Mace does not need anti sith abilities

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Replies

  • Eyi wrote: »
    ullumulu wrote: »
    Mace would beat palp, if anakin wouldnt stop him.

    Palps let mace win to gain anakins favour

    Not according to Lucas. In the commentary, he is very specific; Mace beat Palp fair and square, but he played Anakin against him when he arrived.

    And it plays perfectly to palps actual character
  • Smithie wrote: »
    Obi Wan defeated Anikan though but Anikan had 0 Sith training and again it comes back to plot armor. Obi Wan had to defeat Ani

    In a game like this Plot Armor does not matter

    Some could argue that Luke should have Anti Sith but again I am unsure why it wasnt his Jedi abilties that overpowered Darth Vader but him feeding off the Darkside and how he kept conflicting Vader to weaken him.

    Maybe they may add Anti Sith abilties to Jedi but in my opinion it still don't fit their characters.

    Sith lived died and breathed to kill Jedi

    I don't think it was Plot Armor for Obi Wan to kill Anakin, Obi Wan did train Anakin, and knew and understood his tendencies, they were pretty even throughout the fight, Anakin was simply trying to prove too much. He wanted to show just how much more powerful he could be without the Jedi, but he hadn't actually been trained as a sith yet, nor do I think he was fully converted to the dark side until after he learns of Padme's death. Obi Wan beating Anakin in the duel made sense in Star Wars lore. I still don't think Obi Wan would be in need of an anti-sith ability because the two sith he defeated, he didn't defeat because of his vast knowledge of sith and their ways, nor because of his extreme powers to resists dark side effects, he won because the sith enemies believed they were more powerful than anyone they might possibly face.

    Jedi Luke on the other hand, shouldn't have any anti-sith offensive abilities. He didn't kill Vader, nor did he kill EP. He defeated a much older mostly robotic man in lightsaber combat, but Vader also didn't want to kill Luke, he wanted Luke to join him and overthrow the Palpatine. Vader wasn't going to kill Luke. The only anti-sith ability Luke has going for him is his ability to resist the pull to the dark side and it's effects. If he does get any anti-sith abilities I think it should just be a unique that increases his tenacity against sith by a very large amount so that he can resist sith effects more easily than other characters can.
  • Vertigo wrote: »
    Smithie wrote: »
    Obi Wan defeated Anikan though but Anikan had 0 Sith training and again it comes back to plot armor. Obi Wan had to defeat Ani

    In a game like this Plot Armor does not matter

    Some could argue that Luke should have Anti Sith but again I am unsure why it wasnt his Jedi abilties that overpowered Darth Vader but him feeding off the Darkside and how he kept conflicting Vader to weaken him.

    Maybe they may add Anti Sith abilties to Jedi but in my opinion it still don't fit their characters.

    Sith lived died and breathed to kill Jedi

    If he does get any anti-sith abilities I think it should just be a unique that increases his tenacity against sith by a very large amount so that he can resist sith effects more easily than other characters can.

    Well Jedi look had pretty terrible tenacity when it came to force lightning
  • Vertigo wrote: »
    Smithie wrote: »
    Obi Wan defeated Anikan though but Anikan had 0 Sith training and again it comes back to plot armor. Obi Wan had to defeat Ani

    In a game like this Plot Armor does not matter

    Some could argue that Luke should have Anti Sith but again I am unsure why it wasnt his Jedi abilties that overpowered Darth Vader but him feeding off the Darkside and how he kept conflicting Vader to weaken him.

    Maybe they may add Anti Sith abilties to Jedi but in my opinion it still don't fit their characters.

    Sith lived died and breathed to kill Jedi

    If he does get any anti-sith abilities I think it should just be a unique that increases his tenacity against sith by a very large amount so that he can resist sith effects more easily than other characters can.

    Well Jedi look had pretty terrible tenacity when it came to force lightning

    Fair point, maybe just make him immune to being ability block by sith or something. Or maybe TMR.... (I see you Zader)
  • Vertigo wrote: »
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Smithie wrote: »
    Obi Wan defeated Anikan though but Anikan had 0 Sith training and again it comes back to plot armor. Obi Wan had to defeat Ani

    In a game like this Plot Armor does not matter

    Some could argue that Luke should have Anti Sith but again I am unsure why it wasnt his Jedi abilties that overpowered Darth Vader but him feeding off the Darkside and how he kept conflicting Vader to weaken him.

