be a must I think. Or maybe gain foresight and tenacity up on successful execution of shatterpoint.

    But the ignore taunt for shatterpoint totally makes sense, both game-play wise and conceptually as far as the lore goes.

    +1
    Great Idea

    It might be a bit modest. I just don't want to be one of the people who gets on here suggesting a ridiculous, and overly complex rework that is totally convoluted, and OP.

    My main concern with Mace is the way it could be exploited to be something overpowered when combined with a resistance team. As I read your post it occurred to me that his Shatterpoint could be separated from expose by making a new debuff. As in Mace has a whatever percent chance to cause a Shatterpoint debuff (that looks like the little skull from his gear challenge) to appear over a random enemy's head instead of expose. That way you could make it a powerful ability that wouldn't be supercharged to crazy levels through unintended, and nonsensical resistance synergy.

    So my revised suggestion would be:

    Shatterpoint Zeta

    At the the start of each of his turns, Mace has a 60% chance to apply the Shatterpoint debuff to a random enemy until the end of his turn. This effect cannot be resisted. Mace can ignore taunt, or stealth to attack an enemy with the Shatterpoint debuff. Mace gains 40% turn meter when attacking an enemy with Shatterpoint, deals bonus damage equal to 25% of the target's max health (only 5% more than an exposed target), and applies Daze to the target (this would be a normal, resistible debuff).


    This might be a worthwhile ability. Definitely might make me consider gearing up Mace. Some might argue over the percentages, but I think the idea is overall pretty close to solid. Also, to address an earlier suggestion, I do think it should be ONE random enemy that can possibly get debuffed, because that's in the spirt of his actual ability which is that he can see a single weak spot others can't. But if it's random then it should be offset by being substantially more powerful. Keep in mind too that towards the end of an arena match when it's 2 vs. 2 or 1 vs. 1 the number of targets for Shatterpoint to affect will be reduced. If it procs in that situation he gets a solid advantage. Which means deal with him early, so you don't get stuck one on one with him, which is as it should be. Fighting Mace one on one should be an unpleasant experience at the least.

  • Mace is such trash for what he should be that they shouldn't try to fix it all in 1 zeta. He needs a total rework. They need to walk a fine line though not to break the game if he sits behind a GK lead with zarris.
  • medetec
    1571 posts Member
    I'll toss my hat in the ring.

    Shatterpoint - Zeta
    At the start of each of his turns, Mace has a 100% chance to Expose a random enemy until the end of his turn. This effect can't be Resisted. In addition, Mace gains 25% Turn Meter whenever he attacks an Exposed enemy, and dispels all buffs on them. For each buff dispelled, inflict the opposite debuff, if any, for 2 turns.

    If Mace is above 50% health, he ignores taunt.
  • I hadn't considered awkward unintended resistance synergy, totally makes sense. I really like the idea of separating it out as a new buff.

    The debuff he leaves behind is definitely a consideration too though since shatterpoint application is, again, random. Seems like daze could be incredibly useful against portions of a squad and then not at all useful against others. Maybe a debuff more universally useful, like offense down?

    I realize the randomness levels out at the end, and it is purposefully part of his kit, but I just feel like randomness is also a big part of why he gets left on the bench as well.

    But that's just nitpicky, overall this is a great idea. I like it.
  • Olddumper wrote: »
    Mace is such trash for what he should be that they shouldn't try to fix it all in 1 zeta. He needs a total rework. They need to walk a fine line though not to break the game if he sits behind a GK lead with zarris.

    I don't think this would totally fix him. As I said I think his leader ability should be renamed, and Vaapad should be a second unique that gives him bonus TM, and maybe some other bonus vs Sith. Or possibly a counter attack chance against Sith. Either of those fit with what it was, and that is his ability to allow the darkness of a Sith attacker to pass through him, and reflect back at them endlessly.

    That plus a butt kicking Zeta on Shatterpoint would make him a good toon, but not overpowered.
  • Neo2551
    1824 posts Member
    medetec wrote: »
    I'll toss my hat in the ring.

    Shatterpoint - Zeta
    At the start of each of his turns, Mace has a 100% chance to Expose a random enemy until the end of his turn. This effect can't be Resisted. In addition, Mace gains 25% Turn Meter whenever he attacks an Exposed enemy, and dispels all buffs on them. For each buff dispelled, inflict the opposite debuff, if any, for 2 turns.

    If Mace is above 50% health, he ignores taunt.

