Since they are going to nerf Dooku and Barriss anyway, we can give ideas on what we think is fair

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SeroZero
154 posts Member
edited December 2015
Now we all know the nerf hammer is coming since EA_Jesse brought it up in [Bugs and Issues]
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While we can't stop it from coming, here's what I think would be fair to those suffering from their perceived 'OPness' and those who bought/farmed them.

Count Dooku
Main Concern
  • Gets too many turns
  • Counter-attacks twice against 1 person, which includes his buffs/debuffs
  • Basically Dooku is one hero with too many things.

Suggested Fix
  1. Remove double attack for counters (100% counter +15% dmg boost + stun/ability block on jedi on counter is amazing enough)
  2. Remove 25% chance to gain 35% turn meter on counters (This is what results in dooku getting so many turns, which is pretty crazy, not only do you suffer dmg for hitting him, you fill up his turn meter too)

That's all. This way, Dooku still has the same offense capabilities + amazing speed, and still does 100% counters with extra dmg. He doesn't really need to have the double attack on counters or turn meter gain. People would still reconsider attacking Dooku as the counter with crits still hurt a bunch. Additionally, Jedi users will reconsider a step further for fear of ability/stun during counters as well.

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Barriss Offee
Main Concern
  • Heals go through [Healing Immunity] (let's not debate how equalizing hp should be categorize as heal or not)

That's all! Her tankiness can be written off since she traded her dmg for it. Her leader skill is decent, but definitely not OP (Here's whats OP, Darth Sid leader skill used to give 40% crit chance and 50% crit dmg, go figure)

Suggested Fix
  1. Remove all possible forms of HP replenishment from units affected by [Healing Immunity]. Barriss Offee should not be able to equalize HP of units under the debuff.

This way Barriss remains as status quo, a great tank/healer/leader. Also, [Healing Immunity] is perfectly, a healing immunity, no way to heal at all once debuffed with it. Afterall, healing immunity now already blocks vampirism effects of Talia/Sid as well as heal over time of Lumi.

This opens up opportunities for others to focus down a hero first by debuffing [Healing Immunity], without worrying about Barriss equalizing/healing that person up.

How do you get [Healing Immunity] heroes? Simple, Darth Sid and IG-88, both available in Arena shipments have 100% and 45% chance of doing so in basic attacks, both debuff only lasting 1 TURN, and can be blocked by resistance/tenacity values. So... to focus down a hero that has Barriss supporting them, you need to forgo powerful AoE attacks of either hero, and pray for the debuff to occur. There is a price to pay in all strategies, work with what you have, and what you are facing against.

Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances - Sun Tzu Art of War

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Replies

  • I would prefer they nerfed healing in general, or give more characters healing debuff. There needs to be more viable options for buffs/debuffs like evasion and synergies.

    Sids debuff lasts longer then 1 turn. Feels like about 3. I never use his aoe......ever.
  • Skye
    795 posts Member
    People who complain about Barrass and Douku probably haven't use Cad Bane. Stun = Dead Douku, Dead Barrass. Indeed dead anyone! Even Sidous... People who complain about Barris and Douku before Sidious obviously haven't faced him!

    So what are you gonna do when you get him, nerf him too?

    The best option is to create characters that specficially counter certain counters, Barriss has enough Anti Jedi counters to neuter her. Just people don't use them for whatever reason. I've personally never had an issue with Barriss. YOu don't even need Cad Bane to neuter her, Douku, HK-47 to name a few can easily neuter her to kingdom come...

    Now Douku is a different cup of tea... There aren't really any counter-Sith characters out there, until there are he is going to remain one that is complained alot about. Along with Sidious... In a way I'm surprised that Anakin wasn't made with anti sith abilties, but he is a more generic ability lock which is probably better.

