Ironically, a zVader-led team may be a good counter to a Nihilus lead. zVader doesn't create "buffs" on teammates that Nihilus can dispel with his basic. Get Vader or TFP to ability block Nihilus to prevent him from using his special.
It will be difficult to counter zaul, sa, vader, nihilus and auto tount tank (GK or baze) if you can put enough speed on them. I am going to build this team for new meta but aware that they will likely be vulnerable on defense as AI is known to play badly with zaul teams already. But nonetheless that will be a fun team.
Zaul: +101 speed 186% crit damage or +82 speed 211% crit damage
SA: +112 speed 186% crit damage (base speed 151 so 263 plus zaul's 20% tm boost)
Zader: +99 speed 186% crit damage
Nihilus +98 speed 186 crit damage
Baze (GK to follow in couple of weeks): could be +99 speed as well but thinking to go +66 and use protection arrow
Will be difficult to run against this team although there are always ways around anything in this game. SA goes first for sure unless somebody has faster SA, and gives further 36% tm to sith which brings Zader in right after her and then Nihilus, so all enemies debuffed he uses his force drain and reduces annihilate cooldown to 2. Next turn SA electricutes, Zader throws the blade etc. Turn after its Nihilus time to annihilate. At this point safe to say match is won. Even if Baze dies in second turn, likely that sith will survive further turns all tanky except Zaul and stealth will help as well.
Nihilus is far from garbage. You aren't using him for his damage--though he can do that if ignored--you're using him for his leader ability. You're trading potential crits for regular hits that do 10% more damage than crits. No crits means you free up those mod slots for other effects--potency for Sith's many debuffs, offense to further increase that damage, health or protection.
He also has the same soft taunt Rey had back in the day--you could attack anyone you want, but if you leave Nihilus alone he's going to wreck you junk. This means your opponent has to remove him before they can handle your other threats--Maul, Vader, Palpatine...
Nihilus is far from garbage. You aren't using him for his damage--though he can do that if ignored--you're using him for his leader ability. You're trading potential crits for regular hits that do 10% more damage than crits. No crits means you free up those mod slots for other effects--potency for Sith's many debuffs, offense to further increase that damage, health or protection.
He also has the same soft taunt Rey had back in the day--you could attack anyone you want, but if you leave Nihilus alone he's going to wreck you junk. This means your opponent has to remove him before they can handle your other threats--Maul, Vader, Palpatine...
10% more then crits? Euhhh no. Crit are 150% base-216% mods....lead give you 60%
Free your mods? Euhhh no you'll need to stack up offence mods
Nihilus is far from garbage. You aren't using him for his damage--though he can do that if ignored--you're using him for his leader ability. You're trading potential crits for regular hits that do 10% more damage than crits. No crits means you free up those mod slots for other effects--potency for Sith's many debuffs, offense to further increase that damage, health or protection.
He also has the same soft taunt Rey had back in the day--you could attack anyone you want, but if you leave Nihilus alone he's going to wreck you junk. This means your opponent has to remove him before they can handle your other threats--Maul, Vader, Palpatine...
10% more then crits? Euhhh no. Crit are 150% base-216% mods....lead give you 60%
Free your mods? Euhhh no you'll need to stack up offence mods
Crits = offense * 216% = offense + offense *116%. If cc was 50% then = offense + offense * 58%.
Unless I'm mistaken, nihilus gives everyone the equivalent of 50% crit chance at 220% crit dmg.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
I was thinking a resistance team. With such a big pool of health with his leader ability, where Sith will have double the normal health, expose could do some BIG damage.
This will be interesting to see. That will make expose huge.
Nihilus is far from garbage. You aren't using him for his damage--though he can do that if ignored--you're using him for his leader ability. You're trading potential crits for regular hits that do 10% more damage than crits. No crits means you free up those mod slots for other effects--potency for Sith's many debuffs, offense to further increase that damage, health or protection.
He also has the same soft taunt Rey had back in the day--you could attack anyone you want, but if you leave Nihilus alone he's going to wreck you junk. This means your opponent has to remove him before they can handle your other threats--Maul, Vader, Palpatine...