    This is balanced.
  • kodias
    264 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    leef wrote: »
    mace is too easy to gear to be super powerfull :p

    No kidding, just looked through his gear requirements. No stun cuffs, no furnaces. The hardest things he needs is 1 droid caller, 1 security scanner, and 1 gold item to get him to G11. If they do rework him I wonder if they will up his gear requirements... they probably won't and if they do that they would upset a lot of players. So for that reason I can't see Mace getting a rework any time soon, or even a zeta. He would be too easy to gear and EA wouldn't make much money off of him.

    I run a jedi team so it would be nice to add him to the mix. A second dispeller would be great.
  • medetec wrote: »
    I'll toss my hat in the ring.

    Shatterpoint - Zeta
    At the start of each of his turns, Mace has a 100% chance to Expose a random enemy until the end of his turn. This effect can't be Resisted. In addition, Mace gains 25% Turn Meter whenever he attacks an Exposed enemy, and dispels all buffs on them. For each buff dispelled, inflict the opposite debuff, if any, for 2 turns.

    If Mace is above 50% health, he ignores taunt.

    That's a good thought too. Reducing the power of the ability the way I had it a little, but also eliminating some of the randomness. I could get on board with that. It's somewhat underwhelming for a Zeta, and I think if it was that mild of a change it would definitely need to be part of a larger rework to make him good, but I like the idea.

    I'm surprised every post here so far has been intelligent at the least. Let's all quickly figure out how to fix Mace before the trolls find us.
  • kodias wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    mace is too easy to gear to be super powerfull :p

    No kidding, just looked through his gear requirements. No stun cuffs, no furnaces. The hardest things he needs is 1 droid caller, 1 security scanner, and 1 gold item to get him to G11. If they do rework him I wonder if they will up his gear requirements... they probably won't and if they do that they would **** off a lot of players. So for that reason I can't see Mace getting a rework any time soon, or even a zeta. He would be too easy to gear and EA wouldn't make much money off of him.

    That's true, but Yoda has been touched up several times and he was crazy easy to gear. And as much as I'd like to see a rework, I was trying to figure out a Zeta that would make him good on it's own for exactly what you suggest. There isn't much financial incentive for him to get a thorough rework. But free, easy to gear, and commonly held toons have already gotten Zeta abilities, and I have a feeling he might get one at some point.
  • JacenRoe wrote: »
    kodias wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    mace is too easy to gear to be super powerfull :p

    No kidding, just looked through his gear requirements. No stun cuffs, no furnaces. The hardest things he needs is 1 droid caller, 1 security scanner, and 1 gold item to get him to G11. If they do rework him I wonder if they will up his gear requirements... they probably won't and if they do that they would **** off a lot of players. So for that reason I can't see Mace getting a rework any time soon, or even a zeta. He would be too easy to gear and EA wouldn't make much money off of him.

    That's true, but Yoda has been touched up several times and he was crazy easy to gear. And as much as I'd like to see a rework, I was trying to figure out a Zeta that would make him good on it's own for exactly what you suggest. There isn't much financial incentive for him to get a thorough rework. But free, easy to gear, and commonly held toons have already gotten Zeta abilities, and I have a feeling he might get one at some point.

    True but I guess since Yoda took a lot of work to unlock, the devs justified giving him low requirements to compensate it a bit. I would say that Mace is still easier to gear than Yoda, and plus Mace has a capital ship so everyone got handfuls of his shards when ships first came out. He would be a very efficient investment though if he gets a zeta/rework. Capital ship + Zeta ability + low gear requirement = a toon made for the masses
  • fascizio
    572 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    I'm surprised every post here so far has been intelligent at the least. Let's all quickly figure out how to fix Mace before the trolls find us.

    Perhaps to go with your idea of making Vaapad a unique and a buff against sith make it so that it works like in the novelization and funnels back status effects on sith. So, say Palpatine goes to shock him, and Mace counterattacks and the counter has a chance to debuff Palp with shock as well?

    Could potentially work with all the sith, counters Vader and hits him with ability block, counters Maul and inflicts daze, Sid gets countered with heal immunity. Dooku would be tough since you can't counter if you're already stunned... and Savage has no debuffs, so maybe just dots?

    This is probably all to complicated for one ability... Since it's sith specific in your first concept maybe just narrow it down to daze since a lot of the sith builds rely on TM?

