Balance; a thing of the past

Treadhead2017

Before i get into details, let me preface my comments by saying I do really enjoy the game and have spent my share - and probably more - buying gems and packs. So I'm invested, and I've played it longer and more regularly than any game I've ever played. And not just mobile; I mean any game ever.

That said, I'm concerned about balance. New toons just keep getting more and more abilities, powers and advantages older ones don't have. And it's making toons obsolete, worse than ever.

Example: two new no-name toons (Sith trooper and assassin) are far superior to most of the "named" unique toons. Sith assassin is better than basically every Jedi in the game, save maybe Yoda and GK. The Jedi in general are laughably weak now. Tough enough, I suppose, but most can't hit hard at all, they have **** poor synergy that provides no real bonuses, and they're too easily overpowered by almost any other faction. I have a Jedi team that tops 46k points (QGJ lead, Mace, Yoda, AS, Luminara) and is completely maxed in level, gear and abilities. But they routinely get thrashed in arena by much weaker teams because they have no synrergy and none of them hit hard.

Ask a Star Wars fan these questions and see what they answer:

In a fight between Mace Windu and A Tie fighter pilot, who wins? How about Yoda versus Dooku? Or QGJ versus Biggs? They'll pick the Jedi every time, because the canon, the expanded universe, and every other game has them as the premier fighters in the Star Wars universe. In this game? Not even close. They're now the weakest faction in the game...the only way they aren't is of you can get GK who's **** near the hardest character in the game to get. Ewoks are stronger. Droids are stronger. Jaws are stronger. It's pathetic.

Thing is, it's because all of them save Yoda were in the game from the start. They were good back then...back when every character didn't have multiple specials with combinations of buffs and debuffs and overpowering synergies. But now they're behind. So...I'm sure that means that in a few months, there will be a Jedi revolution where they'll get reworked, packages will be offered selling them all, and new ones will be introduced. Seeing a hint of that now...the Jedi sentinel in the Siath Assassin event.

I just wish the game would settle on some balanced toons and stop introducing overpowered ones that throw the game out of balance.

spotremix

i think it's kind of a good thing. those who don't use the meta for whatever reason need something to combat these OP meta teams.

now we might have a fighting chance.

TyGonJinn27

To answer your questions:

Mace Windu would win.
Yoda should win.
QGJ would never fight Biggs because they're both good guys.

Ledinis

Going a bit overkill here dude... Yeah they are not as good as rebels, imps and sith with their plethora of new toons, yeah they more or less have only one usable leader, but they are still usable in most activities in the game and arent as bad as ewoks The thing that bugs me the most though is that they seem to have the worst synergy, while the new reworked Sith (who had the "rule of two" in the movies era, and back stabbed and killed each other on every turn in the kotor times) are portrayed as such team players that supplement each other perfectly As for the settling down, it would literally kill the need to rush for new characters which would mean no cash for the sarlacc... i mean EA, so thats not likely to happen

PoederAmon

TyGonJinn27 wrote: »

.
QGJ would never fight Biggs because they're both good guys.

^This.
I was like, why would QGJ hate on Biggs? Maybe the stash, but that's not something to get killed over.

It would be the other way around, Biggs would kill QGJ, because of his ponytail.


OT, many old toons are getting a boost. I'm guessing Jedi's are up in the short future to get buffed and become relevant.
These months are dark side, as mentioned by CG, so light side might get a boost this summer as the release of the new movie gets closer.

Junior8503

Jedi are too easy to get and max out to be top tier..imo.

Ayzen_1024

Junior8503 wrote: »

Jedi are too easy to get and max out to be top tier..imo.

That doesn't make sense. Rebels are far easier to obtain and max and they're forever one of the most synergistic and dominating factions

Maegor

The meta is as wide as it's ever been. Zetas have been the best addition to the game for balance.

xReDeMpx

Thread is already irrelevant by trying to compare how they should stand on a power scale in lore compared to a game

Maegor

OP, why are you using and why did you max Lumi?

And is your qgj zeta'd?

Big_Boss

Maegor wrote: »

OP, why are you using and why did you max Lumi?

And is your qgj zeta'd?

This!!
Why are you using Lumi? Why are you using mace??

Also Anakin, Aayla are beast
Ahsoka Ima gun di are also pretty good

Casual_Player

xReDeMpx wrote: »

Thread is already irrelevant by trying to compare how they should stand on a power scale in lore compared to a game

so how about compared to empire and sith? they are strong in the lore and in the game.
i dont think meta has wide diversity, still old narrowed option(op toon matters mostly newest toon while other would weak/obsolete)

Treadhead2017

Hmmm. I may be expressing myself poorly. This isn't meant to be a "Jedi need some love" thread, though they do. It's about the constant power creep. New no-name characters are being introduced that are superior to old, established unique ones. I'm sure the Jedi will have a facelift soon. But then what? Who will be left behind then? And what new uber toon or faction will be introduced? I mean. They just introduced a character who has an ability that instantly kills any other character. What's next?

As for it being a game and not a movie, wow. I sure am glad someone was able to point that out. I mean, how would we know these things without you?

But let's consider another example. Let's say you're playing a similar game based on comic books. In this game, Superman and Bateman are in the initial batch of characters introduced. Later, after all the classics are put in, new characters are introduced that totally outclass them both. And we're not talking those monster bad guys....I'm talking characters like "Joker Goon" or "Penquin Enforcer". And these new characters are better than Batman or Superman? Does that make sense?