    Maybe they may add Anti Sith abilties to Jedi but in my opinion it still don't fit their characters.

    Sith lived died and breathed to kill Jedi

    If he does get any anti-sith abilities I think it should just be a unique that increases his tenacity against sith by a very large amount so that he can resist sith effects more easily than other characters can.

    Well Jedi look had pretty terrible tenacity when it came to force lightning

    Fair point, maybe just make him immune to being ability block by sith or something. Or maybe TMR.... (I see you Zader)

    How i wrote Luke as look ill never know.

    But yeah he should have something unique
  • Smithie
    1427 posts Member
    edited February 2017
    fascizio wrote: »
    DrewR wrote: »
    Sorry, on this subject you have to stick with the creator. Lucas already said it a few times, Mace won. Palpatine might be counting on Anakin but it didn't change the fact that Mace had Palpatine.

    This. If the writer stays mum you can draw what conclusions you feel are appropriate. Lucas didn't stay mum though. Mace defeated Palpatine. It is confirmed.
    Smithie wrote: »

    Sidious had far more Force knowledge than Yoda & Mace Windu combined.
    There is nothing whatsoever that confirms this. It is....unlikely at best that Palpatine's knowledge exceeded Yoda's centuries of training and meditation.

    Smithie wrote: »
    Darth Maul would of destroyed Obi Wan if it wasnt for his bruised ego

    They fought each other several times throughout the Clone Wars. With the exception of Maul's Mandalorians capturing Obi, Maul was never able to defeat Kenobi, including when he and Savage had a 2v1 advantage - Obi Wan ripped them to pieces...
    Smithie wrote: »
    Obi Wan couldnt last more than a few minutes vs Count Dooku

    Straight up saber fight and Dooku got his saber training from the Jedi order... not the Sith
    Smithie wrote: »
    Obi Wan defeated Anikan though but Anikan had 0 Sith training and again it comes back to plot armor. Obi Wan had to defeat Ani

    In a game like this Plot Armor does not matter

    So basically any outcome you don't care for amounts to plot armor? Kenobi was one of the strongest Jedi, he just also had a deferential personality and followed council dogma too much. I mean, Windu explains to Obi Wan that he was being sent to fight Grievous because Mace legitimately believed he had the best chance of anyone (including himself and Yoda) of defeating the general. To say he only won things because of plot armor is just so off base...


    Ok let's start it here if Qgj wasnt present the entire battle vs Maul in TFA do you really thing Obi Wan would of defeated Darth Maul?

    In ROTS Novel is explains it all in the Yoda & Sidious fight.

    The Rule Of Two was created for the exact reason why Sidious is so powerful he knew abilties the Jedi didnt know existed

    Mace Windu VS Sidious again it explains it all in the ROTS Novel

    George Lucas also stated Obi Wan was a average Jedi in the terms of power witnin the force.

    Obi Wan was no match for Count Dooku period in Saber dueling or in the Force

    Obi Wan was a Master of Soresu in ROTS which falls in perfectly vs General Grevious but vs Dooku no.

    Plot Armor means that Obi Wan cannot die as his was already in Episode 4 if there was no Episode 4 can you say he would of lasted the entire prequels when already he had entire walk way fall on his body in Episode 3
  • I think Mace could have some sith/dark side counters, after all it was what Vapaad was all about, but I don't think other jedis should have such bonus. Right now jedi "dream team" already is propably the best in game: QGJ zeta, Zarris, Obi, Ani and Yoda/whatever. If they gain anti-siths abilities it would only unbalance the game more in jedi favour while siths should exactly counter jedi meta and not be countered by it.