    Edit: Names!
  • Allenb60
    2171 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    Plo Koon as a leader deals with all of Mace Windu's specific shatterpoint counters except evasion, by dispelling taunts and removing stealth, so I don't think a zeta ability like this is totally necessary. Personally I would like to see something like "these bonuses are doubled for this turn if Mace Windu damaged an exposed target on his last turn", so a possible 90% chance to expose and 50% turn meter from hitting them
  • Vertigo
    4496 posts Member
    Allenb60 wrote: »
    Plo Koon as a leader deals with all of Mace Windu's specific shatterpoint counters except evasion, by dispelling taunts and removing stealth, so I don't think a zeta ability like this is totally necessary. Personally I would like to see something like "these bonuses are doubled for this turn if Mace Windu damaged an exposed target on his last turn", so a possible 90% chance to expose and 50% turn meter from hitting them

    But Plo's leader ability is absolutely useless unless you're going up against a Teebo led team. If they gave Plo's leader ability a Zeta that really gave clones and jedi some dual synergy together that'd be great. I see nothing wrong with giving Mace's Unique a Zeta, I just think that it needs more consistency.

    100% chance to expose 1 random target at the start of his turn (Can't be resisted). Mace can ignore taunts and stealth to attack any exposed target, will stun exposed targets when he attacks them and gains 35% TM when he attacks an exposed target. In addition, Mace deals 5% more damage to sith for every living jedi ally and 15% more damage for each dead jedi ally.

    That'd make him useful.
  • I agree Mace needs help be it a Zeta or a full on rework. The 2 buffs he got since I've been playing really didn't help him as far as making him usable.

    I like the OP Zeta idea although I feel your a little too worried about balance. With the power creep of the new toons and even the reworked toons, I don't think balance is a priority right now.
  • Given how powerful Mace is in SW lore he needs to be a stronger toon.

    +1 for a Mace rework or buff.
  • How bout:
    50% chance to apply expose to random enemy for 2 turns. If mace Windu hits an exposed enemy gain 50% TM. Double if the enemy is droid, sith, or separatist. When an ally deals damaged to an exposed en my gain 20% TM. Double if th ally was republic, clone or Jedi. Mace Windu gains 10% critical chance and an additional 5% for each republic, Jedi or clone ally. In addition he gains 20% critical damage and 10% critical damage for each droid, sith or separatist enemy. He gains offense equal to his critical chance and crit damage percentages. He gains 20% max health for every critical hit he scores.

    Mouthful but it seems not OP.

    Add to leader:
    Jedi, clone and Republic allies have a 30% chance to expose an enemy when they attack them. (Unresistable) in addition they gain 20% TM whenever they attack an exposed enemy. While Windu is alive All exposes reaply when they end except by a hit.
    Don't be a ****(4), and follow forum guidelines.
  • Maybe every enemy toon gets expose?
  • Balance totally eludes CG. Make Mace OP as hell. He needs it to keep up in the current arms race! Zeta unique should add speed, offense, crit dmg and dispel for all squad members.
  • Yeah looking at what new toon look like, I stand by totally reworking him.
  • I would like to see him work almost like GS with TM gain from expose...

    GS crits all the time so he keeps going extremely fast with the TM gain

    Mace could pop the exposes all of the time, so he acts fast because of good TM gain
  • Vertigo
    4496 posts Member
    I would like to see him work almost like GS with TM gain from expose...

    GS crits all the time so he keeps going extremely fast with the TM gain

    Mace could pop the exposes all of the time, so he acts fast because of good TM gain

    Agreed, that's why I think it should be 100% chance to expose someone, but not quite as high TM gain as GS.
  • Just throwing my idea out there, it's very similar to the others.

    Shatterpoint:
    Add: 100% expose chance, 50% chance to apply Deathmark instead. In addition, Mace Exposes all buffed enemies at that beginning of each encounter for 2 turns!

    Final text: At the start of each of his turns, Mace Exposes a random enemy until the end of his turn, with 50% chance to apply Deathmark instead. This effect can't be resisted. In addition, Mace gains 25% Turn Meter when he attacks an Exposed enemy, and at the start of each encounter Mace Exposes all buffed enemies.

    As a side note, I would love to see his Smite ability changed to be an AoE dispel (maybe with slightly reduced damage). It's rather lack luster as is, especially when compared to say Qui Gon Jinn's dispel. Maybe also change his basic to deal special damage.
  • Jay_cube1 wrote: »
    This needs to be in mace kit since it is already in the game. Shatter point! @CG_Kozispoon

    http://imgur.com/eaDUAAA

    Basic: deal physical damage to enemy( 4000-5000)

    Special: deal special damage to enemy and dispel all buffs(1000 per buff dispel)

    Leadership: Jedi and Clones allies have 50% chance to expose an enemy at the start of each turn and gain 22% TM whenever they attack an expose enemy.

    Unique: Whenever Mace Windu attacks an enemy, he has 6% chance per level to apply shatter point and gains TM equal to Potency.

    Shatter point: Mace Windu deals extra damage equal to shatter point % to enemies suffering from shatter point. This is already in the game. See image above.
    Aight peace!

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