10% more then crits? Euhhh no. Crit are 150% base-216% mods....lead give you 60%
Free your mods? Euhhh no you'll need to stack up offence mods
Crits = offense * 216% = offense + offense *116%. If cc was 50% then = offense + offense * 58%.
Unless I'm mistaken, nihilus gives everyone the equivalent of 50% crit chance at 220% crit dmg.
This isn't meant to be crappy, just curious where you're getting your formula from? I would think it would just be attack power * 1.6, no? If you look at the damage from a Vader lead with a 50% gain, that's a nice bump but you'd still rather Vader crit on his culling blade than not crit, huge difference in damage. I don't think the advantage of his lead is that you get more damage, I think the advantage is that you avoid crit buffs given by characters like Maul lead, Barris zeta, and General Kenobi, not to mention avoiding Rex's leader ability. So you can still do modest damage without the other "annoyances."
I think Nihilus with SA both at 7-star will be strong but I don't think it's an OP combination anybody has to worry about. Honestly I'm more concerned about Nihilus under a Maul lead when you Baze tanking here and there and Nihilus going in-and-out-of stealth and you can't even hit him because of the slot machine factor of dodge. If Maul with DN becomes meta, B2's value just grow 100-fold.
Nihilus is far from garbage. You aren't using him for his damage--though he can do that if ignored--you're using him for his leader ability. You're trading potential crits for regular hits that do 10% more damage than crits. No crits means you free up those mod slots for other effects--potency for Sith's many debuffs, offense to further increase that damage, health or protection.
He also has the same soft taunt Rey had back in the day--you could attack anyone you want, but if you leave Nihilus alone he's going to wreck you junk. This means your opponent has to remove him before they can handle your other threats--Maul, Vader, Palpatine...
10% more then crits? Euhhh no. Crit are 150% base-216% mods....lead give you 60%
Free your mods? Euhhh no you'll need to stack up offence mods
Crits = offense * 216% = offense + offense *116%. If cc was 50% then = offense + offense * 58%.
Unless I'm mistaken, nihilus gives everyone the equivalent of 50% crit chance at 220% crit dmg.
Except offence and crit damage multiply by each other while offence and offence just add together. And everyone is getting at least some extra offence from mods already.
If the enemy is running stealthed or crit immune, or is using Zarriss or a Rex lead, Nihilus' offence for crit chance will be a good trade, but for the most part it will either lower damage output or not give enough of a boost to be worth sacrificing other leaders abilities for.
The protection to health trade is better, but will still have weaknesses such as vs. resistance, or Savage. Nihilus' lead will give some nice extra diversity to a Sith squad, but mostly I expect he will be running under someone else.
Nihilus is far from garbage. You aren't using him for his damage--though he can do that if ignored--you're using him for his leader ability. You're trading potential crits for regular hits that do 10% more damage than crits. No crits means you free up those mod slots for other effects--potency for Sith's many debuffs, offense to further increase that damage, health or protection.
He also has the same soft taunt Rey had back in the day--you could attack anyone you want, but if you leave Nihilus alone he's going to wreck you junk. This means your opponent has to remove him before they can handle your other threats--Maul, Vader, Palpatine...
10% more then crits? Euhhh no. Crit are 150% base-216% mods....lead give you 60%
Free your mods? Euhhh no you'll need to stack up offence mods
Crits = offense * 216% = offense + offense *116%. If cc was 50% then = offense + offense * 58%.
Unless I'm mistaken, nihilus gives everyone the equivalent of 50% crit chance at 220% crit dmg.
This isn't meant to be ****, just curious where you're getting your formula from? I would think it would just be attack power * 1.6, no? If you look at the damage from a Vader lead with a 50% gain, that's a nice bump but you'd still rather Vader crit on his culling blade than not crit, huge difference in damage. I don't think the advantage of his lead is that you get more damage, I think the advantage is that you avoid crit buffs given by characters like Maul lead, Barris zeta, and General Kenobi, not to mention avoiding Rex's leader ability. So you can still do modest damage without the other "annoyances."