    And, after all, if you watch the movies the siths are the ones very well trained in facing jedis, not the other way around. Except, of course, by Mace, who was the only living jedi that trained exactly to face siths and dark side users in general. He fought toe-to-toe with Palp and probably had a better chance than Yoda himself against the sith lord exactly because Vapaad... but ingame not only Mace is garbage but his all might Vapaad is also garbage. Anyway, Yoda is faster than Palp and his tenacity bonus ability already is countering Palp lightning pretty good.

    Bonus against sith or not I think Mace is my top 1 rework priority anyway. He was not only badass but also very powerful in the canon but ingame he is so freaking bad...
  • Smithie
    1427 posts Member
    edited February 2017
    Eyi wrote: »
    ullumulu wrote: »
    Mace would beat palp, if anakin wouldnt stop him.

    Palps let mace win to gain anakins favour

    Not according to Lucas. In the commentary, he is very specific; Mace beat Palp fair and square, but he played Anakin against him when he arrived.

    How sure are you he said that, he said that Palp was faking to be beaten not that he was beaten fair and square this is on the DVD commentary of ROTS

    This is Stupendous Wave's video on the duel its a great video
    https://youtu.be/Kuo6_UK8vKY
  • Smithie wrote: »
    ullumulu wrote: »
    Mace would beat palp, if anakin wouldnt stop him.

    Explain how?

    So long as Disney does not get rid of the fighting styles, which is unlikely since they already mentioned forme 2 and 5 in the Rebels series i believe, Mace Windu was the only practitioner of Vaapad, an alteration of the Juyo form that allowed the user to become a conduit of dark energy, being able to absorb everything a Sith or any dark side user channeled at him and throw it back against them. So if Mickey Mouse doesn't renounce this form, the explanation is that Sidious was literally fighting against his own and Maces power when it was a duel. If not, well then we just have the movie, in which Mace overpowers and turns Palpatine into captain pruneface, and the guy who created Star Wars, and the characters themselves, confirming it to be true. On the opposing side of the fence there's the doctors who majored in fictional character psychology, discrediting the creator of the Movies, claiming they know Palpatine better :)
    Smithie wrote: »
    Maybe Jedi are not intended to have any Anti Sith Abilities, the Jedi couldnt even sense Palpatine was actually Darth Sidious and they all sat infront of him.

    Sidious had far more Force knowledge than Yoda & Mace Windu combined. The Jedi wasnt anti Sith in movies.

    You are basing this on a source that is not cannon. Gonna have to repeat myself - Even prior to Disney's acquisition of the Star Wars franchise, and dismissing most of the extended universe unless otherwise stated Mathew Stovers novelization of episode 3 that you are referencing was considered continuity cannon, over which both G-cannon and T-cannon had precedence (G-cannon being the 6 original episodes and any statements made by Lucas). So as much tears as it will bring to the fanboys of old Palpy, George Lucas's commentary of episode 3 confirming that Mace won the duel is the closest official source there is.

    In the fight against Yoda and Palpatine, the emperor tried to flee rather then fighting, which i sincerely doubt the omnipresent Mary Sue that you want him to be, would not do :)

    But what I may see happen more KOTOR characters with anti Sith as they fought the Sith in that time.

    Some could argue Obi Wan Kenobi should have anti Sith because he beat Darth Maul. I stand sided he shouldnt

    1. Obi Wan Plot Armor
    2. In TPM Obi Wan let his motions controll the end fight while QGJ was wounded on the floor.
    3. Darth Maul would of destroyed Obi Wan if it wasnt for his bruised ego

    Pretty sure they are arguing because of the numerous clashes between Obi vs Maul/Savage, Dooku during the clone wars series, which is the version we have, which is official canon

    Obi Wan couldnt last more than a few minutes vs Count Dooku

    Obi Wan defeated Anikan though but Anikan had 0 Sith training and again it comes back to plot armor. Obi Wan had to defeat Ani

    In a game like this Plot Armor does not matter

    Some could argue that Luke should have Anti Sith but again I am unsure why it wasnt his Jedi abilties that overpowered Darth Vader but him feeding off the Darkside and how he kept conflicting Vader to weaken him.

    Maybe they may add Anti Sith abilties to Jedi but in my opinion it still don't fit their characters.