    For me direct nerfs isn't the way to go. The way to go is to create more characters that specifically counter specific groups... like we already have with Jawa's countering Droids, many characters countering Jedi... We just don't have any counter Sith characetrs yet!
    Former crazy person of the guild "Shard Awakens"... *quit game 13th July 2016*

    Game used to be fun when it wasn't a grind... if I wanted a grind I would have went and played old school Everquest or some Korean MMO!
  • Nerffing Barriss will lead to a series of future nerf requests. Look at her abilities, her leaders are ok at early stage when you dont see big guns yet. When more big guns come in, she and the rest of the team will come down quickly. Her damage is meh at best, half that of a mediocre char. She s so hard to get. After nerfing her I suspect a series of request like Sid is too op, I cant even heal. Maul is too op, he wiped my team. Lando crit too much, I want Barriss back or nerf all of them. Yeah, that s how it goes I guess. Dooku was/is just bugged I think. I dont use him anymore, so squishy so I dont know.
  • Slushie
    425 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    @Trilbo wrote: »
    I would prefer they nerfed healing in general, or give more characters healing debuff. There needs to be more viable options for buffs/debuffs like evasion and synergies.

    Sids debuff lasts longer then 1 turn. Feels like about 3. I never use his aoe......ever.

    You're right. Sid's Deathstroke attack at level 5 keeps the healing debuff on for 3 turns.

    His AoE used to be BEAST in beta. Now it's like a scratch in comparison.
  • Slushie
    425 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    @SeroZero

    I'm copy pasting a post I made in another thread regarding Barriss.

    Most people claim that Barriss still being able to "heal" through a healing immunity debuff is OP. But why?

    Most people say Sid/Anakin/IG-88 and their heal immunity are meant to be the counter to Barriss? Well no, they're the counter for every other healer currently in the game.

    Right now, there is only 6 main healing characters in the game (Barriss, Consular, Luminara, Talia, Elder Ewok, Old Daka). 7 if you want to count Ahsoka but her heal isn't exactly reliable since it only triggers on a crit.

    Healing immunity debuff counters every single one of these healers (including all the various self heals from other characters like Chewie, Sidious, Aayla, etc.) except Barriss Offee.

    Barriss Offee is the only counter to Heal Immunity right now, and her heal is the only thing she has to bring to the table because her damage is almost non existent. But she's not completely exempt from the debuff either. The only part of her heal ability that goes through the healing immunity is the "health equalisation" part of her skill.

    Now, I don't actually use Barriss in any of my teams (unless I get desperate for healers in Galactic Wars) because I know she's only half as useful as some of the other characters I already have unlocked, but if you take away the only purpose she has to be in a team, then why even have her in the game?

    Edit: But to add to your discussion, I'm fine if they want to reduce the AMOUNT of health that can be "equalised", because currently the health equalise + additional 25% heal is a lot. But they should keep the health equalisation exempt from the heal immunity debuff.
  • Slushie wrote: »
    @SeroZero

    I'm copy pasting a post I made in another thread regarding Barriss.

    Most people claim that Barriss still being able to "heal" through a healing immunity debuff is OP. But why?

    Most people say Sid/Anakin/IG-88 and their heal immunity are meant to be the counter to Barriss? Well no, they're the counter for every other healer currently in the game.

    Right now, there is only 6 main healing characters in the game (Barriss, Consular, Luminara, Talia, Elder Ewok, Old Daka). 7 if you want to count Ahsoka but her heal isn't exactly reliable since it only triggers on a crit.

    Healing immunity debuff counters every single one of these healers (including all the various self heals from other characters like Chewie, Sidious, Aayla, etc.) except Barriss Offee.

    Barriss Offee is the only counter to Heal Immunity right now, and her heal is the only thing she has to bring to the table because her damage is almost non existent. But she's not completely exempt from the debuff either. The only part of her heal ability that goes through the healing immunity is the "health equalisation" part of her skill.

    Now, I don't actually use Barriss in any of my teams (unless I get desperate for healers in Galactic Wars) because I know she's only half as useful as some of the other characters I already have unlocked, but if you take away the only purpose she has to be in a team, then why even have her in the game?

    Edit: But to add to your discussion, I'm fine if they want to reduce the AMOUNT of health that can be "equalised", because currently the health equalise + additional 25% heal is a lot. But they should keep the health equalisation exempt from the heal immunity debuff.

    Agreed. There are broader changes in the game that need to be made which are far more important. Barriss is annoying...but can be played around.

    What about Daka's revive. You can't say characters should be revive immune because you offed them. Its her unique ability and has already been considered by the devs in a much better context then we will ever have (i hope!).
  • Don't act so crass. There are counters to healing debuff. One of the more ingenious methods was a dual taunt to rotate targets.