I think Nihilus with SA both at 7-star will be strong but I don't think it's an OP combination anybody has to worry about. Honestly I'm more concerned about Nihilus under a Maul lead when you Baze tanking here and there and Nihilus going in-and-out-of stealth and you can't even hit him because of the slot machine factor of dodge. If Maul with DN becomes meta, B2's value just grow 100-fold.
Just averages... From stated stats. Crit dmg averaged over chances to hit compared to constant offense up.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
Nihilus is far from garbage. You aren't using him for his damage--though he can do that if ignored--you're using him for his leader ability. You're trading potential crits for regular hits that do 10% more damage than crits. No crits means you free up those mod slots for other effects--potency for Sith's many debuffs, offense to further increase that damage, health or protection.
He also has the same soft taunt Rey had back in the day--you could attack anyone you want, but if you leave Nihilus alone he's going to wreck you junk. This means your opponent has to remove him before they can handle your other threats--Maul, Vader, Palpatine...
10% more then crits? Euhhh no. Crit are 150% base-216% mods....lead give you 60%
Free your mods? Euhhh no you'll need to stack up offence mods
Crits = offense * 216% = offense + offense *116%. If cc was 50% then = offense + offense * 58%.
Unless I'm mistaken, nihilus gives everyone the equivalent of 50% crit chance at 220% crit dmg.
Except offence and crit damage multiply by each other while offence and offence just add together. And everyone is getting at least some extra offence from mods already.
If the enemy is running stealthed or crit immune, or is using Zarriss or a Rex lead, Nihilus' offence for crit chance will be a good trade, but for the most part it will either lower damage output or not give enough of a boost to be worth sacrificing other leaders abilities for.
The protection to health trade is better, but will still have weaknesses such as vs. resistance, or Savage. Nihilus' lead will give some nice extra diversity to a Sith squad, but mostly I expect he will be running under someone else.
I don't think it's a complete loss because the damage is still good. Remember that SA and ST can both attack health directly and if you run Savage with the group he can still execute them (or whatever it's called) with his special even if their protection bar is full.
High speed Jyn makes vader go b4 he gets ability blocked by enemy...vader aoes...then your high speed boba executes nihlus easy since 3-4 debuffs will easily get you 25k+ execute...moreso if you use a tfp b4 jyn...
At least thats one way...im sure theres plently more
Apparently you're not aware that a modded Nihilus can have over 80k health and protection. lol
High speed Jyn makes vader go b4 he gets ability blocked by enemy...vader aoes...then your high speed boba executes nihlus easy since 3-4 debuffs will easily get you 25k+ execute...moreso if you use a tfp b4 jyn...
At least thats one way...im sure theres plently more
Apparently you're not aware that a modded Nihilus can have over 80k health and protection. lol
3*?
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
High speed Jyn makes vader go b4 he gets ability blocked by enemy...vader aoes...then your high speed boba executes nihlus easy since 3-4 debuffs will easily get you 25k+ execute...moreso if you use a tfp b4 jyn...
At least thats one way...im sure theres plently more
Apparently you're not aware that a modded Nihilus can have over 80k health and protection. lol
And a Nihilus with a few dots and debuffs on him can easily be hit for 70K by a max Vader's Culling Blade and a Boba Fett Execute can at least do half of that.
Nihilus is a really cool character and the Dev team did a great job on him, but I don't see him as this crazy OP character, good but not OP. I think he's going to be very reliant on Sith Assassin to be good though.
High speed Jyn makes vader go b4 he gets ability blocked by enemy...vader aoes...then your high speed boba executes nihlus easy since 3-4 debuffs will easily get you 25k+ execute...moreso if you use a tfp b4 jyn...
At least thats one way...im sure theres plently more
Apparently you're not aware that a modded Nihilus can have over 80k health and protection. lol
And a Nihilus with a few dots and debuffs on him can easily be hit for 70K by a max Vader's Culling Blade and a Boba Fett Execute can at least do half of that.
Nihilus is a really cool character and the Dev team did a great job on him, but I don't see him as this crazy OP character, good but not OP. I think he's going to be very reliant on Sith Assassin to be good though.
I wouldn't say "easily" hit for those. First, he'd have to not be stealthed under Zaul lead. Second, he'd need to have enough debuffs for those to be possible, and they have to be crits.