    Sith lived died and breathed to kill Jedi

  • Mace should be the best anti-scoundrel though, did you see him take Jango's head off?
    **Please tag me (@ShaolinPunk) if you need assistance.** My Collection. . My Poll.. Ally Code: 332-622-913 Discord: shaolin_punk#2107
  • Ledinis
    193 posts Member
    edited February 2017
    Mace should be the best anti-scoundrel though, did you see him take Jango's head off?

    Nah, Han did in Boba while blind, so whe should totally be the best anti scoundrel :P

    Other than the ever lasting lore disputes from a game balance perspective, yes jedi should get speciffic extra buffs against sith, to either make it sort of a nemesis system (jedi/sith have bonuses againt each other) or make it into a rock paper scissors thing, where sith have bonuses against a Jedi, Jedi have bonuses against the seperatists, separatists have a bonus against something else and so forth. Atm its total **** (Badly Supplied) balance, when you make an entire faction meta worthy on their own AND add absurd bonuses against another faction singling them out.

    @Smithie

    Have an even better one :)
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=QSVRInt_k0Y
  • Dave79
    100 posts Member
    edited February 2017
    Lol i think there is time to learn n00bs about Star Wars *Looking at Smithie*

    Qui Gon
    Smithie wrote: »
    fascizio wrote: »
    DrewR wrote: »
    Sorry, on this subject you have to stick with the creator. Lucas already said it a few times, Mace won. Palpatine might be counting on Anakin but it didn't change the fact that Mace had Palpatine.

    This. If the writer stays mum you can draw what conclusions you feel are appropriate. Lucas didn't stay mum though. Mace defeated Palpatine. It is confirmed.
    Smithie wrote: »

    Sidious had far more Force knowledge than Yoda & Mace Windu combined.
    There is nothing whatsoever that confirms this. It is....unlikely at best that Palpatine's knowledge exceeded Yoda's centuries of training and meditation.

    Smithie wrote: »
    Darth Maul would of destroyed Obi Wan if it wasnt for his bruised ego

    They fought each other several times throughout the Clone Wars. With the exception of Maul's Mandalorians capturing Obi, Maul was never able to defeat Kenobi, including when he and Savage had a 2v1 advantage - Obi Wan ripped them to pieces...
    Smithie wrote: »
    Obi Wan couldnt last more than a few minutes vs Count Dooku

    Straight up saber fight and Dooku got his saber training from the Jedi order... not the Sith
    Smithie wrote: »
    Obi Wan defeated Anikan though but Anikan had 0 Sith training and again it comes back to plot armor. Obi Wan had to defeat Ani

    In a game like this Plot Armor does not matter

    So basically any outcome you don't care for amounts to plot armor? Kenobi was one of the strongest Jedi, he just also had a deferential personality and followed council dogma too much. I mean, Windu explains to Obi Wan that he was being sent to fight Grievous because Mace legitimately believed he had the best chance of anyone (including himself and Yoda) of defeating the general. To say he only won things because of plot armor is just so off ba


    Ok let's start it here if Qgj wasnt present the entire battle vs Maul in TFA do you really thing Obi Wan would of defeated Darth Maul?

    In ROTS Novel is explains it all in the Yoda & Sidious fight.

    The Rule Of Two was created for the exact reason why Sidious is so powerful he knew abilties the Jedi didnt know existed

    Mace Windu VS Sidious again it explains it all in the ROTS Novel

    George Lucas also stated Obi Wan was a average Jedi in the terms of power witnin the force.

    Obi Wan was no match for Count Dooku period in Saber dueling or in the Force

    Obi Wan was a Master of Soresu in ROTS which falls in perfectly vs General Grevious but vs Dooku no.

    Plot Armor means that Obi Wan cannot die as his was already in Episode 4 if there was no Episode 4 can you say he would of lasted the entire prequels when already he had entire walk way fall on his body in Episode 3


    Rule of two have nothing to do with why Sidious is powerful. It was established in order to ensure that the most powerful Sith would ultimately prevail but later Siths (like Plagueis) wanted to abolish it and create a "new order" based on cooperation because the flaw he correctly sees in Rule of two is the shortcuts to power it favors. Which wasnt the intention with it in the first place Ironically he dies of exactly that when Palps kills him in his sleep.

