Slow Dancing with Poe Follow Up
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/8772/slow-dancing-with-poe-and-his-dps-minions-countering-poe-at-143-speed/p1
Just to follow up on the thread here, just wanted to confirm Old Ben can be removed and you still get a 60%+ win rate just using a 4th tanky aoe toon. In this case I built Snowtrooper for that purpose.
Let's look at this guys skills and stats.
You'll notice over 14k health...so he meets the tanky criteria to survive a shot + assist from anyone not named FOTP.
He's STR drives his hitting power. I still have one STR gear left to go on him. Right now, the guy is my strongest AOE hitter in this setup and with offense up and Sid lead he's critting for almost 5,700. You don't have to be good at the maths to know that's some legit punching power.
He looks slow based in speed, but he actually gets pretty fast once the match starts. His unique is to gain a % of meter on any death. One time I had 2 allies die and he actually took his turn before Poggle. Poggle is one of the faster toons.
Now, for f2p version...HK47 would be a great 4th aoe. I'm in the process of finalizing him to 7* and will post confirmed results later with him as the 4th. Just looking at damage output though vs health of enemy, I have no doubt he'd get the job done. I'll post battle pics in a separate post.
In addition to AOE, we are working on a few other team themes that gave potential to beat Poe teams without using Poe at a >50% rate. Hopefully I'll have more options to share in the next 7-10 days.
Just to follow up on the thread here, just wanted to confirm Old Ben can be removed and you still get a 60%+ win rate just using a 4th tanky aoe toon. In this case I built Snowtrooper for that purpose.
Let's look at this guys skills and stats.
You'll notice over 14k health...so he meets the tanky criteria to survive a shot + assist from anyone not named FOTP.
He's STR drives his hitting power. I still have one STR gear left to go on him. Right now, the guy is my strongest AOE hitter in this setup and with offense up and Sid lead he's critting for almost 5,700. You don't have to be good at the maths to know that's some legit punching power.
He looks slow based in speed, but he actually gets pretty fast once the match starts. His unique is to gain a % of meter on any death. One time I had 2 allies die and he actually took his turn before Poggle. Poggle is one of the faster toons.
Now, for f2p version...HK47 would be a great 4th aoe. I'm in the process of finalizing him to 7* and will post confirmed results later with him as the 4th. Just looking at damage output though vs health of enemy, I have no doubt he'd get the job done. I'll post battle pics in a separate post.
In addition to AOE, we are working on a few other team themes that gave potential to beat Poe teams without using Poe at a >50% rate. Hopefully I'll have more options to share in the next 7-10 days.
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In most cases, in order to win, I need at least 3 AOE attacks to win - at least 2 of those need to be offense up. I can win with 4 AOE attacks no offense up on any. The win rate starts to get very low though if I can only get 2 AOEs off - even if both offense up - or I get in 3 AOEs, but none of them are offense up. 3 AOEs with no offense up I have won before, but it's than more reliant on hitting crits with those AOEs.
If crits go right - I have wiped the entire screen before the start of round 2. That's not common though as usually Phasma or Poe are still standing.
I think he uses Sid
@JohnnySteelAlpha Great job at that, I also thought Snowtrooper could be good but didn't have the resources nor the confidence in him to work, he might make a fine addition to what we run as well due to his turn-meter gain.
Now my question is, judging from your screen as well, is your Sid pretty much always the target against turn7 teams? Ours is pretty much the whole time, if that is what you're experiencing as well, it makes another pathway to open via manipulation of AI.
I had left Barriss behind when she fell out of meta - so I'm in the process now of getting her to more "max" level to combat these teams, but yes I've tested her as a quick run-through and that's absolutely an option. The match definitely goes in to round 2 though. You nailed it on her leader - the extra health buff is perfect. I think she's going to be really solid option at end game as health scales up her leader is a % - so the amount will increase as the health total goes up. Then not to mention her heal / equalization for the wounded. That's a fantastic call on Barriss. She will definitely give you options. She's on my to do list to explore as a leader in depth vs. these teams. I'm confident she will provide some combinations.
Once you face this team enough, it gets easier to visualize options. It becomes in large part about just figuring out how to survive round 1 with all or most of your team in place.
Sid was the lead - he got his hit off (you can see the DoTs on the enemy). Boba would be another solid option as leader as he boosts crit damage. He's also tankier than Sid and can revive. That's another aspect there that can really screw up this high DPS build - revives - that's absolutely another theme that could be taken as an approach here. Drawing fire, getting killed, then reviving would be a big blow to this high damage / modest health squad. Once you can hit them back they will fall fairly quick. HK47 and Boba as decently tanky heroes with high revive ability and AOE are definitely options.
I have Barriss at 5* now and have actually toyed with going back to a high health / Jedi healer team with QJG to see how it fares. But my guess is the DPS is still too much.
I wonder if single target tsnkier guys could do the trick. I mean people like Fives (Love him, even if he's not well adapted to current meta). Also nightsister initiate or Savage. Those 3 have 20k HP. With Barris lead they go for 22k. Barris heal works from the healed health as well (besides equalization).
