How is TM boost at beginning of match calculated?

Darth Maul leadership gives a 20% TM boost to all Sith allies at the beginning of an encounter. If a Sith on that team has a speed of 204, I would have thought that would mean their effective speed to start the match would be 245 (204 + 20% of 204), and that any toon on my side with a speed greater than 245 would go first. But in reality, that 204 speed toon goes ahead of my 255 speed TFP. Can anybody clarify how TM boost is calculated at the beginning of a match?

Replies

  • I believe that would be the begining of each of thier turns.

    So if they arent fast enough to go first they wont... but each encounter they will receive the TM boost
  • Not sure what you are saying. The description says they get TM boost at beginning of any encounter. An encounter, Immpreuming, means a match or battle. I'm wondering how I can calculate the order toons will go to start a match when facing a Darth Maul-led team.
  • CapGaSP
    313 posts Member
    edited February 2017
    "Turn meter fill" and "speed bonus" are different effects. Turn meter fill is a literal "Set the turn meter to X%" mechanic in most cases. Usually something that says "Grants X TM" in the description is not a speed modifier, it's literally just adding some amount to the turn meter of the unit. This is why no matter how fast a unit, you can't go before Han Solo. Additionally, in most cases where speed is identical then it's rng about who goes first.
    Designer of all things Events for SW:GoH.
    reddit: /u/Capgasp
    I don't reply to attacks or negativity. Keep it civil.
  • Ah, that makes sense. Thanks @CG_CapGaSP. So we know that Han Solo's TM is initially set at 100%. Is there any way to know what those starting pcts are for each of the toons?
  • I heard you multiply by 1.25 for Maul to get Sith's starting speed
  • This is something I always wanted to know. Can someone tell me if this is correct. Imagine that there's no Han Solo in the match. Let's assume that the fastest character of the match has a speed of 266. And that a Sith has 212 speed and Darth Maul is leader. Since the fastest character has full bar, the Sith has 212/266*100 percentage of TM, that is, 79,699%. Add 20% and you get 99,699%. So the fastest character goes first. Now if the Sith has 214 speed that gives a 80,303% of TM. Add 20% and you get 100,303%. So it's a coin flip.
  • That would make sense @El_Barto_Punk. Wonder if that's actually how it's done.
  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    Most characters start with 0% TM.
    Sith under maul lead and Han solo are the only exception to this (I believe)

    If you want to compare a sith under maul lead starting speed to any character not getting the boost then the effective speed of the sith is modded speed x 1.25
    so at 204 that would be an effective speed of 204*1.25 = 255

    Where does 1.25 come from? Since sith are starting with 20% TM they only have to fill 80% TM while you TFP has to fill 100% TM so 100/80 = 1.25

    So the sith would go before anyone that starts with 0% TM that has a speed of 254 or lower

    Since the effective speed is exactly the same as you 255 TFP it is RNG as CapGaSP said that happened to pick maul to go first.
  • 1.25 multiplexer for zaul team is correct, I have tested this myself in arena and it is accurate
  • I just posted something similar in the bug section about this and got this back in reply. Pretty much been summarized already but basically you just divide their current speed by .8 and you get their speed value so you can determine how fast your toons need to be to go before them.

    This was the breakdown for me. My Yoda at 266 goes first then the enemies EP at 211 speed went second over my 260 speed qgj, With Zaul lead EP had 264 speed. I fought this guy a couple times and my zqgj went before his EP one of the three times I fought him. I'm not entirely sure why this happened so there may be something wrong with it.

    Zaul lead gives sith with speed of 200, 50 speed per evade and at the start of the encounter. Add in their evasion, stealth, advantage, and crit immunity and you have one OP lead ability.
  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    Wait till you get in to trying to figure out tm push to set turn order with sith Assassin under zeta Maul lead...
  • Thanks all. Good info.
  • kodias wrote: »
    I just posted something similar in the bug section about this and got this back in reply. Pretty much been summarized already but basically you just divide their current speed by .8 and you get their speed value so you can determine how fast your toons need to be to go before them.