He won't be an easy kill. I don't think he'll be OP either but far from easily killed by a 25k execute as stated in the other post. He has the health of a tank plus the other bonuses under Maul, EP, or his own lead.
And a Nihilus with a few dots and debuffs on him can easily be hit for 70K by a max Vader's Culling Blade and a Boba Fett Execute can at least do half of that....
I wouldn't say "easily" hit for those. First, he'd have to not be stealthed under Zaul lead. Second, he'd need to have enough debuffs for those to be possible, and they have to be crits...
That's where Savage might come into play, relieving Nihilus of his debuffs.
High speed Jyn makes vader go b4 he gets ability blocked by enemy...vader aoes...then your high speed boba executes nihlus easy since 3-4 debuffs will easily get you 25k+ execute...moreso if you use a tfp b4 jyn...
At least thats one way...im sure theres plently more
Apparently you're not aware that a modded Nihilus can have over 80k health and protection. lol
And a Nihilus with a few dots and debuffs on him can easily be hit for 70K by a max Vader's Culling Blade and a Boba Fett Execute can at least do half of that.
Nihilus is a really cool character and the Dev team did a great job on him, but I don't see him as this crazy OP character, good but not OP. I think he's going to be very reliant on Sith Assassin to be good though.
I wouldn't say "easily" hit for those. First, he'd have to not be stealthed under Zaul lead. Second, he'd need to have enough debuffs for those to be possible, and they have to be crits.
He won't be an easy kill. I don't think he'll be OP either but far from easily killed by a 25k execute as stated in the other post. He has the health of a tank plus the other bonuses under Maul, EP, or his own lead.
It doesn't take that many dots to hit large CB's with Vader if you have his Crit Dmg up. No, 25K Execute definitely won't kill him but it'll take a good chunk out, Daze, Health Immune, Shock will all reduce his health steal. If DN starts appearing under Maul leads, which he probably will, that'll just force B2 and it's easy pickins' from there. A few top-10 Maul squads have already started using B2 to counter the stupid dodge meta that's back. LOL
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Well, even though you're already #1 in my shard I'm pretty sure this team would secure your top spot even more.
[/quote]
I know I am kind of annoying but at least u guys are able to see new characters and metas as they come out. I really like to push the envelope and it is difficult for such young shard to keep up with that. Like a bunch of people went bananas on rebel packs recently and spend a ton of money for meta that is already behind both empire and sith. I ran rouge one rebels since Jyn's first tournament up to beginning of January when figured out empire is far superior. Now working on sith team should be ready soon, possibly even tonight if zeta challenge surprises me with 2 zetas lol.
Anyway take care my shardmate and may the force be with u.
Nihilus is far from garbage. You aren't using him for his damage--though he can do that if ignored--you're using him for his leader ability. You're trading potential crits for regular hits that do 10% more damage than crits. No crits means you free up those mod slots for other effects--potency for Sith's many debuffs, offense to further increase that damage, health or protection.
He also has the same soft taunt Rey had back in the day--you could attack anyone you want, but if you leave Nihilus alone he's going to wreck you junk. This means your opponent has to remove him before they can handle your other threats--Maul, Vader, Palpatine...
10% more then crits? Euhhh no. Crit are 150% base-216% mods....lead give you 60%
Free your mods? Euhhh no you'll need to stack up offence mods
Crits = offense * 216% = offense + offense *116%. If cc was 50% then = offense + offense * 58%.
Unless I'm mistaken, nihilus gives everyone the equivalent of 50% crit chance at 220% crit dmg.
Thats nice, Maul has like an 80% crit chance and 216% crit damage. Sid lands 2 less DoTs without crits. His leader ability isn't going to be the one you need with a sith squad, but it is going to be useful. It's certainly not his best function imo that would be Drain Force.
Replies
Ummm good night to anyone facing that team!
He also has the same soft taunt Rey had back in the day--you could attack anyone you want, but if you leave Nihilus alone he's going to wreck you junk. This means your opponent has to remove him before they can handle your other threats--Maul, Vader, Palpatine...