Maybe not yet. But at skill level 8, fives shoots twice vs slowed toons, and savsge gets 30% more damage at lvl 8
I've been looking at that - not recording numbers though so it's anecdotal, which can be misleading as we trick ourselves - but I'm seeing it be pretty random. I do tend to notice that Sid dies more often because he's so low health and can't take a hit very well. If Poe lands expose on him he's pretty much toast in one hit. I'll actually start recording AI hits and order going forward - maybe you guys do the same and we could pool numbers and get a decent sample size.
Just from observing, the only theme that I have seen so far is that the AI seems to know not to try to attack and kill Old Ben first. I was over 20 battles or so testing with him and only twice did they FF / kill him early on. Often they didn't try to attack him at all. That to me looks like a potential way to manipulate the AI - Old Ben likely due to his 'if you strike me down' essentially has a heavy evade / stealth going on. That's anecdotal also though, so could be just RNG streak.
High health + single target focus fire orientated might be a viable option against Poe+glass canons afterall.
Yet that kind of composition hugely deviates from current "FOTM" farming options which will take some time before someone can test it and even more time before many can assemble such a group.
What I have in mind are nightsister initiate/Savage/Finn/Kylo/CT-5
It's possible single target - but you'd need someone to dispel Poe or else you will be tied up with him too long in round 1 and not killing the big damage dealers....and then that team will get on you again with fire in round 2. I don't think anything can take that much damage. You'd have to disable them with damage down (Plo Koon or Old Ben for example) for that to work if you didn't dispel. Maybe that's where Mace W could help? Seriously. He could dispel and your other single damage tanks could start to wear them down. I still think you might need a damage down on all to make that work. It's worth playing with I agree if you have dispel / damage down options to swap in and out as well.
I'm actually not quite ready to say nerf or not....but I'm leaning more toward nerf than before even after countering it because I'm fearful that it will be an endless parade of countering various versions of Poe builds where essentially the game pivots around him in various forms on and on. I don't know that for sure though - just speculating. I'd like to see where we are in a month or so.
Defense it will do ok, but not great vs. smart players that have top toons. Reason is that the human will focus fire better. Now, RNG can go wrong and a human could still lose - no doubt - but the human with that team above I faced should counter this at a pretty good rate.
I had good succes with phasma kylo sid Lumi and Ct all 7 star. But you need to have luck kn their crits. Ct is better in your team than trooper. Those extra Hp plus counter and speed down can be the difference.
And if you need 4th tanky Aoe Look no further than 5 star Vader. Im sure at 7 stars he could be the key.
Maybe QGJ can be tested instead of poggle
As far as I understood he never claimed his team would win 100% or be superior to any Poe team.
It is just an alternative that has a quite high winrate against Poe teams without using Poe himself. Still awesome
This! Thank you!
Be able to OS 3 of my char 1st turn when they are all full gear/star/lvl... I think it's the real problem
Excuse my bad english
Hopefully my dreams never include SWGoH - that means my life has gone to a bad place
Losing Poggle does make it tougher, but I have won matches without him. The win rate definitely goes down - but that's accounted for in my testing and saying 60% or so win rate with Phasma as a leader (the win rate gets higher if you're talking about less optimal versions of the build). I've run against these Poe / GS / Jinn / FOTP teams with these tank / AOE teams for close to 40 battles now over the past week+ or so. I've seen the highs / lows of RNG and different scenarios. Losing Poggle just puts more pressure on the AOE to hit crits from Sid's bonus, but I have won matches without him. Keep in mind too...Kylo after his aoe has counter attack, so if the AI has focused fire on Poggle, Kylo will be there to take some punishment and hit back a few counters; his countering is definitely a factor in the match. Phasma also gives me meter control, so I can get on top of these teams in round 2 even if they are not totally dead or mostly dead in round 1. Ideally though, Poggle stays alive to get his offense up special off.
Man do I wish Vader could be 7* (assuming no cheats
5s I can see being a nice 5th option here as well - I agree. Depends on the configuration. His countering and speed down as you note is very high utility. It fits with the AOE well also because he can already start to soften them up.
I think once people start building the beefier toons there will be even more counters that pop out.
I have my Snowtrooper 7 starred and working towards gear 6 currently. He(Carl) has become quite the celebrity on the GoH reddit.
Great job Johnny! I think your efforts are really good for the game. I've been trying to solve the Poe problem as well, and my approach is quite different from yours. Once I have something definitive I will share it too.
Ps snowtrooper isn't farmable is he?
It's great to see some good counters against the 'Poe problem' (AOE, Anakin, ST Han, etc.) coming out lately and I would be keen to see what you will share with the community.
However, this concerted effort somewhat shows that Poe perhaps requires some tweak, along with the one-shot kills as I cannot recall seeing this level of effort for just one hero (and no, countering Poe with a Poe is not a true solution).
As for the Snowtrooper, nope, he is not farmable, though his shards can be seen quite regularly in the Shipments.
We haven't discussed how this tanky AOE team does against counterattack, or stun heavy, or triple healer, or debuff teams, or stealth teams. We don't check if it can beat Phasma, or sid, or kylo or poggle. Or coruscant cop, for that matter
Because.... we don't care. Only thing that matter is to beat Poe.
Carl -