    And if you knew anything about the novelization of ROTS you would know that it confirms even more how much Windu toyed with wrinkle-skin:

    Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift. The fighting was effortless for him now; he let his body handle it without the intervention of his mind. While his blade spun and crackled, while his feet slid and his weight shifted and his shoulders turned in precise curves of their own direction, his mind slid along the circuit of dark power, tracing it back to its limitless source. Feeling for its shatterpoint. He found a knot of fault lines in the shadow's future; he chose the largest fracture and followed it back to the here and the now—

    And it led him, astonishingly, to a man standing frozen in the slashed-open doorway. Mace had no need to look; the presence in the Force was familiar, and was as uplifting as sunlight breaking through a thunderhead. The chosen one was here.

    Mace disengaged from the shadow's blade and leapt for the window; he slashed away the transparisteel with a single flourish. His instant's distraction cost him: a dark surge of the Force nearly blew him right out of the gap he had just cut. Only a desperate Force-push of his own altered his path enough that he slammed into a stanchion instead of plunging half a kilometer from the ledge outside. He bounced off and the Force cleared his head and once again he gave himself to Vaapad.

    He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear. Easily, almost effortlessly, he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge. Out in the wind. Out with the lightning. Out on a rain-slicked ledge above a half-kilometer drop. Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate. Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete. Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.


    Smithie wrote: »

    Sidious had far more Force knowledge than Yoda & Mace Windu combined.


    Lol. We was all n00bs once :D
  • Smithie wrote: »
    fascizio wrote: »
    DrewR wrote: »
    Sorry, on this subject you have to stick with the creator. Lucas already said it a few times, Mace won. Palpatine might be counting on Anakin but it didn't change the fact that Mace had Palpatine.

    This. If the writer stays mum you can draw what conclusions you feel are appropriate. Lucas didn't stay mum though. Mace defeated Palpatine. It is confirmed.
    Smithie wrote: »

    Sidious had far more Force knowledge than Yoda & Mace Windu combined.
    There is nothing whatsoever that confirms this. It is....unlikely at best that Palpatine's knowledge exceeded Yoda's centuries of training and meditation.

    Smithie wrote: »
    Darth Maul would of destroyed Obi Wan if it wasnt for his bruised ego

    They fought each other several times throughout the Clone Wars. With the exception of Maul's Mandalorians capturing Obi, Maul was never able to defeat Kenobi, including when he and Savage had a 2v1 advantage - Obi Wan ripped them to pieces...
    Smithie wrote: »
    Obi Wan couldnt last more than a few minutes vs Count Dooku

    Straight up saber fight and Dooku got his saber training from the Jedi order... not the Sith
    Smithie wrote: »
    Obi Wan defeated Anikan though but Anikan had 0 Sith training and again it comes back to plot armor. Obi Wan had to defeat Ani

    In a game like this Plot Armor does not matter

    So basically any outcome you don't care for amounts to plot armor? Kenobi was one of the strongest Jedi, he just also had a deferential personality and followed council dogma too much. I mean, Windu explains to Obi Wan that he was being sent to fight Grievous because Mace legitimately believed he had the best chance of anyone (including himself and Yoda) of defeating the general. To say he only won things because of plot armor is just so off base...

    Ok let's start it here if Qgj wasnt present the entire battle vs Maul in TFA do you really thing Obi Wan would of defeated Darth Maul?

    Maul vs. young padwan obi-wan?
    Obviously not in Kenobi's favor lol, but I do remember in the clone wars when an older more trained and experienced Kenobi fought maul & savage 2v1. And they couldn't beat him....