I dunno. I just worry that before too long you'll have whole big batches of characters that are essentially worthless. I get it from a business model. Make toons that people will pay to have....and to d that, they have to be worth it. Value for money. Simple. But how long will it be before the Rebel meta is no good? Or the current nephew Sith meta is outclassed? Just seems to me that striking a balance and holding it would be better long term, but I don't get that sense.

Mullato

But who is the "Batman and Superman?"

Vader and Palp? Both are completely viable
Jka and general Kenobi? Both are completely viable
Yoda and QGJ? Both have old kits, but just got zetas that make them viable in setups.

What no-name characters have came out that are better than them? Just about the only toon you can argue for is mace windu, but I have a feeling he will get some love soon. You have shore, srp, sith assassin, and sith trooper. While they are good toons, I wouldn't say they out-class any of the above mentioned toons. The 2 new sith toons seem to be situational at best with niches. Srp is outclassed still imo by sth. Shore is the one that seems to be the most widely useable, but he's still outclassed by baze (A "named" toon from the newest star wars installment.)

Tatebomb

First off welcome to gaming. Power creep always happens. How would they sell the new character if he/she is terrible. As far as the who beats who fight that's very irrelevant. In chess who would win a queen or a pawn? So how did my opponent take my queen with his pawn? Lastly I hate to break it to you but your jedi team is horrible.

Roadburn12

You made 1 crucial mistake, thinking canon/EU "power levels" have any bearing on the game

iAmRyC

Yeah, my Jedi are still quite viable. I just finished payout at #2 with ZGJ (L), JKA, Ahsoka, Zarriss & Boba. Only two teams in my shard that I can't beat (both Zader, but it's their mods that outshine me). I can handle your Wiggs, Chaze, Sith & Empire.

Tuftedpaper85

Zetas have rendered most non-zeta leads obsolete. Yes, I can be very competitive with a QGJ zeta team. Problem is, that when I switch him out for another Jedi, I go from top 10 to barely holding onto top 50 in one or two days with all else being equal in my team. It tells me that a lot of what we see coming out is a just a band-aid for the underlying balance issues that exist between older characters and newer ones.

I think they should give every character a zeta leader ability to allow for more diversity, or they should just admit that some characters who have leader abilities aren't meant to be used as leaders later in the game and then give them a new ability to replace it. Ahsoka for example, has a leader ability that badly needs to be reworked because I don't think there's any amount of strategy or mods can make it succeed

Ikenstein86

I think it would make sense if lore was built into the game by making the most powerful toons both the most iconic and the hardest to get. We see this a bit with the palp and yoda events, raid characters, and vader being achievement only for so long, but this exists in the same game where I have a 7* vader but I'm clamoring for shoretrooper shards. I think a big draw for a lot of people is getting their favorite character and it's frustrating when your boba fett, qui gonn, or vader are getting blasted by no-names. I hope they introduce a way to make the big names more powerful and have us chasing that. I think the reworks and zeta abilities are a great step in that direction, but the transition is kind of strange right now. Everyone already has the majority of the big names, but they have to keep us jonesin' for something. I hope they steer more in the direction of difficult to obtain upgrades more than scraping the barrel for new characters that blow the old ones out of the water. So far, they've shown us a bit of both.

J0K3R

Does everyone know this is a game played on a holotable? Sometimes i wonder...

HQFireBall

Need to make the game fun...

NicWester

Power creep happens in all games. You have to release new stuff if you want to keep a game healthy--new raids, new levels, new gear, new characters, new new new new new. But once you've released a certain number of characters at one power level, what do you do? Like, take glass cannons for example. You have the First Order TIE Pilot who does a massive amount of damage (well, heh, used to, anyway...) but has all the durability of a cardboard box. Then you have Rey, who doesn't do quite as much damage, and has about the same durability, but gets evasion to compensate. So what do you do with the next glass cannon? They hit harder but have even less HP?

Early characters are simple and straightforward, filling the roles--tank, dps, healing, whatever--in a very direct way. New characters have to do something different, or else there's no need to bother getting them. If there's no need to bother getting them, you're only appealing to collectors (the gotta catch'em all mentality, which I know very well because that's me!). But collectors don't pay much, because for us the satisfaction isn't in HAVING a character, it's from GETTING a character. So the longer it takes us to acquire and develop that character, the more fun we're having. Actually using them is... Eh.

So you need to give people an incentive to HAVE the character, and making them a little bit more complex, a little more interesting, a little stronger is a way of doing that. It's also useful for breaking up stale metas.

What happens to those old characters? Well, normally they just sit there and collect dust. But if you're a new player coming to the game, it's just as easy to get B2 as it is to get IG-100 (well, okay, yeah, B2 is at a later node, but you get the point) so they have no reason to get the "weaker" characters that we have. That's where redesigns and zetas come in. They recently buffed a bunch of Sith who were in the game from the start--that gives an advantage to people who farmed them back in May, rewarding their longevity and keeping them invested in the future of the game because now ANYONE can become good after the right redesign, and it incentivizes new players to grind up "weaker" characters.

Zetas and ships were also added as a way of making older "beginner" characters viable in end game content without redesigning them. Like, the first character you get when you start the game is the Jedi Consular. JC will carry a lot of water for you for the first 50 levels, or however long it takes to get Luminara, and then just sit around collecting dust. The character doesn't need a redesign because he serves his function perfectly--an introductory character that works until you get something better. So they gave him a really good ship to incentivize you to level and gear him once you've outgrown him. Darth Vader is a strong character, but there's no reason to use him as a leader over Palpatine, so they gave him a Zeta upgrade to his leader ability and now you have a legitimate choice to make.

TL;DR: Yeah. Sorta. Balance shifts, but it doesn't break--it just shifts in a new direction and old characters are left behind until something else in the game changes to bring them forward.