    You can't have one defense to rule them all. That's why the Dooku Barris combo is getting a much needed nerf.

  • The Dooku Barriss combo will be a joke when you double attacks crit down Dooku with just a char though.
  • @NachoFoot wrote: »
    Don't act so crass. There are counters to healing debuff. One of the more ingenious methods was a dual taunt to rotate targets.

    You can't have one defense to rule them all. That's why the Dooku Barris combo is getting a much needed nerf.

    You continue your unbroken record of saying things that make no sense to me at all.

    I'm not talking about the Barriss/Dooku combo here, I'm talking about one aspect of Barriss' heal ability.

    Also, please share this "dual taunt" set up you speak of to counter healing immunity. While you're at it, let us know what the other counters you have for healing immunity as well. Since you know, according to you there's so many of them already.



  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    Strongly disagree with your Barriss fix. That is her ONLY real special ability, she doesn't even have a second active ability like most characters. And removing it is a slap in the face to people who spent good money on this game.
    Agree with neutering Dooku a bit, especially the double-counters which are ridiculous.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • Well, I have her and would hate to see her get nerfed. I'm currently level 37 with one healer. I started with three and as I progressed in PVP those extra healers didn't add much to my team.
  • It's great people are speaking up about their views on this topic. While I only gave my own version of what I deem fair, some might disagree or agree. It doesn't matter, the purpose is to let them know of thoughts of this matter.
    Qeltar wrote: »
    Strongly disagree with your Barriss fix. That is her ONLY real special ability, she doesn't even have a second active ability like most characters. And removing it is a slap in the face to people who spent good money on this game.
    Agree with neutering Dooku a bit, especially the double-counters which are ridiculous.
    Reddplague wrote: »
    Well, I have her and would hate to see her get nerfed. I'm currently level 37 with one healer. I started with three and as I progressed in PVP those extra healers didn't add much to my team.

    So what do you guys think would be the best balancing change to Barriss? We all know it's an issue that dev has taken notice of it. Share some ideas of what you think would be a fair change that doesn't destroy her but yet give those who think she needs a fix a satisfactory answer.

    I personally think there's nothing wrong at all with either characters. In fact, I wish everyone uses Barriss in my arena rankings, life is much easier with her around once you get use to it. But the constant cries of others have alarmed the devs, and they need to answer.
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    Barriss is already "balanced" by virtue of being nearly impossible to star up without spending a boatload of money.
    If I were to do anything to her, I'd reduce her own health somewhat. She should have a lot of HP, fine, but her HP bar is bloated beyond belief, and that's part of why her HP equalization is so powerful. I'd drop it by 20%. Otherwise I wouldn't touch her.
    She's a pain if you are unlucky but if you are careful you can manage her. I try to "tempt" her into using her heal early on a low-HP character, and then she's basically ignorable for the rest of the match.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • I think that they are fine as they are. Once you know more about any character you can work out a way around them. It might take a little time developing said strategies but it will make you a better player all around.

    I'm still stumped on how to beat boss Chewbacca in 5 a hard dark side. But I will figure something out. He just gets too many turns lol
  • Obviously the only real fix is to give Jawa a counterstrike that only counters counterstrikes with a 150% damage increase so if anyone dares to use a counter ability they will hastily be removed out of the match via death Jawa style. But thats not enough. The Jawa should also have a skill that if anyone dares to try to heal with anyone other than Talia or Consular that it triggers a counterstrike with a 200% damage increase that instantly attacks the said healer. It also should have a 94.7% to trigger a second attack on whoever recieved said heal. To completely balance the skill it should have a 50% chance to attack a third target that said healer thought about healing, but didn't.

    To make it fair for everyone all shards in cantina should be changed to Jawa. All hard shards should be changed to Jawa. All token characters should be changed to Jawa. All gear drops should be able to be used by Jawa. If you farm Jawa shards or gear it costs no energy. And finally you should be able to have multiple Jawas in a team to stay true to Star Wars Lore as Jawas ran in packs.