    Also I don't think it was plot armor for Kenobi to beat jka. It was master vs apprentice, Kenobi's style was perfect to counter how aggressive jka was. I don't think anyone can say which was stronger. They both seemed equal in the fight, but Kenobi was the smarter fighter. He was fighting with his head, while jka was blinded by rage.
  • Treadhead2017
    516 posts Member
    edited February 2017
    How sure are you he said that, he said that Palp was faking to be beaten not that he was beaten fair and square this is on the DVD commentary of ROTS

    Pretty sure. Here's what he said during the scene:

    "Okay, well, this sequence uh always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine, and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace, and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber. And it always was that Anakin cut the lightsaber out of his hand. But this part where he, he pretends to lose his power and be weak was something that I added later, 'cause this is, it moved the point where Anakin turns down to this moment right here, and you can see now, that it's very clear that he's, he, he wants him to go on trial so he can pump him for information about how to get these powers.”

    That seems pretty clear to me; Mace beat him (overpowerd) and Palpatine turned the situation to his advantage when Annakin showed up.
  • Smithie wrote: »
    This is Stupendous Wave's video on the duel its a great video

    I like stupendous wave's stuff. He does good work. He's wrong here though. There is nothing in the novelization that indicates that Palpatine "placed the shatterpoint." Palpatine does insist that he is not afraid... but of course he does. Anything else would be completely out of character.

    The fear was there because even after all his plotting he still could not be certain that Anakin would bite in that moment. He was certainly playing that he was totally beaten at that point to pull Anakin in, but Anakin was still the lynch pin, and uncertain. It was apparent at that point that Windu's fighting style was something he couldn't combat (per the novelization). This moment was the key, and it was the first time his fate was out of his hands. Hence the (very real) fear that evaporated the moment Anakin committed.
    Dave79 wrote: »


    Rule of two have nothing to do with why Sidious is powerful. It was established in order to ensure that the most powerful Sith would ultimately prevail but later Siths (like Plagueis) wanted to abolish it and create a "new order" based on cooperation because the flaw he correctly sees in Rule of two is the shortcuts to power it favors. Which wasnt the intention with it in the first place Ironically he dies of exactly that when Palps kills him in his sleep.

    So much this.

    People hold up the Rule of Two for so many things, and the reality is that it was an absolute failure that most of the Sith Lords only continued to utilize as a matter of convenience. It didn't increase Sith knowledge (nor was that ever part of it's intent). I was intended to help Sith retain knowledge, but it was terrible at that because Sith routinely betray and kill each other (one of the tenets of the rule), and when they do knowledge is lost. See: Darth Zannah kills Bane.

    It was also intended to ensure the most powerful Sith rules, which would work if Sith were prone to doing things like "I am the stronger, I challenge you to a duel!" but they're not. They just betray each other at the most opportune moment. See: Palpatine betrays Plagieus (bonus: knowledge lost here too).

    But most glaringly of all, when there are only two of you your whole order can die in a heartbeat. See: Vader throws Palpatine down a shaft.

    The rule of Two was awful and accomplished almost nothing it was built to do. Even it's own creator attempted to abandon it in his last days when faced with the power of his apprentice. It did not make the Sith stronger. The only thing it did was hide them until they were ready, but centuries of hiding for a few decades in power? Not really worth it.
  • Dave79 wrote: »
    Lol i think there is time to learn n00bs about Star Wars *Looking at Smithie*

    Qui Gon
    Smithie wrote: »
    fascizio wrote: »
    DrewR wrote: »
    Sorry, on this subject you have to stick with the creator. Lucas already said it a few times, Mace won. Palpatine might be counting on Anakin but it didn't change the fact that Mace had Palpatine.

    This. If the writer stays mum you can draw what conclusions you feel are appropriate. Lucas didn't stay mum though. Mace defeated Palpatine. It is confirmed.
    Smithie wrote: »

    Sidious had far more Force knowledge than Yoda & Mace Windu combined.
    There is nothing whatsoever that confirms this. It is....unlikely at best that Palpatine's knowledge exceeded Yoda's centuries of training and meditation.