    This was the breakdown for me. My Yoda at 266 goes first then the enemies EP at 211 speed went second over my 260 speed qgj, With Zaul lead EP had 264 speed. I fought this guy a couple times and my zqgj went before his EP one of the three times I fought him. I'm not entirely sure why this happened so there may be something wrong with it.

    Zaul lead gives sith with speed of 200, 50 speed per evade and at the start of the encounter. Add in their evasion, stealth, advantage, and crit immunity and you have one OP lead ability.

    Now that we've settled the speed question, a suggestion, if I may:

    Stop trying to beat scissors with paper. Darth Maul and Sith in general have huge bonuses versus Jedi (many of which have nothing to do with their leader abilities). Either avoid Maul teams or change yours. It's not rocket surgery.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • scuba wrote: »
    Wait till you get in to trying to figure out tm push to set turn order with sith Assassin under zeta Maul lead...

    Lol I'm working on it, what an gear eater!

  • Thanks @scuba. That will help me wargame the start of matches much better now.
  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    So for anyone wanting to know the caculation to figure out turn orders with Sith Assassin (SA).

    Note this is not using the effective speed but the actual modded speed of the character.
    The TM another sith will be at when SA reaches 100% TM is
    (((Sith Speed)/(SA Speed))*80)+20

    Example Sid TM when Sith Assasian reaches 100% TM:
    SA Modded speed is 250
    Sid Modded speed is 200

    ((200/250)*80)+20 = 84% TM

    You have to use actual speed and not effective speed because effective speed spreads the 20% gain over the entire TM bar range which the other sith would not have covered at that time.

    So if you want to work backwards to find a speed that will put a character at less than 100% TM to set turn order.
    (((100-TM Push)-20)*SA Speed)/80

    Simplified
    ((80-TM Push)*SA Speed)/80

    Assuming 36% TM push because of 3 buffs
    (44*SA Speed)/80 or 0.55*SA speed

    Again assume SA speed of 250
    0.55*250 = 137.5

    So any sith with modded speed of 137 or lower would be at less than 100% TM and 138 and above would be at 100% or above TM if sith assassin TM push is 36%

    I have not tested to verify (don't have zeta maul) but math should work.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    kodias wrote: »
    I just posted something similar in the bug section about this and got this back in reply. Pretty much been summarized already but basically you just divide their current speed by .8 and you get their speed value so you can determine how fast your toons need to be to go before them.

    This was the breakdown for me. My Yoda at 266 goes first then the enemies EP at 211 speed went second over my 260 speed qgj, With Zaul lead EP had 264 speed. I fought this guy a couple times and my zqgj went before his EP one of the three times I fought him. I'm not entirely sure why this happened so there may be something wrong with it.

    Zaul lead gives sith with speed of 200, 50 speed per evade and at the start of the encounter. Add in their evasion, stealth, advantage, and crit immunity and you have one OP lead ability.

    Now that we've settled the speed question, a suggestion, if I may:

    Stop trying to beat scissors with paper. Darth Maul and Sith in general have huge bonuses versus Jedi (many of which have nothing to do with their leader abilities). Either avoid Maul teams or change yours. It's not rocket surgery.

    My Jedi still have no real issue with Zaul. Maul is still pretty slow and as long as I can proc b2 while I have foresight up (ideally have qgj one point faster than yoda so he can activate B2s aoe on his attack then yoda goes and gives tenacity up and foresight again if zeta'd). Maul does a lot of damage with his aoe but if he kills anyone my Jedi gain foresight so he wont kill a second.

    Now that I understand how they gain tm I can callibrate my team to make sure my yoda and qgj go first. Most annoying thing about Zaul is his 20% evasion. Add zid into the mix and he has 55% evasion (only against jedi) he isn't much of a issue, most times I leave Zid till last anyways unless aayla lands a stun. Tenacity up is still a good counter to Zaul so as long as B2 doesn't wipe it off, Jedi teams have a good chance against Zauls.

    I just hope the dodge meta doesn't return.
  • scuba
    14034 posts Member
    kodias wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    kodias wrote: »
    I just posted something similar in the bug section about this and got this back in reply. Pretty much been summarized already but basically you just divide their current speed by .8 and you get their speed value so you can determine how fast your toons need to be to go before them.