    If the developers take my advice I truly believe it will end any and all balance issues currently as well as in the future. /end thread
  • Vampire_X
    1435 posts Moderator
    edited December 2015
    If they nerf/change dooku or barris from advertised stats then you will be able to file a refund for not working as intended with apple and get your money back if under 90days from purchase

    Not sure about Google play but to the people who did not purchase screaming for nerf be aware we will get our money back and a warning to cg/ea that his falls under bait and switch for mobile app so be very careful how you proceed here with a a new game (hoda has felt this the last 3 weeks)

    The game is never going to be f2p balanced versus spenders so all this nerf non sense is more about people who paid vs those who did not because later in the game old Ben and darth Sid will be owning dooku and bariss all the day

    But if they want to refund me 55bucks I am Down for that , helps buy more chromium packs

    Just heads up to all Bought the intro pack purchase
    Wicked Sith Queen with the Pink Saber
  • I agree with the fact that CG shouldn't nerf characters but instead should release new characters to counter. People spent 50 USD to buy Barriss... The worst thing with nerfing is that you cannot expect customers to keep spending on gems to buy characers if there is a chance that they don't end with what was advertised. I play another CG game, HODA and they did fine with a "no nerf" policy. They did recently nerf a new character that was game breaking for a whole major faction but compensated generously all people who purchased the pact.

    Additionally, as other players already mentionned, Doku and Barriss are far from being that OP later. If you find Barriss OP, what about Old Ben who will almost ensure you a win in defense? What about IG86 teamed attack with another droid, one shoting any dps character?
    Member of Team Instinct
  • Time
    293 posts Member
    Dooku really just needs a very minor tweek as he really just seems op early on when you dont have a lot of chars available. My suggestion would be that he can only counter once or twice per turn, and maybe a slight nerf to his speed anything else is overboard. The real problem imo is he is kinda antifun to play against with his speed being so high he goes, can stun and attack 4 times in a row not to mention his leader ability is so amazing (why does no one mention this?). Really i dont have too much of a problem with him as i just focus and stun him and since ai is so bad bariss doesnt heal him that often. Bariss damage is so bad only problem i have with her is sometimes i timeout vs her+tank/evade teams. Not sure ive ever lost(not timed out) a fight and thought i lost because of her.
    Once these heros are nerfed the crying will just move on to the next batch of "op" hero's that are the flavor of the month. The reality is that the game needs to address bugs in the game before dealing with balancing issues. Imo a better solution to nerfing dooku is to add anti sith abilities as there are for jedi droids etc. If there were some abilities with +damage or stun % people would be laughing at bow easy it is to kill dooku etc.
  • I don't understand, I've really had no problems with dooku. It's simple dont touch him unless he's the last one standing, and if he somehow gets stunned, for example by old Daka you get some cheap shots in. You pretty much let him do his own thing while you neutralize the other members of his party. Now I agree his multi strike abilities are a bit excessive.

    Barriss, healing pass a healing debuff is not cool and shouldn't happen, point blank period. Other than that she's fine and easily handled especially with a dooku ^.^

    I would like to see dooku's multi strike toned down, but maybe a slight buff to his health pool. He could get away with his low hp because people are scared of him but if they take that fear away he'll be exposed. And Barriss, heals are fine but she has more health than the actual tanks in the game, and the fact she heals with healing debuff.
    467-325-146
    Pretty good collection of characters so far and GROWING
  • The only thing that bothers me about Dooku is the auto-counter-everytime!. make it trigger less often or make it weaker. That said, i don't mind facing Dooku because like others have said, you just leave him alone until the end and hope you have a healer left to cover all the countering. I haven't faced Barris much, maybe she needs an increased cooldown on her ability?
  • I love the conversations going on here! Talking about strategies on how to counter things, different team setups, it's great :)

    Now, I do want to say that my post before was just stating that we are aware of what you all are talking about, it doesn't mean anything changing! It was more of a post showing that we are listening to your feedback.

    Community Manager for Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes | Follow me on Twitter - Darokaz
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    Why are people even talking about nerfing Barriss or Dooku when Old Ben is pretty much everything in one package? The guy can ability block and offense down your entire team, has a ton of health, and even when you kill him he makes the rest of the team a powerhouse.
    And ironically, Dooku is actually one of the few (TEMPORARY) counters to Old Ben.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • I think the biggest problem with barris is how much hp she has. Most other healers you can blow all your offensive cooldowns to take them out early, while doing that with barris would barely scratch her. Combine that with the hardest hitting heal in the game and most teams that combo barris + chewie are going to make you waste a lot of damage that she'll just heal off the tank. Combining tank + healer is just a really strong combo.