    Smithie wrote: »
    Darth Maul would of destroyed Obi Wan if it wasnt for his bruised ego

    They fought each other several times throughout the Clone Wars. With the exception of Maul's Mandalorians capturing Obi, Maul was never able to defeat Kenobi, including when he and Savage had a 2v1 advantage - Obi Wan ripped them to pieces...
    Smithie wrote: »
    Obi Wan couldnt last more than a few minutes vs Count Dooku

    Straight up saber fight and Dooku got his saber training from the Jedi order... not the Sith
    Smithie wrote: »
    Obi Wan defeated Anikan though but Anikan had 0 Sith training and again it comes back to plot armor. Obi Wan had to defeat Ani

    In a game like this Plot Armor does not matter

    So basically any outcome you don't care for amounts to plot armor? Kenobi was one of the strongest Jedi, he just also had a deferential personality and followed council dogma too much. I mean, Windu explains to Obi Wan that he was being sent to fight Grievous because Mace legitimately believed he had the best chance of anyone (including himself and Yoda) of defeating the general. To say he only won things because of plot armor is just so off ba


    Ok let's start it here if Qgj wasnt present the entire battle vs Maul in TFA do you really thing Obi Wan would of defeated Darth Maul?

    In ROTS Novel is explains it all in the Yoda & Sidious fight.

    The Rule Of Two was created for the exact reason why Sidious is so powerful he knew abilties the Jedi didnt know existed

    Mace Windu VS Sidious again it explains it all in the ROTS Novel

    George Lucas also stated Obi Wan was a average Jedi in the terms of power witnin the force.

    Obi Wan was no match for Count Dooku period in Saber dueling or in the Force

    Obi Wan was a Master of Soresu in ROTS which falls in perfectly vs General Grevious but vs Dooku no.

    Plot Armor means that Obi Wan cannot die as his was already in Episode 4 if there was no Episode 4 can you say he would of lasted the entire prequels when already he had entire walk way fall on his body in Episode 3


    Rule of two have nothing to do with why Sidious is powerful. It was established in order to ensure that the most powerful Sith would ultimately prevail but later Siths (like Plagueis) wanted to abolish it and create a "new order" based on cooperation because the flaw he correctly sees in Rule of two is the shortcuts to power it favors. Which wasnt the intention with it in the first place Ironically he dies of exactly that when Palps kills him in his sleep.

    And if you knew anything about the novelization of ROTS you would know that it confirms even more how much Windu toyed with wrinkle-skin:

    Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift. The fighting was effortless for him now; he let his body handle it without the intervention of his mind. While his blade spun and crackled, while his feet slid and his weight shifted and his shoulders turned in precise curves of their own direction, his mind slid along the circuit of dark power, tracing it back to its limitless source. Feeling for its shatterpoint. He found a knot of fault lines in the shadow's future; he chose the largest fracture and followed it back to the here and the now—

    And it led him, astonishingly, to a man standing frozen in the slashed-open doorway. Mace had no need to look; the presence in the Force was familiar, and was as uplifting as sunlight breaking through a thunderhead. The chosen one was here.

    Mace disengaged from the shadow's blade and leapt for the window; he slashed away the transparisteel with a single flourish. His instant's distraction cost him: a dark surge of the Force nearly blew him right out of the gap he had just cut. Only a desperate Force-push of his own altered his path enough that he slammed into a stanchion instead of plunging half a kilometer from the ledge outside. He bounced off and the Force cleared his head and once again he gave himself to Vaapad.

    He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear. Easily, almost effortlessly, he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge. Out in the wind. Out with the lightning. Out on a rain-slicked ledge above a half-kilometer drop. Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate. Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete. Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.


    Smithie wrote: »

    Sidious had far more Force knowledge than Yoda & Mace Windu combined.


    Lol. We was all n00bs once :D

    Haha! Thats alot to read :smiley:

    That is alot of Mace's view, hopefully Disney can clear this up haha there is more to that too that Palpatine created a false shatterpoint and make Mace belive he was in fear.

    The Rule Of Two was created so Sith knowledge were passed down through generations of Sith and only the strong is too be the victor hence why Palpatine was so strong also.
  • Haha anyway I love talking about Star Wars all the time and love theories and facts.

    This will always be the biggest debate in Star Wars history and we need a Palpatine movie and a Mace movie or another book

    Gotta run for now just finishing my lasest video How Palpatine beat Mace haha only joking :wink:
  • Smithie wrote: »
    ... we need a Palpatine movie and a Mace movie or another book ...

    I'd be so on board for a Palpatine movie...
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