    This was the breakdown for me. My Yoda at 266 goes first then the enemies EP at 211 speed went second over my 260 speed qgj, With Zaul lead EP had 264 speed. I fought this guy a couple times and my zqgj went before his EP one of the three times I fought him. I'm not entirely sure why this happened so there may be something wrong with it.

    Zaul lead gives sith with speed of 200, 50 speed per evade and at the start of the encounter. Add in their evasion, stealth, advantage, and crit immunity and you have one OP lead ability.

    Now that we've settled the speed question, a suggestion, if I may:

    Stop trying to beat scissors with paper. Darth Maul and Sith in general have huge bonuses versus Jedi (many of which have nothing to do with their leader abilities). Either avoid Maul teams or change yours. It's not rocket surgery.

    My Jedi still have no real issue with Zaul. Maul is still pretty slow and as long as I can proc b2 while I have foresight up (ideally have qgj one point faster than yoda so he can activate B2s aoe on his attack then yoda goes and gives tenacity up and foresight again if zeta'd). Maul does a lot of damage with his aoe but if he kills anyone my Jedi gain foresight so he wont kill a second.

    Now that I understand how they gain tm I can callibrate my team to make sure my yoda and qgj go first. Most annoying thing about Zaul is his 20% evasion. Add zid into the mix and he has 55% evasion (only against jedi) he isn't much of a issue, most times I leave Zid till last anyways unless aayla lands a stun. Tenacity up is still a good counter to Zaul so as long as B2 doesn't wipe it off, Jedi teams have a good chance against Zauls.

    I just hope the dodge meta doesn't return.

    Prepare to be disappointed.
  • I know, I'm not looking forward to it.. Maybe all those accuracy arrows might actually serve a purpose.. but they will probably need to buff them so that its worth taking the 30 speed hit.
  • 7AnimalMother
    2053 posts Member
    edited February 2017
    CG_CapGaSP wrote: »
    "This is why no matter how fast a unit, you can't go before Han Solo.

    Just as an FYI - In GW, if Zaul kills someone with his basic as the last action on a node he fills his TM to 100. If the next node has Raid Han, Zaul still goes first.
  • CG_CapGaSP wrote: »
    "This is why no matter how fast a unit, you can't go before Han Solo.

    Just as an FYI - In GW, if Zaul kills someone with his basic as the last action on a node he fills his TM to 100. If the next node has Raid Han, Zaul still goes first.

    True, but it's because of the same mechanic. He kills someone and receives a TM fill of 100%.
  • kodias wrote: »
    I know, I'm not looking forward to it.. Maybe all those accuracy arrows might actually serve a purpose.. but they will probably need to buff them so that its worth taking the 30 speed hit.

    I just slapped an accuracy arrow on my B2 now that he's G11. :)
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • CG_CapGaSP wrote: »
    "This is why no matter how fast a unit, you can't go before Han Solo.

    Just as an FYI - In GW, if Zaul kills someone with his basic as the last action on a node he fills his TM to 100. If the next node has Raid Han, Zaul still goes first.

    In any case where units have the same %TM granted by a fill effect, it's an equal percent rng split as to who goes first. So in this scenario, he'd have at a 50% chance to go before Han.
    Designer of all things Events for SW:GoH.
    reddit: /u/Capgasp
    I don't reply to attacks or negativity. Keep it civil.
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    kodias wrote: »
    I know, I'm not looking forward to it.. Maybe all those accuracy arrows might actually serve a purpose.. but they will probably need to buff them so that its worth taking the 30 speed hit.

    I just slapped an accuracy arrow on my B2 now that he's G11. :)

    B2 is the only character worthwhile to put an Accuracy arrow on, if he gets shocked or dazed a 30 speed primary arrow isn't going to make him super fast because he's already super slow, so you might as well just ensure that he's hitting his targets.
  • djvita
    1684 posts Member
    i have zeta maul, and i modded my assasin to 230 speed before getting her to g8 lvl7. she went before a a 249 qgj lead.


    249+30 = 279 speed

    230*1.25 = 287.5 speed

    now shes omegad and has the extra 3 speed from the mk2 stun cuffs
    233 speed
Sign In or Register to comment.