    For Dooku removing his +turn meter would fix him imo. His counter is annoying but if it was only hitting you 1-2 times instead of 2-4 it wouldn't be nearly as rage inducing.
  • Skye
    795 posts Member
    The only thing that bothers me about Dooku is the auto-counter-everytime!. make it trigger less often or make it weaker. That said, i don't mind facing Dooku because like others have said, you just leave him alone until the end and hope you have a healer left to cover all the countering. I haven't faced Barris much, maybe she needs an increased cooldown on her ability?

    Barris you can just stun her or do an ability lock on her, which pretty much neuters her good and proper. Characters like Cad Bane and Luminara work wonders for this purpose, the latter being quite easily farmable... The thing is as people's rosters expand and people start using more different characters and learn their abilities, they will complain a lot less...

    I only recently got Luminara after doing the galactic war full runs twice over the past two days. And she is amazingly good against healers, Douku and even Sidious.
    Former crazy person of the guild "Shard Awakens"... *quit game 13th July 2016*

    Game used to be fun when it wasn't a grind... if I wanted a grind I would have went and played old school Everquest or some Korean MMO!
  • Lumi my baby <3 almost finish getting her 4* after having her for two days now.
    467-325-146
    Pretty good collection of characters so far and GROWING
  • EA_Jesse wrote: »
    I love the conversations going on here! Talking about strategies on how to counter things, different team setups, it's great :)

    Now, I do want to say that my post before was just stating that we are aware of what you all are talking about, it doesn't mean anything changing! It was more of a post showing that we are listening to your feedback.

    Why thank you Jesse, for showing that CG is actually paying close attention to feedback around here. It's surprising to know though, that they might actually be no changes to the 2 above mentioned heroes, well we can only say our piece, it's entirely up to you guys to have a better picture (since you know when you are gonna release Yoda and General Grievous to destroy Dooku and Barriss respectively right? right? Hahaha)

    That said, looks like we can continue farming our Barriss and Dooku shards. You never know, they might buff them instead.

    200.gif
  • My Dooku will be 5* soon. Talk about a menace!
  • Slushie wrote: »
    @NachoFoot wrote: »
    Don't act so crass. There are counters to healing debuff. One of the more ingenious methods was a dual taunt to rotate targets.

    You can't have one defense to rule them all. That's why the Dooku Barris combo is getting a much needed nerf.

    You continue your unbroken record of saying things that make no sense to me at all.

    I'm not talking about the Barriss/Dooku combo here, I'm talking about one aspect of Barriss' heal ability.

    Also, please share this "dual taunt" set up you speak of to counter healing immunity. While you're at it, let us know what the other counters you have for healing immunity as well. Since you know, according to you there's so many of them already.

    Your personal attacks have no meaning like your posts. You really want someone to tell you how to play the game?

    Yes, that "one" aspect is too overpowered. You want Barris to heal through immunity. What the hell are you gonna do with Sid's special since it's useless?

    Barris can already mass heal everyone back to full. No other healer can do that. She doesn't hit hard but has massive health to compensate. You know this already if you would've read the OP's post...
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    Barriss equalizes through immunity. It is not a group heal.
    This is, again, her ONLY major abiity. And they charged $50 for her. She is not a problem and should not be nerfed.
    If you can't deal with Barriss then you need more practice with the game. She isn't even remotely the most troublesome character out there. Just wait until you run into a team with Old Ben on it, who kills you even when he's dead.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • ChaseKillz
    134 posts Member
    edited December 2015
    IMG35bihi0.jpg

    Why is this cool? Granted I still won. But that besides the point what's the reason for even having Sid if healing is still happening on his watch? Like why give that dooku a chance to kill my lumi?(she probably still would have died if Barr is didn't resist ability block) This is a galactic war match and I don't need stuff dying after facing a level 51 team and had to do a 4 heal team. And no I have to wait till tomorrow to 4* my lumi
    467-325-146
    Pretty good collection of characters so far and GROWING
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