10% more then crits? Euhhh no. Crit are 150% base-216% mods....lead give you 60%
Free your mods? Euhhh no you'll need to stack up offence mods
Crits = offense * 216% = offense + offense *116%. If cc was 50% then = offense + offense * 58%.
Unless I'm mistaken, nihilus gives everyone the equivalent of 50% crit chance at 220% crit dmg.
This will be interesting to see. That will make expose huge.
This isn't meant to be crappy, just curious where you're getting your formula from? I would think it would just be attack power * 1.6, no? If you look at the damage from a Vader lead with a 50% gain, that's a nice bump but you'd still rather Vader crit on his culling blade than not crit, huge difference in damage. I don't think the advantage of his lead is that you get more damage, I think the advantage is that you avoid crit buffs given by characters like Maul lead, Barris zeta, and General Kenobi, not to mention avoiding Rex's leader ability. So you can still do modest damage without the other "annoyances."
I think Nihilus with SA both at 7-star will be strong but I don't think it's an OP combination anybody has to worry about. Honestly I'm more concerned about Nihilus under a Maul lead when you Baze tanking here and there and Nihilus going in-and-out-of stealth and you can't even hit him because of the slot machine factor of dodge. If Maul with DN becomes meta, B2's value just grow 100-fold.
Except offence and crit damage multiply by each other while offence and offence just add together. And everyone is getting at least some extra offence from mods already.
If the enemy is running stealthed or crit immune, or is using Zarriss or a Rex lead, Nihilus' offence for crit chance will be a good trade, but for the most part it will either lower damage output or not give enough of a boost to be worth sacrificing other leaders abilities for.
The protection to health trade is better, but will still have weaknesses such as vs. resistance, or Savage. Nihilus' lead will give some nice extra diversity to a Sith squad, but mostly I expect he will be running under someone else.
Just averages... From stated stats. Crit dmg averaged over chances to hit compared to constant offense up.
I don't think it's a complete loss because the damage is still good. Remember that SA and ST can both attack health directly and if you run Savage with the group he can still execute them (or whatever it's called) with his special even if their protection bar is full.
We will see when final event launches.
If decently priced I will 7* play around with him and report back to forums
Apparently you're not aware that a modded Nihilus can have over 80k health and protection. lol
3*?
And a Nihilus with a few dots and debuffs on him can easily be hit for 70K by a max Vader's Culling Blade and a Boba Fett Execute can at least do half of that.
Nihilus is a really cool character and the Dev team did a great job on him, but I don't see him as this crazy OP character, good but not OP. I think he's going to be very reliant on Sith Assassin to be good though.
I wouldn't say "easily" hit for those. First, he'd have to not be stealthed under Zaul lead. Second, he'd need to have enough debuffs for those to be possible, and they have to be crits.
He won't be an easy kill. I don't think he'll be OP either but far from easily killed by a 25k execute as stated in the other post. He has the health of a tank plus the other bonuses under Maul, EP, or his own lead.
It doesn't take that many dots to hit large CB's with Vader if you have his Crit Dmg up. No, 25K Execute definitely won't kill him but it'll take a good chunk out, Daze, Health Immune, Shock will all reduce his health steal. If DN starts appearing under Maul leads, which he probably will, that'll just force B2 and it's easy pickins' from there. A few top-10 Maul squads have already started using B2 to counter the stupid dodge meta that's back. LOL
Well, even though you're already #1 in my shard I'm pretty sure this team would secure your top spot even more.
[/quote]
I know I am kind of annoying but at least u guys are able to see new characters and metas as they come out. I really like to push the envelope and it is difficult for such young shard to keep up with that. Like a bunch of people went bananas on rebel packs recently and spend a ton of money for meta that is already behind both empire and sith. I ran rouge one rebels since Jyn's first tournament up to beginning of January when figured out empire is far superior. Now working on sith team should be ready soon, possibly even tonight if zeta challenge surprises me with 2 zetas lol.
Anyway take care my shardmate and may the force be with u.
Thats nice, Maul has like an 80% crit chance and 216% crit damage. Sid lands 2 less DoTs without crits. His leader ability isn't going to be the one you need with a sith squad, but it is going to be useful. It's certainly not his best function imo that would be Drain Force.